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Matt, please, don't clutter the important thread with irrelevent accusations. I don't care if Chris works for Paradise or for Gul Dukat. I care about Paradise returning my money and about letting people know that Paradise can do it to them if they choose to.
Aslan:
You can chastise Matt all you want but, as with Doug Grant (whom he might just be), the poor guy lives for this kind of conflict (and likely little else). Some months back I pointed out obvious problems with certain claims of cheating by Paradise and ever since then he's been claiming that I'm some sort of conspirator or agent of Paradise Poker. As I've offered to prove repeatedly, I'm a bankruptcy attorney in Denver and have no connection with Paradise Poker or any internet provider. Just write it off as yet another coincidence of gambling and mental illness.
Mr.Alger's questions appear to assume guilt on the part of Aslan without any evidence. Nor does his original post state what can be done. He later states that Aslan should suit them. He then suggests that Aslan has committed credit card fraud, and may be prosecuted. That is definitely siding with the outfit. If a case has already been filed in civil court, it could be interpretated as witness intimidation.
I have never suggested that anyone "should suit" anyone else; only that litigation could remedy the problem posed. Nor have I suggested or have any reason to believe that Aslan or anyone else has committed fraud of any sort. And while I don't like having my name dragged through the mud by an anonymous internet twerp, if it helps you cope with what must be nearly overwhelming burdens of life then I guess I'm not entirely displeased.
Easy. When you give your credit card info you must, necessarily, give your name and address. These can be compared easily.
AF
Not so easy to map addresses.
Also, my guess is that the most serious form of fraud occurs with stolen credit cards, in which money is "dumped" to some other user. Address of the card will always be different.
I have been a big fan of Paradise Poker and have written of my success there often on this forum.
I also admire the way they seem to be managing their business.
The post by Aslan is disturbing...if it is true then Paradise needs to respond and say what evidence they have and what is their JUSTIFICATION for confiscating the money.
I don't see why they need anyone's permission to do this.
Day in and day out you read posts here that collusion is making Paradise unbeatable. Paradise is cheating, people are cheating, colluders are everywhere blah blah blah. "There needs to some crack down on the collusion. Professional monitoring damnit!!" Paradise catches someone who probably had no idea what an IP address is so him and some buddies collude. To level off the profits, they "transfer" money into his account by going heads up and folding the money to him over and over. Now, Paradise catches someone and we scream for proof??? What do you want? Patrol or not?.. and if so, are we going to question every time they catch someone and demand they display their argument. I bet they have caught 100s of cheaters but if they told you who they were some lunatic would demand he get his money back because he played in a game with the cheater.
SO... back to Aslan, he probably made some legit dollars along with his ill got gains and is pissed they grabbed the $2500. So he does the only thing he can do, bring public doubt and concern on Paradise, hence their decision not to comment. Anything they say will be twisted and misconstrued by the critics here. They caught someone, took appropriate action, and all of you begging for policing are now demanding an explanation. What do you want? A collusion free-for all, or to live with the decisions Paradise makes when they do catch someone? and explain to me someone whats in it for them to wrongly accuse someone... certainly the $2500 is inconsequential. There are much bigger account to seize im sure. If they have enough data and info to say you cheated, who are we to now police their policing without any facts. Just my opinion.
W
All i wanted is what has happened...the proof posted by David Sklansky refuting Aslan's claim.
Now, what was that crap about David's lack of a contribution to humanity?
Here it is, in spades!!
.
EXACTLY
PP has assumed the roll of the accuser, the judge, the jury and the executioner. They have done this without presenting any compelling evidance except " Trust us, we know"
There are people on death row right now, convicted FALSELY, on much better evidance.
Why do they need anyone's permission to reply?
Because it would be unethical for any corporate entity to discuss the details of a private matter. This is an issue between Paradise and Aslan. Aslan has chosen to air his complaints in public. Paradise would need permission to discuss details in public as it would likely require revealing personal information.
Dear David,
As per your request we are reply to you directly in person. Aslan was involved in a specific method of attempting to cheat the site; transferring funds from multiple accounts and credit cards to his own and then attempting to cash out the profit with a check. Then at a later point the cards come back as fraudulent charges. Our security measures identify and track this sort of behavior, and from there it's very easy to go back and analyze the fraud. These instances are extremely rare but when we have over 30,000 clients there are a few bad apples.
From the period July 22nd to July 28th the following 3 players "lkaer" , "viola" and "Boyuk" were involved without question in intentionally losing their chips to the "Aslan" account.
FACTS
Here is the full playing summary of the 3 accounts in question.
lkaer: Played 47 hands and lost $1,200 (max 48 hour limit). Boyuk: Played 39 hands and lost $1,200 (max 48 hour limit). viola: Played 90 hands and lost $1,500 (max 7 day limit).
Gee, I came over here from the newsgroup thinking I'm going to read something neat, instead I read that someone was comiting credit card fraud.
It sounds to me if three accounts are all losing the max loss per time period, and all to the same player, and all in a relative quick expirence (39 hands, lost $1200 to one player, geez, how come I never get so lucky?) it is a cut and dry case.
Good for Paradise if they really caught a scam in action!
Joel
THERE should be no doubt that PARADISE POKER is a criminal enterprise. I am recruiting a mercenary force to close down the operation. I am looking for two types of individuals 1) those with prior military experience 2) computer experts, i will be paying $300.00 per day plus expenses. We will have a one week training exercise somewhere in the southwest and then go in and close them down permanently. Any interested party can e-mail me @nealross@bigfoot.com. Time is of the essence before they move the operatiom. I was in Costa Rica in February, this will be an easy operation.
A commando named Neal? Sounds scary. Save a rainforest while you're down there, OK Neil?
Hey while you are at it, go take care of that referee that ripped off the US soccer team down there a week ago. He made one of the worst calls I have seen in a long time. He laid the crappy NFL refs to waste with a horrendous call that gave Costa Rica the game. He is listed as Jamaican but he must have been paid off to make that call, so he probably lives in style there. I mean if you have this whopping commando force, I am sure this job should be even easier!
ny player losing this fast, this much, and to the same person (Aslan) shoots up security flags very quickly.
What makes this fraudulent action so easily caught is not only the obvious hand histories but our technical data that 100% verifies that ALL these accounts are directly related as they have historically shared the same physical computer! These individuals all know each other. We have undeniable technical records that enable us to track every individual machine that logs in... this allows us to determine related accounts for security reasons (mostly. This is an invaluable tool.
ALL 3 of the accounts (lkaer, Boyuk & viola) were created and played from the EXACT SAME physical computer (even though they registered under different names and different physical addresses). Each machine has a unique serial number and these accounts logged in from the identical machine and from the same IP address. Aslan is also technically related to these accounts from a historic log in when he accessed the site from a related machine.
In each and every case at different times, days and tables Aslan was magically at the exact table against these individuals one at a time and was the benefactor of BLATANT intentional losses by the fraudulent accounts.
I would think this response should rightfully end this disgusting topic and threads.
.
since paradise has the ability to determine when multiple accts are logged on from the exact same physical machine, how is it that their software allows these accounts to log on SIMULTANEOUSLY - since this can ONLY be for the purpose of cheating? Furthermore, the hand histories indicate that in many cases classic " squeeze play " techniques were employed which no doubt contributed to losses of other players in these hands. There is absolutely no way that the software should allow more than one acct to log onto the site from the same location at the same time - this MUST be rectified, and all those players who lost any money at all in these hands should be compensated by PP. Multiple accts logged on from the same machine at the same time in the same game...this is truly incredible!
I don't think that is what they were saying at all. I am not sure, but it sounds like what Paradise is CLAIMING happended is that Aslan was on one machine, these three accounts were on another machine, and the three accounts took TURNS losing to him.
They also stated that Aslan had some sort of relationship to the machine that the other three were using. My understanding of their message is that he at some point in the past used that machine to log on under 'Aslan'.
Chad, This is a verbatum quote from the Paradise email: " All 3 of the accounts ( Ikaer,Boyuk & viola ) were created and played from the EXACT SAME physical computer..". That statement seems quite clear in what it means to convey - whether true or not. If the statement is true then it follows that for these players to appear at the same table they would be simultaneously logged on from the same computer. If this statement was incorrect or " poorly phrased " then I would be much relieved to find that this could not occur.It appears however, that it is in fact possible to set up seperate money accts on the same computer - a player did so successfully according to an ealier post here today on the subject
x
Read the subject line.
Up to your playground propaganda tactics again? I totally agree with Ed here. He wants to confiscate the money but have it returned to the people who have been cheated. An excellent idea. Note that Ed is, as I am, opposed to them KEEPING the confiscated funds.
I agree with Ed. This matter reinforces my respect for Ed and makes it all the more clear to me that you are a schmuck.
AF
ast try: Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) BarryB : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) last try: Fold slex2 : Call ($4) lkaer : Raise ($8) celtics : Fold MAKEaRUN: Fold antics : Fold BarryB : Call ($4) Aslan : Raise ($12) slex2 : Call ($12) lkaer : Call ($8) BarryB : Fold Dealt to lkaer [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5h ] Dealt to slex2 [ 6s ] lkaer : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) slex2 : Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ 6c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7c ] Dealt to slex2 [ 2c ] lkaer : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) slex2 : Fold lkaer : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ 3d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qd ] lkaer : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) lkaer : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ 4c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9s ] lkaer : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) lkaer : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $277 | Rake: $3 lkaer lost $121 (folded) [ Qc 9c Ah 9h 6c 3d 4c ] (a pair of nines) celtics lost $1 (folded) [ 5c Kc As ] MAKEaRUN lost $1 (folded) [ 5s Qs Ac ] antics lost $1 (folded) [ 4h Td 8c ] BarryB lost $9 (folded) [ 2h Ad 4d ] Aslan bet $137, collected $293, net +$156 [ Js Jd 8h 5h 7c Qd 9s ] (a pair of jacks) last try lost $1 (folded) [ 2d 8s 7h ] slex2 lost $25 (folded) [ Jc Th 9d 6s 2c ] (high card jack) -----------------------------------------------------
Boyuk - Aslan hands (this is an administrator hand history which shows the players hole cards in the summary - these are being published based on the fact the hands were engaged in fraud):
----------------------------------------------------- Game #15584038 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-20:53:09 (CST) Table "Papeete" [3007] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001075df] Aslan ($447.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00101a83] Vector ($313.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($370.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00100c0e] Bigdog ($342.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($1) Vector : Ante ($1) Boyuk : Ante ($1) Bigdog : Ante ($1) Dealt to Aslan [ Jd ] Dealt to Vector [ 4d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 4c ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 3c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9d ] Dealt to Vector [ 5h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 2s ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 6h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6s ] Dealt to Vector [ Jh ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Kh ] Dealt to Bigdog [ Ac ] Aslan : Bring-in ($4) Vector : Fold Boyuk : Raise ($8) Bigdog : Fold Aslan : Raise ($12) Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Qh ] Aslan : Bet ($8) Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Kc ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ Kd ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Js ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $146 | Rake: $2 Aslan bet $89, collected $162, net +$73 [ Jd 9d 6s As 3s Kd ] (high card ace) Vector lost $1 (folded) [ 4d 5h Jh ] Boyuk lost $73 (folded) [ 4c 2s Kh Qh Kc Js ] (a pair of kings) Bigdog lost $1 (folded) [ 3c 6h Ac ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15584949 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-21:01:34 (CST) Table "Papeete" [3007] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001075df] Aslan ($752.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$001076ce] IZZY23 ($416.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($400.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($270.00 in chips) -- playing
