If you want to learn how to play the piano, drums, guitar, etc.............. all have to do is look in the classified section of a newspaper, why don't Poker Teachers advertise? My God, they don't even advertise in Card Player's classified section.
.
Poker teachers should make posts on this forum and at rgp and discreetly imply to the readers that they are available for lessons. Example: "I believe you should have raised on the flop. By the way, did you know that I give poker lessons? For more information, call me at 555-STUD between 9 to 5 eastern time. By posting here and at rgp, they have access to all that traffic at a cost of zero.
I teach in person or by phone. $500 per two hour lesson. Add $200 for each additional person. If you want Mike Caro it is $501 so you get an opportunity to save money with me.
I heard Mason charges $499. I guess you and Mike are gonna be out of business soon.
Actually, I usually ask how much you have, then I tell you whether it is enough. By the way, it shouldn't matter what I charge, because if you come to me for lessons, it usually means you are going to lose all your money anyway.
...a sense of humor, you crack me up more than any other poster at times.
Regards,
Rick
Yes, its a real funny line----but, you still "have to think about it".
Lou Diamond Phillips - Another Day In Paradise
Kevin Bacon - Planes, Trains & Automobiles
Jenna Elfmann - Whatever that stupid Jennifer Love Hewitt movie was called
In "Superman" the movie (the first one), the actress who played Lois Lane in the original (1960s) TV series appears to be a passenger on the train that young Clark jumps across the front of on his run home. The name eludes me.
Steve Wynn in "Maverick". I've seen the credits several times, and don't recall ever seeing his name, although he is one of the players in the championship event on the riverboat. (Still thinking of the Superman movie, also notice Margot Kidder as "Mary Margaret" in Maverick.)
Noel Neill
Jenna Elfman was in Can't Hardly Wait.
If you want to see cameos watch The Player By Robert Altman
Post deleted at author's request.
Christian Slater in Star Trek VI the Undiscoverd Country.
Hunter S Thompson in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
David Letterman in Cabin Boy.
Jack Nicholson - Broadcast News
Johnny Depp - Gladiator
Where was Depp?
I believe that he was Maximus' assistant.
Joanne Woodward (sort of) in Sleuth
George C. Scott in Hunt for Red October. Sean Connery in Robin Hood:Prince of Thieves. Patrick Stewart in Robin Hood:Men in Tights.
Magic Johnson, Ally Sheedy, Dan Akroyd, Bill Murray, John Candy, Whoopie Goldberg in She's Having a Baby. Alfred Hitchcock in all of his movies. Judge Vernon Jordan (Bill Clinton's golfing buddy) in Rounders. Johnny Chan in Rounders. Drew Barrymoore in Scream.
jay and silent bob in scream 3
maybe it is worth seeing
scott
How about Merv Griffin in one of those murder-parodies? I think it was 'fatal impact' or 'loaded weapon' or something. All through the movie, people would walk into an elevator or a room, look surprised, then say, "Oh, it's you!". Then they would be brutally murdered, but you didn't know who was doing it. It was just someone they all knew.
At the end of the movie, a guy walks into the elevator and goes, "Oh, it's you!" The camera pans over to Merv Griffin as himself. Pretty funny.
1) Bette Midler's "Friends" at the end of The Last of Sheila
2) Marlene Dietrich singing "See What the Boys in the Back Room Will Have" in Destry Rides Again
....
The last scene of "Smoke"
The Man Who Knew Too Much
Dan,
Remind me; I've seen Smoke but don't remember the song.
Thanks
The beginning of Saturday Night Fever.
Robbie Robertson's masterpiece "The Weight" as Fonda and Hopper cruise on their Harleys.
Another great one is Sinatra's "Summer Wind" playing in the background at the beginning of The Pope of Greenwich Village, as Mickey Rourke gets nattily dressed for battle.
How about "Stuck in the Middle Again" as Michael Madsen chops up that cop in Resevoir Dogs? In an age of overused, underwhelming irony, that WAS devastating.
One of the worst was "Bittersweet Symphony" at the end of Cruel Intentions. It worked much better as a Nike commercial.
.
Post deleted at author's request.
Elisha Cook Jr. WAS NOT a psycho when he defended Captain Kirk at his court martial.
John,
I loved the background theme to "Last of the Mohegan’s” and wonder if it was taken from a classical piece that any of you out there are aware of.
I don’t know if this fits the category, but I loved the rendition of “My Way”, done by Sid Vicious during the closing credits of “Sid and Nancy”. It fit the movie to a “T”.
Regards,
Rick
How about Dylan's "Knockin' on Heaven's Door" when Slim Pickens is shot in "Billy the Kid"?
That's a great one. The Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid soundtrack is awesome, even if about 90% of it is the same basic meloldy from Knockin' on Heaven's door.
How about Dylan's turn as an actor in same movie. Pretty wretched.
Despite all the wonderful things we have been reading, it appears that the important people associated with and highly supportive of The Tournament of Champions are now out of their positions. I can't prove this, but I can't help but suspect that the high juice, and poor turnout, which also carried over to the Orleans tournaments was responsible.
It seems to me that the players have spoken.
I hope your correct Mason. Tournaments should be promotional and not a big money maker for the House.
cv
Actually, I think it's just the opposite. My guess, and I need to emphsize that I'm only guessing, is that because of the poor financial showing of the tournament, and this can include things like less drop than expected in side games, less rooms booked, less advertising revenue, failure to lead to other profitable projects (such as the Challenge Cup), etc. all of these people went down.
Now I have no objection to a profit being made. It's just that to make a profit, the customer needs to perceive value. If that's not the case, there may be a shortage of customers.
The non smoking boycott appears to have made a dent.
People are finally starting to listen.
But that dent is still way too small.
Do not attend tournaments that support smoking.
Do not toke smoking poker dealers.
Do not play poker in any state where smoking is allowed.
Do not play on Paradise Poker because they have installed ashtrays therefore promoting smoking.
Do not read Cigar Aficionado.
Do not read Card Player Magazine because the publisher (Linda Johnson) tells people they must toke the dealers when they win a tournament and she also tells them exactly how much to toke. It is none of her business. If it was her business then she should publish the names of those people that do not leave a toke but she does not. Therefore she is a hypocrite and a coward.
Turn in all people that litter their cigarette butts.
Join the cause now.
I had heard that David Hricsina was no longer in charge of the Orleans Poker Room. So, you think that he was let go because attendance was down at the O Open? That may be correct, but if so, shows a pretty short-sighted attitude by upper management (gee, a casino with stupid upper management, now that would be a shocker). I don't know David, but I've only ever heard good things about him from customers. Surprising they'd let him go for one mistake (if it was a mistake).
I'd love to hear the inside story from someone with firsthand knowledge, but hey, this is the internet, where rumor is much more common. Not a slam on you Mason, just the net. You're just posting your opinion based upon the available facts.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Greg:
I agree with your statements completely. But I suspect that I am right. I've just been around too long and I have seen this exact same thing before. (Does any one remember the Tournament at The Tropicana many years ago. I think it was called The Knights of the Round Table or something like that. The poker room manager who had recently received a reward for out standing work got fired, the poker room was closed, and Gambling Times/Poker Player enthusuastically supported the tournament just as Card Player did.
Another thing that convinces me that I am correct are all the wonderful things being said about the people who are no longer in their positions. If those who counted really felt this way, why would they not want to keep them in their positions.
Of course, again, I could be completely wrong about all of this. I am not privy to any inside information.
I heard that the late Johnny Moss, back when he managed the Aladdin cardroom, fired a dealer for being unlucky. And I've heard some stories about blackjack dealers and pitbosses at the Dessert Inn and Imperial Palace getting fired for being unlucky. Is it possible that these people of high repute have been fired because the decision makers believe in luck and bad luck? I mean let's face it, we're in the gambling business where some people tend to believe in luck more than in other industries.
..........the Hall of Fame has been canceled........
.........the Carnivale is dead. and the TOC has a poor turnout. Perfect! ...
....now we can go back to what real poker is really all about:LIVE GAMES!!! ..
...tournaments are not real poker, anyway.
Actually, over the years many big time poker tournaments have been cancelled. I believe that tournaments have their place, and that some events, particularly the WSOP have been very good for poker. But when there are too many major tournaments someone inevitably pays the price, and the event goes down. Despite the wonderful publicity that we are currently reading, I believe that this is what happened.
I also want to make clear that these comments of mine are in no way meant to imply that these fallen people did not do their jobs properly, nor am I implying that their integrity should be questioned. Mistakes do happen, and in the world of big business/big poker, someone frequently has to pay for those mistakes.
I also believe that the poker industry will be better served with less emphasis on major tournaments, even though they do have their place, and more emphasis on well-run cardrooms on a day-to-day basis. In this way, more players will be developed for the future which means (among other thing) that the attendance at tournaments will be better as well as assuring that good poker games will be available for all players.
Mason'
I am a tournament fan. I like them because they put a lot of poker player in the same room at the same time. I ran into some good 2+2 folks at the Orleans, including MAH, Badger, Diane from Green Bay, Fossilman and David Sklansky. You should have joined us! Of course tournamnets are much better when you win. I didn't. God what a lousy tournament!
vince
Yeah Vince,
What a lousy tournament. I only made some money on satellites, but not enough to cover fees. But, how come I had such a great time? Well, I met Rounder, Fossilman, Vince Lepore, Dangerous Dan, and David Sklansky. Diane from Green Bay introduced to a lot of new folks. I think she knows everyone. Anyway, it was a lot of fun talking to all you folks, I did not make a dime, but I had a BLAST!!!
Post deleted at author's request.
The only point I will make is that I felt David Hrcisna did a great job building a team and managing the room, the daily tournaments, and the big annual event.
I always enjoyed coming to town for the Gold Coast/Orleans and will miss David's presence.
Diane from Green Bay
Mason is obviously trying to cause trouble with his wild assertions, which couldn't be further off the mark, and this is why he justly deserves the horrible reputation he has created for himself.
Other than the advertised poker cruises, do any cruise ships offer poker during "normal" cruises?
Also, are there any casinos with poker on any of the Caribbean islands?
Heading to LA in a few weeks, never been. Where are the poker clubs, what are the hours, and what's the scene like? Any reccomdendations or tips?
I'll be staying in Beverly Hills so if you could give locations in relation to there it would be helpful.
Thanks much.
Post deleted at author's request.
thanks much, like I said, I'm an LA Rookie, is South Central all right to visit? I prefer to lose my money at the table.
Also, pretty easy to get cabs from the casinos?
Post deleted at author's request.
Ok, actually I did.
I just wanted everyone to know that there's a bunch of lunatics on the Internet Poker forum. They have engaged small caps scott and I in a battle of wits, and we are the wittier.
They're super crazy, so if you want a piece while it lasts, come on over! No one out-crazies the Young Turks!
"Stupider like a fox!"
Made you look! Old trick though. Just like Niels's. Ciao, sayonara, gezzundheit....
I'm visiting the 'rents in Scottsdale during the week of August 14. I'd like to play in one of the casinos while I'm there so I'd like some advice.
1. Where is the best place to play HE limits of 10/20 and above? How would you describe the typical game style for these limits compared to those in Vegas?
2. I'd like to play a no limit HE tourney as well. What day(s) of the week are they typically offered? What is the buy-in structure?
3. Is there a chance I'll meet any of you regular esteemed posters? I'd love it!
4. Any other advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
They only spread 1-4-8-8 holdem and 1-5 stud at Arizona Charlie's. And they don't have any tournaments.
Hi, Magilla - The only place for 10-20 & up is Casino Arizona, just east of the intersection of the 101 freeway and Indian Bend (do not go to the other CA location on McKellips). I don't play that high yet, but I'm told that the 10-20 game is usually tight and tough, but the 20-40 game is usually active and loose. Go figure.
There is a real good no-limit hold-em tournament, $55 with unlimited $50 rebuys, at Gila River on Wednesday night at 7:00. Be warned, there are a significant number of guys who show up with a pocket full of $50 bills and then play really aggressively and just keep rebuying. If you can handle that, it is said to be a very lucrative tournament. Jim Geary and Rounder have been regulars there.
Casino AZ - 480-850-7777 Indian Bend location
Gila River - 800-WIN-GILA Wild Horse Pass location
Dick
To add to what Dick said (I'm not sure if I know you, Dick. If you play the local tournament circuit, then I'm sure we've seen each other)the 20/40 at Casino Arizona is wild...but if it's loose depends on the lineup. Being new in town, you won't know until you get in the game. They have discontinued the 10/20, but spread a 9/18 on occasion instead, which is filled with the previous 10/20 players. Most of the time it's a tight game.
Sometimes you'll find a 30/60 stud game or a mix game. At Fort McDowell,sometimes on the weekend they will have larger mix games. I've seen as high as 75/150.
JohnnyD
Anybody going on the Sept. 10th cruise out of New Orleans?
Everybody must be. It is sold out with a long waiting list. Unfortunately, I waited too long to book.
Hope you all have fun. I hope to go on their cruise after Thanksgiving.
Diane
How can you copy posts from the archive into a text file. Before C.W. changed the archive format you could save each month as a text file to download to Word or Excel and read at your leasure. Can this still be done, If so How? Thanks.
David,
Maybe the best way to view the older archives is to download them once and use your browser to view them (since they are in HTML). A great benefit of this is that, once saved, you can view them offline, which is very fast.
Here is one way to do it. Under My Documents create a special folder for the archives. Next load an archive (thank God I have DSL) and then select Save As from the File Menu on top of MS IE5. Stick the archive in your special folder. It ends up creating a pointer file to a subfolder containing the actual information and seems to work well.
Ever since www.deja.com and its Power Search feature went to hell (used to be great for rgp archives) I decided I shouldn’t put off archiving the great old 2+2 stuff. Who knows, all could be lost with one hard disk crash (although I would guess Chuck is pretty careful with backups).
Anyway, hope this helps and I would appreciate if anyone could help us with better ways of doing this.
Regards,
Rick
1. Anything that "Forrest Gump" recvd, including Tom Hanks(FG shoulda been on my "Most Hated Movies" post in Mark Harris' thread below).
2. Reese Witherspoon not being nominated for "Election".
3. I can't remember who won that year or what year it was, but I sure seem to recall thinking that they didn't do near as good a job as Michael Keaton did in "Clean & Sober"(which should've been on my favorites list in my above mentioned other post).
Bill,
I wasn't a big fan of Gump either. I did like Hanks in Apollo 13 and believe the movie got the shaft because of the subject matter (Hollywood liberals just hated the space program).
BTW, you guys really impress me with your movie knowledge.
Regards,
Rick
#1 Hitchcock never winning Best Director Award
#2 Perhaps interchangeable with #1: 1956: Around the World in 80 Days named Best Picture. C'mon, The Searchers was made in 1956.
Wow there is so many bad decisions made by the Academy. The Academy is so bogus and so political. Of course you never see all of the performances and thus viewpoints are somewhat limited as a result. Here are two that come to my mind.
1989 – Best Picture - Driving Miss Daisy. I heard some comments by Spike Lee about this movie that pretty much sum up my feelings about it. The other nominees for best picture in 1989 were all better IMO. The other movies nominated dealt with subjects that were not necessarily “pretty” or “pleasing” though and the Academy voted for the most vanilla movie of the lot.
1963 – Hud not even being nominated for best picture. Paul Newman not winning best actor for his performance in Hud. Paul Newman was nominated for best actor, Patricia Neal was nominated for best actress and won, Melvyn Douglas was nominated for best supporting actor and won, arguably Brandon de Wilde gave an even better performance than Douglas IMO, Martin Ritt is nominated for best director, James Wong Howe was nominated and won the for his black-and-white cinematography, and this movie wasn’t even nominated for best picture! What was up with that? Again Hud is not a “pretty” or “pleasing” movie and has a very untypical Hollywood ending. The main character Hud is the ultimate anti-hero, who has a very realistic attitude about death, seems to get everything his own way by the end of the movie. I really liked the movie and consider it my all time favorite.
There are so many, many more. Steven Spielberg’s virtual shutout for The Color Purple comes to mind as well.
#1 and #2: Two years in a row they got Best Supporting Actor totally wrong. 1993, they gave it to Tommy Lee Jones for The Fugitive over Ralph Fiennes for Schindler's List. Horrible choice. Then the very next year they looked over Sam L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction (a landmark performance) for Martin Landau in Ed Wood. Just plain wrong.
#3: The career snubbing of Stanley Kubrick.
#4: Johnny Depp's performance in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas being ignored
#5: Hoop Dreams not being nominated for Best Documentary.
The list goes on and on, but I have to go make dinner. . .
Not only did they not give Samuel L. Jackson the best supporting award, they failed to nominate and award him for what he was: the leading man.
I think Martin Landau's Oscar was well deserved. But you're right, Samuel L. Jackson should be in the leading man category (I don't remember who won it that year).
I'm surprised no one brought up yet Orson Welles total snubbing by the "Academy". But I don't mind he never won anything...
