Daniel Negreanu's very own containment thread. All things Danny go here

Tried catching up with this thread in the wrong situation, but so far what I've gleaned is that someone listed Allen Iverson as the GOAT basketball player (definitely great, but probably not even in the top 30 all-time). But better yet, someone who starts written sentences with "like" is calling other people childish.

I think the only thing that would truly balance a discussion on DN would be to have some Canadian childhood friends leak the pictures and maybe vhs of him at the D&D club events or riding the bench in mens field hockey. Stories about his hs escapades in drama class.

Also with the same bankroll/sponsorships/buy ins for a WSOP, list of players who would have a better ROI across all variants:
Grinder

Feel free to add more.

I can't go through those vlogs. However, as discussed before with QT96, you can overlimp really lose, particularly on the button with one limper. The blinds have random hands, there is ante, you have position, and it is hard for the blinds to raise OOP. That being said, I wouldn't play KTT2, and I don't know if it is good. DN probably thinks he has an advantage in small pots with position, particularly in a $1.5K PLO with almost all amateurs and low-mid stakes pros.

I believe the KTT2 hand they were 4 or 6-handed and someone limped, Daniel was in the SB and completed and then the BB checked and they went three-ways to a flop of ATx and the limper had AAxx.

Oh, so that was the hand he busted on set over set. I would think it would be bad to put any money in preflop except in the SB with that hand. It may be a fold in the SB, but people don't usually fold the SB in limped pots.

KTT2 3 spades he was on the button in that hand

Someone did a simulation before and found it was OK to overlimp QT96 single suited on the button with ante. I kind of doubt KTT2 single suited is considered playable. However, definitely DN's style to overlimp with position. Presumably, someone playing for a limp/3! with AAxx.

Lmao , that hand was beyond standard

Bb checked back strong aces, always hard to put bb on aces in a limped pot.

Negreanu was even hard on himself for it

Lmao@ folding that on the button 4 handed.

I should clarify beyond my "lol KTT2":

Look, it's just such a DNegs loosey-goosey sandwich-gobbed PLO bustout on its face. So I was just kind of snottily enjoying that due to my biases against his PLO skills and the pleasure in being proven right (at least, according to me).

But.

My aforementioned admittedly sloppy sim has KTT2 three of a suit at 67% fold when CO open limps.

It's just... don't. Three of a suit sucks. A deuce almost always sucks, especially if it's disconnected. Round that 67% output up to 100% and just don't get involved. If we're scrounging and scraping to find a VPIP here, we probably have the wrong attitude (and the combo has the two stated red flags for human heuristics). If we're a little tighter than optimal in a $1500 at the WSOP when we have a healthy stack on the final hand of the night, that's barely a mistake if it is one at all.

And this is the final point in the hand where solver study will get us anywhere: it's a $1500. In a WSOP context, that's low stakes. We know from the hand as-played and should know from... knowing things... that players will not be raising enough preflop. Recreational PLO players love to see flops cheaply, even when they have AA. For this and other reasons (a limped multiway pot), a solver without impractical degrees of tinkering will tell us absolutely nothing useful about this spot. (By the way, BB villain in this hand may be a pro for all I know, but because I literally don't know I'm just going to paint them as a $1500 rando.)

My thoughts on the hand are only slightly more critical than Daniel's were the day after. Good on him for recognizing it wasn't good.

(I'm taking Daniel's word over PokerNews's regarding the action, btw. Former's is just more coherent and he repeats it the same way in two videos.)

The day after, Daniel acknowledges that there are actually very few good runouts for his hand. I'm going to put it this way: actually good PLO players don't need a night's sleep to know that.

As this pot is growing, you'd better have increasingly good reasons for sticking around for future streets. Second nuts on this flop with absolutely no redraws is not a good position to be in, especially when we're playing three ways with two players who we should assume COULD have AA. (I mean, not both. But either of them. Especially BB.)

I think it's safe to assume that villains' ranges are both pretty wide preflop but not particularly weak OTF. So let's take a look (folks are free to stipulate other villain ranges, idk, it's all guesswork):

ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.3 P...
Omaha Hi, Generic syntax
Board - AhTc5h
PLAYER_1 KsTsTd2s
PLAYER_2 100%: (AT:hh,A5:hh,AA,55,KQJ:hh)
PLAYER_3 60%: (AT:hh,A5:hh,AA,55,KQJ:hh)
600000 trials (randomized)

[table=head]|Equity %|Wins Hi %|Ties Hi %|Wins Hi Count|Ties Hi Count|
KsTsTd2s|19.4127%|19.1985%|0.4370%|115191|2622|
100%: (AT:hh,A5:hh,AA...|33.6158%|33.4140%|0.4123%|200484|2474|
60%: (AT:hh,A5:hh,AA,...|46.9715%|46.7358%|0.4800%|280415|2880|
[/table]

(Don't forget that BB saw the flop for free and is demonstrably not raising all AA. He may not be raising at all when it goes call, call, complete to him four-handed in this spot. I never overestimate recs' preflop raising frequencies, so I'm not going to overestimate his. I'll err in the other direction very happily and say he's raising nothing. For CO's lack of cap to his range... that's frankly just kinda lazy of me, because I'm not going to try to figure out what he open limps vs RFIs. He might have no RFIs at all: it's not that unusual for low stakes PLO.)