Seat # 8: [$00100c0e] Bigdog ($147.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($1) IZZY23 : Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Boyuk : Ante ($1) Bigdog : Ante ($1) Dealt to Aslan [ 2d ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 4s ] Dealt to Piesang [ 5h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6h ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jh ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 7h ] Dealt to Piesang [ 8d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 9d ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 5c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Th ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 9c ] Dealt to Piesang [ Tc ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Ah ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 6d ] Bigdog : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) IZZY23 : Fold Piesang : Fold Boyuk : Raise ($8) Bigdog : Fold Aslan : Call ($4) Dealt to Aslan [ 4h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 3s ] Boyuk : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Td ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ Qc ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 4c ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ Ks ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6s ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $135 | Rake: $2 Aslan bet $81, collected $151, net +$70 [ 2d Jh Th 4h 2s Qc Ks ] (a pair of twos) IZZY23 lost $1 (folded) [ 4s 7h 9c ] Piesang lost $1 (folded) [ 5h 8d Tc ] Boyuk lost $65 (folded) [ 6h 9d Ah 3s Td 4c 6s ] (a pair of sixes) Bigdog lost $5 (folded) [ 9h 5c 6d ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15585140 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-21:03:17 (CST) Table "Papeete" [3007] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001075df] Aslan ($821.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$001076ce] IZZY23 ($386.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($429.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($204.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00100c0e] Bigdog ($344.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($1) IZZY23 : Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Boyuk : Ante ($1) Bigdog : Ante ($1) Dealt to Aslan [ Jd ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 9h ] Dealt to Piesang [ 6c ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Ks ] Dealt to Bigdog [ Qc ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qh ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 9d ] Dealt to Piesang [ 9c ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Td ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 7h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6h ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 5s ] Dealt to Piesang [ 3d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 3c ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 6s ] Boyuk : Bring-in ($4) Bigdog : Fold Aslan : Raise ($8) IZZY23 : Call ($8) Piesang : Fold Boyuk : Call ($4) Dealt to Aslan [ 5h ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ Ad ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Th ] IZZY23 : Check Boyuk : Check Aslan : Bet ($8) IZZY23 : Call ($8) Boyuk : Raise ($16) Aslan : Raise ($16) IZZY23 : Fold Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ Ts ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 5c ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 8s ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ 3h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 7c ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $147 | Rake: $2 Aslan bet $81, collected $163, net +$82 [ Jd Qh 6h 5h Ts As 3h ] (high card ace) IZZY23 lost $17 (folded) [ 9h 9d 5s Ad ] Piesang lost $1 (folded) [ 6c 9c 3d ] Boyuk lost $65 (folded) [ Ks Td 3c Th 5c 8s 7c ] (a pair of tens) Bigdog lost $1 (folded) [ Qc 7h 6s ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15585947 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-21:10:27 (CST) Table "Papeete" [3007] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001075df] Aslan ($787.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($437.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$0010520a] MrMaverick ($231.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($637.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($82.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($1) ImTheCaptain: Ante ($1) MrMaverick: Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Boyuk : Ante ($1) Dealt to Aslan [ Td ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 3h ] Dealt to MrMaverick [ 2h ] Dealt to Piesang [ 9h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 7d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6c ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 9s ] Dealt to MrMaverick [ 8c ] Dealt to Piesang [ Ks ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Tc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7s ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 2s ] Dealt to MrMaverick [ As ] Dealt to Piesang [ Ad ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Th ] ImTheCaptain: Bring-in ($4) MrMaverick: Fold Piesang : Raise ($8) Boyuk : Raise ($16) Aslan : Raise ($24) ImTheCaptain: Fold Piesang : Fold Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ 8d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 8h ] Boyuk : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ Jd ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6h ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ Jh ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Jc ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Kh ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call All-in ($9) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $177 | Rake: $2 Aslan bet $89, collected $184, net +$95 (showed hand) [ Td 6c 7s 8d Jd Jh 3s ] (a pair of jacks) ImTheCaptain lost $5 (folded) [ 3h 9s 2s ] MrMaverick lost $1 (folded) [ 2h 8c As ] Piesang lost $9 (folded) [ 9h Ks Ad ] Boyuk lost $82 (showed hand) [ 7d Tc Th 8h 6h Jc Kh ] (a pair of tens) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15697071 - $15/$30 Hold'em - 2000/07/28-22:21:07 (CST) Table "Rum Cay" [1012] (real money) -- Seat 5 is the button Seat # 1: [$00105c2a] buzzard09 ($654.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$001075df] Aslan ($245.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001035dc] dergy ($900.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00103a13] shuelry ($1,030.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 9: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($616.00 in chips) -- playing shuelry : Post Small Blind ($10) Boyuk : Post Big Blind ($15) Dealt to shuelry [ Qs ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6d ] Dealt to buzzard09 [ 7c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ts ] Dealt to dergy [ 5s ] Dealt to shuelry [ Ac ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6h ] Dealt to buzzard09 [ 3s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6s ] Dealt to dergy [ Jd ] buzzard09: Fold Aslan : Raise ($30) dergy : Fold shuelry : Call ($20) Boyuk : Raise ($30) Aslan : Raise ($30) shuelry : Call ($30) Boyuk : Call ($15) *** FLOP *** : [ 8s 8h 7s ] shuelry : Check Boyuk : Bet ($15) Aslan : Raise ($30) shuelry : Call ($30) Boyuk : Call ($15) *** TURN *** : [ 8s 8h 7s ] [ 2c ] shuelry : Check Boyuk : Bet ($30) Aslan : Call ($30) shuelry : Fold *** RIVER *** : [ 8s 8h 7s 2c ] [ Tc ] Boyuk : Bet ($30) Aslan : Raise ($60) Boyuk : Raise ($60) Aslan : Raise ($60) Boyuk : Call ($30) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $568 | Rake: $2 Board: [ 8s 8h 7s 2c Tc ] buzzard09 didn't bet (folded) [ 7c 3s ] (two pair, eights and sevens) Aslan bet $240, collected $568, net +$328 (showed hand) [ Ts 6s ] (two pair, tens and eights) dergy didn't bet (folded) [ 5s Jd ] (a pair of eights) shuelry lost $90 (folded) [ Qs Ac ] (a pair of eights) Boyuk lost $240 [ 6d 6h ] (two pair, eights and sixes) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15699151 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/28-22:38:54 (CST) Table "Bikar" [1028] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($382.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100cd0] celtics ($273.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105cbb] axelfreed ($137.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001075df] Aslan ($372.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00105c21] BarryB ($579.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00100d0e] elpanavic ($209.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00102d6b] last try ($670.00 in chips) -- sitting out Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($605.00 in chips) -- playing Boyuk : Ante ($1) celtics : Ante ($1) axelfreed: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) BarryB : Ante ($1) elpanavic: Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) Dealt to Boyuk [ 3c ] Dealt to celtics [ 5h ] Dealt to axelfreed [ 8c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9s ] Dealt to BarryB [ Jh ] Dealt to elpanavic [ 2s ] Dealt to slex2 [ 9h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 7h ] Dealt to celtics [ Ad ] Dealt to axelfreed [ 2d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Js ] Dealt to BarryB [ Th ] Dealt to elpanavic [ 5c ] Dealt to slex2 [ 3d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 9c ] Dealt to celtics [ 4s ] Dealt to axelfreed [ Kd ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ts ] Dealt to BarryB [ Qd ] Dealt to elpanavic [ 8s ] Dealt to slex2 [ 3h ] slex2 : Bring-in ($4) Boyuk : Call ($4) celtics : Fold axelfreed: Fold Aslan : Raise ($8) BarryB : Call ($8) elpanavic: Fold slex2 : Call ($4) Boyuk : Raise ($12) Aslan : Raise ($16) BarryB : Fold slex2 : Fold Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Boyuk [ 7d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6c ] Aslan : Bet ($8) Boyuk : Raise ($16) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to Boyuk [ 5d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4h ] Aslan : Check Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Boyuk [ Jd ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5s ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Boyuk [ 2c ] Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Raise ($32) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Call ($16) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $324 | Rake: $3 Boyuk lost $153 [ 3c 7h 9c 7d 5d Jd 2c ] (a pair of sevens) celtics lost $1 (folded) [ 5h Ad 4s ] axelfreed lost $1 (folded) [ 8c 2d Kd ] Aslan bet $153, collected $324, net +$171 (showed hand) [ 9s Js Ts 6c 4h 5s As ] (a flush, ace high) BarryB lost $9 (folded) [ Jh Th Qd ] elpanavic lost $1 (folded) [ 2s 5c 8s ] last try didn't bet slex2 lost $9 (folded) [ 9h 3d 3h ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15699389 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/28-22:40:51 (CST) Table "Bikar" [1028] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($229.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100cd0] celtics ($272.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001075df] Aslan ($543.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00105c21] BarryB ($570.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00100d0e] elpanavic ($208.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00102d6b] last try ($670.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($596.00 in chips) -- playing Boyuk : Ante ($1) celtics : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) BarryB : Ante ($1) elpanavic: Ante ($1) last try: Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) Dealt to Boyuk [ 8h ] Dealt to celtics [ 3d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6s ] Dealt to BarryB [ Jh ] Dealt to elpanavic [ 4s ] Dealt to last try [ Ad ] Dealt to slex2 [ 7s ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 7c ] Dealt to celtics [ 5c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9d ] Dealt to BarryB [ 4c ] Dealt to elpanavic [ Js ] Dealt to last try [ Kh ] Dealt to slex2 [ Jd ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 2s ] Dealt to celtics [ 2c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Kc ] Dealt to BarryB [ Ks ] Dealt to elpanavic [ Tc ] Dealt to last try [ 8s ] Dealt to slex2 [ Qc ] celtics : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Raise ($8) BarryB : Fold elpanavic: Fold last try: Fold slex2 : Fold Boyuk : Call ($8) celtics : Fold Dealt to Boyuk [ Td ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5d ] Aslan : Bet ($8) Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Boyuk [ Th ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9c ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Boyuk [ 3s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3c ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Boyuk [ 7h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7d ] Boyuk : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $104 | Rake: $3 Boyuk lost $49 (folded) [ 8h 7c 2s Td Th 3s 7h ] (two pair, tens and sevens) celtics lost $5 (folded) [ 3d 5c 2c ] Aslan bet $65, collected $120, net +$55 [ 6s 9d Kc 5d 9c 3c 7d ] (a pair of nines) BarryB lost $1 (folded) [ Jh 4c Ks ] elpanavic lost $1 (folded) [ 4s Js Tc ] last try lost $1 (folded) [ Ad Kh 8s ] slex2 lost $1 (folded) [ 7s Jd Qc ] -----------------------------------------------------
viola - Aslan hands (this is an administrator hand history which shows the players hole cards in the summary - these are being published based on the fact the hands were engaged in fraud):
----------------------------------------------------- Game #15036922 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/22-22:19:13 (CST) Table "Guadeloupe" [2324] (real money) Seat # 1: [$00104832] RiverGuy ($510.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100d24] Apple22 ($213.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($537.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001076f1] viola ($277.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001067aa] JeffreyC ($202.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($392.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($745.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($439.00 in chips) -- playing RiverGuy: Ante ($1) Apple22 : Ante ($1) ImTheCaptain: Ante ($1) viola : Ante ($1) JeffreyC: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Dealt to RiverGuy [ As ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Ah ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ Jc ] Dealt to viola [ 2s ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 4c ] Dealt to Phil King [ Ad ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5d ] Dealt to Piesang [ Qd ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ Th ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 9s ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 7d ] Dealt to viola [ Ts ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 9c ] Dealt to Phil King [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to Piesang [ Kc ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ 4h ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 3d ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ Tc ] Dealt to viola [ Qc ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ Qh ] Dealt to Phil King [ Kh ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ks ] Dealt to Piesang [ 8c ] Apple22 : Bring-in ($4) ImTheCaptain: Fold viola : Raise ($8) JeffreyC: Fold Phil King: Fold Aslan : Raise ($16) Piesang : Fold RiverGuy: Fold Apple22 : Fold viola : Raise ($16) Aslan : Raise ($16) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ Js ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5s ] Aslan : Bet ($8) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 7h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2h ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 7c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8d ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ Jd ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9d ] viola : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $217 | Rake: $3 RiverGuy lost $1 (folded) [ As Th 4h ] Apple22 lost $5 (folded) [ Ah 9s 3d ] ImTheCaptain lost $1 (folded) [ Jc 7d Tc ] viola lost $105 (folded) [ 2s Ts Qc Js 7h 7c Jd ] (two pair, jacks and sevens) JeffreyC lost $1 (folded) [ 4c 9c Qh ] Phil King lost $1 (folded) [ Ad 9h Kh ] Aslan bet $121, collected $233, net +$112 [ 5d 3s Ks 5s 2h 8d 9d ] (a pair of fives) Piesang lost $1 (folded) [ Qd Kc 8c ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15036095 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/22-22:11:04 (CST) Table "Guadeloupe" [2324] (real money) Seat # 1: [$00104832] RiverGuy ($438.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100d24] Apple22 ($222.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($545.00 in chips) -- sitting out Seat # 4: [$001076f1] viola ($441.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001067aa] JeffreyC ($251.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($587.