Nor did he. 1941--How Green Was My Valley
Slight misprint: the actual title of the movie was "Andy Gump."
Another rotten AA selection: The Titanic over LA Confidential. Cameron is a superb bluecollar director (there's no hidden snub there): witness the portrayal of the marines in Aliens and the suburban foster parents in Terminator 2. With Titanic, he was out of his element and it showed.
Apparently T3 is in the works with Ahnold on board again. Hard to believe T2 could be surpassed, but we'll see....
Mark,
Even though I haven't seen Titanic, I believe that this picture probably is consistent with Cameron's earlier works. The sinking of the Titanic has become one of the great myths of the 20th century for several reasons, but most pointedly, I think, because it highlights humankind's love and fear of technology. We think technology will both save us and destroy us at the same time, and that theme, certainly present in the Titanic legend--if I'm right and it has become a legend by now--can also be seen at work in The Terminator. (Think of the toy being crushed.)
John
But Cameron deliberately shifted the emphasis from the "unsinkable" Titanic to the "tragically abbreviated" love story between the authentic passionate romantic heroic proletariat kid and the authentic passionate romantic heroic young woman. We are supposed to admire both these characters for disregarding the trappings of their incompatible standings in society and allowing the dictates of heart to reign supreme. So the technological breakdown serves mostly as a backdrop to mush. Cameron (inelegant upstart) identifies with the youth and basically spits in the face of the stuffy effete aristocrats (substitute those members of the Academy who prefer meaningful costume dramas to his cool Terminator flicks). His cad is almost indistinguishable from Snidely Whiplash. The governing principle here is artistic self-indulgence. Cameron the consummate action director decided he could beat Hollywood at its own game. He was even brazen enough to personally sketch his lead actress in the nude and shack up with the actress who portrayed this character's presentday granddaughter. Ironically, Hollywood rewarded Cameron with the plummest prize of all for this egomaniacal exercise because the movie became a box office monster not to be denied....
Mark,
I'm not disagreeing; remember I haven't seen it, nor do I intend to. I just think that the Titanic myth informs this movie, and all movies about the Titanic, nevertheless, because it's part of our collective mythos.
From what I can guess, though, Cameron is a real shit. He certainly looked like a smug one to me when he accepted his award. Who knows? Maybe I'm just envious.
John
Stage 1 air alert today, due to fires burning in The Bitterroot. Sky hazy(can't see the mountains) eyes burn and the air stinks.
went to stage 2 alert for missoula today. time to get away for a break as the air will hurt your lungs. air in the flathead valley was still good but we got our share of smoking fires going, so i dont know how long it will last. best time to go fishing in missoula though. one, the game wardens cant see you so you can do what you like, ha ha. also with the smoke so thick when the fish jump the air is so thick that it takes them a couple of minutes to fall back in the water. just go and wade out and stick your net under them and wait till they fall into it. i spent my day canoeing and swimming in lake mcdonald in g.n.p. nice and quiet expect for all those cutthroat trout jumping around and making noise.
GNP beautiful. Haven't spent much time there. It was much easier when I worked for FS, outdoors everyday.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r1/pgr/fireinfo/index.html
thats the federal site to see whats burning around you Ed. right now it looks like the west is in deep sheeet.
Hi folks: Having trouble with Greg's poker client. Getting a "24057 Socket is not connected" Message. Suggestions? I have tried changing the port from 6667 to 6666 to 7666 (on a friends computer and he uses AOL). Help appreciated. Thanks
If you are using AOL or AT&T as your ISP, you will be excluded from IRC poker. There were a couple of guys who were using those services and causing trouble, and the only way to keep them out was to kick out the entire ISP, so that's what they did. I don't agree with that decision, but I'm not in charge.
Download Juno or some other "free" ISP software, use that to connect to the net, and then start your GPkr software, and it should work. This is what I did, since I'm on AT&T regularly.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
My dad's from Missoula. Maybe I can convince him that it's time to take another trip back up there. The last time we went to visit a glacier was making its way down the river. Where in Missoula are you staying?
Is there poker in Montana?
at putting my posts where they're supposed to be. This was supposed to in repose to Ray's post in which he said, "I'm living in Missoula now." Or something like that.
By the way, Ray, if you stop at the Sons of Norway stall at the county fair, you can try and get my Uncle Vern to give you some free Vikings.
Missoula has 4 games. The best at this time is at Lucky Strike Casino. 4-8 dealers choice,1-2 blinds,10% rake $4 cap. Game not well run and players obnoxious but weak.
Here is a question that I'm very courious about. Do any educated Gamblers believe that some random events may happen for a reason?
I bring this up because I was having a religous dicussion with a close female friend of mine who believes that sometimes her prayers are answered with an event that should be random but was swayed by a "Higher Power".
I tried to explain that I didn't think these events were in anyway non-random, but that her act of persuing the situation, with the help that a prayer may make a positive situation, helped her to be in the right frame of mind to act on a positive random event. I then tried to explain that she should give herself the credit for the positive event and not the "Higher Power". Well, thats not what she really was interested in hearing, and maybe our relationship will faulter because of some of these differanced in core beliefs. This leads me to ask the first question again but with a heavier theme.
Can educated gamblers believe everything happens for a greater cause that many oganized religions would like us to believe?
CV
So your friend believes that as a result of her prayers, sometimes random events occur and sometimes they don't? Hmm...
one of the theives was saved and the other ... damned. one out of two, it's a reasonable percentage. but how is it only one of the four evangelists speaks of a thief being saved? they were all there, or thereabouts.
for my part, i hope they are right and i get to go to hell after i die. anything but nothing, that's what i always say.
but i am betting everything that there is no cause greater than man. damn, i am one serious gambler!
scott
A few casinos offer craps with 100 times odds. If there was any way to predict even the tiniest bit of non randomness, they woould be busted now.
I tried an arguement like that, but was stopped because this person probably realized where I was going with it. I admit she is intellegent, but was programmed early in her childhood about how all events are part of a divine plan.
I would assume by your statement, that you may or maynot believe in a Divine being, but you believe that this being has no control over worldly events.
I would also assume that to play their best, all gamblers would have to have this belief.
CV
God does not play dice.
David's response is funny and appropriate to the silliness of praying for Yo-leven on the craps table.
Interestingly, Einstein's famous quotation "God does not play dice with the universe" was actually in reference to (if I am not mistaken here) his rejection of his own General Theory of Relativity in the form he first developed it. Even he could not accept some of of the uncertainties it implied, and so he tried to resolve matters by inserting a "Cosmological Constant." He later felt that he had wasted years on this incorrect revision, calling it "the greatest blunder of my life."
So, while Einstein once said "God does not play dice with the universe", he may later have come to rather believe otherwise.
It was his unwillingness to accept that there were no hidden variables causing the apparant randomness in quantum theory.
but there are no hidden variables. at least, none that obey locality. and what is really the point of having a nonlocal hidden variable?
if there is a god he most certainly does play dice. and in any case, we are all playing dice.
scott
I stand corrected. I knew I might have been off on this. Over the years I have occasionally read some of the more basic summaries of Relativity. I did not understand it all, nor do I remember it all.
Perhaps you could clarify something that I have been wondering about for many years.
I recall having a debate of sorts with a friend about the Twin Paradox. He said that if a twin left at near the speed of light and returned to Earth after a few years (his time) that he would not return younger than his earthbound twin. I said I thought Relativity says that he would. He said, "but the earthbound twin is also moving relative to the one who is in the spaceship." I said, "But he isn't going as fast." He said, "Compared to what or to whom? There is no absolute frame of reference. It is speed of the twins relative to each other that counts." I said, "What about the atomic clocks revolving on the phonograph? The outer one did age more slowly." He said, "That is different because one clock was orbiting the other. The twins are not; they are moving apart, then back together. Each has the same speed relative to the other. You could just as easily say that the earthbound twin will age more slowly. That's why it is called the Twin Paradox."
I was stumped at this point. The only difference I could see was the brief acceleration and deceleration of the departing/returning twin. I could not say for sure that one twin was moving faster relative to the other, nor could I say that one was moving faster relative to the universe because the universe was no longer viewed as a great big box with a fixed reference frame. I felt my friend was wrong but to this day I do not understand why.
If you could explain further I would appreciate it. Thanks.
[Below a relevant post from the Blackjack websites is reposted, in case it might help a bit:]
The physics, as I have understood the texts; someone more knowledgeable will correct the errors.
Weird ideas about Time-Space
There are two, opposite notions of time-space:
In our large world, Galilean Space-Time, the physical existence of an absolute time is assumed. Isaac Newton defined it by saying that
"Absolute time flows equally, without relation to any thing external. All motions may be accelerated and retarded, but the flowing of absolute time is liable to no change."
Because of this absolute time, the notion of past, present and future is the same for every observer in the cosmos, or, as the physicists say, "in all reference frames". If two events are simultaneous in one particular reference frame (eg for a guy in the Luxor rooftop who sees two small stars explode in the distant sky), this means that the two events are also simultaneous in all reference frames (eg also for an observer in Alpha Centauri). Thus, there is a unique separation between past and future events; it's the sharp, vertical line of the present in a space-time diagram.
Within the framework of our "normal", Galilean Space-Time, faster-than-light speeds are possible, in principle.
The other notion of Space-Time (Minkowski Space-Time) does not know of any absolute time which is physically meaningful. That came about when Albert Einstein gave the notion of simultaneity a new definition: Since all experimental tests to determine the motion with respect to some absolute space-time frame had failed, he decided to abandon the notion of absolute time altogether.
Relativity
In his Theory of Relativity, he postulated two principles, which should hold for all physics:
1) All physical phenomena appear according to the same laws in all reference frames.2) The speed of light is constant in all reference frames.
While the first principle seems well established by observation and experiments, the second one is simply an assumption. It implies, in contrast to Galilean Space-Time, that simultaneity is not an absolute physical quality, but a relative one, depending on the motion of the observer.
The question whether the speed of light is a true physical limit has no definite answer yet. It depends on the real structure of the space-time continuum, which is presently unknown.
Whereas Galilean space-time allows the realization of faster-than-light speeds, at least in principle, Minkowski space-time does not. What is the reason for this difference? The key point is the conception of global time, ie. the physical significance of the term "simultaneity".
Measurement troubles
Consider an example: Imagine an object moving from position A to B. And imagine that A is "very far' from B. The object's speed v is equal to
Distance A to B [divided by] t(A,start) - t (B,finish)
Here, the start time t(A,start) and the finish time t(B,finish) are read off from two spatially separated clocks: one clock is located at point A and the other one at point B.
Now, the difference of the two times in the denominator t(B,finish) - t(A,start) is an indefinite expression, unless there exists a rule how to synchronize both clocks, because clock B "ignores" what the "current" time is at clock A. At least at first, because it should be possible to send a message from A to B to "synchronize watches", right? But, in fact, the decision in favor of any synchronization rule is pure convention, because it's impossible to send an "instantaneous" (ie infinitely fast) message from A to B, saying "Initialize the clocks NOW!".
Which, in turn, means that the actual quantity of speed is conventional too, depending on the particular choice of the simultaneity definition.
So, when you use formulas from Newton's and formulas from Einstein's physics to calculate a certain physical value, you won't get the same value. In 'normal' situations these differences are extremely small. But in 'extreme' situations these differences will become very big!
Example: someone who's in a train that moves with an incredible high speed (like 10,000 miles/second) measures the distance between two points on the train. Measuring in a train that moves at even 10,000 miles/hour would make the difference in distance immeasurably small. Newton's laws would certainly do in these situations. But when the speed of the train approaches the speed of light, the difference will become noticeable (='extreme' situations), and we would need Einstein's physics. According to the latest experiments, Einstein's formulas seem to be the right ones.
Time is on my side
According to Einsteinian conjecture, the speed of light is constantly independent of the reference system of the observer. It is a limit that can't be exceeded by any kind of matter without transforming to energy (we know the famous equation).
Each measurement of that speed c will have the same value, no matter how fast you move. Whether you stand still or move at 50% of light speed, the ray of light will always move at about 300,000,000 kilometers per second. A fast mother! (More precise figure: in a vacuum it's 299,792,458 kilometers/sec, and, yes, I looked it up).
That sounds strange; we would think when you move at 50% of light-speed along the ray of light, the measurement of that light-speed would be halved. But light-speed remains a universal constant, as shown in experiments.
That means that time passes slower when you move than when you stand still. If you move at a low speed, that difference is extremely small. But if you move at light-speed itself, precisely at speed c that is, then time stands still. If you move faster than light-speed, you could go back or forward in time because you can arrive somewhere before light does. That means you could travel to the future or the past...
If you travel to a star at 80% of light-speed during 10 'earth' years, only 6 years will pass for you. An observer on earth with a mighty telescope would see you acting in slow-motion. That's why they half-jokingly say that astronauts come back on earth younger, from lengthy missions...
Tachyons
Scientists give a name even to what they have not yet discovered; they named tachyons those particles that some day will be discovered and which can travel faster than light (from the Greek word tachys=fast).
Suppose there's a gun which fires tachyons at a target with a speed of 2c, i.e. twice the speed of light (slow for a tachyon!). Let's call the moment of firing G1 and the moment of hitting the target G2. Observer 1, who doesn't move, sees the gun firing and then the bullet hitting the target (G1 then G2). Observer 2, who travels at 50% of light speed in the same direction as the bullet, sees departure and arrival happen at the same moment (G1=G2). Observer 3, who travels at 80% of light speed in the same direction as the bullet notices that the bullet moves from the target to the gun (G2 then G1)!
This thought experiment leads us to the notion that, when a speed bigger than c is permitted, in certain reference systems these fast-moving particles or whatever can travel back in time, relative to normal physical processes.
When tachyons exist, we can send messages back in time!
Time travel: Delayed
So if tachyons existed and we could manipulate them, we could send messages to the past. However, even in those thought experiments, we're supposed to send back in time particles, like those damn tachyons, but not persons, because the matter we're made of cannot travel faster than light.
Ain't lab scientists totally without imagination or what?..
*
RE: "In Response To: Einstein's "God Does Not Play Dice With The U (M)" & "NEW: Educated Gamblers and Fate?"
A few points: (1) Einstein was/is one of the world's greatest mind -- no doubt. His "Einstein's" comment about dice and the universe even if understood in the most compleat way possible -- would still be a riddle in some respects.
(2) As history shows, normal scientific revolutions "SRs" continue on and on. For progress, SRs are a neccessity. Models or paradigms "things taken for granted in a given era" continue to evolve at a much faster rate as time passes -- we all can see this happening before our eyes. For example, small particle theory in physics is being challenged by "string" theories. There are a few different theories on optics which have all contributed to better eyesight and understanding the universe. Nautical navigation techniques have went through various paradigms -- all for the better. The same goes for poker....
(3) So "Educated Gamblers and Fate" will be studied and dicussed for years to come. I'm sure that the formative years of poker players has a great influence on how they feel on their "later in life" poker habits. For example, DS or some other author "I forget who" in one of their earlier gambling books mentioned that he had a friend who was an excellent poker player who could not become a full time professional because of "due to a somewhat guilt complex"" his early christian training. So at this time and due to my early formative years of religious training....
I feel "usually after a bad day at poker" that some of us who play lots of poker should "only if possible" devote some time "depending upon the individual" to helping those who need help. Without mentioning names, I have read about some of the world's best poker players who devote four or five days each month of time to helping others. They also mentioned that it clears their mind by forgetting about poker every now and then.
From the Foreword by Isaac Asimov to A History Of Mathematics by Carl B. Bover, revised by Uta C. Merzbach:
Mathematics is a unique aspect of human thought, and its history differs in essence from all other histories...
As time goes on, nearly every field of human endeavor is marked by changes which can be considered as correction and/or extension...
And yet, among most branches of science, the process of progress is one of both correction and extension. Aristotle...had to be corrected by Galileo...Galen, the greatest of ancient physicians...had to be corrected by Vesalius in 1543 and Harvey in 1628. Even Newton...had to be modified by Einstein in 1916.
Now we can see what makes mathematics unique. Only in mathematics is there no significant correction, only extension. Once the Greeks had developed the deductive method, they were correct in what they did, correct for all time. Euclid was incomplete and his work has been extended enormously, but it has not had to be corrected. His theorems are, every one of them, valid to this day.
Ptolemy may have developed an erroneous picture of the planetary system, but the system of trigonometry he worked out to help him with his calculations remains correct forever.
Each great mathematician adds to what came previously, but nothing needs to be uprooted...
God does not play dice!
Maybe he knows they're loaded!
Vince.
"Not everything that counts can be counted. Not everything that can be counted counts."
-Albert Einstein
I would tell her that you feel it is impossible for mere mortals to understand and comprehend "higher powers."
You underestimate people's tolerance of cognitive disonnance and situation-specific values/beliefs.
I've never understood people who pray for God to look out for them, especially in mundane matters. What kind of arrogant jerk to do you have to be to pray to God to help you make that free throw in Basketball or make a roll in craps, while at the same time he's letting a Concorde go down in flames with 109 people aboard?