Negreanu: "In theory, you could just GII OTF; that's what a computer would do." Which computer, Daniel? I have no faith that you've ever studied PLO at a computer. Furthermore, as I've said, we are really far from where an "out of the box" PLO sim will tell us anything about what to do (and--just to head this off--low stakes PLO players are so idiosyncratic and we're in such a weird real-life situation--the final hand of day 1--that solver sims just really won't tell us that much).

This is such an easy combo to get away from after BB's XR. Even day of, he says "I almost folded flop". It's truly not that hard to find the fold if you've got actual familiarity with how this game plays (and--to actually be fair to Daniel--why would he have mountains of reps with low stakes PLO? PLO got popular after he was rich).

Edit: Oh, meant to add one more thing. I understand that there would be a "publication bias" AGAINST him talking about hands where he does exercise pot control, but for all of Daniel's talk about wanting to control pot size in tournaments (unless he's spinning with his deep pockets), I like never see evidence of it.

As a default think KTT2 is a fold preflop. Only exception is if there are very bad players still in and they are quite in wsop 1500 and under PLO tournaments. Earlier in day it’s a race to get their money. We don’t know but it is a 1500 six max and not a 600 or 1000 mystery bounty. And it’s end of day so they might not be around.

Can fold the flop.

Even though I do not get why you waste so much time and energy posting solid af strategy in a thread where just about all posters are lol as far as poker goes, don't stop bro, I really enjoy your strat posts

That being said (and I played with Daniel in this tournament as well as the 10k), I find that recs in a 1.5k - as well as weak regs - will be overtly aggro preflop, as opposed to balanced, both in their ranges and sizings. Just saying, as this is 2025 and I would never discuss strat publicly as you do, but do appreciate that you are taking the time to do so

could hit a 222 flop and you get to play for stacks because you unblock AAxx bro

Cashed in $3K TORSE.

I don't like KTT2 preflop even on the button. I know you have position, but the 2 dangler is really bad. His style to see a flop in position. Nature of that starting hand to make what it made, 2nd set with little chance of improvement. IMO, the mistake was preflop.

On the flop, the BB should have less AA, not playing for a 3!, but it is probably correct for him to check the worst AA OOP. Think the ranges must have too much AA and not enough 55. BB has all 55. 55 could be combined with draws. Realistically, no one plays KTT2 and folds an AT5 flop.

I would recommend to ABSOLUTELY ALL POSTERS ITT, to abstain from talking strategy, unless you are DevWil, if not, criticize (or obsess over ) Dnegs lifestyle and carry on

Sorry for posting about PLO and not be DevWill 😀

Overlimping KTT2ts OTB in a no rake game with ante is generally Monkersolver approved, but not at shallow stack depths.

At 20bb ish and above it becomes a clear overlimp. Below 15bb ish its a fold

Whether or not solver ranges is applicable to the situation is a whole other matter. I would imagine you dont see a lot of solver approved ranges in a 1500 PLO and that will obvioulsy dictate a certain amont of deviation from solver

Yeah, kind of like a low stakes player to play passively except with the nuts, as here. So maybe BB could have a significant amount of AA and his x/r range was strong and weighted towards made hands. Not sure many would make that read and fold 2nd nuts on not that wet a board shallow.

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11th of 128, 82 places paying, in the $10K NLHE 6-max. The sunrunning continues.

Agree, I love the posts as someone who is still pretty murky on PLO strat.

As for "wasting time and energy," I don't consider it a waste. Far too many people express opinions without backing it up or showing their work. And I'm still fine with people posting opinions until they insist they're correct by effectively saying "because I said so."

Anyway, I'll second the appreciation.

I got dealt K10102 three spades in the small blind with a raise and a few callers in a juicy game. I was thinking about this thread and couldn't resist playing it. As I put the chips in I was thinking this is stupid but whatever. On the turn q10 was the nuts on a 79j8 board with one fd so I bet only the button called who was pretty tight. Potted the brick river and he thought for a while and folded the jack high straight. Gto baby.

Pretty sure you aren't supposed to call a raise with that from the SB. You can limp behind very loose in a tournament with antes and no rake. You have position and the blinds have random hands. That you can play loose in that particular situation does not mean you should be calling raises with junky hands. Most people play way to loose in 2/2 or 5/5 cash games.

lol yea no ****. It was definitely a -ev preflop call. I just couldn't resist since it was specifically in spades 3 to a suit. I definitely wouldn't have done it against good players either just felt like giving a little action in a game I was up big with a hand that made me laugh.

Cheers to the folks who've had nice things to say about my silly deep-dives.

As I've said, I don't really play much anymore (though the DNegs vlog always gets me back to the virtual felt), but it's not for lack of interest in the details of the game.

If anything, I just don't have much appetite left for the grind, which... everybody who's familiar knows that you can play a lot of hands of PLO and not necessarily be rewarded very well for being an expert at it.

My passion for PLO made it easy to want to pursue it full-time.

The reality of what a long and merely below-average run of bad luck can do to a prospective PLO career, though? Pretty off-putting. (My all-in luck over a large sample was merely yet objectively in the bottom 25%. Knowing there was a 1-in-4 chance I'd experience that or worse in any run of similar length was deeply discouraging, so these days I really only play with amounts of money I won't think twice about losing. And I only play when it sounds fun to me, which... yeah, basically just during the summer and in short stints. And it's usually when I have something on TV that doesn't demand my full attention.)

I seriously think you run better when you put down the solver and spreadsheets and pick up the alcohol. At least that’s been my experience.

The Poker Gods tend to reward that, similar to those who straddle when they need help in a big pot