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($443.00 in chips) -- playing RiverGuy: Ante ($1) Apple22 : Ante ($1) viola : Ante ($1) JeffreyC: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Dealt to RiverGuy [ Th ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 6c ] Dealt to viola [ 6h ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 3s ] Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Dealt to Piesang [ Jh ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ 8c ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 9d ] Dealt to viola [ 9s ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 2h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7d ] Dealt to Piesang [ Qd ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ Kh ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Qs ] Dealt to viola [ Ad ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5s ] Dealt to Piesang [ 3c ] Piesang : Bring-in ($4) RiverGuy: Call ($4) Apple22 : Fold viola : Raise ($8) JeffreyC: Fold Aslan : Raise ($16) Piesang : Fold RiverGuy: Fold viola : Raise ($16) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 4c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4d ] viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 4s ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ah ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Raise ($32) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ Kd ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2c ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 8d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jc ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Call ($16) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $347 | Rake: $3 RiverGuy lost $5 (folded) [ Th 8c Kh ] Apple22 lost $1 (folded) [ 6c 9d Qs ] ImTheCaptain didn't bet viola lost $169 [ 6h 9s Ad 4c 4s Kd 8d ] (a pair of fours) JeffreyC lost $1 (folded) [ 3s 2h 9h ] Aslan bet $169, collected $347, net +$178 (showed hand) [ As 7d 5s 4d Ah 2c Jc ] (a pair of aces) Piesang lost $5 (folded) [ Jh Qd 3c ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15037278 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/22-22:22:33 (CST) Table "Guadeloupe" [2324] (real money) Seat # 1: [$00104832] RiverGuy ($518.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100d24] Apple22 ($206.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($534.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001076f1] viola ($106.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001067aa] JeffreyC ($191.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($389.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($927.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($400.00 in chips) -- playing RiverGuy: Ante ($1) Apple22 : Ante ($1) ImTheCaptain: Ante ($1) viola : Ante ($1) JeffreyC: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) Dealt to RiverGuy [ 4s ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Kd ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 4h ] Dealt to viola [ 4d ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 2d ] Dealt to Phil King [ 5s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to slex2 [ Ah ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ 7c ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 7d ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ Ac ] Dealt to viola [ Td ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 3d ] Dealt to Phil King [ Jh ] Dealt to Aslan [ Tc ] Dealt to slex2 [ Qh ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ As ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Qd ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 6h ] Dealt to viola [ 8c ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ Jd ] Dealt to Phil King [ 2s ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qc ] Dealt to slex2 [ 7s ] Phil King: Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Raise ($8) slex2 : Fold RiverGuy: Fold Apple22 : Call ($8) ImTheCaptain: Fold viola : Call ($8) JeffreyC: Call ($8) Phil King: Fold Dealt to Apple22 [ 6s ] Dealt to viola [ Ks ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ Kc ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ad ] Aslan : Bet ($8) Apple22 : Fold viola : Raise ($16) JeffreyC: Fold Aslan : Raise ($16) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 6c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9c ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 6d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jc ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 7h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3h ] viola : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $217 | Rake: $3 RiverGuy lost $1 (folded) [ 4s 7c As ] Apple22 lost $9 (folded) [ Kd 7d Qd 6s ] ImTheCaptain lost $1 (folded) [ 4h Ac 6h ] viola lost $97 (folded) [ 4d Td 8c Ks 6c 6d 7h ] (a pair of sixes) JeffreyC lost $9 (folded) [ 2d 3d Jd Kc ] Phil King lost $5 (folded) [ 5s Jh 2s ] Aslan bet $113, collected $233, net +$120 [ 3s Tc Qc Ad 9c Jc 3h ] (a pair of threes) slex2 lost $1 (folded) [ Ah Qh 7s ] ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15037153 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/22-22:21:20 (CST) Table "Guadeloupe" [2324] (real money) Seat # 1: [$00104832] RiverGuy ($519.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100d24] Apple22 ($207.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($535.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001076f1] viola ($171.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001067aa] JeffreyC ($196.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($390.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($856.00 in chips) -- playing RiverGuy: Ante ($1) Apple22 : Ante ($1) ImTheCaptain: Ante ($1) viola : Ante ($1) JeffreyC: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Dealt to RiverGuy [ 2h ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Jc ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ Ah ] Dealt to viola [ Ts ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 8h ] Dealt to Phil King [ Qh ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ 3h ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 9h ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 4d ] Dealt to viola [ 5s ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 7h ] Dealt to Phil King [ Ad ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9s ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ Qc ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 7d ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 8s ] Dealt to viola [ 8d ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 2d ] Dealt to Phil King [ 7s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7c ] JeffreyC: Bring-in ($4) Phil King: Fold Aslan : Raise ($8) RiverGuy: Fold Apple22 : Fold ImTheCaptain: Fold viola : Call ($8) JeffreyC: Fold Dealt to viola [ Js ] Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Aslan : Bet ($8) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ Kc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4s ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 3s ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qd ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 3d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jd ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $136 | Rake: $3 RiverGuy lost $1 (folded) [ 2h 3h Qc ] Apple22 lost $1 (folded) [ Jc 9h 7d ] ImTheCaptain lost $1 (folded) [ Ah 4d 8s ] viola lost $65 (folded) [ Ts 5s 8d Js Kc 3s 3d ] (a pair of threes) JeffreyC lost $5 (folded) [ 8h 7h 2d ] Phil King lost $1 (folded) [ Qh Ad 7s ] Aslan bet $81, collected $152, net +$71 [ 2s 9s 7c As 4s Qd Jd ] (high card ace) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15244227 - $4/$8 7-card stud - 2000/07/24-19:37:51 (CST) Table "Jolly Beach" [1294] (real money) Seat # 2: [$001076f1] viola ($273.50 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($52.50 in chips) -- playing viola : Ante ($0.50) Aslan : Ante ($0.50) Dealt to viola [ 2d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jc ] Dealt to viola [ Ks ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3d ] Dealt to viola [ 4s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6s ] viola : Bring-in ($2) Aslan : Raise ($4) viola : Call ($2) Dealt to viola [ Qh ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9h ] viola : Bet ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) Dealt to viola [ As ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qc ] viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) viola : Raise ($16) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 2c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4c ] viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 9c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7d ] viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise All-in ($12) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $96 | Rake: $1 viola lost $48.50 (folded) [ 2d Ks 4s Qh As 2c 9c ] (a pair of twos) Aslan bet $52.50, collected $100, net +$47.50 [ Jc 3d 6s 9h Qc 4c 7d ] (high card queen) ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15244134 - $4/$8 7-card stud - 2000/07/24-19:37:11 (CST) Table "Jolly Beach" [1294] (real money) Seat # 2: [$001076f1] viola ($284.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($43.00 in chips) -- playing viola : Ante ($0.50) Aslan : Ante ($0.50) Dealt to viola [ 8c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to viola [ Jc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4d ] Dealt to viola [ 8d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5c ] Aslan : Bring-in ($2) viola : Call ($2) Dealt to viola [ Kc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8s ] viola : Bet ($4) Aslan : Raise ($8) viola : Call ($4) Dealt to viola [ Js ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4s ] viola : Check Aslan : Bet ($8) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $20 | Rake: $1 viola lost $10.50 (folded) [ 8c Jc 8d Kc Js ] (two pair, jacks and eights) Aslan bet $18.50, collected $28, net +$9.50 [ 2s 4d 5c 8s 4s ] (a pair of fours) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15245240 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/24-19:45:27 (CST) Table "Virgin Isles" [1018] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001076f1] viola ($260.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$001075df] Aslan ($228.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$0010657f] Sweeti ($389.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$0010560b] Agent ($470.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00102d6b] last try ($1,001.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00100ee6] harry ($541.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001034ff] Mr Nice Guy ($167.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($806.00 in chips) -- playing viola : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Sweeti : Ante ($1) Agent : Ante ($1) last try: Ante ($1) harry : Ante ($1) Mr Nice Guy: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) Dealt to viola [ Kd ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qs ] Dealt to Sweeti [ Kc ] Dealt to Agent [ 5s ] Dealt to last try [ Ts ] Dealt to harry [ 4h ] Dealt to Mr Nice Guy [ 5h ] Dealt to Phil King [ Qd ] Dealt to viola [ Kh ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2d ] Dealt to Sweeti [ 9d ] Dealt to Agent [ 3d ] Dealt to last try [ 3h ] Dealt to harry [ 8s ] Dealt to Mr Nice Guy [ 9c ] Dealt to Phil King [ 7c ] Dealt to viola [ 2c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Js ] Dealt to Sweeti [ As ] Dealt to Agent [ 4s ] Dealt to last try [ 8h ] Dealt to harry [ 6s ] Dealt to Mr Nice Guy [ Jd ] Dealt to Phil King [ Qh ] viola : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) Sweeti : Raise ($8) Agent : Fold last try: Fold harry : Fold Mr Nice Guy: Fold Phil King: Fold viola : Call ($4) Aslan : Raise ($12) Sweeti : Raise ($16) viola : Call ($16) Aslan : Raise ($16) Sweeti : Call ($8) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ Td ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to Sweeti [ 3s ] Sweeti : Check viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) Sweeti : Fold viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ Qc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6c ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 4d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8c ] viola : Check Aslan : Check Dealt to viola [ Jh ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ks ] viola : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $165 | Rake: $3 viola lost $65 (folded) [ Kd Kh 2c Td Qc 4d Jh ] (a pair of kings) Aslan bet $81, collected $181, net +$100 [ Qs 2d Js 2s 6c 8c Ks ] (a pair of twos) Sweeti lost $33 (folded) [ Kc 9d As 3s ] Agent lost $1 (folded) [ 5s 3d 4s ] last try lost $1 (folded) [ Ts 3h 8h ] harry lost $1 (folded) [ 4h 8s 6s ] Mr Nice Guy lost $1 (folded) [ 5h 9c Jd ] Phil King lost $1 (folded) [ Qd 7c Qh ] -----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- From: > Someone has just posted on our Internet Forum that you have confiscated $2500 > of his money for "transferring funds". It is causing consternation. Could you > please put a post on that forum regarding this? DS
----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <.support@paradisepoker.com> Received: from rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (rly-yh01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.33]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:02:22 -0400 Received: from cardroom3.paradisepoker.com (cardroom3.paradisepoker.com [209.203.205.20]) by rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:01:15 -0400 Message-ID: <106201bffb4b$9b311f70$2ccfcbd1@mark> Reply-To: "Paradise Poker" <.support@paradisepoker.com> From: "Paradise Poker" <.support@paradisepoker.com> To: <.Dsklansky@aol.com> References: <.c8.84fe224.26b73d8a@aol.com> Subject: Re: A Post on Our Forum Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:01:12 -0600 Organization: Paradise Poker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_105F_01BFFB19.503359C0"
I think the hand history says it all
Well, that looks fairly conclusive. In any event, if the monies are credited back to the original credit cards, including the money that was lost to other players, then Paradise is taking a loss on this.
If in fact that is what they are doing, then I commend them for their action. The very first people that need to be protected are the legitimate credit card holders. If Paradise is willing to lose money to credit those people back, my faith in the integrity of the company is reinforced.
Of course, the flakes will come out now and claim that the money was never credited back to anyone, or that the original credit cards are dummies set up by Paradise or something.
They must be using the MAC address of the network card in the machine, or generating a local serial number at install in order to track these computers. An intelligent move. My opinion of their security has also gone up a notch or two.
Deep throat and others!
Paradise does not accuse me of colluding!!! So stop saying that i am guilty unless you know something about it. Apparently they say that someone stole money from credit cards and lost it to me. This is not the case as hand histories show and I already offered to send histories to anyone interested. So stop sentensing me without any evidence.
You aren't accused of colluding. You're accused of felony credit card fraud, or at least being an accessory to it.
Paradise may be right. Seizing money and accusing people of felonies isn't fetherweight stuff. This type of stuff proably goes on more than they let on. Not everyone that has this happen is going to go on this forum and complain, declare his innocence, and talk to a lawyer about it. It should be interesting.
After reading some of the hand histories--Guilty
Some of the hand histories? The first one was convincing enough.
*** SUMMARY *** Pot: $48 | Rake: $1 Aslan bet $24.50, collected $48, net +$23.50 [ Qh As 6c 5s 9h Ac 3s ] (a pair of aces) lkaer lost $24.50 (folded) [ 3c 3h 8h Qd 5h Ah Jh ] (a flush, ace high)
Yeah, that 659A board looks awful scary to someone who fills an ace-high flush on the river.
I welcome any formal response from Aslan on my website Askoj.com. I for one do believe in his innocence.
The Juice
btw - if you do play on Paradise Poker and you see me, say hello. I play under the screen name 1Kaer.
Sorry I don't know how to do this right.
> Sorry I don't know how to do this right.
Yeah, it's a real brain-twister. Following is a concatenation of David's multiple posts. All discontinuities and mis-formatting are carried over verbatim.
Dear David,
As per your request we are reply to you directly in person. Aslan was involved in a specific method of attempting to cheat the site; transferring funds from multiple accounts and credit cards to his own and then attempting to cash out the profit with a check. Then at a later point the cards come back as fraudulent charges. Our security measures identify and track this sort of behavior, and from there it's very easy to go back and analyze the fraud. These instances are extremely rare but when we have over 30,000 clients there are a few bad apples.
From the period July 22nd to July 28th the following 3 players "lkaer" , "viola" and "Boyuk" were involved without question in intentionally losing their chips to the "Aslan" account.
