Nut Nut's Attempt At A Book About Politics & Society

I want to encourage people to review this video about the great Permian Extinction of 250 million years ago.

It shares a lot of themes with what is happening on Earth now as a result of our abruptly changing the Earth's chemical composition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZsz39RE...

Release of CO2 ==> leading to stoppage of ocean circulation & warming ==> Ocean anoxia ==> Release of methane hydrates from warmed ocean ==> apocalyptic warming

Our ancestry was saved by small 4 legged creatures that had learned to survive by burrowing into the Earth and surviving below the surface.

I do not "long for indentured servants".

I do agree that society should take good care of baby makers which is why i *do not oppose* taxpayers subsidized maternity leave *for decent people* (=not low income immigrants or natives) and taxpayers subsidized schools (not public schools, voucher).

I also do not oppose subsidies for pre k12 childcare and so on (again to good people, those you want to have children, middle, upper-middle class people: poor people need not apply and we do NOT want them to multiply)

the life expectancy gap can be different in different countries but i agree that 7 was more of an upper limit in some places (like russia), i jusst rechecked and the median by country is lower so we can go with 4-5 for Italy, the USA and so on.

I meant that a belief in the Bible could be the driving cause in some of these instances as well. You seem to be saying that those views on homosexuality are just sort of baked into society and the Bible basically clothed and justified them as coming from God?

So .... you wrote the following a few days ago.

"Inequality is essential for my life as a feature not a bug. I need people willing to clean my house for 10 eur/hour, dry clean my clothes cheaply enough and everything else. So servants , a driver (or being able to use a taxi every time with a complete disregard for the costs, which is the same)"

Where is the "indentured" which removes freedom? it's not the same if they are free to choose or if they are violently obligated to do my bidding, do you understand the difference?

do you even know what an indenture is?

You crack me up Lucifer.

You claim you want to be a noble. You don't claim to want to do any work to earn your nobility. And you complain about the propriety of women's pensions.

You are a poster child for irony.

I have some respect for the bible but don’t take it too seriously. I read the tanakh before I read the bible. I think the homophobic stuff towards the beginning of the bible hints at a larger truth about homophobia being huge before the bible was written. I think that people would be extra cruel to homosexuals without the bibles influence and find other ways to justify it. I do think people who are looking to qualify their hatred of people who are not perfectly military style lockstep with specific gender norms often turn to the bible. A much bigger problem than the bible is the patriarchy. And as more tolerant people would note Jesus doesnt say anything about it. Yes I think society has uneccesary gender norms baked in and its obvious from the outside looking in so to speak.

The world is getting darker.

A darker world absorbs more sunlight and converts it to heat.

I mean you had greek-roman culture which was the most pro homosexual culture everywhere forever until like the USA in the 90s... and you still think the bible wasn't a disaster for homosexuals?

ffs lesbians got their labeling from a greek island with women poetresses writing homosexual stuff. The roman elite engaged in regular homosexuality. The baccanali were bisexual orgies with 0 filters toward sexual orientation.

It was easier to be an homosexual in 100 DC Rome than in London in 1950 where they lobotomized you even if you were crucial a few years earlier to win the most importan war in the country history ffs.

Judaico-christian morality has always been horrifyingly bad for homosexuals and sexual deviants in general. Hell even for hetero people of both sexes with a strong enough sexual urge. It's an anti-human set of values that played against basic human nature.

How can you be blind to that i don't understand.

greek culture was a huge outlier and not representative of the world at large. there have always been outliers. So, yes I dont think the bible has been good for lgbtq groups. But its mostly been used to project evil projects independently of what the bible says. I dont think you can say that people in modern america who are homophobic get their ideas from the bible I think they get it from society at large. I also think how gays and especially women were treated in ancient greece is complicated.

But yeah obviously all this holding back of lgbtq communities is uneeded.

the "world at large" never existed. Romans, the most important culture worldwide at the time, absorbed the greeks. And that was it. That would have been the perfect path for human prosperity. Not only for homosexuals of course, but in general for the species. The best iteration of culture we ever had till that point. It's actually incredible what they managed to reach with their technology. Like the egyptians 3k years before, it's like some aliens "touched" them and made them special, unique, objectively so far superior to everyone else around them as to look like they weren't even part of the same species.

Except the cancer of christianity affected the empire and we lost 1k years. They tried to fend it off, for like 150 years. They didn't manage. Something about the utter monstrosity and immorality of judaico-christian values strikes a chord with too many people. Maybe it's about how that set of values protects mediocre, midwit little shitters and make them feel special. Not sure. But anyway they ended up dominating the (by far) best culture humanity ever developed up to that point.

And we got the dark ages. 1k years of horrendous retrograde thinking. Of cancellation of rational thought. And lost in transition, we also lost a complete acceptance (which isn't a "tolerance", it's different and far stronger) of sexual perversions as actually fine and compatible in full with society. A feature not a bug of our societies.