I'll guarantee this: When the relatives of the people on the Concorde first heard about it, every single one of them who believed in God prayed with all their might that their loved one was spared. God never answered one of them. I guess he was busy helping Sammy Sosa go for the record.
Dan,
I find you to be one of the sharpest minds on the forum and love your stuff on the Exchange concerning matters other than poker (e.g., gun control, overpopulation myths). I’d vote for you for President except you are a Canadian but maybe the President can hire you on as an advisor. After all, he takes money from the Red Chinese so what could be wrong with hiring you?
But here we are a close but somehow a little out of synch. You wrote:
”I've never understood people who pray for God to look out for them, especially in mundane matters. What kind of arrogant jerk to do you have to be to pray to God to help you make that free throw in Basketball or make a roll in craps,”
Many people look to God as some sort of “Celestial Butler” (see note 1), and I agree this is wrong. Like many, I struggle with faith and am uncertain of my religious beliefs. But as I have grown, when I do pray, I pray for strength in dealing with the cards that are dealt me rather than favors from God. In other words, God created an imperfect universe for his own reasons, and if I become victim to one of his imperfections (let’s say I get cancer at an early age), I will try to look to him for dealing with it with courage and dignity rather than asking for a miracle cure (at least I hope I would anyway).
”...while at the same time he's letting a Concorde go down in flames with 109 people aboard?”
Humans make machines that do wonderful things but sometimes they tragically fail; God made nature, which is usually beautiful, but sometimes it wrecks havoc. I don’t think God let that plane go down, nor did he make it, nor would he try to prevent it. I think on these he does role the dice.
”I'll guarantee this: When the relatives of the people on the Concorde first heard about it, every single one of them who believed in God prayed with all their might that their loved one was spared.”
It is human nature to hope and pray for the best. I would too in this spot.
”God never answered one of them. I guess he was busy helping Sammy Sosa go for the record…”
If they believe, then they should pray for strength in dealing with their loss. And Sammy Sosa can get his records or Evander Hollyfield his victories on their own.
Regards,
Rick
Note 1: “Celestial Butler” is a term taken from the book “Happiness is a Serious Problem” by Dennis Prager. I highly recommend it.
Rick, I guess I should have been a little clearer. I thought we were specifically talking about God intervening in things like how the dice are going to fall at the table.
I grew up in a very devout Christian household. One of the many things that led me away from that faith when I was a small child was the daily prayers at supper, which would often be along the lines of, "God, please deliver a bountiful harvest this year.", "God, please look after our daughter as she leaves for school". In looking at the world, I could only assume that God will do no such thing.
I saw an interview with Sammy Sosa where he stated that his success as a ball player was specifically due to God's intervention. He took no credit, because it was all God's doing. I didn't know God was such a big hitter.
Anyway, I understand the good intentions behind it all, but to me it seems like just another form of fuzzy thinking. Clearly, God isn't going to deliver a bountiful harvest. The weather and the random changes in the jet stream which moves air masses around will decide that. And if God DOES intervene in some cases, then you have to believe that he's a real SOB, because tens of millions die every year, and almost all of them wanted to stay alive, as did their families. We're clearly here on our own. If there is a God, he apparently wants it that way.
Dan,
We are not that far apart then. But I'm not sure God is a SOB. If only good things happened to the devout or good people, and bad things happened to the unfaithful or bad people, then people would be devout or good people for self-interest alone. That sort of world doesn't make sense to me and I wouldn't want to live in one where the motives for decency are so shallow. To me, it would be like living in a "Stepford World".
When I look at tragedy, I believe it is there to give us an appreciation of the preciousness of life. A world without tragedy would lose its edge, its meaning, and its vitality.
If there is any reward for the decent and good people on earth, it is that they tend to have better and more meaningful friendships. Assholes rarely have real friends.
I'm not much of a baseball fan anymore, so I don't know much about Sosa. But it aggravates me when some athletes say, "I won because Jesus (or God) was on my side" or something similar. For example, Evander Hollyfield is a courageous fighter I admire but he is big on wearing his faith on his sleeve and attributing his wins to God’s will. If he merely said "I thank God for giving me the strength and inspiration to perform my best", then I wouldn't have any problem with it. But I don't think God cares who wins the boxing title.
Regards,
Rick
If God helps those who pray for help in any way, then that should be testable in the real world. You should be able to collect statistics on accident rates, diseases, etc. and compare the devout and non-devout. I see absolutely no evidence of it. We have to look no further than the Holocaust.
Dan,
Actually, there have been some recent news stories about studies that indicate that those who pray do better when facing disease and so on. But a lot can be explained away by the other habits of the devout (e.g., they are more likely to follow doctor's orders and have a positive attitude which has to help).
I don't know if you saw my post regarding the smoking issue. Japan has the highest rate of smoking in the world along with the highest longevity. I don't think smoking is good for you, but in Japan, a smoker often maintains a healthy lifestyle. In Western societies, smokers tend to have a lot of other bad habits, which lead to early demise.
Anyway, I'm not sure we have any argument. But the Holocaust is another matter. The fact that man is capable of great evil does not disprove the existence of God (nor does it prove it). But it is too late for me to get into that one now.
BTW, thanks for the response. I have great admiration for your intellect and am looking forward to more articles from you in Poker Digest.
Regards,
Rick
actually i think the patients who give their doctors (and nurses) the most trouble tend to do best. (as far as asking questions and demanding explanations, taking an active role in their treatment,getting 2nd opinions, etc.) im pretty sure there have been studies on this.
brad
brad,
Good point. I probably used a bad example, especially regarding my own experience, regarding blindly following the word of those in the medical profession.
Regards,
Rick
while i agree there is an arrogance in asking god to care about your little problems, it is a hollow arrogance. the truly proud would never accept god's help, let alone beg for it.
scott
and what comes right after pride?
Dan,
To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw, we live in an age in which we can readily accept the notion that sub-atomic particles must exist, even if they haven't been discovered yet, but we refuse to believe that 1000 angels can dance on the head of a pin. Sorry for another reference, but "The heart has it's reasons which reason knows nothing of."
And this is from a lapsed Catholic who believes that we have created God in our image, and I no longer have any doubts whatsoever. Your outrage is certainly evident, and extremely well put, but unnecessary when the whole category "God" disappears.
However, I know people who possess Faith, and it is, for them, a very strong force. Sometimes I regret not having it myself.
John
Note to myself: preview message first.
Mea Culpa. Mea Maxima Culpa.
Translation: dumb shit.
*
I fairly sure if you believe everything happens for a reason (and it is true) then you are living in a deterministic universe, and thus alot of notions of freewill and responsibility go out the window.
I don't believe organized religon would have its believers believe that everything happens for a reason.
your friend is absolutely right, with one caveat.
(gee i hope i spelt that right.)
the reason comes after the event.
(and with some people is even indepedent of the actual event!)
for example, last night i played too long ,got a little tired, got a little run of ice cold cards, got a little passive, and got bluffed out of a big pot. the reason i assigned to this event was that i had lost my 'killer instinct' attitude. i quickly did a mental adjustment and within a couple hours more than made up for that lost pot.( but more importantly i played better!)
this is in opposition to the losing attitude of thinking "gee, this is the 47th time my straight flush draw didnt get there, its just not in the cards for me tonight, nothing i can do about it ... "
brad
Only losers don't believe in God.
my post neither disavowed nor endorsed a belief in either a personal (God) or impersonal god.
i do however believe that only an idiot thinks he no longer has to learn anything because he knows it all.
by mightiest desire, brad
"random events may happen for a reason?"
There is no such thing as a purely random event occurring in this universe. Even if some physicists now believe that matter has been seen to be randomly appearing in parts of the universe, to my knowledge they have not been able to verify the random generation of matter. Consequently, all occurring events are thus deemed "pseudo random". Pseudo randomeness does indeed occur for a reason. David Sklansky incorrectly uses tossing dice as a random event. It is not. Science can determine the cause of the "seven" if given the proper information and can predict the result of the toss if allowed to control the physical factors.
Vince.
While I wouldn't argue with the dice-toss result as actually being controlled by a great many factors, it does not necessarily follow that all events in the universe are pseudo-random. And, just because physicists have not been able to verify the random generation of matter does not mean that they won't be able to do so in the future.
But the simplest proof that truly random events occur, in my opinion, is something I just now came up with! Here goes:
When I decide: A) I will have ice cream if the coin comes up heads, or B) I will not have ice cream if the coin comes up heads, that is necessarily going to produce a truly random result. It HAS to. Because we are no longer just flipping a coin. I could have said the OPPOSITE. What I SAID has no influence on whether the coin comes up heads or tails. So while the coin toss itself is pseudo-random, and what I said may or may not have been pseudo-random, whether I have ice cream IS random. This is because when the two events are combined, I could have either specified tails or a negative prior to the coin toss. There is no sphere of influence between what I (or you)specified before the coin flip and the coin flip itself. Therefore, truly random events can and do occur, even if they are caused by a combination of pseudo-random events.
"And, just because physicists have not been able to verify the random generation of matter does not mean that they won't be able to do so in the future. "
well, ive got you now:)
just because i cant refute your argument now doesnt mean i wont be able to do so in the future. obviously you cant argue with that.
brad
It sounded like Vince was saying, not that physicists had proved it one way or the other, but that since they hadn't, they were assuming one side as a basis to work from. On the other hand, I feel like my short proof actually proves something. While I'm not Euclid and my "proof" may not be airtight, you can't seriously say that just because you can't prove that 2+2 doesn't equal 4, that that doesn't mean you won't be able to do so in the future. Or then again, maybe you can.
I can prove that 2+2 ‡ 4, if to = 2 then
to + to = toto
Q.E.D.
i was just kidding around. thats the oldest sophist argument there is (... i may not be able to out debate you now, but that doesnt mean youre right because i may be able to refute you sometime in the future ...).
as far as seriously being able to implement true randomness, you make a good point. what youre doing i guess is removing the cause of the event from yourself (in other words whether you want ice cream or not will not have any effect on your action) and instead using a totally unrelated thing as a proxy cause.
so there is indeed a cause/effect relationship, but one that cannot be teased out using inductive/deductive reasoning.
so lets say you raise on the end heads up. you have a reason for doing so which is the cause. (either a bluff or strong hand.) note that you may give off a tell or something. also there is a logical coherency to your play that could conceivably be picked up on.
but if you decide before the last card to raise or not through a proxy cause ( eg., whether second hand of watch is up or down) then your action is truly random in the sense that theres no way for a third party to know the cause of your action. (and if you dont look at last card,(a bit easier in stud) then you cant give off tells.)
note however, that there is indeed a cause (for raising or whatever) , and i would guess for that reason that it is not really random.
note how ive sneakily changed random from "not being predictable" to "not having a cause from which to predict" :)
brad
Hi Brad, I thought you were joking but I wasn't sure.
If you were to introduce a third unrelated element as a preface to which way you phrase the next element, and the flip the coin or look at your watch, then you could certainly be sure it was random. Of course there is a cause but it too would be randomized.
1) flip a coin to determine if the second hand being up is raise or vice versa
2) look at the second hand
3) raise or not without looking at the last card. Now you are REALLY gambling.
as i see it , the only reason to chain proxy events together is the same as the original use of proxy cause. to hide the true cause of your behavior from an observer. so flipping the coin first will only provide more 'randomness' if your opponent can somehow deduce what youre doing with the watch (and is looking at same clock maybe).
but i still think it is only pseudo-random, to use vinces term, because someone (god?) with perfect information of the preconditions could still predict the outcome (postconditions).
of course theres always quantum theory ...
brad
Great bar. Bad movie.
Great movie, great acting, quintessential directing, a must see. 3 tumbs up (maybe up your A%S).
REALLY??? worst movie of the year so far, but great hype and marketing. All those bar scenes you see onthe TV commercial, that's all there is. And do you know why they call the babe "Law".....
Because after 1 scene, she leaves an goes to Law school....lame ain't the word. it SUCKS. It ain't even a good drive in movie. Fighting the the mosquitos is more interesting.
". it SUCKS"
Don't sugar coat it, Ratso baby. Tell us how you really feel!
Vince
Ratso,
If it's as bad as you say it is, you'll be seeing those "candid" interviews with filmgoers exiting the theater telling everyone how good it is, the surest way to tell via advertising how bad it really is.
John
Yea, they will be saying, "It was better than CATS"
I'm going to be in Vancouver, BC for a month (downtown) and I was wanting to tap the message board's wisdom on where to play in Vancouver. My preference is lower limit HE (15-30 and below). I would also like to know if there are also regular casinos with craps available in the area.
Thanks.
The best place to play HE is the Holiday Inn on Broadway. The corner of Broadway and Heather I believe. This is not downtown but it's only about a 5-10 minute cab ride. They are open from 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. daily. They basically only play 10-20, occassionally 5-10. The games are generally quite good. Fairly loose, a lot of people giving their money away.
There are a couple of casinos downtown, however, only the one in the Renaissance Hotel has poker and they only play 7 card stud.
There are a couple of others that play 4-8HE. One at the Quality Inn, in South Vancouver and one at the Great Canadian Casino in Richmond. Both are about a half an hour from downtown.
I would recommend the Holiday Inn. One bad thing about it is you can't phone ahead and put your name on the list. And just in case you didn't know, all of these casinos are non-smoking.
What's happening at the Orlean's with the firing/resignation of David H.?
Wanted to know if anyone knows the latest status on John and Billy's situation, and if I am going to have to head across town now. Is the DC going to reopen?
The DC has folded in light of an 8-month time frame for resolving their case. The Mayfair has also been shut down by "The Mayor's Task Force". They are fighting in court as they believe their operation is fundamentally different from the DC. It will take some time, and they are on the rail in the meantime.
Alex : Hello
Alex : who is this?
Alex : Geez.....answer me
computer : what?
Alex : hey are you batman?
computer batman : yeah I'm batman
Alex : hey, batman, what is your opinion about people like Rudy/Rounder/Michael7
Batman : Sorry, can't tell you, I am loyal to the Shredder
Alex : I mean, you've got to be a liberal don't you?
Batman : I'm liberal with the ladies. That, and I'm batman
Alex : You're an idiot.
Batman : I have a bong shaped like a bat. I keep it in the batmobile.
a.
nt
That post made no sense. Who posted that?
I think Michael7 posted it. What a comedian! Someone should give him a show. He could talk to fictional cartoon characters, and complain about things. Like liberals, and resident reds Ivan Putski, Berya, and Ching-Chang Chinaman (Niels Hoven).
a.
Hello friends- lengthy trip report to follow, no hand content, so if you don't like my style reports, stop reading now. ___________________________________________________ Well I have been back home a week and still feel like I haven't caught up on my sleep or projects at work and home. But it was a great trip and well worth the fatigue I feel now.
Arrived late on Wednesday 7/21 and went straight to room and bed.
Played $20-40 and some $10-20 from Thursday - Sunday at Orleans. Room was still going strong with side action that whole weekend. I did well overall, with just one losing session and that was a small one.
I played in 3 tournaments, 2 Limit HE and 1 NL, but the best I could do was 34 out of 291 for the NL HE for $0. Played hard but no rewards. Good thing my live play covered all my tournament entries including the very expensive TOC.
My occasion traveling companion, Karen, was with me for 4 days, so that made it all that more enjoyable.
Sunday morning, Karen and I had breakfast with Jan Fisher (formerly of CP), Mark Tenor, Lee Jones, Greg Raymer (fossilman) and Jim Geary. It was the first time I had met either Mark or Jim, so it was enjoyable to meet two new poker friends.
I met many from here and rgp through the course of my trip. It was great to see so many old friends and to be able to introduce some strangers for the first time to fellow followers of this forum and rgp newsgroup.
The Sunday night reception for TOC was lots of fun. I had the pleasure of seeing Badger and Vince engaged in pleasant small talk. I had offered earlier to introduce Vince to Badger, but they apparently met up on their own and were very civil to each other. First time I had met VInce...so that was treat.
MOnday morning there was a large group of us that met for breakfast courtesy of David Hrcisna, the former manager of Orleans Poker room. David graciously bought for 12 of us who had met downstairs. We then had several others join us in the buffet.
HOpefully my notes are correct and I haven't left anyone out. I apologize if I leave someone off the list. Here's the group that got together for good food, pleasant conversation, and strategy:
John Harkness,Johnny D,Mark Heide,Gary Furness,Dave Roemer,Fossilman,JP Massar,TOC champ-Spencer Sun,Jack, Stephen Landrum,Bill Chen,Linda Johnson (formerly of CP,Tom Sexton (Poker Masterpieces)Jenny Kaye and Denny Williams from the Bicycle Casion, Tom Overton, Mark and Tina Napolitano (Pokerpages.com)and their family.
It was a big group and we had to spread out, but I did get to chat with everyone for at least a short period to thank them all for coming. What a great group! STrong players and some movers and shakers in this industry. I am proud to have met them and become good friends with some. And then to think that Spencer (Zorac) went on to win the TOC.....must have been my good breakfast and conversation with him.