FACTS
Here is the full playing summary of the 3 accounts in question.
lkaer: Played 47 hands and lost $1,200 (max 48 hour limit). Boyuk: Played 39 hands and lost $1,200 (max 48 hour limit). viola: Played 90 hands and lost $1,500 (max 7 day limit).
ny player losing this fast, this much, and to the same person (Aslan) shoots up security flags very quickly.
What makes this fraudulent action so easily caught is not only the obvious hand histories but our technical data that 100% verifies that ALL these accounts are directly related as they have historically shared the same physical computer! These individuals all know each other. We have undeniable technical records that enable us to track every individual machine that logs in... this allows us to determine related accounts for security reasons (mostly. This is an invaluable tool.
ALL 3 of the accounts (lkaer, Boyuk & viola) were created and played from the EXACT SAME physical computer (even though they registered under different names and different physical addresses). Each machine has a unique serial number and these accounts logged in from the identical machine and from the same IP address. Aslan is also technically related to these accounts from a historic log in when he accessed the site from a related machine.
In each and every case at different times, days and tables Aslan was magically at the exact table against these individuals one at a time and was the benefactor of BLATANT intentional losses by the fraudulent accounts.
It should also be noted that we are not taking any money from anyone and in fact are sure to lose additional money in this fraud as some of the funds lost by the fraudulent players went to other players as the fraudulent accounts pathetically attempted to disguise their actions. The $2,500 in question will be returned to the credit cards that made the original purchases.
In conjunction to the technical proof, the Hand Histories below are clearly show the obvious intentional losing of the fraudulent accounts to their related party Aslan. We have included samples from each of the three players.
1. Please note the BLATANT folding of better hands even when the hand is checked to ensure Aslan wins the pot. 2. Please note the BLATANT raise, raise, call of hands that are visibly and guaranteed beaten (exposed cards in stud). 3. Please note how in each case with each player no matter the time they played, or the tables they played at, Aslan was sitting there at the exact same table even moving with them to different tables during the same session.
David, we appreciate your concerns since this fraudulent act has been made a public ordeal. When blatant cheating is committed we must act and in this case we have. Having responded to your request we wonder if you may do us the courtesy of posting something based on the evidence we have provided, if you wish to post our email in its entirety you have our permission.
If you have any further questions please let me know.
Sincerely,
Winston Paradise Poker Security
lkaer - Aslan hands (this is an administrator hand history which shows the players hole cards in the summary - these are being published based on the fact the hands were engaged in fraud):
Game #15576707 - $4/$8 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-19:42:15 (CST) Table "St. Lucia" [1016] (real money) Seat # 3: [$001075df] Aslan ($28.50 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079de] lkaer ($568.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($0.50) lkaer : Ante ($0.50) Dealt to Aslan [ Qh ] Dealt to lkaer [ 3c ] Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Dealt to lkaer [ 3h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6c ] Dealt to lkaer [ 8h ] Aslan : Bring-in ($2) lkaer : Raise ($4) Aslan : Call ($2) Dealt to Aslan [ 5s ] Dealt to lkaer [ Qd ] lkaer : Bet ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) Dealt to Aslan [ 9h ] Dealt to lkaer [ 5h ] lkaer : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ Ac ] Dealt to lkaer [ Ah ] lkaer : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to lkaer [ Jh ] lkaer : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $48 | Rake: $1 Aslan bet $24.50, collected $48, net +$23.50 [ Qh As 6c 5s 9h Ac 3s ] (a pair of aces) lkaer lost $24.50 (folded) [ 3c 3h 8h Qd 5h Ah Jh ] (a flush, ace high) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15578283 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-19:56:56 (CST) Table "Virgin Isles" [1018] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079de] lkaer ($426.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$001026fd] sweet lou ($262.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$0010000a] QuadAces ($556.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($362.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00100fa1] JoeFi ($398.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00104358] ezed. ($487.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($122.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00102497] 10JQKA ($173.00 in chips) -- sitting out lkaer : Ante ($1) sweet lou: Ante ($1) QuadAces: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) JoeFi : Ante ($1) ezed. : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Dealt to lkaer [ 9d ] Dealt to sweet lou [ 9c ] Dealt to QuadAces [ 2c ] Dealt to Phil King [ 3d ] Dealt to JoeFi [ 6s ] Dealt to ezed. [ Tc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4d ] Dealt to lkaer [ 5c ] Dealt to sweet lou [ Kc ] Dealt to QuadAces [ 7d ] Dealt to Phil King [ 8h ] Dealt to JoeFi [ 9s ] Dealt to ezed. [ Js ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8c ] Dealt to lkaer [ Qh ] Dealt to sweet lou [ 5s ] Dealt to QuadAces [ Qd ] Dealt to Phil King [ 6d ] Dealt to JoeFi [ 8d ] Dealt to ezed. [ 2s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7h ] ezed. : Timed out ezed. : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Raise ($8) lkaer : Raise ($16) sweet lou: Fold QuadAces: Fold Phil King: Fold JoeFi : Call ($16) ezed. : Timed out ezed. : Force All-in Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ Ks ] Dealt to JoeFi [ 5d ] Dealt to ezed. [ Jd ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3h ] lkaer : Bet ($8) JoeFi : Call ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) lkaer : Raise ($16) JoeFi : Call ($16) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ 6c ] Dealt to JoeFi [ 3c ] Dealt to ezed. [ 7c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Kd ] lkaer : Bet ($16) JoeFi : Call ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ 6h ] Dealt to JoeFi [ Qs ] Dealt to ezed. [ 8s ] Dealt to Aslan [ Kh ] Aslan : Bet ($16) lkaer : Call ($16) JoeFi : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ 4s ] Dealt to JoeFi [ 4h ] Dealt to ezed. [ Jh ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ac ] Aslan : Bet ($16) lkaer : Raise ($32) JoeFi : Fold Aslan : Raise ($32) lkaer : Call ($16) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $23 | Side pot 1: $297 | Rake: $3 lkaer lost $121 [ 9d 5c Qh Ks 6c 6h 4s ] (a pair of sixes) sweet lou lost $1 (folded) [ 9c Kc 5s ] QuadAces lost $1 (folded) [ 2c 7d Qd ] Phil King lost $1 (folded) [ 3d 8h 6d ] JoeFi lost $73 (folded) [ 6s 9s 8d 5d 3c Qs 4h ] (high card queen) ezed. bet $5, collected $23, net +$18 (showed hand) [ Tc Js 2s Jd 7c 8s Jh ] (three of a kind, jacks) Aslan bet $121, collected $297, net +$176 (showed hand) [ 4d 8c 7h 3h Kd Kh Ac ] (a pair of kings) 10JQKA didn't bet ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15579074 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-20:05:25 (CST) Table "Virgin Isles" [1018] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079de] lkaer ($439.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$001026fd] sweet lou ($235.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$0010000a] QuadAces ($593.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($358.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00100fa1] JoeFi ($310.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00104358] ezed. ($502.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($167.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00102497] 10JQKA ($170.00 in chips) -- playing lkaer : Ante ($1) sweet lou: Ante ($1) QuadAces: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) JoeFi : Ante ($1) ezed. : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) 10JQKA : Ante ($1) Dealt to lkaer [ 3d ] Dealt to sweet lou [ 3s ] Dealt to QuadAces [ 6h ] Dealt to Phil King [ Kh ] Dealt to JoeFi [ 2s ] Dealt to ezed. [ 5c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4d ] Dealt to 10JQKA [ Ah ] Dealt to lkaer [ 7h ] Dealt to sweet lou [ Ad ] Dealt to QuadAces [ 9c ] Dealt to Phil King [ 4s ] Dealt to JoeFi [ 9h ] Dealt to ezed. [ 8h ] Dealt to Aslan [ Td ] Dealt to 10JQKA [ 4h ] Dealt to lkaer [ Qd ] Dealt to sweet lou [ 9s ] Dealt to QuadAces [ 3h ] Dealt to Phil King [ Qs ] Dealt to JoeFi [ Th ] Dealt to ezed. [ 3c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jh ] Dealt to 10JQKA [ 7c ] ezed. : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Raise ($8) 10JQKA : Fold lkaer : Raise ($16) sweet lou: Fold QuadAces: Fold Phil King: Fold JoeFi : Fold ezed. : Fold Aslan : Raise ($16) lkaer : Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ 5h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8d ] lkaer : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) lkaer : Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ 5s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6c ] lkaer : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ Ts ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5d ] lkaer : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) lkaer : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ Jc ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ac ] lkaer : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) lkaer : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $217 | Rake: $3 lkaer lost $105 (folded) [ 3d 7h Qd 5h 5s Ts Jc ] (a pair of fives) sweet lou lost $1 (folded) [ 3s Ad 9s ] QuadAces lost $1 (folded) [ 6h 9c 3h ] Phil King lost $1 (folded) [ Kh 4s Qs ] JoeFi lost $1 (folded) [ 2s 9h Th ] ezed. lost $5 (folded) [ 5c 8h 3c ] Aslan bet $121, collected $233, net +$112 [ 4d Td Jh 8d 6c 5d Ac ] (high card ace) 10JQKA lost $1 (folded) [ Ah 4h 7c ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15693589 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/28-21:49:10 (CST) Table "Bikar" [1028] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079de] lkaer ($356.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00101f47] all gone ($727.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00103f10] MAKEaRUN ($302.00 in chips) -- sitting out Seat # 4: [$00102457] antics ($2,187.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00105c21] BarryB ($431.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$001075df] Aslan ($234.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00102d6b] last try ($387.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($844.00 in chips) -- playing lkaer : Ante ($1) all gone: Ante ($1) antics : Ante ($1) BarryB : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) last try: Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) Dealt to lkaer [ Ad ] Dealt to all gone [ Tc ] Dealt to antics [ Kh ] Dealt to BarryB [ Qd ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9h ] Dealt to last try [ 5s ] Dealt to slex2 [ 6c ] Dealt to lkaer [ 9d ] Dealt to all gone [ Jh ] Dealt to antics [ 7c ] Dealt to BarryB [ Jd ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ks ] Dealt to last try [ 5d ] Dealt to slex2 [ 4c ] Dealt to lkaer [ 8h ] Dealt to all gone [ Qh ] Dealt to antics [ Kd ] Dealt to BarryB [ 4d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6d ] Dealt to last try [ 8d ] Dealt to slex2 [ 2c ] slex2 : Bring-in ($4) lkaer : Raise ($8) all gone: Call ($8) antics : Raise ($16) BarryB : Fold Aslan : Call ($16) last try: Fold slex2 : Call ($12) lkaer : Call ($8) all gone: Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ 3d ] Dealt to all gone [ 2h ] Dealt to antics [ 6s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to slex2 [ Th ] antics : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) slex2 : Call ($8) lkaer : Call ($8) all gone: Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ Ah ] Dealt to all gone [ Td ] Dealt to antics [ 9c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qs ] Dealt to slex2 [ 8c ] lkaer : Bet ($16) all gone: Call ($16) antics : Call ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) slex2 : Call ($32) lkaer : Raise ($32) all gone: Call ($32) antics : Call ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) slex2 : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ 8s ] Dealt to all gone [ 2d ] Dealt to antics [ 6h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9s ] Dealt to slex2 [ As ] lkaer : Bet ($16) all gone: Call ($16) antics : Call ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) slex2 : Fold lkaer : Call ($16) all gone: Call ($16) antics : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ 4s ] Dealt to all gone [ 7d ] Dealt to antics [ 4h ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qc ] lkaer : Check all gone: Check antics : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) lkaer : Raise ($32) all gone: Fold antics : Fold Aslan : Raise ($32) lkaer : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $556 | Rake: $3 lkaer lost $137 (folded) [ Ad 9d 8h 3d Ah 8s 4s ] (two pair, aces and eights) all gone lost $105 (folded) [ Tc Jh Qh 2h Td 2d 7d ] (two pair, tens and twos) MAKEaRUN didn't bet antics lost $105 (folded) [ Kh 7c Kd 6s 9c 6h 4h ] (two pair, kings and sixes) BarryB lost $1 (folded) [ Qd Jd 4d ] Aslan bet $153, collected $572, net +$419 [ 9h Ks 6d 2s Qs 9s Qc ] (two pair, queens and nines) last try lost $1 (folded) [ 5s 5d 8d ] slex2 lost $73 (folded) [ 6c 4c 2c Th 8c As ] (high card ace) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15694631 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/28-21:59:23 (CST) Table "Bikar" [1028] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079de] lkaer ($293.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100cd0] celtics ($200.00 in chips) -- sitting out Seat # 3: [$00103f10] MAKEaRUN ($302.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$00102457] antics ($2,002.00 in chips) -- sitting out Seat # 5: [$00105c21] BarryB ($453.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$001075df] Aslan ($532.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00102d6b] last try ($504.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($750.00 in chips) -- playing lkaer : Ante ($1) MAKEaRUN: Ante ($1) BarryB : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) last try: Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) Dealt to lkaer [ 2c ] Dealt to MAKEaRUN [ 6s ] Dealt to BarryB [ 4s ] Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Dealt to last try [ Th ] Dealt to slex2 [ 8d ] Dealt to lkaer [ 5h ] Dealt to MAKEaRUN [ 4d ] Dealt to BarryB [ 6h ] Dealt to Aslan [ Js ] Dealt to last try [ Qc ] Dealt to slex2 [ Jd ] Dealt to lkaer [ Kd ] Dealt to MAKEaRUN [ Kh ] Dealt to BarryB [ 2d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2h ] Dealt to last try [ 7c ] Dealt to slex2 [ 8h ] BarryB : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) last try: Fold slex2 : Call ($4) lkaer : Raise ($8) MAKEaRUN: Fold BarryB : Call ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) slex2 : Call ($4) Dealt to lkaer [ 8s ] Dealt to BarryB [ 6d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ac ] Dealt to slex2 [ 6c ] Aslan : Check slex2 : Check lkaer : Bet ($8) BarryB : Call ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) slex2 : Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ 3h ] Dealt to BarryB [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4h ] Dealt to slex2 [ Ad ] slex2 : Check lkaer : Bet ($16) BarryB : Call ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) slex2 : Fold lkaer : Raise ($32) BarryB : Fold Aslan : Raise ($32) lkaer : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ Ts ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8c ] Aslan : Bet ($16) lkaer : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ Jh ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7s ] Aslan : Bet ($16) lkaer : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $243 | Rake: $3 lkaer lost $97 (folded) [ 2c 5h Kd 8s 3h Ts Jh ] (high card king) celtics didn't bet MAKEaRUN lost $1 (folded) [ 6s 4d Kh ] antics didn't bet BarryB lost $33 (folded) [ 4s 6h 2d 6d 9h ] (a pair of sixes) Aslan bet $113, collected $259, net +$146 [ As Js 2h Ac 4h 8c 7s ] (a pair of aces) last try lost $1 (folded) [ Th Qc 7c ] slex2 lost $17 (folded) [ 8d Jd 8h 6c Ad ] (a pair of eights) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15695212 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/28-22:04:47 (CST) Table "Bikar" [1028] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079de] lkaer ($165.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100cd0] celtics ($197.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00103f10] MAKEaRUN ($294.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$00102457] antics ($1,999.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00105c21] BarryB ($590.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$001075df] Aslan ($635.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00102d6b] last try ($420.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($726.00 in chips) -- playing lkaer : Ante ($1) celtics : Ante ($1) MAKEaRUN: Ante ($1) antics : Ante ($1) BarryB : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1)