It's not only a complete acceptance of homosexuality as a normal part of human society. It's also the far more perverse obsession with monogamy which tortured countless hetero people if you think about it. Yes ofc homosexuals had it bad in say 900 DC (but men still had boats and monasteries, women had nunneries). Hetero people had it horrible as well.

Judaico-christian values are about totalitarian control of sex life for almost everyone (the "leaders" always escape control ofc). Homophobia is just another version of sexual patriarchy. They want to tell you how you should behave in your sexual choices, choice of partner and choice of enjoying your own body. It's totalitarianism.

They want to control "the gays", women, young men. Then yes "old/powerful" men can sometimes escape their grid ofc, they control it. But their idea , their morality, is sexuality has to be controlled or society falls apart.

Ofc they are wrong. But it's a whole system they believe in. They are actually terrified society becomes a disaster if their grip upon nromal people sexual lives is loosened.

At the time christianity preached radical equality to roman women who were undervalued.

theres no such thing as Judeo-Christian values imo.

I dont think it’s so much gender norms baked into society, that we could somehow un-bake, as it is primal might-makes-right instincts baked into humans, playing out between two physically unequal parties.

This conversation is testimony to the obsession we have with ourselves and our personal tribe.

Bryce is gay and wants the conversation to be about gay issues.

The gravitational force of our personal drama far outweighs the concern for the collective crisis that we all face in common.

I suffer from serious genetic hearing loss with late age onset. But there are much larger issues in the world than me and my temporary situation. In a few decades, my body substance will be recycled back into Earth.

Our species is at risk and we need to find a way to get the people of the various tribes heads out of their own asses and find a way to work together on the issues of common interest.

We spent a lot of time recently talking about gravity.

Is there any force which exerts more gravity than our egos ?

Thank you for your response. I would on a personal level be very cautious about answering/responding to this because of history on this forum. I’m enjoying talking to you a fellow rational adult. My answer to this question is something a lot of guys on here are uncomfortable with. I know this from experience, so I hesitate to answer here because from my perspective people on here get mad for no reason at this point in similar conversations.

My answer is in part that I do think it is gender norms and those who seek, for a variety of reasons to enforce gender norms, and not just the results from a difference in biological strength.

That's a pretty narrow definition of a superior culture considering the massive genocides they committed to get there. And there was nothing special in terms of how they made it to the top of the food chain: an ability to project force. The inability to sustain fighting forces away from their home was a natural barrier to conquest from without. So as with the Mongol empire, couple that with superior military capabilities like cavalry or armored phalanx and no one had a chance against them.

Yeah, Lowkey I loved talking to you about gravity. I thought my posts on the curvature of spacetime were pretty useful.

I’d love to eat eggos with you sometime.

romans genocided less than basically any other militarily superior group ever did up to that point, which the exception perhaps of Alexander the Great (which was the previous best for humanity).

Same as Alexander did, the romans actually integrated many alien populations without massacring all of them unlike what normal conquest entailed in that era. They did genocide specific groups which refused integration though (and they were absolutely right doing that ofc).

but the greatness of Alexander almost died with him while romans had a system that didn't require exceptional individuals to achieve good results (although having terrible individuals at the top was costly anyway).

Now saying "they were just able to project force, nothing special", is kinda dumb. "just" being far better at what all human groups attempted to do for their own survival isn't a small thing. And the whole system that made it possible to be so far better at projecting force was rooted in various incredible technological elements.

From street building to the rule of law to shipment logistics to fresh water access.

Just grain supply management in an era without the telephone was absurd when you think about it. Imagine the number of passages that had to go smooth with no immediate recourse available if things went wrong that are required to use egypt as the breadbasket of Rome

The thing with natural selection or ‘survival of the fittest’ is that once a species reaches the point where it can sustain itself across environments, shield itself from nature’s extremes, and defend against other predators, raw strength stops being decisive. We’re not performing in a lion’s circus; they're in ours. As with domesticated dogs, we can create an environment where it’s +EV for them to give up their natural right to eat us in exchange for the benefits we provide, making it a win-win for both parties.

My point is that whatever the nature/nurture balance is doesn’t really factor into my calculus. The question isn’t which side weighs more, it’s what environmental conditions we need to create to produce the outcomes we want and then insert that line of code right before output. My view is that society, through its cultural shaping - whether through government, norms, or institutions - should treat individuals like blank slates even if they aren’t because it's the fair thing to do.

I get what it takes to sustain a military campaign and that Rome’s logistics and engineering were remarkable. But just that ignores what made it possible. Millions were killed in conquest, and millions more were enslaved to do the heavy lifting. And yeah I get that's just how things were back then. But that’s exactly why their “superior” culture collapsed. The roads, aqueducts, and law weren’t floating on innovation and ingenuity alone; they were built on plunder and slaves. Once the conquests slowed and the supply of new labor and loot dried up, the system collapsed from within.