Unfortunately despite my great breakfast kick off to the day, my TOC experience did not last long. I was eliminated about 11:30 pm the first night. No cards, and especially no hands during the STUD portion. It became very expensive to get good starting cards in stud and then have them fizzle out.
I was really bummed out and went straight to bed. $2,000 spent, a year of anticipation, and I am eliminated the first day!
Tuesday went to Bellagio to play $15-30. I really wanted to get away from the Orleans after 5 days in a row, and see some new faces. Typically I have a hard time beating the daily grinders at the Bellagio.....but not this day.
I had great cards and great reads on people in my game. I played from about 1 pm on Tuesday straight through until 9 am on Wednesday morning!! I don't do that often since I am old and out of shape, but I had a big win and rode it for awhile. Cashed out +$4,300 and went to bed. What a rush....I liked being able to cash in racks of red for those lavender/white $500 Bellagio chips.
Came back on Wednesday to Bellagio, but couldn't repeat. Ended up losing $370 and then headed back to watch the end of the TOC with Jan Fisher, Bonnie Damiano, Mike O'Malley, Jenny Kaye and other friends. It was great to see the Norther CA crowd cheering for Spencer with the rgp sign from TOC 99 and Patti Beadles hat. Had a late dinner (2 am late) with Bonnie and went to bed.
Was originally scheduled to head home, but decided to stay over two more days to attend the WPIC and the roast for Mike Sexton. It was great and I was so glad I did hang around.
Thursday played some at Mirage, but didn't do anything of note.
Friday I went back to Bellagio and played $15-30 for quite awhile getting stuck $900. I had been itching to try the $30-60 for quite awhile, so kept an eye on it. When they started up the 3rd table of $30-60 with what appeared to be a soft lineup, I jumped in.
I decided to tell myself that the chips were just betting units and bought in for a rack ($1,000). Won some lost some and had to buy in a second rack. Didn't like having $2,000 invested, but I was determined to get comfortable with that limit and eventually I did. At one point I was down to my last $350 (out of $2,000) but then I hit a nice rush of cards. I played straight through the night again for the second time on my trip and stayed right until the last minute before needing to pack and catch my flight. Cashed out a $1200 win at $30-60, and a net win for the day of $300. Felt really good!
Caught plane, got first class upgrade and slept all the way home. Even through meal they served on plane, which rarely happens. I don't miss many meals!
Great trip, lots of time with good friends, and now Diane knows she can at least hold her own for awhile in $30-60.
Diane from Green Bay
Oh sure Diane----cashing in 8 racks of red in winnings is nice, but meeting Vince was a "real treat"? Congrats on the plunge into 30-60. See you in Tunica.
I was very pleased to finally meet Vince. Now I still need to meet "Rounder". I heard rumors he was there and left before I arrived, but not sure.
Oh well, someday.
See you Labor Day weekend.
Diane
Diane I would have been there but had a "personal problem" Kept getting AA & KK cracked heads up.
:-)
Looking forward to meeting you some time.
Mike
Diane,
Nice report. Thanks for introducing me to everyone at the Orleans. I'm in the red from this trip, but nothing a paycheck couldn't cure.
I may have won this time.....but I am still not ready to quit my "day job".
Hope to see you again soon.
Diane
Diane,
At least when I make mistakes at work they usually don't cost me anything. But, your friend Karen got to see me do something really stupid at that NL Hold'em tournament that put me on major tilt that evening. I still don't believe I pushed my stack all in. Anyway, I've been real busy lately with my real job, but I will post a trip report soon. See ya!
>MOnday morning there was a large group of us that met >for breakfast courtesy of David Hrcisna, the former >manager of Orleans Poker room. David graciously bought for 12 of us who had met downstairs.
From what I hear, he can afford it.
Brett
Brett- You sure are cynical. Why can't your glass be half-FULL?
Be glad for the good things in life. Why always take pot shots? Regardless of anything else, it was nice of David to buy for our group. He came down to meet us and hung around long enough to take care of us.
Diane
"First time I had met VInce...so that was treat"
Diane from Green Bay,
Your'e making me blush! The "treasure" was all mine.
Vince
P.S. In the future, please refrain from using "Badger" and "Vince" in the same sentence. some consider that a double negative.
Vince
$4,300 in a 15-30 game. You should be barred from playing!
Vince- My record is $4,000 in a $10-20 playing on just my original $200 buy-in.
Hope to see you again soon sometime around the poker trail.
Diane
Is there such a thing, and if so, where is it?
http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/main_index/index.html
Lyrics World
Thanks for the site but theres only about 200 songs on it. am i missing something?
I just checked out the link and it contains most of the hits from 1930-1999
I know I'm a little behind the times with this one but I just saw this movie last night. I'm not a big Tom Cruise fan but the reviews were generally pretty good and my girlfriend is from Sydney where it was shot so we decided to give it a try.
What a pile of crap this movie was. With all that money it amazes me they can't make anything better than that. The story and acting was obviously brutal but even the action scenes were average. The slow motion action was just stupid. The only good part was the scenes of Sydney. Last Cruise film for me. What did everyone else think?
There was a thread on this a while back. I thought the movie was awful bad too.
I may be in Arizona for a family reunion around Thanksgiving. Are there any Indian casinos reasonably close to Phoenix with some good poker action?
I think I've heard Casino Arizona has the best games in town. Is that true? Are they an Indian casino?
Casino Arizona is an Indian Casino. What limits and games do you like. CA probably has the best lively games, but Gila River and Fort McDowell also has lower limit games.
JohnnyD
For any game 10-20 or higher, Casino Arizona is the only choice. For lower limits, both hold'em and Omaha8 are excellent loose lively games; I don't like the low limit stud because they have put too high an ante on it by Vegas standards (.50 for 3-6 and $1 for 6-12).
Gila River has some good lower limit games; their 6-12 stud game with a full kill is always a great action game (same relatively high ante of $1 as C.A.). And their Tuesday (limit HE) and Wednesday (NL HE) 7:00 tourneys are big money ($55, unlimited $50 rebuys until the break).
Call Me or check my Poker Page for News when you are coming and I will update you on the games. I play 3-6 and 4-8 hold'em and Omaha8 ; I recommend Jim Geary for information on the big games at Casino Arizona.
Dick
Last night I left Bellagio's abound 1 a.m. I stopped at Kinko's and checked my e-mail and fooled around on the forum. When I was done I had chalked up a bill of $14.20 and was kicking myself for not waiting until morning when I could have gotten away free at the Nellis AFB library.
I got in my car and took solace in the fact that I had had a winning session at 15 Holdem and things were not that bad. On the way back to my room I passed an all night bar. Gee, that's not something one would expect to find here in Vegas, now is it! A Ford E-150 Van was parked in front of the bar with the sliding side door open. Next to the open door there were two people, a male and female, that, at first, I thought were embracing. Viva, Las Vegas! As I got closer I could see that the female was struggling to break away from the guy's bear hug. When I passed them she looked like she was really struggling to break loose.
A little further down the road my conscience began to ring in my ear. "Go back and check that out, What if she were your daughter?". Well, even though I don't have a daughter I decided to turn around at the next intersecttion and go back. Sure enough when I got back the couple were still stuggling. I made another Uey and entered the bars parking log. The first thought that I had was: What if he has a gun? Yeah, Viva Las Vegas, this! I slowed down the car and approached with caution. And then from a good distance I rolled down the passenger window and yelled:"Hey is everthing o.k. over there?" Before I could utter another word the girl still obviously struggling to get away said in a drunken stooper: "F... you, you F...ing Motherf...er!" I immediately smiled and said :"O.K hon" and left.
As I drove down the highway I began to laugh. Not a hysterical laugh, more like a sarcastic laugh with a little grin on the end. A little further I began to laugh out loud and then suddenly stopped laughing. I realized I was laughing at myself because I felt foolish for getting involved. But as I kept thinking about it I had to ask myself: "If a similiar situation ever occurs again will you do the same thing? Even though I was feeling a little stupid I decided that I would definitely react the same way. After all, What if she were my daughter!
Vince.
s
Vince, next time call a cop or security. It's the right play!!!
I would have asked for directions and tested the waters. I figure if the dude was out to get her, it would allow her to say something, but I think you were OK doing what you did. Of course, you could have been killed. You gotta' death wish, Vince?
you did the right thing. period, no if's and's or butt's about it.
although I would suggest carring a pistol (and knowing how to use it in self defense) if you plan on doing this more often. The police and/or security are going to usually be way too slow in a situation like this.
disregard for one's personal safety is quite a virtue. you acted admirably.
scott
went up the river to watch some geese that swam by today. and on the way back this dumb black bear was near my cabin eating sarviceberries. i had to walk way around him so as not to chase him away. with lots of huckelberries around what was he thinking? those sarviceberries are dry and have little flavor even to a bear i think. maybe he came down from canada where they like those pithy things in their pancakes. oh, for those that want poker from every post in all the forums-- a flush dont beat no darn full boat and look to your left before you act.
He needed a human to show him the huckleberries. That's why god gave humans to bears, to show them the huckleberries.
But, talk about a rough way to make a living. Pulling berries from branches with your lips. And now, there's a human giving you looks that say you're stupid. "Frankly, I'd like to see him making a living pulling berries from branches with his lips.", thinks the bear.
Well, I do believe Ray has pulled a little out of some berry patches in his time.
Ray, that's cause you're not out there FFing. the bear is probably waiting for you to provide him with a nice rainbow that he can fry up and serve with a sarviceberry reduction. He's thinking "stupid hairless thing. the water's low, the fish are at their most vulnerable, and he's out there looking at some damn geese that he won't catch with that funny long stick of his. I know more fishing than I do poker, so I'll leave the card wisdom to you in this thread.
"those sarviceberries are dry and have little flavor even to a bear ""i think."" What the flock does he know I just ate a slimy oily fish and these berries are perfect to dry up my mouth.
Smart Black Bear
Ray, I think that bear must be not eating for a while, since this makes me remember those early days when I did not win a pot for a while, I would call a solid raise with KJo in a hurry.
regards,
jikun
A bear stood watching a man eating a baloney sandwich, wondering why he'd want to eat carrion when there were LIVE SQUIRRELS scampering around right at his feet! Everyone knows how yummy live squirrels taste! Stupid human!
years ago when i used to hunt the little buggers i made squirrel stew. they are tough and too stringy for me, about like the taste of opossum and muskrat combined.
Just an Idea, how about a link from each forum back to the home page.
thanks
there is right on the left down in directory under home if you leave the green side on your left. hows zad?
ray,
those of us who do not live in remote cabins in the woods, nor wrestle with bears, nor think about sheep in impure ways often open a frame in a new window (to do this in MS IE 5 use a right mouse click on the main message index). this eliminates the green frame of links on the left which most of us rarely need. then we generally bookmark (or make a favorite in MS IE 5) each forum and of course put it right on top of our favorite places to surf. believe it or not, i have one folder entirely devoted to 2+2, for it is such a neat place.
my suggestion to one and all is to also include one bookmark/favorite of the 2+2 home page which would enable us visit the links and to buy your books at full retail and to see your handsome face even though WE know you really look more like the unibomber these days. btw, no disrespect intended, as we have three copies of your book, all of which were purchased at retail.
that being said, maybe there should be a button that returns to the home page, but chuck looks like he does too much work for you guys already and I doubt mason pays him well.
regards,
rick
p.s. actually, you might be a little better looking than the unibomber, but not by much. it is a toss up as to who is smarter.
Rick, I grew up in LA now live in MT. I used to enjoy conversations with you 15 yrs ago at the Bike. Today I have no clue what your talking about, but then I'm computer illiterate.
Ed,
Fifteen years ago? I was still living in Rhode Island. Wow, time flies. I played at the Bike once in a while when on business travel but that was before holdem was legal. My main game back in 1985 was 5/10 draw then I got hooked on 3/6 lowball. I did OK but had my eye on holdem even then. I bought Sklansky’s books in 1981 at Gambler’s Book Club just in case (I was a mostly a backgammon player).
Anyway, I’d probably remember you but I already am getting into the fist stages of Alzheimer’s. I’m no computer geek but I’ll elaborate on what I think is the best way to view the forum.
Using Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5:
1) Go to the home page and select a forum. After the message index loads, point the mouse over it and right click. One of the selections should read “Open Frame In New Window”. Click on this and the frame should expand to the whole screen.
2) Now go to the top of the MS IE 5 Menu and select “Favorites”. Then select “Add to Favorites”.
3) Repeat this for all the forums you are interested in.
4) Once this is done, go to “Favorites” and select “Organize Favorites”. I made a Folder called “2+2 Links” and moved them all there. While you are at it you can organize all your porn links and so on ;-).
Anyway, once this is done you get each forum on a full screen and when you refresh it goes back to the top of the index rather than to the home page. Good luck and email me if you have questions or want me to figure out how to do it in Netscape Navigator.
Regards,
Rick
Thanks for your effort to educate the uneducated. I have to mull this over. Its probably me with the suspect memory. My father was ill at the time and i I came to LA in the winters to help my mom care for him. Every evening I headed to the Bike to play 5-10 or just relax. You were one of the few tough players at that limit and I remember vaguely remember some of your biography so I figure we must have talked at times. After my father passed on I spent 2 more winters in Cal but played at the High Desert Casino in Adalanto because of the intro of antes to the 5-10 games.
.
I am a frequent and well-known poster who has participated in this forum for a long time. Now I need some advice and need to post this anonymously.
Note that this is being written on behalf of a close friend (CF) who is extremely concerned about the following two episodes of harassment that occurred in a Los Angeles Area Card Club. I have provided my own advice but would appreciate some independent opinions from those on the forum who may have some expertise.
The first episode occurred a few weeks ago and seemed minor at the time. I was playing at the same table with CF at the club in question and was on the change to the other game. A long time card club denizen (LTCCD), who I know only in that I have played with her a several times over the years, was chatting with CF at the other end of the table. It seemed friendly and I took little notice. Later LTCCD busted out and hung around a bit. Later LTCCD came up to CF and whispered something into CF’s ear (CF was now on my left). I then found out that LTCCD claimed she remembered that she had loaned CF $500 or so nine years ago at the bar of another club and wanted it back now that CF is back in the clubs. Note that CF only started playing a few years ago and never saw LTCCD nor has CF ever been involved in money lending or borrowing at the clubs. LTCCD had moved off so we took little note of it at the time.
Recently CF went to this same club (I was not present) and was playing 15/30 holdem and on the list for the 20/40 holdem. LTCCD was playing the 15/30. This time LTCCD was much more aggressive and publicly mentioned the alleged debt. CF became a bit flustered and indicated that this was not true CF took the change to the 20/40 when in came up. LTCCD followed CF to the 20/40 holdem and repeated the accusation, and even had another person (who was hanging around) come up to CF and vaguely threaten CF.
CF did not call management and decided to leave earlier than planned. LTCCD made a big show of pointing at CF as CF left and whispered in whomever’s ear was handy. Naturally CF was very humiliated and upset. CF called me later and I gave my advice. I’ll keep my advice private so as not to prejudice those with perhaps better advice on the forum.
CF is now a winning player and does not want to be driven away from any club but is concerned about the way a reputation can be ruined by false accusation. I have found out the following about LTCCD:
1) LTCCD is a veteran but mediocre player who once played the biggest games (including Asian style games) and is somewhat popular with management since she drops quite a bit of money around the clubs. She may or may not have much money now.
2) LTCCD is much better known than CF around the clubs. Two members of management that I have talked to (not at the club in question) have indicated that they haven’t had problems with LTCCD over the years.
3) LTCCD does appear to drink quite a bit so LTCCD could be mistaking CF for someone else. On the other hand, CF is almost too nice for the clubs and LTCCD may think she found someone who she could intimidate into a payoff.
Note that CF is an excellent customer who never complains, never abuses the help, behaves graciously, and is quite popular considering the limited time CF has played. CF has become a winning player in large part to reading and participating in the forum. But CF is not as well known as LTCCD and keeps private life private.
How should CF handle this situation if LTCCD approaches CF again? Note that avoiding this particular club is not an option since LTCCD frequents most clubs in the area. All advice and comments are appreciated.
if someone were to similarly accuse me of absconding on a loan, i'd simply deny te accusations when they made publically and ignore it when they are made privately. it would not bother be to be thought a scoundrel by a gaggle of strangers. if i were threatened i'd repsond in kind.
but, from what i gather of your close friend's personality, this is not the optimum method.
if it can be argued (ie cf can prove cf was not involved in poker at the time of the alleged debt or better yet not in la) in court, then it may be possible to get an injuction or something. i think this is a bad idea.
if a hostile enviorment in unprofitable or upsetting less than giving away $500, it may be best to just pay her. i also think this is a bad idea.
here is an idea. typically people who loan also borrow. if it common knowledge that she drinks, perhaps cf can convince her and any surrounding audience that cf really lent her the money. whenever ltccd mentions the debt, cf could just say something like "i had long since resigned ever getting my money back, but you remember it all wrong. i lent you the $500." and then earnestly bager her for it as if cf actually had the intention of getting the money.
i think that is so crazy it just might work. if by some chance ltccd actually gives cf the money, clearly give it to charity to avoid a bad conscience.
of course, maybe just calmly explaining the situation to ltccd might work. no one really believes their memory to be infallible after 9 years. especially we drinkers.
i hope everything works out ok.
scott
scott wrote
here is an idea. typically people who loan also borrow. if it common knowledge that she drinks, perhaps cf can convince her and any surrounding audience that cf really lent her the money. whenever ltccd mentions the debt, cf could just say something like "i had long since resigned ever getting my money back, but you remember it all wrong. i lent you the $500." and then earnestly bager her for it as if cf actually had the intention of getting the money.
i think that is so crazy it just might work. if by some chance ltccd actually gives cf the money, clearly give it to charity to avoid a bad conscience.