ast try: Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) BarryB : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) last try: Fold slex2 : Call ($4) lkaer : Raise ($8) celtics : Fold MAKEaRUN: Fold antics : Fold BarryB : Call ($4) Aslan : Raise ($12) slex2 : Call ($12) lkaer : Call ($8) BarryB : Fold Dealt to lkaer [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5h ] Dealt to slex2 [ 6s ] lkaer : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) slex2 : Call ($8) Dealt to lkaer [ 6c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7c ] Dealt to slex2 [ 2c ] lkaer : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) slex2 : Fold lkaer : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ 3d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qd ] lkaer : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) lkaer : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to lkaer [ 4c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9s ] lkaer : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) lkaer : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $277 | Rake: $3 lkaer lost $121 (folded) [ Qc 9c Ah 9h 6c 3d 4c ] (a pair of nines) celtics lost $1 (folded) [ 5c Kc As ] MAKEaRUN lost $1 (folded) [ 5s Qs Ac ] antics lost $1 (folded) [ 4h Td 8c ] BarryB lost $9 (folded) [ 2h Ad 4d ] Aslan bet $137, collected $293, net +$156 [ Js Jd 8h 5h 7c Qd 9s ] (a pair of jacks) last try lost $1 (folded) [ 2d 8s 7h ] slex2 lost $25 (folded) [ Jc Th 9d 6s 2c ] (high card jack) -----------------------------------------------------
Boyuk - Aslan hands (this is an administrator hand history which shows the players hole cards in the summary - these are being published based on the fact the hands were engaged in fraud):
----------------------------------------------------- Game #15584038 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-20:53:09 (CST) Table "Papeete" [3007] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001075df] Aslan ($447.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00101a83] Vector ($313.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($370.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00100c0e] Bigdog ($342.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($1) Vector : Ante ($1) Boyuk : Ante ($1) Bigdog : Ante ($1) Dealt to Aslan [ Jd ] Dealt to Vector [ 4d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 4c ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 3c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9d ] Dealt to Vector [ 5h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 2s ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 6h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6s ] Dealt to Vector [ Jh ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Kh ] Dealt to Bigdog [ Ac ] Aslan : Bring-in ($4) Vector : Fold Boyuk : Raise ($8) Bigdog : Fold Aslan : Raise ($12) Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Qh ] Aslan : Bet ($8) Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Kc ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ Kd ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Js ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $146 | Rake: $2 Aslan bet $89, collected $162, net +$73 [ Jd 9d 6s As 3s Kd ] (high card ace) Vector lost $1 (folded) [ 4d 5h Jh ] Boyuk lost $73 (folded) [ 4c 2s Kh Qh Kc Js ] (a pair of kings) Bigdog lost $1 (folded) [ 3c 6h Ac ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15584949 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-21:01:34 (CST) Table "Papeete" [3007] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001075df] Aslan ($752.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$001076ce] IZZY23 ($416.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($400.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($270.00 in chips) -- playing
Seat # 8: [$00100c0e] Bigdog ($147.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($1) IZZY23 : Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Boyuk : Ante ($1) Bigdog : Ante ($1) Dealt to Aslan [ 2d ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 4s ] Dealt to Piesang [ 5h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6h ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jh ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 7h ] Dealt to Piesang [ 8d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 9d ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 5c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Th ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 9c ] Dealt to Piesang [ Tc ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Ah ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 6d ] Bigdog : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) IZZY23 : Fold Piesang : Fold Boyuk : Raise ($8) Bigdog : Fold Aslan : Call ($4) Dealt to Aslan [ 4h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 3s ] Boyuk : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Td ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ Qc ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 4c ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ Ks ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6s ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $135 | Rake: $2 Aslan bet $81, collected $151, net +$70 [ 2d Jh Th 4h 2s Qc Ks ] (a pair of twos) IZZY23 lost $1 (folded) [ 4s 7h 9c ] Piesang lost $1 (folded) [ 5h 8d Tc ] Boyuk lost $65 (folded) [ 6h 9d Ah 3s Td 4c 6s ] (a pair of sixes) Bigdog lost $5 (folded) [ 9h 5c 6d ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15585140 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-21:03:17 (CST) Table "Papeete" [3007] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001075df] Aslan ($821.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$001076ce] IZZY23 ($386.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($429.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($204.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00100c0e] Bigdog ($344.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($1) IZZY23 : Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Boyuk : Ante ($1) Bigdog : Ante ($1) Dealt to Aslan [ Jd ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 9h ] Dealt to Piesang [ 6c ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Ks ] Dealt to Bigdog [ Qc ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qh ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 9d ] Dealt to Piesang [ 9c ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Td ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 7h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6h ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ 5s ] Dealt to Piesang [ 3d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 3c ] Dealt to Bigdog [ 6s ] Boyuk : Bring-in ($4) Bigdog : Fold Aslan : Raise ($8) IZZY23 : Call ($8) Piesang : Fold Boyuk : Call ($4) Dealt to Aslan [ 5h ] Dealt to IZZY23 [ Ad ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Th ] IZZY23 : Check Boyuk : Check Aslan : Bet ($8) IZZY23 : Call ($8) Boyuk : Raise ($16) Aslan : Raise ($16) IZZY23 : Fold Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ Ts ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 5c ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 8s ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ 3h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 7c ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $147 | Rake: $2 Aslan bet $81, collected $163, net +$82 [ Jd Qh 6h 5h Ts As 3h ] (high card ace) IZZY23 lost $17 (folded) [ 9h 9d 5s Ad ] Piesang lost $1 (folded) [ 6c 9c 3d ] Boyuk lost $65 (folded) [ Ks Td 3c Th 5c 8s 7c ] (a pair of tens) Bigdog lost $1 (folded) [ Qc 7h 6s ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15585947 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/27-21:10:27 (CST) Table "Papeete" [3007] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001075df] Aslan ($787.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($437.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$0010520a] MrMaverick ($231.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($637.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($82.00 in chips) -- playing Aslan : Ante ($1) ImTheCaptain: Ante ($1) MrMaverick: Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Boyuk : Ante ($1) Dealt to Aslan [ Td ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 3h ] Dealt to MrMaverick [ 2h ] Dealt to Piesang [ 9h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 7d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6c ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 9s ] Dealt to MrMaverick [ 8c ] Dealt to Piesang [ Ks ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Tc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7s ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 2s ] Dealt to MrMaverick [ As ] Dealt to Piesang [ Ad ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Th ] ImTheCaptain: Bring-in ($4) MrMaverick: Fold Piesang : Raise ($8) Boyuk : Raise ($16) Aslan : Raise ($24) ImTheCaptain: Fold Piesang : Fold Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ 8d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 8h ] Boyuk : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Aslan [ Jd ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6h ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ Jh ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Jc ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to Boyuk [ Kh ] Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Call All-in ($9) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $177 | Rake: $2 Aslan bet $89, collected $184, net +$95 (showed hand) [ Td 6c 7s 8d Jd Jh 3s ] (a pair of jacks) ImTheCaptain lost $5 (folded) [ 3h 9s 2s ] MrMaverick lost $1 (folded) [ 2h 8c As ] Piesang lost $9 (folded) [ 9h Ks Ad ] Boyuk lost $82 (showed hand) [ 7d Tc Th 8h 6h Jc Kh ] (a pair of tens) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15697071 - $15/$30 Hold'em - 2000/07/28-22:21:07 (CST) Table "Rum Cay" [1012] (real money) -- Seat 5 is the button Seat # 1: [$00105c2a] buzzard09 ($654.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$001075df] Aslan ($245.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001035dc] dergy ($900.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00103a13] shuelry ($1,030.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 9: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($616.00 in chips) -- playing shuelry : Post Small Blind ($10) Boyuk : Post Big Blind ($15) Dealt to shuelry [ Qs ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6d ] Dealt to buzzard09 [ 7c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ts ] Dealt to dergy [ 5s ] Dealt to shuelry [ Ac ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 6h ] Dealt to buzzard09 [ 3s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6s ] Dealt to dergy [ Jd ] buzzard09: Fold Aslan : Raise ($30) dergy : Fold shuelry : Call ($20) Boyuk : Raise ($30) Aslan : Raise ($30) shuelry : Call ($30) Boyuk : Call ($15) *** FLOP *** : [ 8s 8h 7s ] shuelry : Check Boyuk : Bet ($15) Aslan : Raise ($30) shuelry : Call ($30) Boyuk : Call ($15) *** TURN *** : [ 8s 8h 7s ] [ 2c ] shuelry : Check Boyuk : Bet ($30) Aslan : Call ($30) shuelry : Fold *** RIVER *** : [ 8s 8h 7s 2c ] [ Tc ] Boyuk : Bet ($30) Aslan : Raise ($60) Boyuk : Raise ($60) Aslan : Raise ($60) Boyuk : Call ($30) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $568 | Rake: $2 Board: [ 8s 8h 7s 2c Tc ] buzzard09 didn't bet (folded) [ 7c 3s ] (two pair, eights and sevens) Aslan bet $240, collected $568, net +$328 (showed hand) [ Ts 6s ] (two pair, tens and eights) dergy didn't bet (folded) [ 5s Jd ] (a pair of eights) shuelry lost $90 (folded) [ Qs Ac ] (a pair of eights) Boyuk lost $240 [ 6d 6h ] (two pair, eights and sixes) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15699151 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/28-22:38:54 (CST) Table "Bikar" [1028] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($382.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100cd0] celtics ($273.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105cbb] axelfreed ($137.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001075df] Aslan ($372.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00105c21] BarryB ($579.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00100d0e] elpanavic ($209.