SM rejam-range against BB 3-bet
So I played in an MTT with 10% ante in the SB, folded to me. I have A10os, sitting on 25bb, equal stack to villain.
I raise 2,5x. BB 3-bets to 10x bb, 4x my raise. I fold face up, he shows AJ off and says good fold. The dealer criticise my play and says a solver 4bets jam A7os and better in this spot. He has several times said theory stuff that I know is wrong. But here I don't know a solvers 4-bet jam range. Does any one know the range a solver 4-bet jams in this spot? It's in the middle stage of the MTT with half the field gone.
7 Replies
Here are two ranges, one chip ev, one 50 % field left ICM. With normal sizings tho. BB going for 4x here is nonsense so its a guessing game on wtf is he doing it with.
OP, I'm guessing BB doesn't have bluffs when he uses this sizing and you can safely fold AT. AJ might be one of his worst hands here, even though he's probably not super-nutted with QQ+.
That's cool, but could we get BB's strategy when facing the raise? I'm interested in seeing what % of bluffs it has and what kind of hands use it. I'm also curious what the threshold for value hands in the induce vs jam line is.
OP, I'm guessing BB doesn't have bluffs when he uses this sizing and you can safely fold AT. AJ might be one of his worst hands here, even though he's probably not super-nutted with QQ+. That's cool, but could we get BB's strategy when facing the raise? I'm interested in seeing what % of bluffs it has and what kind of hands use it. I'm also curious what the threshold for value
What MTT was saying is this isn't a size in GTO, so this would have to be custom solved
Kinda wild that a dealer is talking strategy at the table.
If we assume BB is never folding if we shove, then we can just pretend he has shoved himself. Can then put this in a solver and get the call threshold.
If we assume BB is never folding if we shove, then we can just pretend he has shoved himself. Can then put this in a solver and get the call threshold.
It is a very different situation when you shove vs calling a shove.
The reason to shove in the SB with under 25 bb's is so you don't have to play OOP in a large pot. I can see why ATs would be a shove and I have personally shoved AJo a few times so I wouldn't have to play post flop. One time was unfortunate and knocked me out of the WSOP Super Senior in 28th place (out of 3,000+ entries) because the BB had AK... But the thing was he might have folded AQ and hands like 88. I jammed AKo in Day 2 of a $1,200 mystery bounty at the Venetian and the BB tanked and ultimately folded JTo probably because I had like 1000 chips more than him with about 20 bb's.
Imagine if you limp in the SB and the BB shoves. What do you call with? I have done that with AQ and called the shove by AK. There were 7 of us left in a 2 day $600 Venetian tournament. I sucked out with a Q on the river but in this case we would have been all in preflop no matter what I did at first. In another situation with 3 players left in a 300 Euro EPT event in Prague I limped with 99 and the BB insta shoved with 53o and I know this because I called and knocked him out (with basically the same 30 bb stack) though the flop was 765.
The other thing to consider is what your image is. If you have limp folded a few times (as I had done in the SB in Prague in the EPT) it looks like a jam will get you to fold. So limping with hands like 88+/AJ+ could be incredibly profitable. And if BB checks it back you aren't playing a big pot OOP with < 25 bb's.
The other thing to consider is that it is incredibly hard to play hands like 22-77 OOP SB vs BB especially in a raised pot. So jamming with <25 bb's makes it much easier because you don't have to know if BB hit one of their two overcards. And yes if they have a bigger pair it is a long shot. On the other hand I did it with 33 at the Venetian early day 2 before the money with about 15 blinds and got called by 22. Of course there was a 2 on the flop but I was extremely happy to have been called by that hand.
Part of the reason I am limping with hands I want to shove with is in case the BB raises (to like 3x or 4x). Then I am going to 3-bet shove so even if BB has two overcards I don't have to care if he would balance his bluffs post flop. My thinking is that BB would fold often to the raise even with a lot of overcards. And there are plenty of times that the BB would be raising with a total bluff/bad hand just to get you to fold, especially with a big stack.
In these situations especially with effective stack of over 25 bb's it is very important not to be bluffing with hands that when called with would be in very bad shape like JT/QJ. In the EPT with about 27 players left out of 441 on Day 2 the SB (who was a young Asian player) jammed with JTo when we had about the same amount of chips (25 blinds) and I looked down at AK and called and knocked him out. The reason he jammed was because I had played with him for about 6 hours with him on my left and when our table broke I told him he was the most solid Asian player I had ever played against because he wasn't open bluffing with any type of complete garbage. The other key situation was when I was HU in Prague at Rebuy Stars Luka in a $275 (6,000 Crown) tournament at like 5:30am and the guy OTB jammed with JT and 35 bb's. I looked down at AQ and called and won the trophy. Why he would do that is completely beyond me. No GTO/Solver (which he was a human version of) would ever suggest that.
Possible open shove. Good fold against most live villains. You have pretty much no FE.
Theoretically, the dealer may be right. However, call the floor. Dealer shouldn't be discussing strategy. Also, if dealer was a good player, he wouldn't be a dealer.