I don't understand the give it to charity stuff.
When I successfully checkraise bluff on the river I make no such donations.
If it were me I'd make her an offer she can't refuse - but since it isn't.
I'd recommend ignoring her if she makes the charge openly at a table I'd just say "I just met you for the 1st time a few days ago and you are full of shit - so shut up and play cards."
nm
Rounder,
CF is very well mannered and has never used foul language. CF was quite flabbergasted during the episode. CF did deny the debt in front of the players at the table (not as strongly as you stated) but was so flustered that CF may have looked guilty in the eyes of the others present. CF had only played in this club a few times, was winning big that day, and wanted to stay longer since the game was good.
Because LTCCD was a local favorite and has a reputation as a "live one", CF probably sensed that he or she was at a disadvantage. What CF needs to know is what to do next time this happens, not what he or she should have done that time?
CF ought to say to the lying sack of manure - loud and clear that she doesn't owe her anyhing.
If she has a friend that is a lawyer she should have the lawyer call or better yet write the casino and tell them she is being badgered and defrauded in their club and they have a resposnibility to protect their players.
I hope she gets out of this mess soon.
Mike
Concerned,
I work as a Floorman at Hollywood Park Casino. Note that the card club will not be concerned whether or not the debt is valid. What they will or should be concerned with is that LTCCD chose a public place (their casino) to harass CF.
Since the first time was private, there was not much CF could do except to explain to LTCCD that she must be mistaken. Perhaps you should have advised CF to at least notify the Floorman then and there. But LTCCD was quiet about it and quickly left. That should have been the end of it.
During the second incident, LTCCD was also seated at the table with your friend, so the situation is a little dicey (BTW, I have never seen such an incident between two seated players). I can understand that CF may have been intimidated and decided to leave rather than confront and clear it up then. Unfortunately, a little damage may have already been done to CF’s reputation in that CF was not forceful enough in denying both the debt and knowing LTCCD then and there.
If LTCCD approaches CF again in any card club (except to apologize), CT should immediately ask the Floorman to get the Shift Manager. CF should not speak to LTCCD. If the Floorman hesitates, CF should tell the Floorman that it is urgent and that CF has been threatened and harassed and it is serious. When the Shift Manager arrives, CF should let him know in no uncertain terms that CF does not know LTCCD. CF should clearly state that this player is harassing CF for a debt that doesn’t exist. If it is the same card club, CF should make reference but not emphasize the preceding incident. CF should also emphasize that he or she was humiliated and embarrassed.
If the Shift Manager is following proper procedure, LTCCD will be asked to leave. If the Shift Manager is reluctant to act, CF should insist that security be called. If he doesn’t, CF needs advice from a lawyer rather than a mere Floorman. Where is Greg Raymer or skp when you need them ;-) ?.
Regards and Good Luck,
Rick
PS: With all these acronyms, I feel like I’m back working in aerospace.
probably better than mine. but following mine would be more fun.
scott
Rick wrote: >Where is Greg Raymer or skp when you need them ;-) ?.
I don't think that there is much here that is suitably dealt with by a lawyer or the law. Unless the LTCCD goes beyond saying "you owe me money", there is little of benefit to be achieved by involving us evil types (i.e., lawyers).
Theoretically, you could sue the LTCCD for slander. However, you wouldn't have any damages of consequence that can be proven, so you might win, and be awarded $0 by the judge. And, even if you won some piddly amount, it would never be enough to cover expenses (not even close). And, it would likely just infuriate LTCCD, maybe to take things further. Even though I'm a lawyer (maybe because), it is my frequent opinion that doing things without a lawyer is typically best.
I agree with CF either defending their cause more aggressively by stating the falsity of the accusations loudly and clearly, or involving the floorman.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
..to "Get the f*** out of my f***** face, you stinky c*** and never f**** talk to me again."
People are too nice and they put with this kinda crap, esp. if they're worried that the harasser is somehow "connected". He should complain to mgmnt immediately, he should tell everyone he plays with that LTCCD is a skanky ho and a lying sack of s***, and as for Vaguely Threatening Boy(VTB), CF should tell him, "Listen m******f****, if you even look at me wrong ever again, I'm calling the cops immediately".
The stuff people put with, ESPECIALLY in poker rooms, slays me, absolutely slays me. Stuff happens in them that would never be tolerated for a second in any other business, sport or recreational activity, but I guess it can only happen to you if you let it.
sounds like she believes it so either its a mistake or he does owe her. most likely a mistake. he needs to try to get her to realize that he is not the person whom she thinks he is. if she is not convinced and continues to harrss either ignore , complain, or take swift action.
I'm not inclined to give this SB (Skanky Bitch) the benefit of the doubt that she is simply mistaking CF for someone else. I think she has him pegged as a possible mark and has discerned that since he's a nice guy (and somewhat self-effacing--am I right?), he wouldn't raise much of a stink about this harrassment and might, just might, pay her off to make her go away.
The above advice to deal with this problem via cardroom management is on target. However, I feel it also wouldn't work as she is a regular and is worth thousands of $$$ to the card club(s); PROBABLY MORE THAN YOUR FRIEND IS. Furthermore, it would be his word against hers. The card casinos are so greedy that given a choice between alienating SB and your friend, they might very well choose your friend.
If it were ME getting bothered is such a fashion MY solution would be quick, brutal, simple, and involve bone breakage, lacerations, blood, gouging, kicking, etc. Or at least the sincere and meaningful threat thereof. However, I sense your friend is too mild-mannered to consider such a solution. So the best favor you can do him is to one day soon quietly take aside the SBLTCCD and calmly inform her that she will soon be DOA if she doesn't F.O. (you can figure that one out) and leave your friend CF alone. You can also complain to management, but I feel it's more effective to complain directly to SBLTCCD, using a baseball bat if necessary.
There's only one kind of language these semi-human scumwads understand.
isnt that a little harsh Kevin. what you are advocating is akin to sending in Rounder with Chris's new gun.
You may remember a Pulitzer-prize-winning photo, showing the Saigon chief of police dealing with a captured Viet Cong spy by shooting him in the head. I feel this is an excellent way to deal with those who make their way in the world by preying on others. Their net worth is profoundly negative, and their only value to society is in the profession of Organ Donor (thus the recommended head shot).
As I said, I don't believe any appeals to decency, reason, or compassion work with people like this. The only thing they respect or understand is force, and the assurance that it will be used against them if their predatory acts continue. This behavior can be exhibited by any individual or group of individuals all the way up to nation-states. Remember Soviet Russia? Remember what the only effective tool for dealing with them was?
Kevin,
Right now you're in the same boat as those who practice vigilante justice. It's not the penalty that's the problem, it's the lack of ability to ACCURATELY judge the alleged offenders.
I have no problem with taking a guy who just raped a little girl out to the oak tree and hanging him. The problem arises when the little girl SAYS she was raped, the guy gets killed, and no one ever reliably proved that she was telling the truth, and that she hadn't misidentified her attacker, etc.
In the present situation, we still don't know that LTCCD hasn't just made an honest (albeit stupid) mistake. You are assuming she's being predatory, but she might just have a faulty memory and an onerous personality. I don't like these faults, but I don't batter someone for them either.
Once you have proven that LTCCD is acting predatorily with knowledge that her accusation is false, then I'll help you bat her. Until then, other avenues of action will be preferable.
later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Jeez, some of the advice you're getting...
First, your friend needs to have a FRIENDLY talk with her. She may honestly believe this, so the time isn't right to tear a strip off of her. He should go up to her and ask her to talk privately, then say, "give me the details of this debt - where was it, why did you loan the money, and why do you think it was me?" Then your friend needs to calmly explain why it couldn't be him. During this process, if she gets hostile, he should simply stand his ground and say something like, "I have never failed to repay a loan in my life. It's a matter of honor with me. I have spent a lifetime building a reputation as someone with character. If you insist on continuing to harass me in public and damage that reputation, I'll be forced to take action first with the house, and then in the legal system if I have to."
If your friend starts calling her a Skanky B*tch like others would suggest, it's just going to further tar his reputation. The way to win arguments like this is to remain cool and rational, so that outside observers can judge just who is being unreasonable. If he engages in shouting matches with her, people will simply write BOTH of them off as a couple of bad risks. You never win arguments like this in the court of public opinion.
And as Rick said, the house should never allow personal arguments like this at the table. It's bad for the game. So find a floorman, take him aside privately, and explain the situation. Don't call him to the table and force him to a decision while everyone is yelling, or he may make a bad one. Give him the facts privately, ask him nicely to please police his game, and let him do his job. If he won't, go higher up the food chain and complain there.
I guess we're just too polite, Dan. The 'Mericans are ready to nuke the bitch, and we're advocating diplomacy. Kinda says it all,eh?
test
After I checked in on Tuesday evening, I decided to eat dinner at the Orleans buffet. I thought it was reasonably priced at $10 compared to the buffets on the strip. They had a wide variety of foods to choose from.
That evening, I went upstairs to the poker room and played a $40 Omaha 8B satellite and two $100 No-Limit Hold'em satellites. After playing the Omaha 8B satellite, I decided that I would never play one again. I do not see how any skilled player could make a profit playing these. Anyway, I got caught bluffing and exited 6th place in the first No-Limit Hold'em satellite, and I came kind of close, I guess that's called 2nd place in the other. Would you believe I played four-deuce offsuit and caught two fours on the flop? Well, I did, but now I had only 25% of the chips. Eventually, I lost. The chip leader kept on pushing his whole stack in on every hand. I only mucked my blind hands a few times, but I should have pushed it in on every hand just to give myself a chance. I had a deuce or trey on every hand I had. That was plenty of action for today.
On Wednesday I played the Omaha 8B noon tournament. I made it to the last four tables, was quartered twice, and lost the last two hands. The sad part about it was I lost with very good hands. The last hand I played was As Qd 3c 2d. I was in early position and came in for a raise, a guy with a mountain of chips called, and the blinds folded. The flop hit me with a queen, I put the rest of chips in the pot, but my opponent called and caught a king on the river for a pair. Although I lost, I felt that I had played the tournament well considering the size of the field and caliber of players. It was now 6:10 p.m. I decided to skip dinner and enter the 7:00 p.m. No-Limit Hold'em tournament.
While I was looking for my table, I spotted a guy that looked like Rounder from the 2+2 forum. I approached him and asked, Are you Mike? Sure enough, it was Rounder. We exchanged a few friendly words and then I sat down and played the tournament. An hour after the rebuy period I busted out with ace-queen against a pair of eights. My opponent caught another two eights, I got no help at all. Nice catch. Urrgh.
After the tournament, I decided to play a $40 No-Limit Hold'em satellite. I saw Rounder (Mike) again and we both signed up for the same satellite. I'll have to say that Rounder practices what he preaches on the forum. He plays a solid game. No visible tells either. Anyway, we were down to five players. I think the blinds were $25 and $50. I was short stacked, in early position; I had ace-queen, and limped in. Hoping someone would raise, so I could push the rest of my chips in preflop. Well, Rounder had the big blind and checked. The flop was ace-ten-trey rainbow. To my surprise, Rounder bet and I tossed in the rest of my chips. He showed me his ten-trey and took down the pot. It was my fault, I let him in for a free play and he got a lucky flop.
Since, I had not eaten dinner, I asked the poker room floor manager for a food comp, and ate the late night steak and eggs for 2.99. I thought it was a good deal for the price. The Orleans had some other specials. Now, this is like the way the old Vegas used to be. Free and decent food.
On Thursday afternoon I played the $160 No-Limit Hold'em tournament with unlimited rebuys. I started out with $600 in tournament chips, lost it with ace-king, and did a rebuy. I did another rebuy as soon as I lost a blind just so I would have enough chips to cripple one of the big stacks.
The tournament director announces that this is the last hand before the break. I'm in late position with pocket jacks, a few players come in before me for $100 each and the guy right behind me makes it $1000. Everyone folds to me. I've got $1125 left and now I must make a decision. If I fold and do an add-on I will have $1625, which would be ok, but not great, but if I move-in and lose I can still do a rebuy and add-on and have $1200, but if I win and do an add-on I will have $3325 in tournament chips. I decided to move-in for several reasons. My opponent could be just using his position to pick up the pot, he could have just ace-king, or I could be in real trouble if he has pocket aces, kings, or queens. But, I thought that it was more important to try and gain a substantial chip lead at this point. It looks like I got lucky, I caught a jack on the flop and my opponent had kings, which did not improve.
After the break, I played another interesting hand. Several players limp in for the blind. I've got pocket treys on the button and call. The flop comes ace-ace-ten rainbow. Under the gun bets $100 and everyone folds up to me. From observing his play he could be bluffing or he may have a real hand. I decide to call. If a trey comes on the turn I could possibly win a lot of chips. He had about $2400. On the turn a queen comes off. Now, I don't like the board at all, but surprisingly my opponent checks. My first thoughts at this point are he's got ace-queen and he's trying to trap me, so I check. On the river comes a trey giving me treys full of aces. But, I still don't like my hand. My opponent bets $300. I decide that there is a good possibility that he just has three aces, so I called. He turns over ace-king and I take down the pot.
It was now four hours into the tournament and I was seated at a new table. I had $3000 left, but all of my opponents had at least double that amount. The blinds were $100 and $200. I'm in middle position with pocket jacks and open for $500. A late position player makes it $1500. Everyone folds to me. I don't have a good read on this player, but I decide to move all-in. I did it for several reasons. According to the board there's still 208 players left. If I'm going to win, I have to gamble a bit to build my stack. He could have just a smaller pair and because of his tight image could be trying to intimidate me. Well, he thinks for a few seconds, I almost thought he was going to fold, but decides to call me. He turns over his cards immediately on the flop-pocket kings. The board didn't help me, so I mucked my hand without showing it.
After I busted out, I asked the poker room floor manager for a couple of food comps. I ate dinner at the buffet. I needed a good meal to make me feel better after blowing all that dough on that stupid tournament. After dinner, I decided to go back to the poker room to play some satellites.
I played a $40 No-Limit Hold'em Satellite and busted out quickly. Then I saw Rounder (Mike) getting ready to play a $40 Limit Hold'em satellite. So, I decided to sit down and play this one. Me, Rounder, and another player ended up doing a three way split. Then Rounder and I signed up for a $40 No-Limit satellite. I ended up beating Rounder on two hands. Both times I had the big blind. On the first hand he had ace-king and I had pocket sixes. The next time he had pocket kings and I had the ace-trey of hearts. Note that, when I played the ace-trey we were down to five players. Now, I was getting lucky. I flopped two pair. When there was just two of us left, we decided to split the win evenly. By the way, Rounder had played his hands correctly each time. After I won with the ace-trey, I did not see Rounder anymore. But, I enjoyed meeting and talking with him.
On Friday afternoon, I took the shuttle to the strip, played a little slots, and went shopping at Caesars. After walking all afternoon on the strip, I decided to go back to the Orleans and register for the evening No-Limit Hold'em tournament. While waiting in line, I met Diane from Green Bay and signed her up for the tournament, so she could go back to her ring game and rake in the dough.
Before the tournament, I decided to get a cheeseburger and fries at Terrible Mikes. They will grill your burger the way you want it and you can top it yourself.
Well, I didn't last too long in this evening's tournament. I really screwed up badly. All that walking in the sun must have tired me out. I fell for a trap that I could have easily avoided. Early in the tournament, blinds are $25 and $15, I limp in under the gun with pocket aces, late position player and small blind call, big blind checks. The flop comes Td-7c-4c. I bet $50, late position player calls, and the blinds fold. I immediately put him on a flush draw. On the turn is an eight of spades. I bet $100 and the other guy raises all-in. Without thinking clearly, I push in my last $300. Well, guess what he has? He flopped a set of sevens. I could not believe that I did that. What was I thinking? The next foolish thing I did was rebuy and lost that within fifteen minutes. Now, I know I was not thinking.