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00102d6b] last try ($670.00 in chips) -- sitting out Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($605.00 in chips) -- playing Boyuk : Ante ($1) celtics : Ante ($1) axelfreed: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) BarryB : Ante ($1) elpanavic: Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) Dealt to Boyuk [ 3c ] Dealt to celtics [ 5h ] Dealt to axelfreed [ 8c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9s ] Dealt to BarryB [ Jh ] Dealt to elpanavic [ 2s ] Dealt to slex2 [ 9h ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 7h ] Dealt to celtics [ Ad ] Dealt to axelfreed [ 2d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Js ] Dealt to BarryB [ Th ] Dealt to elpanavic [ 5c ] Dealt to slex2 [ 3d ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 9c ] Dealt to celtics [ 4s ] Dealt to axelfreed [ Kd ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ts ] Dealt to BarryB [ Qd ] Dealt to elpanavic [ 8s ] Dealt to slex2 [ 3h ] slex2 : Bring-in ($4) Boyuk : Call ($4) celtics : Fold axelfreed: Fold Aslan : Raise ($8) BarryB : Call ($8) elpanavic: Fold slex2 : Call ($4) Boyuk : Raise ($12) Aslan : Raise ($16) BarryB : Fold slex2 : Fold Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Boyuk [ 7d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6c ] Aslan : Bet ($8) Boyuk : Raise ($16) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to Boyuk [ 5d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4h ] Aslan : Check Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Boyuk [ Jd ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5s ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Call ($16) Dealt to Boyuk [ 2c ] Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Raise ($32) Aslan : Raise ($32) Boyuk : Call ($16) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $324 | Rake: $3 Boyuk lost $153 [ 3c 7h 9c 7d 5d Jd 2c ] (a pair of sevens) celtics lost $1 (folded) [ 5h Ad 4s ] axelfreed lost $1 (folded) [ 8c 2d Kd ] Aslan bet $153, collected $324, net +$171 (showed hand) [ 9s Js Ts 6c 4h 5s As ] (a flush, ace high) BarryB lost $9 (folded) [ Jh Th Qd ] elpanavic lost $1 (folded) [ 2s 5c 8s ] last try didn't bet slex2 lost $9 (folded) [ 9h 3d 3h ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15699389 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/28-22:40:51 (CST) Table "Bikar" [1028] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001079e8] Boyuk ($229.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100cd0] celtics ($272.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001075df] Aslan ($543.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00105c21] BarryB ($570.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00100d0e] elpanavic ($208.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$00102d6b] last try ($670.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($596.00 in chips) -- playing Boyuk : Ante ($1) celtics : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) BarryB : Ante ($1) elpanavic: Ante ($1) last try: Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) Dealt to Boyuk [ 8h ] Dealt to celtics [ 3d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6s ] Dealt to BarryB [ Jh ] Dealt to elpanavic [ 4s ] Dealt to last try [ Ad ] Dealt to slex2 [ 7s ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 7c ] Dealt to celtics [ 5c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9d ] Dealt to BarryB [ 4c ] Dealt to elpanavic [ Js ] Dealt to last try [ Kh ] Dealt to slex2 [ Jd ] Dealt to Boyuk [ 2s ] Dealt to celtics [ 2c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Kc ] Dealt to BarryB [ Ks ] Dealt to elpanavic [ Tc ] Dealt to last try [ 8s ] Dealt to slex2 [ Qc ] celtics : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Raise ($8) BarryB : Fold elpanavic: Fold last try: Fold slex2 : Fold Boyuk : Call ($8) celtics : Fold Dealt to Boyuk [ Td ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5d ] Aslan : Bet ($8) Boyuk : Call ($8) Dealt to Boyuk [ Th ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9c ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Boyuk [ 3s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3c ] Boyuk : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to Boyuk [ 7h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7d ] Boyuk : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) Boyuk : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $104 | Rake: $3 Boyuk lost $49 (folded) [ 8h 7c 2s Td Th 3s 7h ] (two pair, tens and sevens) celtics lost $5 (folded) [ 3d 5c 2c ] Aslan bet $65, collected $120, net +$55 [ 6s 9d Kc 5d 9c 3c 7d ] (a pair of nines) BarryB lost $1 (folded) [ Jh 4c Ks ] elpanavic lost $1 (folded) [ 4s Js Tc ] last try lost $1 (folded) [ Ad Kh 8s ] slex2 lost $1 (folded) [ 7s Jd Qc ] -----------------------------------------------------
viola - Aslan hands (this is an administrator hand history which shows the players hole cards in the summary - these are being published based on the fact the hands were engaged in fraud):
----------------------------------------------------- Game #15036922 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/22-22:19:13 (CST) Table "Guadeloupe" [2324] (real money) Seat # 1: [$00104832] RiverGuy ($510.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100d24] Apple22 ($213.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($537.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001076f1] viola ($277.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001067aa] JeffreyC ($202.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($392.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($745.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($439.00 in chips) -- playing RiverGuy: Ante ($1) Apple22 : Ante ($1) ImTheCaptain: Ante ($1) viola : Ante ($1) JeffreyC: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Dealt to RiverGuy [ As ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Ah ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ Jc ] Dealt to viola [ 2s ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 4c ] Dealt to Phil King [ Ad ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5d ] Dealt to Piesang [ Qd ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ Th ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 9s ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 7d ] Dealt to viola [ Ts ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 9c ] Dealt to Phil King [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to Piesang [ Kc ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ 4h ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 3d ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ Tc ] Dealt to viola [ Qc ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ Qh ] Dealt to Phil King [ Kh ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ks ] Dealt to Piesang [ 8c ] Apple22 : Bring-in ($4) ImTheCaptain: Fold viola : Raise ($8) JeffreyC: Fold Phil King: Fold Aslan : Raise ($16) Piesang : Fold RiverGuy: Fold Apple22 : Fold viola : Raise ($16) Aslan : Raise ($16) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ Js ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5s ] Aslan : Bet ($8) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 7h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2h ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 7c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8d ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ Jd ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9d ] viola : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $217 | Rake: $3 RiverGuy lost $1 (folded) [ As Th 4h ] Apple22 lost $5 (folded) [ Ah 9s 3d ] ImTheCaptain lost $1 (folded) [ Jc 7d Tc ] viola lost $105 (folded) [ 2s Ts Qc Js 7h 7c Jd ] (two pair, jacks and sevens) JeffreyC lost $1 (folded) [ 4c 9c Qh ] Phil King lost $1 (folded) [ Ad 9h Kh ] Aslan bet $121, collected $233, net +$112 [ 5d 3s Ks 5s 2h 8d 9d ] (a pair of fives) Piesang lost $1 (folded) [ Qd Kc 8c ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15036095 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/22-22:11:04 (CST) Table "Guadeloupe" [2324] (real money) Seat # 1: [$00104832] RiverGuy ($438.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100d24] Apple22 ($222.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($545.00 in chips) -- sitting out Seat # 4: [$001076f1] viola ($441.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001067aa] JeffreyC ($251.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($587.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00102dc8] Piesang ($443.00 in chips) -- playing RiverGuy: Ante ($1) Apple22 : Ante ($1) viola : Ante ($1) JeffreyC: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Piesang : Ante ($1) Dealt to RiverGuy [ Th ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 6c ] Dealt to viola [ 6h ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 3s ] Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Dealt to Piesang [ Jh ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ 8c ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 9d ] Dealt to viola [ 9s ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 2h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7d ] Dealt to Piesang [ Qd ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ Kh ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Qs ] Dealt to viola [ Ad ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 9h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5s ] Dealt to Piesang [ 3c ] Piesang : Bring-in ($4) RiverGuy: Call ($4) Apple22 : Fold viola : Raise ($8) JeffreyC: Fold Aslan : Raise ($16) Piesang : Fold RiverGuy: Fold viola : Raise ($16) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 4c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4d ] viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 4s ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ah ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Raise ($32) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ Kd ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2c ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 8d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jc ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Call ($16) *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $347 | Rake: $3 RiverGuy lost $5 (folded) [ Th 8c Kh ] Apple22 lost $1 (folded) [ 6c 9d Qs ] ImTheCaptain didn't bet viola lost $169 [ 6h 9s Ad 4c 4s Kd 8d ] (a pair of fours) JeffreyC lost $1 (folded) [ 3s 2h 9h ] Aslan bet $169, collected $347, net +$178 (showed hand) [ As 7d 5s 4d Ah 2c Jc ] (a pair of aces) Piesang lost $5 (folded) [ Jh Qd 3c ] ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15037278 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/22-22:22:33 (CST) Table "Guadeloupe" [2324] (real money) Seat # 1: [$00104832] RiverGuy ($518.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100d24] Apple22 ($206.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($534.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001076f1] viola ($106.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001067aa] JeffreyC ($191.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($389.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($927.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$001076e6] slex2 ($400.00 in chips) -- playing RiverGuy: Ante ($1) Apple22 : Ante ($1) ImTheCaptain: Ante ($1) viola : Ante ($1) JeffreyC: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) slex2 : Ante ($1) Dealt to RiverGuy [ 4s ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Kd ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 4h ] Dealt to viola [ 4d ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 2d ] Dealt to Phil King [ 5s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3s ] Dealt to slex2 [ Ah ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ 7c ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 7d ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ Ac ] Dealt to viola [ Td ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 3d ] Dealt to Phil King [ Jh ] Dealt to Aslan [ Tc ] Dealt to slex2 [ Qh ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ As ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Qd ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 6h ] Dealt to viola [ 8c ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ Jd ] Dealt to Phil King [ 2s ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qc ] Dealt to slex2 [ 7s ] Phil King: Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Raise ($8) slex2 : Fold RiverGuy: Fold Apple22 : Call ($8) ImTheCaptain: Fold viola : Call ($8) JeffreyC: Call ($8) Phil King: Fold Dealt to Apple22 [ 6s ] Dealt to viola [ Ks ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ Kc ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ad ] Aslan : Bet ($8) Apple22 : Fold viola : Raise ($16) JeffreyC: Fold Aslan : Raise ($16) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 6c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9c ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 6d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jc ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Raise ($32) viola : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 7h ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3h ] viola : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $217 | Rake: $3 RiverGuy lost $1 (folded) [ 4s 7c As ] Apple22 lost $9 (folded) [ Kd 7d Qd 6s ] ImTheCaptain lost $1 (folded) [ 4h Ac 6h ] viola lost $97 (folded) [ 4d Td 8c Ks 6c 6d 7h ] (a pair of sixes) JeffreyC lost $9 (folded) [ 2d 3d Jd Kc ] Phil King lost $5 (folded) [ 5s Jh 2s ] Aslan bet $113, collected $233, net +$120 [ 3s Tc Qc Ad 9c Jc 3h ] (a pair of threes) slex2 lost $1 (folded) [ Ah Qh 7s ] ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15037153 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/22-22:21:20 (CST) Table "Guadeloupe" [2324] (real money) Seat # 1: [$00104832] RiverGuy ($519.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$00100d24] Apple22 ($207.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$00105982] ImTheCaptain ($535.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$001076f1] viola ($171.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$001067aa] JeffreyC ($196.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($390.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($856.00 in chips) -- playing RiverGuy: Ante ($1) Apple22 : Ante ($1) ImTheCaptain: Ante ($1) viola : Ante ($1) JeffreyC: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Dealt to RiverGuy [ 2h ] Dealt to Apple22 [ Jc ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ Ah ] Dealt to viola [ Ts ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 8h ] Dealt to Phil King [ Qh ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ 3h ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 9h ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 4d ] Dealt to viola [ 5s ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 7h ] Dealt to Phil King [ Ad ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9s ] Dealt to RiverGuy [ Qc ] Dealt to Apple22 [ 7d ] Dealt to ImTheCaptain [ 8s ] Dealt to viola [ 8d ] Dealt to JeffreyC [ 2d ] Dealt to Phil King [ 7s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7c ] JeffreyC: Bring-in ($4) Phil King: Fold Aslan : Raise ($8) RiverGuy: Fold Apple22 : Fold ImTheCaptain: Fold viola : Call ($8) JeffreyC: Fold Dealt to viola [ Js ] Dealt to Aslan [ As ] Aslan : Bet ($8) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ Kc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4s ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 3s ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qd ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Raise ($32) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 3d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jd ] Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $136 | Rake: $3 RiverGuy lost $1 (folded) [ 2h 3h Qc ] Apple22 lost $1 (folded) [ Jc 9h 7d ] ImTheCaptain lost $1 (folded) [ Ah 4d 8s ] viola lost $65 (folded) [ Ts 5s 8d Js Kc 3s 3d ] (a pair of threes) JeffreyC lost $5 (folded) [ 8h 7h 2d ] Phil King lost $1 (folded) [ Qh Ad 7s ] Aslan bet $81, collected $152, net +$71 [ 2s 9s 7c As 4s Qd Jd ] (high card ace) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15244227 - $4/$8 7-card stud - 2000/07/24-19:37:51 (CST) Table "Jolly Beach" [1294] (real money) Seat # 2: [$001076f1] viola ($273.50 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($52.50 in chips) -- playing viola : Ante ($0.50) Aslan : Ante ($0.50) Dealt to viola [ 2d ] Dealt to Aslan [ Jc ] Dealt to viola [ Ks ] Dealt to Aslan [ 3d ] Dealt to viola [ 4s ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6s ] viola : Bring-in ($2) Aslan : Raise ($4) viola : Call ($2) Dealt to viola [ Qh ] Dealt to Aslan [ 9h ] viola : Bet ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) Dealt to viola [ As ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qc ] viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) viola : Raise ($16) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 2c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4c ] viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ 9c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 7d ] viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise All-in ($12) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $96 | Rake: $1 viola lost $48.50 (folded) [ 2d Ks 4s Qh As 2c 9c ] (a pair of twos) Aslan bet $52.50, collected $100, net +$47.50 [ Jc 3d 6s 9h Qc 4c 7d ] (high card queen) ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15244134 - $4/$8 7-card stud - 2000/07/24-19:37:11 (CST) Table "Jolly Beach" [1294] (real money) Seat # 2: [$001076f1] viola ($284.