Based on lived experience, I interpret this post as discomfort with gay issues in this space. There is no need for that discomfort.

If you recall, before inviting me to speak further about my personal life, i brought up a health issue that had nothing to do with being gay, which was ignored. Your genetic hearing loss is a serious issue that I would care about.
I do care about climate change.

I am against dwelling in all kinds of tribal issues in this space.

I'm an anti-tribalist and I'm trying to encourage people to focus on transcendent issues which impact everyone.

Your lived experience is about you. If you want to make a thread about your lived experience, go ahead.

The Government of Finland published a future scenario paper which includes four alternative future scenarios:

The World of Cooperation

The World of Tech-giants

The World of Blocks

The Fracturing World, an environmental and societal collapse scenario. Here's a translation of the pathway of the collapse scenario, The Fracturing World. You can find the rest of the scenarios in Finnish here: https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/hand...

Scenario path – key takeaways from scenario phasing in a fractured world

2025–2029: The transformation of the world order and growing uncertainty

The US-China trade war will intensify during Trump's second presidential term.

The US's protectionist economic policy is weakening its economic growth and economic dominance. Most regions and countries are striving for the greatest possible self-sufficiency. Mutual cooperation in the West is fracturing.

Russia is taking advantage of the war situation in Ukraine, which has turned into a victory, and is waging a continuous hybrid war against the West.

No agreement can be reached at international climate, nature and environmental conferences.

The great powers and several large states are establishing space forces as part of their defence forces. States are investing significant amounts in the development of security technology, as they are under high public pressure to maintain order in a socially tense situation.

The conflict in the Middle East is escalating into a wider war. The conflict situation in Africa is worsening, the worsening famine and heat in the region are driving millions of people as refugees, mainly to neighboring regions, but also to a significant extent to Europe.

International security is weakening and armaments are accelerating. Dictatorships are strengthening their positions. Wars and conflicts are weakening the environment. Inequality and polarization are increasing globally.

The pluralism of traditional media is weakening due to profitability challenges and concentration of ownership, and trust in it is declining.

Misinformation and disinformation are rampant. Decisions are not based on researched information.

2030–2034: Dissolution of climate and democracy agreements

The majority of countries will withdraw from the Paris Climate Agreement and EU member states will abandon the EU's climate obligations.

States will strongly arm themselves against military threats against themselves.

Technology competition between countries will intensify further.

Measures related to climate change mitigation and human well-being will weaken.

Decision-making in the European Union is deadlocked, enlargement will fail and Hungary will leave the EU. Undemocratic governments will weaken the EU's rule of law, and regional groupings will form within it.

China will expand its sphere of interest in Asia.

There will be repeated military threats and isolated armed conflicts in Finland's neighbouring areas.

People's resilience to crises is being tested, and generations of working age are experiencing disenfranchisement. As disinformation increases and takes over, it is almost impossible for people to recognize what is true.

2035–2039: Deterioration of Ecosystem Services and Climate Migrations

The intensification of climate change and the lack of clean water are driving people to move more and more and causing uncontrolled climate migration. Extreme weather events are causing famine and conflicts.

Nature loss is progressing, weakening the ability of ecosystems to produce ecosystem services that humans need: the number of pollinators is collapsing, which is threatening global food security. Crime related to natural resources is increasing; the ability of states to protect them is weakening.

Only selected and varying transactions remain in the multilateral system.

Russia influences the politics of many EU countries and Balkan countries.

Russia is militarily aggressive and engages in continuous and powerful hybrid influence.

Some of the world's states are falling under the control of criminal groups due to economic and social collapses.

An uncontrolled global pandemic begins. Energy and food production is in crisis, becoming more expensive and being speculated on in the hope of quick profits.

The financing of public services is in crisis even in rich countries, and people are seeking safety in disparate communities. Child and maternal mortality is increasing globally. Movements are emerging that emphasize analog life.

2040–2044: The breakdown of alliances and the destruction of nature

States and regions focus on fighting their internal crises, for example Alliances based on NATO or the EU have broken down, and the remnants of the great powers do not provide security in the world.

Traditional institutions of democracy become fragile and even lose their significance.

With the destruction of nature, the possibilities of life on the planet are weakening. Methane has been released powerfully from the bottom of the seas, and the seas no longer function as any kind of sink.

Large masses of people are on the move and are looking for a better life wherever they can. Small movements, for example linked to wealth, religion or ancestry, have become stronger and play a central role in local, differentiated communities.

Nut Nut, most of what I’ve said here hasn’t been about gay issues — you’re the one who keeps reducing me to that. If anyone dragged “tribalism” into this, it was you. You introduced the idea that gay males can be reduced to a tribe which I don’t agree with, after specifically asking me for my personal perspectives.

Big crises don’t exist in some vacuum; they’re always felt through people’s lived realities. Calling that “tribal” doesn’t make you transcendent, it just makes you blind to how the universal and the personal overlap.

If you want transcendence, start by not dismissing the people living with the fallout