After the tournament I decided to go play a $40 No-Limit Satellite. I was the first one out. It was time to quit. I decided to get a cup of coffee and go to my room. After I rested for awhile, I decided to go back to the poker room and play some satellites. I played another satellite and busted out of that one too. There was a player at the table who gave me a hard sell on John Feeney's book. He finally talked me into buying it for $20. By the way, his name was Chico. Maybe, he works for Mason. Anyway, I played one more satellite and ended up coming in 2nd place for my $40 back. I decided to go eat breakfast. Steak and eggs again.
I slept in late on Saturday. Went to the poker room about noon and met Diane from Green Bay. She told me she had made it to the last four tables last night. I thought that was pretty good considering there were more than 250 players in the tournament. Well, it looks like I have another player to fear at the tables.
The noon Limit Hold'em Tournament was in progress. I asked Diane if she knew Greg Raymer (Fossilman). I wanted to know who he was, since I had bought 10% of him for tomorrow's tournament. We looked around the tables and found him with his fossils. It was 12:30 and he was already down some chips, but that's limit hold'em and I have my money on him for tomorrow in the no-limit tournament.
That evening, I played the Omaha 8B tournament. Guess who's sitting at my table? In seat number one was Fossilman. Anyway, I was off to a good start. I won a big giant pot that I thought was going to get split. Before the end of the first break, a guy comes over to our table and starts chatting with Fossil. Then, I find out its Vince Lepore. Anyway, the tournament was going well for me, until it was down to the last three tables. I ended up losing the last four hands I played and finished 27th. They only paid 20 places, but I was satisfied with how I had played the tournament. The only regret I have, is I should have asked Fossil if he was interested in a last longer bet.
Later that evening, I met Vince again and we talked for awhile about poker and the Two Plus Two Forum while we were watching the final table from the noon limit hold'em tournament.
On Sunday afternoon I played a little double deck blackjack. I cashed out $55 ahead and decided to go check on the tournament to see how Fossil was handling the opposition. Well, I found him playing in a live game. I guess he did not last too long, but I'm sure he tried his best to win. After all, it was mostly Ray Zee's money anyway. Maybe, I can get Ray to back me someday at the WSOP for an Omaha tournament.
In the evening, I decided to go to the Stratosphere and play the $35 No-Limit Hold'em tournament. There was a lot of loose action at my table. I recognized a few good players form the Orleans tournaments. Sitting on my right was a nice lady from Australia. She asked me if I was from Las Vegas. I replied, "No, I'm here on vacation." We both chatted throughout the tournament, and I carefully observed her play. She played fairly well, but was easy for me to read. As the tournament progressed, my opinion of her plays changed. She actually played better than I first thought. I watched her play against a loose aggressive player and she picked him off. Now, I was going to have to be careful, if I got involved in a hand with her.
Eventually, we both play a hand together. The blinds are $50 and $100 with a $25 ante. I've got the big blind with an unsuited five-six, then everyone folds up to her, and she calls. The flop comes Kd-Jd-9c and she checks. Against the typical average player I would bet after it was checked to me. She had $2400 in chips and I had only $700 left. I decided to check, because if she really had a hand I knew she would bet on the turn. Furthermore, I thought that if I made the typical bet on the flop she may call thinking I was bluffing, and I did not want to risk losing any more chips. On the turn came a seven of clubs, she checked again. Now, I was convinced that she just wanted to show the hand down, so it was time to make my move. I figured that she had some experience playing pot-limit hold'em. I waited to make my move on the turn, because I wanted her to think I was slowplaying a monster hand trying to trap her, so I decided to bet $400 which was slightly less than the pot. Well, it worked. She showed me one of her cards to get my reaction, the seven of spades, and mucked her hand. After, I raked in the pot she said, "You were bluffing, weren't you? " I decided to lie, of course, and said I had jack-deuce. Do you think she believed me?
The tournament was soon over for me. In late position, I moved all-in with an ace-jack and was called by a woman in the big blind. I caught a jack, but she had a pair of nines and made a set. After the tournament, I went back to the Orleans and watched the final table of the noon no limit hold'em tournament.
On Monday morning I ate breakfast with Diane and everyone she had invited. Fossilman was there, but Vince did not show up.
In the afternoon, I decided to watch some of the action at TOC. It looked like Fossilman had a rough line up at his table. John Bonetti, Ken Flaton, and Kathy Liebert just to drop a few names. During the 4:00 p.m. break I was waiting in line to get some coffee at Seattle Coffee and overheard Kathy Liebert trying to get a couple of players to make last longer bets with her for $500. I guess they weren't interested Kathy. If it was a smaller bet, I would have bet Fossil to outlast you.
The last tournament I was going to play was the evening Omaha 8B tournament, but I found out it was cancelled. I was disappointed that they cancelled it. So, I decided to go to the Mirage and play the $60 Limit Hold'em tournament.
Now, I remember why I don't like Limit Hold'em tournaments. Anyway, I had most of my good hands ruined, but pocket aces and ace-queen did hold up. After the rebuy period was over, I was moved to a new table. I was lucky enough to have opponents on each side of me that were easy to read. I stole quite often from the guy on my left. Here's one of my bolder plays. I'm in late position and limp in with ace-trey of hearts. The guy I've been stealing from on my right raises, the blinds fold, and I call. I know that this player will raise with a wide variety of hands, even if they are not that good. I figure if the flop scares him, I'll be able to steal the pot. The flop comes king-king-four rainbow. I decide that I'm going to play this hand just like S&M recommend in their shorthanded section in their hold'em book. I bet out on the flop, and my opponent hesitantly calls. Now, I know he does not like the flop. His hesitation told me I'd probably be able to steal it from him on the turn. On the turn another king falls off. I bet again. He thinks for about ten seconds and folds.
After the tournament, I went back to the Orleans to see how Fossil was doing in the tournament. When I was coming up the escalator I saw Vince. Then he introduced me to the poker guru himself-David Sklansky. I shook David's hand and exchanged a few words and he briskly walked back to the poker room to continue playing in the tournament. I decided to watch him for awhile, not to really learn anything, but to make sure that I would remember what he looks like. You'll never know who your opponents will be at the poker table. David kind of looks like his photographs on the Two Plus Two books, but I would have never recognized him on my own.
I walked out into the hallway outside the poker room and talked with Vince. He introduced me to another Two Plus Two poster named Dan-Dangerous Dan. Well, it was not much longer and David was out of the tournament. He lost with ace-king.
Nice report, I like reading this stuff. Better luck next time.
Enjoyed meeting you to Mark. I still can't get over the number of times I got AA (7) & KK (2) cracked heads up - well maybe we'll both get the run of the cards next time.
Mike
Mike,
One of these days I think we'll both get a run of good cards that will hold up and we'll win something big. That will make up for all the bad runs.
BillM,
Although, I only won a little bit with a few satellite splits, I enjoyed the trip very much. This trip was a little unusual, because I had met quite a few of the posters from this board.
Whenever I go on a trip to play tournaments, I strickly stay away from ring games, not that I don't like playing them, but I try to put my best effort into playing the tournaments. I can play ring game poker anytime on the boats here in the midwest.
Unlike others that get spoiled from winning, I expect a high variance. The average field for all the tournaments was more than 250 players. I don't care how skilled you are, you still have to get lucky to make it to the final table.
You should have told Kathy that you'd make the bet for whatever amount you wanted. As soon as you told her it was me, she's have taken the bet. I made a bad play against her during the World Poker Finals, and got lucky to cripple her during a 2-table Midnight Madness satellite. While she knows I'm not a total mook, I'm pretty sure she considers me just a slightly above average amateur.
As for other mentions of me in your report, they all appear accurate. My results for tournament play were poor, with no cash finishes in 6 events. The only one of the 6 that I did well in, so to speak, was the TOC, by outlasting some 85% or so of the field. In the NL event on Sunday, I had an early rush and got my stack from the starting T2K up to T6K. I then split 2 pots of 3K each, first with AA vs. AA (no bad beat there, just disappointing to get it all in preflop with AA and not win), then with my AQ vs. KQ where he caught running nines to put 3 nines on the board and negate my kicker advantage. I then lost some big pots on bad beats, and that was that.
Thank god for those juicy pot limit cash games. While some of them are very skillful, those European players do like to play, shall we say, a high variance style.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Greg,
That's the best image for you to have, let them think you're a wannabe shmuck. You'll catch them off guard and win a big prize someday. First impressions last, so let them think you are a bad player. I know you'll be working on your game and play even more skillful next year. Next time, I'll make the bet with her.
I thought you did pretty well for the TOC.
Mark- Great report. I am glad we got to spend some time together. And I did appreciate your buying in for me for the second chance tournment.
Thank goodness for friends
Diane
Diane,
Thanks for reading the report. I'm sure you'll do a favor for me in the future. See you next time.
mah
"After the tournament I decided to go play a $40 No-Limit Satellite. I was the first one out... I played another satellite and busted out of that one too... There was a player at the table who gave me a hard sell on John Feeney's book. He finally talked me into buying it for $20.... I played one more satellite and ended up coming in 2nd place for my $40 back."
You see, the book helped immediately.
That's what Chico said it would do too. He told me to read one page. Amazing! Anyway, I did start reading it on the plane ride home.
If you want to check out an awesome short film, follow the link below. This film was created by two guys with a camcorder, their home PC's, and some digital editing software.
The movie is fascinating and hilarious. And almost nothing you see is real.
Dan,
This was great. I also enjoyed the fact that you could easily chose between media players (e.g., Realplyer v Windows Media Player v Quicktime) and compare the results.
BTW, I've bookmarked "The Straight Dope" and almost caught up with most of Cecil's wisdom and wit after a lapse of many years. Thanks for that one too.
I would think you would find this week's column by Cecil on Recycling interesting. There was a great article several years ago in Atlantic Monthly called “Garbage” by a Professor Rathje of the University of Arizona. It became the following book that is unfortunately out of print according to Amazon:
Link to the Book “Rubbish! : The Archaeology of Garbage”
Unfortunately, I couldn’t find a link to the article in the Atlantic Monthly’s online archives. It was from 1989. Anyway, A month or two after I read the article, a national news anchor turned “end of newscast commentator” solemnly stated that the nation only has five years of landfill space left. That statement was true then, was true ten years before, is true now, and will be true several years from now. What this genius forgot to tell you is that the average landfill has a lifespan of ten years. Since we are always closing and opening new landfills, having “only” five years left should be the norm.
Regards,
Rick
Yeah, the landfill 'shortage' is really a matter of transportation and not environment. Some congested areas have used up immediately local landfill space,and now have to truck the stuff out farther. Thus costs go up. This is the way the market is supposed to work. Unfortunately, government gets in the way of this process and disconnects the price system, which screws everything up.
I was a big supporter of free-market reforms to help cure the landfill 'problem'. Unfortunately, most environmental groups were not. When they ran into a conflict between the environment and their generally leftist politics, politics usually won out.
As I saw it, the only 'problem' is that garbage is basically government subsidized, which causes an artificial glut of it. Just find a way to tie a person's garbage output to the cost of getting rid of it, and throw out all those other government mandates. If the price of hauling garbage goes up, not only will that spur innovation in product packaging (because now there's a competitive advantage in selling a product that doesn't incur after-use costs), but the increased profit in maintaining a landfill will open up new sites and make it financially feasible to reclaim older sites. The wonders of the free market.
I loved Cecil's column where he talks about the numerous Eskimo words for 'snow'. He decided to build an eskimo sentence for, "Look at all this f*cking snow!". He managed, "Observe the snow. It fornicates."
If you want to see how that '405' movie was made, check out their home page: www.405themovie.com
I knew the plane had to be CGI. It really surprised me that the Jeep was too. I never noticed it.
Dan,
A very nice little film; Ebert gave it a thumb up a few weeks ago. Probably better than most Hollywood trash.
By the way, as far as translations go, Perdue's slogan, "It takes a tough man to make a tender chicken" was transliterated into Spanish as "It takes a sexually aroused man to make a chicken amorous." No wonder Purdue's sales didn't take off as expected.
John
I hate when that happens.
Word on the street is that you guys changed your plans and are now going up to Turning Stone this weekend. Is this true?
Bah - I can't go this weekend, but if you guys are leaving later than 1:00 PM on Wednesday the 16th I can make it...
Ah well - make lots of money in either case ;)
~Krister
Krister -- Did you pay that pizza debt? I would not tarry too long on that. I believe Scott has a blade.
Krister! That Commie-Nazi! He's still holding out on his pizza debt. He even owes me $5 and the movie theater won't take Krister cash.
As for the cold steel of Scott's "blade", the number of eyes that I've almost lost to it is greater than one but less than three.
Niels! That lying scum thieving punk wussy rotbrain zombie mook! The pizza debt has been paid - remember the calzones from Il Forno? Trying to get my cash blacklisted from the restaurants as well as the movie theaters?
I may or may not owe you five dollars - but remind me when I have it on my and I'll probably pay it, if just to help your family get your sister off the street and into that clinic they've been talking about.
Cya Wednesday
~Krister
First of all, let me just say I'm not coming up there with you guys, as I've had my fill of that place for a while. I went there on wednesday at 3:00 optimistically, thinking I'd get a good 7-8 hours of 5-10 in before leaving at 11. Somewhat impatiant, I put my name up for every game below 15-30. It was 4:45 before I finally got into a game of 3-6 hold-em. And It was the most boring game I ever played in to boot. Nothing could get these little old ladies to fold a hand, I've never been more drawn out on in my life, and I'm supposed to be the crazy one. Anyways, talking to these people, I find out half the people at the table are waiting for 5-10 to open up, which they refuse to open despite three tables of 3-6. Finally, after 3 more hours of mind numbing boredom and about $150 they ask if our table wanted to switch to 5-10, to which one guy stood up and said "About damn time!". So unfortunately I only got to play 5-10 for 2 and a half hours but ended up $100 up overall, but the floor managers there really suck. oh well, I'm going to bed.
Mark
Does anyone have any creative suggestions for "living below your means"? I make decent money, but I never seem to be spending enough.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Move to Montana and build a small shack - let your hair grow and ride a bike to town for dried beef jerkey.
Just kidding. I don't spend much money except on travel I take about 15 trips a year. I'm not a millionaire but like to live like one.
Hollybull,
I think you need to concentrate on saving enough rather than "spending enough".
Regards,
Rick
Oops...I meant SAVING enough!
HollyBull,
OK, you meant saving money. Here are a few of mine.
1) Forget about bottled water in most areas. The health benefits are questionable at best. After all, what is Evian spelled backwards? Besides, in France you can't even drink the water. I go with a Tupperware jug and keep mine refilled straight from the faucet and keep it in the fringe.
2) Never buy overpriced merchandise with logos. I have a friend with over a dozen Hard Rock Café and Planet Hollywood jackets gathering dust in her closet. I wouldn’t have even bought the first one. They should pay ME to advertise for them.
3) Those 99-cent burger deals are money losers at the fast food chains. Let them lose money and stick to those. Hold the mayo and cheese if you want to save on calories. Keep a water bottle (filled from the faucet) in your car. A camping bottle from REI can withstand freezing so you can rotate them to quench thirst.
4) In clothing, stick with the basics. Buy half decent quality. Your first suit should be dark gray or blue. Stick to classic colors that match well with anything. Dress socks should be black. Of course, I assume you are a guy. With women, all logic goes out the window.
5) Understand where the best point on the bang for the buck curve is. In cars, I think it is in the Honda Accord, Ford Taurus price range. In computers, you will find that about 70% of the speed of cutting edge can be had for about 1/3 the price.
6) Understand the concept of marginal utility. For example, I have eight to ten short- sleeved casual shirts at all times (I tend to go with the cotton polo style). Twenty would not be twice as good and may even by worse, as the last would be dusty by the time I wore it. Old, worn out polo shirts are my T-shirts for hanging around the house. In fact, I don’t think I have bought five T-shirts in my life, and have never bought one with a logo (I’m eccentric about logos).
7) Do keep at least two weeks of underwear and socks. Then you don’t have to do laundry so much.
8) Buy storable consumable items on sale, with coupons, and in bulk. For example, at one time I went three years getting my toothpaste and deodorant for free with double coupons (actually, the state gets full tax here on the left coast). I rarely go to the grocery store because I ran out of a non-perishable staple.
9) Do buy things you enjoy and get a lot of use out of. When I’m on line, I’m listening to great music being played through my computer with MusicMatch Jukebox software and Cambridge Soundworks MicroWorks Speakers. The speakers are top of the line for a computer and used to cost about $300 but they are about $150 these days (go to www.hifi.com). Factory seconds are available at Ebay for about $90 (that’s what I paid a few months ago). That is money well spent IMHO!
10) Don’t buy single use kitchen appliances like waffle makers, pasta makers, and so on. They usually end up gathering dust and you can always go out for waffles. Do invest in good kitchen knifes and pans. My all time worse appliance is the FryDaddy. Just think, you can have unhealthy, expensive (grease costs a lot), messy food at home that is available at every corner.
11) I’m always amazed at newlyweds who want the best china and silver that only gets used a few times a year yet their every day table wear is junk. Near top of the line stainless is a good investment though.
12) Learn to hate things you buy and then sit in the corner gathering dust. Right now I hate the Beck “Odelay” CD. I thought I was getting Jeff Beck when I bought it.