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001075df] Aslan ($43.00 in chips) -- playing viola : Ante ($0.50) Aslan : Ante ($0.50) Dealt to viola [ 8c ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to viola [ Jc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4d ] Dealt to viola [ 8d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 5c ] Aslan : Bring-in ($2) viola : Call ($2) Dealt to viola [ Kc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8s ] viola : Bet ($4) Aslan : Raise ($8) viola : Call ($4) Dealt to viola [ Js ] Dealt to Aslan [ 4s ] viola : Check Aslan : Bet ($8) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $20 | Rake: $1 viola lost $10.50 (folded) [ 8c Jc 8d Kc Js ] (two pair, jacks and eights) Aslan bet $18.50, collected $28, net +$9.50 [ 2s 4d 5c 8s 4s ] (a pair of fours) ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Game #15245240 - $8/$16 7-card stud - 2000/07/24-19:45:27 (CST) Table "Virgin Isles" [1018] (real money) Seat # 1: [$001076f1] viola ($260.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 2: [$001075df] Aslan ($228.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 3: [$0010657f] Sweeti ($389.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 4: [$0010560b] Agent ($470.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 5: [$00102d6b] last try ($1,001.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 6: [$00100ee6] harry ($541.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 7: [$001034ff] Mr Nice Guy ($167.00 in chips) -- playing Seat # 8: [$00105e4a] Phil King ($806.00 in chips) -- playing viola : Ante ($1) Aslan : Ante ($1) Sweeti : Ante ($1) Agent : Ante ($1) last try: Ante ($1) harry : Ante ($1) Mr Nice Guy: Ante ($1) Phil King: Ante ($1) Dealt to viola [ Kd ] Dealt to Aslan [ Qs ] Dealt to Sweeti [ Kc ] Dealt to Agent [ 5s ] Dealt to last try [ Ts ] Dealt to harry [ 4h ] Dealt to Mr Nice Guy [ 5h ] Dealt to Phil King [ Qd ] Dealt to viola [ Kh ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2d ] Dealt to Sweeti [ 9d ] Dealt to Agent [ 3d ] Dealt to last try [ 3h ] Dealt to harry [ 8s ] Dealt to Mr Nice Guy [ 9c ] Dealt to Phil King [ 7c ] Dealt to viola [ 2c ] Dealt to Aslan [ Js ] Dealt to Sweeti [ As ] Dealt to Agent [ 4s ] Dealt to last try [ 8h ] Dealt to harry [ 6s ] Dealt to Mr Nice Guy [ Jd ] Dealt to Phil King [ Qh ] viola : Bring-in ($4) Aslan : Call ($4) Sweeti : Raise ($8) Agent : Fold last try: Fold harry : Fold Mr Nice Guy: Fold Phil King: Fold viola : Call ($4) Aslan : Raise ($12) Sweeti : Raise ($16) viola : Call ($16) Aslan : Raise ($16) Sweeti : Call ($8) viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ Td ] Dealt to Aslan [ 2s ] Dealt to Sweeti [ 3s ] Sweeti : Check viola : Bet ($8) Aslan : Raise ($16) Sweeti : Fold viola : Call ($8) Dealt to viola [ Qc ] Dealt to Aslan [ 6c ] viola : Bet ($16) Aslan : Call ($16) Dealt to viola [ 4d ] Dealt to Aslan [ 8c ] viola : Check Aslan : Check Dealt to viola [ Jh ] Dealt to Aslan [ Ks ] viola : Check Aslan : Bet ($16) viola : Fold Aslan : Winner -- doesn't show cards *** SUMMARY *** Pot: $165 | Rake: $3 viola lost $65 (folded) [ Kd Kh 2c Td Qc 4d Jh ] (a pair of kings) Aslan bet $81, collected $181, net +$100 [ Qs 2d Js 2s 6c 8c Ks ] (a pair of twos) Sweeti lost $33 (folded) [ Kc 9d As 3s ] Agent lost $1 (folded) [ 5s 3d 4s ] last try lost $1 (folded) [ Ts 3h 8h ] harry lost $1 (folded) [ 4h 8s 6s ] Mr Nice Guy lost $1 (folded) [ 5h 9c Jd ] Phil King lost $1 (folded) [ Qd 7c Qh ] -----------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 2:37 PM Subject: A Post on Our Forum
> Someone has just posted on our Internet Forum that you have confiscated $2500 > of his money for "transferring funds". It is causing consternation. Could you > please put a post on that forum regarding this? DS
----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <.support@paradisepoker.com> Received: from rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (rly-yh01.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.33]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:02:22 -0400 Received: from cardroom3.paradisepoker.com (cardroom3.paradisepoker.com [209.203.205.20]) by rly-yh01.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:01:15 -0400 Message-ID: <106201bffb4b$9b311f70$2ccfcbd1@mark> Reply-To: "Paradise Poker" <.support@paradisepoker.com> From: "Paradise Poker" <.support@paradisepoker.com> To: <.Dsklansky@aol.com> References: <.c8.84fe224.26b73d8a@aol.com> Subject: Re: A Post on Our Forum Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:01:12 -0600 Organization: Paradise Poker MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_105F_01BFFB19.503359C0"
Yet a third smart cookie.
The e-mail from paradise sounds like a lawyer's speech - convincing on the surface, empty when one starts to dig. I will reply to it here in the morning. Please, don't draw any conclusions until you see my reply.
good luck
ASLAN, i am a lawyer and i have been working with the governmental authorities here and in Costa Rica, it is obvious to me that Sklansky and others are paid molls by paradise poker. I will spend whatever it takes to close this operation down, they have STOLE millions now fro unsuspecting players around the world.
Thank you for that post (and the one below where you are organizing mercenaries to invade Paradise in Costa Rica.) It may have been just what Ray Springfield needed to jolt him completely back to his senses. It is always nice when that happens.
I don't know what Sklansky is talking about.I haven't read all the laatest threads, though. I've been pretty nice lately, an haven't posted very much. I don't understand it. Of course Sklansky has begun to post scarcstically about Ed Hill, too.
I only meant to say that if you saw how wacko some of those who are on the same side of the fence as you are, it might give you pause and it might make you jump over that fence.
Well, I believe that there are wackos on both sides. I've been trying to be open minded on this lately. Certainly Matt is extreme, but wildbill is too. These are just two examples.
The mercenary note is extreme. I bet these are posted by an online supporter trying to discredit critics. Its either that, or a truly dangerous mind exists out there. Of course, in a society (ours) where cutting someone off on the highway is justifiable logic for shooting people...one never knows.
Your state and BAR number please (which is public knowlegde if you have one?) Or a place to check your reference. We know what your failure to back this up means... bluff.
First you are a commando and now you are a lawyer...what the hell is that? So you think its right for people to defraud businesses and credit card companies so the rest of us pay higher fees? If you ask me Aslan should consider himself lucky that he probably won't be the subject of a criminal investigation since the credit card companies would probably be forced to prosecute him from Costa Rica. Further you are a lawyer, someone that uses evidence to back your claims and should believe in that fact that evidence should decide the case. Well I don't think too many people on here would say that Aslan has proven his case better than Paradise. Maybe Paradise should do some follow up later to assure people that they did indeed get fraudulent charges made against them, but otherwise I don't think too many people on this site will shed any tears for Aslan. However I would love to see what kind of defense he can concoct overnight. Maybe he is busy calling up Alan Dershowitz...
"If the collusion don't stick you must aquit..."
not much of message, but if Aslan has the time and money to legally defend himself, he should file in US courts. An international incident should be fun!.
I did look at the hand histories and some of them do look suspecting but the same things were accussed of me by paradise when I made a killing one night against one guy playing heads up. I'm not going to go into details but simply paradise accussed me of knowing this "other person" and that the money lost to me was stolen. To make a long story short, I said screw you to paradise and just cashed everything I had out. They subtracted my winnings from that player. I have never played there ever again. I think they are crooked.
Aslan,
You're saved mate, neal ross is on your case.. I suggest your use Deja news to look at this dudes posting history on RGP before contracting any of his "services"...
d.
Why bother. First hand I read shows lkaer throwing away an ace-high flush when your board isn't showing as much as a single pair. When I first started reading this I genuinely thought you might be the victim. Instead, you should be locked up.
Don't waste your time. If they truly have network logs as well showing that all of these users came from the same machine, I suggest you start looking for countries without extradition treaties in place. The hand histories themselves wouldn't convict you, but network logs would. That becomes indisputable.
Boy, with all these posting site traffic must be great. More ad revenue anyone?? J/K
I have read the posts here and on rpg, and also played on both planet and paradise poker extensively and I have one conclusion.
Yes, the software is hackable and there is certainly collusion going on at both sites.
Because of these problems which exist I believe that internet poker sites are not providing the service which they are suppose to. As a company they have not supplied the service which we as players were expecting when we typed in out credit card numbers.
As a result many players which I know playing on those sites have refused to pay the charges since they feel cheated. Their argument was that they were not given the service which they paid for.
Overall I have only lost a few hundred dollars on these sites and therefore I just paid my bill but for those who have lost large amounts and suspect cheating by other players and collusion, I think they should think twice about what kind of service they got for their money.
In one of your posts you had expressed concern that every computer in a college dormitory could have the same address or something like that and that it could lead Paradise astray to unfounded suspicions. Did their E-mail to me alleviate that concern?
At the time, the forum was under the impression that Aslan was accused of colluding (and it turned out he's a sorry excuse for a credit card thief). It looked like he was in trouble simply because he was on the same subnet (or local area network, or sharing the same IP) as his buddies. Obviously, Paradise is looking beyond that. I'm under the impression they do not throw accusations easily.
It is my belief that the high limit hold'em games are on the square now. I'm not so sure about $10-20 games a couple of months back, I saw some weird shit at the time Ed Hill lost his bankroll and I lost a few grand too many myself during that period.
Angelina Fekali
Though you are killing the games, you mention that they were perhaps cheating for a little while, a few months ago, when you had a couple of thousand drop off. And they say I have an ego.
.
It's was not the losing, it was the weirdest suckouts that raised eyebrows. Trust me on this. But I do have some ego, sure :)
Angelina Fekali
What's your explanation for the suckouts?
I have none. I only have theories and they are all shaky. I'm not claiming the games back then were rigged. I'm just saying I'm not sure.
Angelina Fekali
It is important to realize that if someone knew what cards were coming, either through hacking or a renegade employee, many hands would appear to be rigged when they were not. The same, to a lesser extent would be true if there was collusion. Unlike many who took my survey, I have never said that I thought the chances of these other problems were almost nil, though people seem to think I did. Again, I only entered the fray because I was trying to show those who thought it likely that Paradise was knowingly cheating, weren't thinking clearly.
But they were. Surely David Sklansky doesn't believe that organized crime is a myth?
I am saying that poker sites would make LESS money if they cheated. Therefore a site owned by organized crime would not cheat.
Also, I was at the tables witnessing Ed Hill getting his bankroll mowed down. Remember, those were the $10-20 days. I'm not surprised he snapped.
Angelina Fekali
Pretty much. It sounds like they are using the MAC address on the network card, which is unique, or they are generating a GUID in software when the client program is installed. If they are doing something like that, then they can positively identify every machine that plays, without ambiguity.
However, they also mentioned that they check the IP addresses, and those can be the same for a large number of computers. That said, my opinion of their technical prowesss is currently pretty high, so I'm sure they've considered that.
I have a NAT going at home and I've noticed that when I'm playing that both the internal and external addresses are listed on the title bar in the connected from: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/yyy.yyy.yyy.yyy. This combination must be unique.
Not necessarily. If you are using DHCP and dynamically assigning internal IP's, it wouldn't necessarily be true. It would have to be unique, but only so long as the computer was on. Depending on how your DHCP server was configured, different computers could use the same IP during different sessions (at different times).
Or you can manually cancel your DHCP lease to force the server to give you another one. If you're a scammer, you'd be doing that constantly to keep 'em guessing. So I suspect that Paradise is recording the MAC address of the network card or generating a GUID on the client machine and storing it in the registry. If in fact the dual-boot thing won't let you create two paying accounts on one machine, then they'd have to be going for the MAC address. A really determined little thief could swap out network cards with each different account, but that sounds like a lot of work. Mind you, little weenie hackers seem to have endless amounts of time to monkey around with this stuff.
I apologize for the delay. It was a long letter.
First, I want to say that I am surprized that so many inteligent people will jump to any conclusion before hearing both sides. Even before paradise's letter people were siding either with me or with paradise without even knowing what the real issue was. After their letter, about 5 people already made their verdict. Have anyone of you heard about "presumption of innocence"? Paradise presented their arguments. They seem to be very sure of themselves. Every time in court DA is sure of his evidence, nevertheless, a person is often acquitted. Paradise's letter sounds like a lawyer's speech - a lot of speculations, conclusions and emotions. it is never "cheating" but "BLATANT cheating", etc. My language is not as eloquent so let's go to bare facts:
Paradise alleges: .1. Three persons have created three acounts on the same computer.
.2. Deposits were made on these 3 accounts from, apparently, stolen credit cards
.3. Each of them lost $1200 plus one lost additional $300 in the period from July 22nd to July 28th
.4. They always played at the same table as me.
.5. Their play was wild, they raised with nothing, often folding on the river.
.6. I also played wild and bluffed a lot
.7. I won their money
.8. Paradise can link my computer to theirs. "What makes this fraudulent action so easily caught is not only the obvious hand histories but our technical data that 100% verifies that ALL these accounts are directly related as they have historically shared the same physical computer! These individuals all know each other. We have undeniable technical records that enable us to track every individual machine that logs in... this allows us to determine related accounts for security reasons (mostly. This is an invaluable tool."
.9. Paradise intends to return money to credit card owners.
That is all that's left from this long letter after stripping the dressing. Now let me answer.
1. It is impossible to create more than one real money account on one computer, regardless of what name you use. Anyone who does not beleive me can try it. When you go to cashier and click "Setup account for real money" you will get an message saying that you already have an account. Either paradise lies about it or they (an employee of theirs?) knew about it from the beginning and gave a special permission. I will not try to guess the reasons but it is a major discrepancy.
2. Possible but two thing do not sound true. First, this means that paradise do not verify name and address on the card - a major security flaw. Paradise boasts of their security so much that it is hard to beleive that they do not do it. Second, it takes more than 3 days (last play was on 28th), more than a week for a statement to arrive to a person, dispute form received and signed, then for dispute request to arrive to paradise.
3. Any of people here lost $600 in a day? For 2 days in a row? It happens. I lost $600 on my first day on paradise (can be proven by histories)
4. I mostly play 8-16 stud. They played only 8-16 stud. There are only one or two tables of 8-16 stud and I was usually sitting on both. So it is natural that we were at the same table.
5. I cannot try to explain someone else's play. I have seen only one realy strange case in histories when a person folded a flash but it could just be a wrong button pressed. Other cases are loose-aggresive but nothing really unusual.
6. I try to adjust my play to my opponents. IMO, my play was the correct play at the moment. The fact that I won supports my opinion.
7. This is simply not true. I won some hands from them, won some from others. They won some hands from me (e.g. 14924549, 14922044), won some from others. Paradise sent to David only few selected histories. In the end, I was ahead but I won as much money from others as from them. If someone analyzed all histories he would come to the same conclusion.
8. Everything bfore that was speculation. This is the most serious argument. I asked Paradise to clarify it and to produce records. They have replied and this time they do not claim that my account shared the same physical computer but say that: "Your machines are linked by IP address" (verbatim) This statement is, at least, beleivable but explanable. I use free providers as ISPs - Juno, Bluelight, Altavista (whoever is faster at a moment). If the computer with these 3 players was using the same provider in the same geographical area their is a good chance that at some point he would have the same IP address as me. Note, that paradise does not say that it happened at the same time but rather that at some point (historically) I was connected from the same IP address as these people were now. In any case, I ask Paradise to publish these connection records here or in an e-mail.
9. This is irrelevent but paradise can only use money to compensate their losses since credit cards compaines will take money from paradise account automatically. So they do intend to put my money into their pockets.
I hope I addressed all points. The fact remains that Paradise, based solely on their conclusions, without asking me a single question, has confiscated my account. Next time you win a lot can they get suspicious and do the same to you?
I propose that an arbiter is chosen to decide this case. Paradise should give all their records about me and these players (hand histories and connection records) to him and he should make a decision: 1. should my account be closed as a security precaution 2. Should my money be confiscated by paradise
I will accept Sklansky as an arbiter and agree to abide by his decision if paradise agrees to the same. I see it as the only way to prove my innocence.
I didn't see a single rebuttal in here. You just questioned their security policies and suggested possible explanations for some things. The problem is that, while any one fact may be a coincidence or explainable, when you put them all together it looks pretty damning to me. You are suggesting that the same person who played so badly that he lost the maximum to you also just happens to be on the same router as you somewhere in the States, AND two other players who also lost the maximum daily amount to you are also in the same geographic area, but unknown to you. AND all three of these players just happen to be using stolen credit cards.
The hand histories are very damning. The very first one I read had a player betting into you all the way to the river, then folding a nut flush to a bet. Not a chance. Sure, if that were the only flaky hand between you and that person I might write it off as a mouse click error, but after seeing a handful of similar strange plays by the same person, I'm sure that's not the case.
And regarding having two client programs on the same physical computer... Off the top of my head I can think of one simple way to do it - Have a dual-boot machine with two operating systems on it, and install one client on each.
And BTW, the standard of guilt here is not 'reasonable doubt', so don't bother arguing that the evidence is only circumstantial. This is more akin to a civil action, in which case the standard of proof is merely a preponderance of evidence. And so far, this case looks open-and-shut.
I am not qualified to be an arbiter in this case and don't have time to do the necessary studying to become qualified. Besides, all of your defenders are having a heart attack that you asked me, since they claim I am far from neutral. So I appreciate the request and appreciate also that you consider me unbiased. I would also like to say that you are obviously very intelligent based on your postings here, and if you are a thief it is not because you have no choice.
Thank you for the compliment. If I was a thief would I have asked for an arbiter? It is unfortunate that you could not do that. Perhaps Malcolm will agree to it? How about that? Or any well-known person that knows stud?
>>I didn't see a single rebuttal in here. You just questioned their security policies and suggested possible explanations for some things.<< It is impossible to PROVE one's innocence. I have shown in my e-mail that paradise's evidence is very inconclusive, and sometimes simpley false.
>>You are suggesting that the same person who played so badly that he lost the maximum to you << And lost to others, and won from me. There is no real pattern.
>also just happens to be on the same router as you somewhere in the States, AND two other players who also lost the maximum daily amount to you are also in the same geographic area, but unknown to you. AND all three of these players just happen to be using stolen credit cards. <<
Did you read previous postings? According to paradise all three players played on the same computer so they would have the same IP address. As far as we know it even was one person under 3 identities. My geographic area include about 15 mil. people I would guess that millions of people use free ISP, especially Juno and Bluelight, So it is entirely possible and not improbable that at some point in the past I accessed the same ISP that the other person.
>>The hand histories are very damning. The very first one I read had a player betting into you all the way to the river, then folding a nut flush to a bet. Not a chance. Sure, if that were the only flaky hand between you and that person I might write it off as a mouse click error, but after seeing a handful of similar strange plays by the same person, I'm sure that's not the case. << What other similar plays? Paradise selected the strangest hands and even here I don't see anything similar.
>>And regarding having two client programs on the same physical computer... Off the top of my head I can think of one simple way to do it - Have a dual-boot machine with two operating systems on it, and install one client on each. << Won't work. Paradise can identify a machine by either MAC address or drive serial number. Try it.
>>And BTW, the standard of guilt here is not 'reasonable doubt', so don't bother arguing that the evidence is only circumstantial. This is more akin to a civil action, in which case the standard of proof is merely a preponderance of evidence. And so far, this case looks open-and-shut. << This is a case of theft, so the standard has to be "beyond reasonable doubts". Otherwise, any time you win a lot they might do the same to you.
>>Paradise can identify a machine by either MAC address or drive serial number. Try it.
It's interesting how you know so much about PP's capabilities. Are you seriously going to tell me you just happened to find this out right now? That in order to defend yourself on some public forum you went to the trouble of installing a dual-boot? Or perhaps you know all of this stuff because you already tried it in developing your scam?
I suggest rather than coming up with some elaborate explanations, that you instead get the feds involved on the stolen credit card numbers. Ask them to investigate you so that you can exonerate yourself and then post the results of the investigation on the internet. The feds will get the records of your free internet providers and could trace the phone numbers and shouldn't have much of a problem finding out who was playing with paradises cooperation. We'll all wait for the results.
You seem like a smart cookie too maestro.
>>It's interesting how you know so much about PP's capabilities. Paradise has said so. I don't know what they check for but they said that it hardware, not software.
<> I fail to see what could the results prove. It will show that my computer was connected from phone number XXX to ISP yyy and that another computer was connected from number aaa to ISP bbb. How does that prove or disprove anything?
>>It will show that my computer was connected from phone number XXX to ISP yyy and that another computer was connected from number aaa to ISP bbb.
It would either prove your innocence or guilt as follows..
PP provides FBI with IP logs which shows when the users which played with stolen credit cards were logged in. FBI takes IP addresses and times and goes to internet access provider which corresponds to IP addresses. ISP turns over logs for the time in question which show which phone number was connected to their modem pool with the IP during that time period.
FBI can then associate PP nicknames with the phone numbers used to dial up to the internet providers, whichever were used. Whoever was using the stolen CC#'s will be dialing up using those numbers.
Using this information, it should be a small step to finding out who was using the CC#'s. I am actually surprised the PP didn't turn this info over to the feds. Credit card fraud is a pretty serious crime and it shouldn't take very long to figure out who was doing it.
> 1. It is impossible to create more than one real > money account on one computer, regardless of what > name you use. Anyone who does not beleive me can > try it. When you go to cashier and click "Setup > account for real money" you will get an message > saying that you already have an account.
No, it isn't. All you need to do is install the client into a separate direc
Posted by: rich
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:08 a.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:51 a.m.
Posted by: Aslan (bagir467@yahoo.com)
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Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:05 a.m.
Posted by: ray springfield
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:35 a.m.
Posted by: rich
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Posted by: Terrence Chan
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 3:15 a.m.
Posted by: O.J. Simpson (mustmove@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 3:38 a.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:01 a.m.
Posted by: Steve Brecher (steve@brecher.reno.nv.us)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 2:03 p.m.
Posted by: Aslan (bagir467@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:09 a.m.
Posted by: rich
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:10 a.m.
Posted by: neal ross (nealross@bigfoot.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:14 a.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:31 a.m.
Posted by: ray springfield
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:14 a.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 9:05 a.m.
Posted by: ray springfield
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 9:43 a.m.
Posted by: ray springfield
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 11:35 a.m.
Posted by: Wankers
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:31 a.m.
Posted by: wildbill (wba712@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:36 a.m.
Posted by: Wankers
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:04 a.m.
Posted by: ray springfield
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:19 a.m.
Posted by: Benny
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 3:52 a.m.
Posted by: Darren
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 3:12 a.m.
Posted by: Terrence Chan
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 3:12 a.m.
Posted by: dct (dtseng@houston.rr.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:09 p.m.
Posted by: Devlan
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:43 a.m.
Posted by: Jack R
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 4:12 a.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 9:15 a.m.
Posted by: Angelina (angelina@fekali.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 9:41 a.m.
Studying People Inc.
Slovenia
http://www.fekali.com/angelina
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 11:44 a.m.
Posted by: Maven (neomaven@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:39 p.m.
Posted by: Angelina (angelina@fekali.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:42 p.m.
Studying People Inc.
Ljubljana, Slovenia
http://www.fekali.com/angelina
Posted by: Fast Eddie (Cwkace@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 2:26 p.m.
Posted by: Angelina (angelina@fekali.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 9:53 p.m.
Studying People Inc.
Slovenia
http://www.fekali.com/angelina
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 10:08 p.m.
Posted by: matt
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 9:49 a.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 August 2000, at 10:48 a.m.
Posted by: Angelina (angelina@fekali.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:05 p.m.
Studying People Inc.
Ljubljana, Slovenia
http://www.fekali.com/angelina
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 11:49 a.m.
Posted by: dct (dtseng@houston.rr.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:34 p.m.
Posted by: maestro
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 2:02 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 2:08 p.m.
Posted by: Aslan (bagir467@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 11:41 a.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:01 p.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:23 p.m.
Posted by: Aslan (bagir467@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:31 p.m.
Posted by: Aslan (bagir467@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:25 p.m.
Posted by: maestro
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:54 p.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 1:58 p.m.
Posted by: Aslan (bagir467@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 2:30 p.m.
Posted by: maestro
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 2:55 p.m.
Posted by: Jeff Woods (jester@r00lerz.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 August 2000, at 12:27 p.m.