13) If you have a Robert Redford style hairstyle and the right kind of hair, try the Flowbee. I haven’t been to a barber in seven years.
Hope this helps ;-).
Regards,
Rick
Rick,
You might be the only other person in this world with a hatred of logos as strong as mine. Mary bought me a shirt with an almost undetectable logo--it was the same color as the shirt, a kind of relief logo--and I wanted to return it. Occasionaly I've found some good buys with logos I can unstitch and remove, however, so this is a possibility.
John
John,
An unobtrusive logo is fine. A pair of standard Levi Jean’s has a tag about the size of a good booger – that’s OK. The belt hides their other tag with the size on it. The one that gets me the most is this Tommy Hilfinger guy. Have you ever seen what Tommy Hilflnger looks like?
Of course I do wear stuff that is given away for free (or as a gift representing a certain late night wiener joint that is dear to my heart). But if it is card club stuff it never leaves the house. The last thing I want neighbors to know is that I frequent card clubs. They may be honest but who knows about their brother in law.
T-Shirts with sayings on them are the worst of all. Remember Fran Leibowitz? In her book of essays "Metropolitan Life" she said: "If I don't want to talk to you, why would I want to talk to your T-shirt?" She may have used the F word somewhere in there for emphasis but my purity filter removed it.
BTW, I don't think you can save money with the Flowbee though. Too bad, I really do save a lot of money with that one.
Regards,
Rick
Men have always had it better than women in the clothing department. The styles don't change as drastically or as often. It's hard to design them for planned obsolesence, and difficult to convince men that a $100 shirt gives them more status than an identical $15 shirt. Putting the labels on the outside is an attempt to sove both problems.
I have to be right up there in the label-haters club. In high school I would take a razor blade to a new pair of levis, but now I am not so extreme.
Hey, I've got a 1996 Taurus. I guess we think alike.
I also think the best value in cars comes in around the 2-4 year old mark (assuming you want to drive a reasonably nice vehicle). They are through the steepest part of the depreciation curve, yet still look and drive like new. We bought our Taurus last year for $9500, with 28,000 miles on it. It looks and drives like new, and even had some warranty left when we bought it. The new ones are around $24,000 in the same trim level. Five years from now, the $14,500 difference in price will be about $1000, and ten years from now they'll be worth about the same.
I agree completely. I just bought a 1998 Malibu with 45,000 miles for $8990. They even gave me $500 for my 1997 Ford Escort.
The only problem is that I financed it.
you crack me up. >>1) Forget about bottled water in most areas. The >> >>2) Never buy overpriced merchandise with logos. I have >> >>3) Those 99-cent burger deals are money losers at the >>4) In clothing, stick with the basics. Buy half >>5) Understand where the best point on the bang for the buck curve is. In cars, I think it is in the Honda Accord >>7) Do keep at least two weeks of underwear and socks. >>12) Learn to hate things you buy and then sit in the corner gathering dust. >>13) If you have a Robert Redford style hairstyle and the right kind of hair, try the Flowbee. I haven’t been to a barber in seven years.
Pay your bills first, especially the one called "Personal Savings".
My biggest expense is always eating out. I LOVE to eat out. I love having someone bring me good food, take it away when I'm done, and clean up the mess. Restaurants are the greatest service mankind has ever developed. If I cooked at home every time instead of eating out, I'd have been out of debt years ago. So, I guess my biggest word of advice is 'learn to cook'. Either that or keep racking up those dinner comps when you play.
Back in the late 60's and through much of the 70's I used to live a very, very frugally. I had several friends that were into doing the same thing. Here is what we did:
1) We found the cheapest place we could handle to live in. This is a personal preference but be advised you are bound to have some undesirable neighbors at some point.
2) I had no debt whatsoever. If I needed a vehicle I saved the money and paid cash.
3) Eat in as much as possible. Check out the sales at the grocery stores and be adaptable. Also check out some of the fruit and vegetable markets for bargain bins. Yeah eat a lot of veggies. Also scope out the freebies at happy hours and such. I haven't done this in a long time but some were pretty good but they usually didn't have a free meal everyday. Also check out food stamps and learn the system for obtaining them. When we would get our food stamps each month we would invariably treat ourselves to a prepared meal at the supermarket.
4) Somehow you have to have medical coverage. If you can prove you are way below the poverty line a lot of free benefits are available.
5) Get paid in cash as much as possible.
6) Check out the flea markets for stuff you need like clothes and household items.
7) Go camping a lot and definitely take along the fishing gear.
8) Take advantage of hunting season.
"7) Go camping a lot and definitely take along the fishing gear.
8) Take advantage of hunting season."
Man, Tom, this is really getting to the frugal level! :) I guess we could add
Learn about edible plants, trapping, and herbal medicine...
Okay, here are two that will save on medical bills, really. (Unless you have no deductible...)
1) I got a sinus infection sometime around 1990. (I think it actually had to do with playing poker in the smoke.) I went to the doctor, was prescribed an antibiotic, and it went away. I've had a few since then, but have never had to see a doctor. Someone I was talking with told me just to drink huge amounts of water for a day or two, and that that would "flush out" the sinuses and allow the body to rid itself of the infection. Seems to work. The few that I've had since then have all disappeared within a couple of days or so with this method. (Drink enough that you're headed to the bathroom a couple of times an hour for a day or so.)
2) Similar tx for conjunctivitis. This is something you're more likely to contract if you have small children, as you pick up all kinds of stuff from them. I once heard two physician friends, one an opthomologist and the other a GP, debating this. The opthomologist insisted that tyical cases of conjunctivitis did not need the antibiotic drops typically prescribed. He said you could just put a few drops of water (saline? I can't recall.) in the eye every hour or so. My version, since I've had this infection about 3 times in the past few years, is to use Murine Tears drops. Just keep using them a lot for a day or two, and it *usually seems to allow you quickly to fight off the infection yourself pretty fast. On the other hand, the GP friend argued that about one case in 50 or so will develop a more serious infection, thus justifying more aggresive early antibiotic tx. But I live close to an optomitrist, so I don't mind living on the edge. ;-)
Disclaimer: All of that is just uninformed BS and does not constitute medical advice that any sane person would take seriously.
(Drink enough that you're headed to the bathroom a couple of times an hour for a day or so.)
This is good advice anyway. For your body to be performing at a comfortable level, hydration is very solid advice. I realize this is not an overly active forum, but being well hydrated is possibly the most important thing for your health. That and stretching.
Joe
Okay, but I probably understated how much water you need to drink for this cure. You really have to drink a LOT. (Water, that is, Scott.)
>>7) Go camping a lot and definitely take along the fishing gear.
8) Take advantage of hunting season."
Man, Tom, this is really getting to the frugal level! <<
We also raised a couple of pigs, had a few goats, and some chickens as well. It was interesting and mostly fun but I found it to be a lot of work as well. It wore me down and it just became easier to get a paycheck and pay for stuff. However, I sometimes wonder if the casinos in New Mexico were operational and poker would have been available at how things would have ended up.
Consumer interest on credit balances is the single most crippling factor in keeping individuals from achieving economic success.
The interest on consumer debt vehicles (credit cards, bank loans, mortgages, etc.) is triple or quadruple what investmests available to the individual can earn. So, carrying consumer credit balances is like having an ultra powerful anti-investment: one that CONSUMES money.
Yes, but you are forgetting the opportunity costs involved in not borrowing. If most people didn't buy a house until they saved up enough money to pay cash, they would have to live in rented space for 10-30 years, during which time they will have had no equity growth and a poorer lifestyle. In many cases, the equity growth in a home will completely offset the cost of borrowing anyway.
I fully agree when it comes to frivolous purchases, and especially credit card debt. But things like Mortages and Auto loans need to be analyzed more fully.
Opportunity cost is a big deal. A little talked about aspect of saving money is risk, especially for long-term savings. Let's say you decide to save money for your retirement. You put away $500 a month, and expect to have $250,000 when you retire. What is the real expected value of that money? First, there's the obvious inflationary degredation - an investment growing at 5% per year in a country with 5% inflation is not growing at all. But a more powerful factor is the risk that before you get to the point where you can use that investment you will be either infirm or dead.
My grandparents are a perfect example of this: They saved and scrimped their entire lives for their retirement and built up about $400,000 when they sold their farm (my Grandfather was 70, my Grandmother was 68). They had big plans to travel the world and really enjoy their retirement years.
Well, my Grandmother developed extreme arthritis, and was unable to travel. My Grandfather started showing symptoms of Alzheimers within a couple of years after retirement, and soon they were both reduced to sitting in their small retirement house. Both died within 5 years after that, their hard-earned savings totally untouched. The money sparked a big fight amongst their children, and completely destroyed the family. Most of it was eaten in lawyer's fees.
Deferring the thing they really wanted to do was an incredibly risky strategy, but neither of them understood that. Ironic, because they were the most risk-averse people I ever met, yet they gambled everything they earned on a dubious outcome.
Yours points are well taken, but our frames of reference differ. I believe that most persons have the ability to earn and invest (NOT "save") enough money to buy a house in well under ten years. Let's take your average couple in their mid-twenties. Let's have 'em both working, and let's say they make a modest $25,000/year each.
Now, if they're like your average couple, they carry some $4000 of consumer debt (using the oft-quoted average of $2000 per capita) in the form of bank cards or other short-term revolving debt. Annual interest and card fees will suck up about $800 from this couple's pockets.
Doubtless they carry medical insurance, in an HMO which charges them about $150/month each so they can run to the doctor each time they have the sniffles. If they bought catastrophic coverage instead ($5000 deductible) they would save roughly $1200/year and will STILL be insured against major medical crises or injuries, which was SUPPOSED to be what medical insurance was all about, before HMOs came along.
Every single person in the US with an annual income of more than $5 can save 10% on expenses simply by paying attention. Clip coupons. Go see movies in the late afternoon and get the matinee price. Don't buy a new car---buy a good three-year-old used car, and maintain it. Sell that SUV, while you're at it. Go out to eat once a week instead of twice. Wear a sweater and keep the thermostat at 65 degrees in the winter. Get one movie channel on your cable instead of three--or five. Et cetera. Et cetera. I would guess that any couple could save $1000/year this way without breathing hard.
To recap: Pay off the credit cards: +$800/year; cut down on unnecessary medical coverage: +$1200/year; live a BIT more sensibly: +$1000/year. So there we have $3000/year extra available. Put that amount in a good no-load mutual fund (common stocks) and you get a 12-14% annual return over any recent ten-year period (even including the 1987 crash). I'm too lazy to do the math but I'm reasonably sure that this would produce about $75000 after ten years. Whatever the number actually is, it's easy to see that a minimal lifestyle adjustment plus a commitment to investing (as opposed to sticking money in a Stupid Saver's account at your local Bunco Bank) will produce a LARGE chunk of money in a short time. In many markets the above sum will purchase a small house all by itself.
Now, you might say, yes, but during the ten years it took to accomplish this our hypothetical couple had to pay rent, whereas if they had bought a house right away they could have had the use of it during those ten years. True, but first of all it would have taken Mr. and Mrs. Hypothetical a couple or three years to save up the down payment and closing costs. Also, during the first third of a typical mortgage the vast majority of payments go toward interest, so the real choice is, rent expense, or interest plus upkeep plus insurance plus property tax expense? (And, yes, I know that mortgage interest is tax-deductible. But that's a mild benefit at best, and our goverment buddies are slowly squeezing it out of existence anyway.) It costs about 150% times as much to amortize a loan on a given dwelling than to rent said dwelling, given most markets. so our heroes would have had greater expenses by owning rather than renting, and would only realize the dubious benefit of doing so for about seven years anyway.
First, I think you're nuts to believe that you can really earn 12-14% long term in mutual funds. Second, you're discounting the effect of inflation. The house you could buy today for $75,000 might be $150,000 in ten years. Third, you lose ten years of your life living a worse lifestyle. That is an expense that must be considered.
The real cost of mortgages is usually never more than three or four points above inflation. Now factor in the ability to deduct mortage interest on your taxes (and not rent), and the savings in rent, and a mortgage usually makes sense for anyone who can afford the payments. In fact, a lot of investment analysts suggest that you should carry a mortgage with minimum payments rather than accerate the amortization, because the real cost of the mortgage is so small that your money is often better off in secure investments.
Dan,
The story of your Grandparents brought back memories.
My Polish Grandparents on my mother’s side were incredible people and savers. They were factory workers and hardly spent a dime they didn’t have to in their lives. They rented a three bedroom flat in New Bedford, Massachusetts and I remember my Grandmother complaining when the rent was increased to $18 per week (this was about 1978 or so).
They never owned a car, a vacuum, or a stereo and the appliances were early vintage. The furniture was from when they were married except for a few stuffed chairs the kids bought for them over the years. The outer rooms were closed off to save on heat, which was supplied from a gas burner the size of a couch in the central dining and TV room. A beer at the Polish-American club cost ten cents (when I was eighteen my Grandfather bought me one). They would sit in the dark at night listening to the Red Sox (my Uncle lived at home too) because they hated to use electricity on light bulbs.
When my parents bought a house in the early sixties, they were offended when my parents were going to go to a bank rather than borrow from them. The loan was paid off in a few years as my Dad did very well for himself. They passed away with a ton of money in the bank. There was no fighting over the money to speak of, but none of my mother’s generation really needed it as they raised good kids (who raised even better Grandchildren ;-) ).
That being said, they were happy in their simple ways and never seemed to want for anything. They had family and pride and in their way epitomized the American dream for immigrants who left a poor country. I still remember my Grandmother marveling at all the money Social Security was sending her, since most of it went into the bank. God bless them and a way of life that seems long gone.
The boomer generation who were in college in the late sixties and early seventies eschewed materialism at the time but now seem to buy every useless or oversized gadget in sight in an effort to outdo their neighbors. But my Grandparents (on both sides for that matter) were the ones that understood what really mattered in life.
Regards,
Rick
its ok to borrow just dont loan money out that you are not 100% sure of getting back. and of course dont borrow at an interest rate that is higher than the return you can get on that money.
I took my first full time job at age 46. Prior to that I worked 3-5 mos. a yr. I did average 400-500 hrs of subsistence poker. Decide whats important , set your priorities and create a life around these. Fishing and free time is what I liked so I took aseasonal Forest Service job in MT. They provided inexpensive housing a meager wage but unlimited rec oportunites. I virtually fished daily. Winters I spent in NOrthern Cal. fishing and playing a little low limit loball. Thoreau wrote " The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." I believe we spend a lot of our limited time time working for stuff that really means little. On ones death bed what will we reflect upon, money?
Ed,
Now I know who you are! Tall and slender, used to wear John Lennon style glasses, sixties retro look, mild mannered, easy going. Good luck to you and I hope to run into you again.
Regards,
Rick
naw, that cant be him. guys like that dont fish, all they do is sit around and look at flowers and bugs. he is rugged and hikes in the backcountry and fishes with the best of them. even though he lives in missoula which is a burnt out old hippie town(although a nice one to be in).
I'm afraid Ricks right. Besides fishing I do look at flowers and bugs, not much different than swans. Since starting full time work I don't get out in the backcountry. Still try fish 20 0r so days. My daughter just did her 1st backpack, seven days in the Bob. I wish I could have been there. I was wilderness ranger there in 76, spent 17 wks in.
Reasonable description, only you left out the word old. How you got here from my post...? I'll try stop in HP next time I visit my mom.
Ed I,
Actually, I just left my job at Hollywood Park and will be a house player at Hawaiian Gardens Saturday thru Wednesdays, 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. starting in a week. I will probably play quite often on Fridays at Hollywood but Thursdays will be a no poker day for me. Would love to see you and introduce you to some of my friends.
Regards,
Rick
well congrats i guess. you are now a pro. i hope it works for you. give us some hg game reports as i dont know anyone that plays there and havent the foggiest idea what they play. forget about Ed as he is trying to get all the skunks and tweety birds out of the woods before they burn up around missoula. its all smoke and flames around there a little south. i flew into spotted bear air strip in the south fork drainage today to get a little in before they close it all. we had 120 new fires two days ago with the rainstorm.
I flew into Spotted Bear once, my heart did speed up a little. The pilot forgot to tell me we were landing, I thought we were going down.
n
Hey all,
I'm making the move from home games to more structured play, and I'm a midwesterner, Chicago to be more specific. I'm finding that the low limit games at the local casinos (and low limit is about all that is to be found at the couple of boats I've been too) are heavy regulars, low to no tourist, and while beatable are characterized by an ugly rake. Now that could just be the evaluation of a new player, but I've run into essentially 20% or $50 as the standard charge with 6-12 being the highest consistent game to be found. Is there any chance of making a wage playing near me? Am I missing a magic spot?
Thanks,
-Timothy
Any recommendations on where to play 4/8 stud hi/lo 8 or better in vegas?
THX
Anyone know when the new facility is to open and what the current tournament schedule is.
Anyother news on Arizona poker would be appreciated I've been gone since June, 1st.
Hi Rounder - I'm a little out of touch, as my wife came home from her business travel for the summer ...
The only info I have for you is that as far as I know, Gila River still has the two big ($55 - $50) Hold'em tournaments on Tuesday and Wednesday nights.
Here are their numbers:
Casino AZ 480-850-7777
Gila River 800-WIN-GILA
Dick
I happened to be at the same table as Paul Lord at Gila the other night. He said the scheduled opening date is Sept 5. He does not think or at least has no knowledge that would indicate the daily tournament will resume. He believes they will have a once a month tournament, like the big ones they use to have.
Gila tournaments are still going strong and now Fort McDowell has a Thursday tournament structured exactly like Gila's Tuesday tournament.
Come see us Mike.....
JohnnyD
nt
If you like poker don't come to Chicago - Now I know why they call it "Texas" hole'em and "Omaha".
The other day I had to wait 4 hours for a seat for a must move table even though the list was as long as my arm and could have fed 2 tables foer a long time and I was 9th on this long long list (4 hours to move up 9 spots) - even though there were 3 empty tables the management was not allowed to use them on top of that they were "required" by backward Illinois law to close one table down at 7:15pm.
Talk about (cigar) smoke filled rooms. Cough cough!!!
I wonder how Illinois would like it if they were told to STOP selling the evil lottery tickets "that really take food off peoples tables" by 7:15pm.
Then there is "the" bimonthly "tournament" - with buy ins, rebuys and add ons that make no sense what so ever oh yeah and blinds doubling every 15 min.
The only game in town so I play.
Can't wait to get back to my beloved Arizona.
Doesn't exactly sound like the scene at Casino Arizona. Don will get quite a chuckle about this. Oh well, maybe the Diamondbacks will make the Series against the White Sox(you should live so long) and you can be the bad guy at Comisky (is the new park still called Comisky?) cheering for AZ.
Hey Dunc,
The only thing good about Chi town these days is the Sox I am a life long White Sox fan - BTW I was born and reared in Chicago.
A series featuring the White Sox and the Diamondbacks? Maybe you won't have to wait so long after all? Frank and co are sitting pretty atop the AL Central and are in fact 1 game ahead of the Mariners and 4.5 ahead of the world champion Yankees. And with a team only 2 games back of the Giants in the west, how can you count out the D-Backs? They're a great team, with stars around the field, and lets not forget the Big Unit! Sox/DBacks would be a series to remember.
Joe
I still can't beleive the Empress closes the poker room on weekends!
I undertand it closed the poker room for good on friday 8/11.
Only get to try Chicago area poker about twice a year, but my experiences have not been that bad.
Last month, walked into the Aurora room (with no call in) at 6pm on tuesday. 4 tables of Hold'em going--got a seat in 5 min. Played 5-10 and 10-20 for 3 hours and got a buffet comp. Friday afternoon got to the Harrahs room in E. Chicago. They had hold'em of 3-6, 4-8, 10-20, 20-40, and then started a 40-80 h.o.s.e. game. Harrahs has big lists, so you MUST call in an hour or so in advance. Also the boarding times are very tight--only a half hour on the odd-hours.
The games I played in both rooms varied from loose-passive to loose aggressive. An occaisional tight rock, or a skillful tight-aggressive player; but these were easy to spot.
$5 rake on almost every hand---must be terrible at 3-6 or 4-8 level. Smoke was not a big problem at either location. Asked for "Rounder", "mah", and "MJ Chi", at both locations, but got no response.
One funny story----A couple of guys at one table were talking some rgp talk, and I got into the conversation. They asked me if I posted on rgp, and I said, no, that I was a 2+2 guy. Both stared at me for a second and then one said, "OH, you're one of them".
Abe,
Forget about rpg. This is the place to be. I have not been on the boats since I got back from Vegas. My real job has been keeping me too busy since I got back.
I recently rented the movies "Gang Related" and "Gridlock'd", and thought Tupac Shakur did a good job in both. He definitely had screen presence, though he wasn't quite Samuel L. Jackson yet.
I'm not much of a rap fan(except for early Ice Cube), but I understand he was very talented at that, too.
Funny how both he and Kurt Cobain worked for everything they got, and then once they reached the top, threw it all away with their own behavior and/or poor choices of lifestyle/associates. Comparing them to Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods, what stands out is a father's influence(or lack thereof). Of course, athletes have to stay focused more often; artists have a lot more down time.
A shame and a waste.
Rap sucks. I fail to see any "talent" required to throw out a bunch of obscene rhymes. Many people feel the same about punk but at least punkers play their own instruments and depending on the bands, some of the the stuff they write is very difficult to play on guitar, bass and/or drums. These rap idiots have producers who write their "music" then hire studio musicians to put it together. Even worse, they often use music that was written years ago then just spew their obscenities on top of that. They need help from so many people to get anything going. Punk is just like poker- It has the DIY (do it yourself) mentality. When you are a punk band you do it yourself. When you are on the poker table and making decisions you are 100% in control of what you decide. Independence is glorious! I don't don't know if this post has any value but oh well it was short at least :-)
1) If it's difficult to play, it isn't punk rock 2) Ever hear of Arrested Development?
If it's difficult to play it isn't punkrock!?!?!?!?! Where the hell did you hear that? Obviously you aren't familiar with the punk scene at all. Two prime examples of how you are wrong: Josh Frieze of the Vandals (I am not really a fan of the Vandals but that is besides the point) Is famous for being one of the most talented drummers in the entire world. Most people who have played for 20 years couldn't do half the stuff he does. The bass player (his name alludes me right now) of the now defunct band Operation IV is also one of the absolute best who is known for exceedingly complex use of his instrument.
I could go on and on but I won't.
I admit I'm not familiar with those bands. And I was never deep into the scene. I'm an old guy (33) who thinks of the Ramones and the Sex Pistols and Black Flag when I hear the term punk rock. Maybe the term has evolved to mean something more than it used to. Talent used to be unnecessary to play punk rock. To me it's 3 chords and a bad attitude. I don't doubt the musicians you mention are very talented at their intruments. But it doesn't seem like what they play would sound like punk rock to my ears.
i don't know too much about music, but i figure i will contribute anyway.
while i am sure you will find some of the best rhythm sections in punk rock, the front men are usually mediocre musicians at best. this is likely because better guitarists gravitate toward musical styles that highlight guitars above the other instruments. for example, blues based rock.
besides, these days all punk means is an indie label and a bad singer. and all it ever really meant musically was a refusal to use blues chord pregressions.
scott
Three chords and an antisocial posture is generally what started out being called punk. If you look at the bands at the start of the genre, Ramones and really the Stooges are the first punk band, none of these group had superior musicianship.
If you expand the definition now to mean any alternative group with a bad attitude like say the Butthole Surfers, yeah some people can play, like Paul Leary of the Surfers, another example that some might now (late 80s to 90s that is) consider punk is Fishbone, full of competent musicians.
Two great relatively unknown punk songs:
1) The Meatmen - How Soon is Now - truly the right band to cover this insipid song
2) Poison Idea - To Be Broken - not well known outside of the Pacific Northwest, but an incredible band.
scott,
I am glad that you said you don't know much about music before you wrote:
"better guitarists gravitate toward musical styles that highlight guitars above the other instruments. for example, blues based rock."
Punk music has always been guitar based and punk bands feature some of the best guitarists playing music. IMO, punkers have expanded rock beyond the blues, something that has taken much creativity and talent. One needs only to look at the non-agressive music being created by "punks" in side or main projects to see evidence of this.
KJS
xxx
Punk doesn't mean an indie label and a bad singer. While several punk bands fit this category, Ther are plenty of other types of bands that are not even close to punk yet are on indie labels and have bad vocalists (for example: power-pop, ska, hardcore etc..). Punk is a type of music that today has expanded greatly and has many different sounds. Some fast, some slow, some melodic, some not etc.....
One thing that is important though is to never confuse punk with stuff like Korn or LimpBizkit. That stuff is not punk, no matter what some stupid DJ or VJ says.
scottie, I would have to say that your statement above is not quite correct. Although Punk does not use the twelve bar form, It is rooted in the same progression. Blues uses a I-IV-I-V-IV-I progression, where I is the tonic IV is four notes above tonic and V is five notes above tonic. Almost all punk which is classic punk and not this so called "progressive punk" is based on the I-IV-V progression, or other progressions which are closely related to the blues progression. (i.e. I-V-IV-I, or simply the progression above.) This however is always the case in simple music as these progreesions are the most pleasing to the ear. The IV I resolution being used in churches during the famous A-men for centuries. The V-I is equally popular closing cadence for nearly all Classical music.
He goes to Caltech.
*
Maybe it's just my opinion (but I don't think so)...it's not just that Rap is lower than Rock and Rock is lower than Classical Music, etc... The quality of art across the board, on average, has fallen in the modern world. Sure there are exceptions in every genre, and some great modern talents as well. I'm not taking anything away from today's true talents or artistic geniuses. However, Modern Poetry is generally inferior, on average, to Classical Poetry, and I don't think all those blobs of paint on display can even touch a Van Gogh, for instance.
There have to be exceptional artists in every time, in every generation. But the popular art forms of today are not nearly as deep, rich or complex as the Classics. I feel it is a great loss that many of today's greatest talents find themselves economically driven to produce pulp or semi-pulp art. I am not criticizing people for having favorite modern songs; I do too! But the popular art forms of today have taken a great dive since art in all its forms was revered and studied, even by the common folk, and not just lightly read or listened to or glanced at.
If the greatest talents of today, for instance, were writing classical music instead, and it was truly popular, we might actually find a few in our time who could match the great masters. But alas, the popular art forms and styles of today do not support the depth or complexity for such great works. Much of the populace, generally having been raised on shallower forms of art, is not even generally aware of the difference to a large extent. Thus we have the continuing decline of depth and quality, a slow process over many generations.
Hi Mark,
I think there's a fairly popular view of modern art, especially modern painting and poetry, quite at odds with what is actually produced by artists. Any number of poets today are producing exceptional poetry, but, largely, they go unread. A best-seller in poetry circles has sales of 5,000 copies. Think about that. Where's the audience? Simply, there isn't one because good poetry is hard to read and requires too much thought. Of course, what becomes notorious is something passing for poetry--like Jewel's garbage--that sells a million copies. (I doubt even John Feeney could write poetry this horrible, even if he tried:-) Hell, give me the carefully measured meter of rap: ever notice that much rap music follows the traditional iambic pentameter of Milton and Shakespeare? "Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge."
And, sometimes the way a work of art is produced obscures the work of art itself. I'm sure more people have heard how Serrano created "Piss Christ" than have actually seen the photograph. (BTW, it's quite haunting.) Van Gogh only sold one painting during his lifetime. Mondrian's early work looks like a very good imitation of Corbet, but he really shines with works like "Broadway Boogie Woogie" because that work captures the spirit of the age.
Ezra Pound said that "Artists are the antennae of the race," and, therefore, they must alert us, through the forms they choose, to what is around us. Without them, we might miss it.
John
I agree in large part, especially with, "Where's the audience?"
...would perhaps be a better title.
Indeed, while there are certainly great artists today in all genres, it often seems that the chances of commercial success are inversely proportional to quality and depth. The trashier and pulpier something is, the more likely it is to sell a lot. This is a sad commentary on the tastes of the people en masse today, and in particular on the American public. I am American and love our all-too-fast-eroding freedoms too, but in a lighter vein, a country whose people prefer Big Macs and Budweiser is right in keeping with people preferring Rap to Bach and Rod Mckuen to any great poet.
Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge = //-/-/--/
If someone could enlighten me as to my error, I would appreciate it.
James,
Not strictly iambic, but the overall thrust is iambic. The opening foot is one of the usual substitutions in English poetry ("Milton, thou should'st be living at this hour") and the closing foot is very common as well. If written entirely in iambic, the poem will be too paterned.
John
i know almost nothing about music and only a little more about visual art, so i will only concern myself with "Modern Poetry is generally inferior, on average, to Classical Poetry."
i understand that this is largely a matter of taste, but you are wrong. writing (poetry prose and plays) has steadily improved. modern poetry is amazing. almost all of my favorite poems are from this century.
scott
Not really a decline. You need to look for quality. William Schumann, a very well known 20th Century composer said that popular music for the masses is created solely for its immeadiate entertainment value and this is the level it only has to succeed at. Serious music needs to succeed at many levels to survive. If you want to expand your horizons, visit schott-music.com. They have a CD sale site and provide some "real audio" samples. Schott-music specializes in music of composers of the 20th century.
*
I agree with you. I never really had any appreciation for classical arts but after taking a humanities course I thought the same thing as you did. Arts of today are washed up when compared to some of the masterpieces of the past.
When art is primarily considered as a commodity, that entails that the production have the lowest common denominator in mind. Thus the constant stream of not just genre but the formulaic and the hackneyed. The accent being on what the consumer can submerge themselves into through identification and imagine themselves as they would like to be seen. James Joyce (inspired by St. Thomas Aquinas for his views on aesthetics) in Portrait of an Artist refers to this as not art but pornography. This accounts for the lack of aesthetic distance in most popular art and its overwhelming selfconscious flaunting in what passes for avant-garde.
Certainly there have always been underappreciated artistic geniuses, particularly in the avant-garde, however, never has the overall quality been so low. Two obvious examples from common modes at that time are Elizabethan theatre and in early film the work of Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin. The bar is much lower.
An exception to the rule, Cormac McCarthy, who is the finest living American writer has attained some measure of popularity. Thinking of what Hollywood will do to All the Pretty Horses makes me cringe. If you are interested in him read Blood Meridian, it is widely considered by his fans to be an unsurpassable work.
Why do you guys even care what the state of the art world is? Does it matter?
possible difficulties with a declining art world:
1. It is indicative of a society which is falling apart morally and socially and blah blah blah. As poker players you are all going to hell, so you really ought to try to not give a darn about these sorts of things. If it is indicative of the growing number of complete morons in the world, that's great too. More suckers. If the world is trying to self destruct, then so be it.
2. We might be getting bored of all the great art that is out there. This is ridiculous.
3. Past art, although great does not reflect our times. We as veiwers of art which to see art which somehow reflects our present ideas and situations. We see things as beutiful which capture some peice of our experience, and is through this relation that we begin to really appreciate art. Although phrased horribly the point is basically Edward Nortan's critique of the Graduate. While he considers it a great film, he knew that he needed to make a movie which defined his generation. Thus Fight Club. The scene where he smashes the bug is all about that, he sais. Baby boomers trying to resell their music, their cultural icons to the present when we need to have our own art.
Anyway, although difficult to set up, the rebuttal is simple. Life never changes. There is nothing essentially different betweeen the life of a king in 1706 and the life of a factory worker today.
Anyway, these are some thoughts I stole from smarter men than I.
You asked: "Why do you guys even care what the state of the art world is? Does it matter?"
Because I would prefer young inconsiderate nitwits to blast Mozart instead of Rap if they must blast something.
i agree with you entirely but isn't rap art too
Before you go criticizing a genre of music, at least learn how to compose writing into cogent sentences. Otherwise you're liable to be thought of as an idiot.
Scottie doesn't like rap either, but he's the first to admit that it is because of inability to get funky (with his wooden leg and all).
a.
Hmmmmmm, I guess I was careless to not write good sentences but I didn't expect my english teacher to read it so why bother? Maybe I could take some lessons on proper English from a rapper......Yeah that would work!
"I fail to see any "talent" required to throw out a bunch of obscene rhymes."
try it. it's hard to write even horrible poetry.
by the way, you meant talent. not "talent."
scott
That's good news because I can write horrible "poetry" pretty well.
OK, John,
Now you've really got to provide us with a sample!
I'm sure I could do much, much, worse.
John
then you are "in" luck. children books are "filled" with horrible poetry. i was reading 'where is bear' in the supermarket "while" my mom was shopping the other day. it was some of the worst poetry i have "ever" read.
it was like: where is bear he is here and there sitting in his chair he likes to think about the sink painted pink and keep his boat afloat through the moat of the palace where princess alice holds the chalice that her dad dying had saved from chad who is bad.
put the line breaks where ever you want.
also, john is right. let us see your stuff. maybe i'll also post some of my horrible "poetry."
scott
Okay scott and John, I'll try to "put" something bad together. Maybe you can outbad me. I'm sure you both have a flair for the putrid.
scott,
I once read a collection of self-published poetry written by a "poet" born in Haiti. He got the Hatian Attache (or something like that) to write this jacket blurb: "Numa [the poet's first name] is like a genius.
One poem was entitled "Kissing You is like Kissing My Math Grades." It contained this immortal line: "You're all bastards searching for mustard."
I'm not kidding.
John
you know damn well the reason i don't like most rap is that i don't like black people. i love stuff by white rappers like vanilla ice and ll cool j.
scott
punk is dead you idiot!
First off I am not an idiot, (usually people insult others because they can't make a valid argument for their side) and you obviously don't know a damn thing about the punk scene. It is alive and well not only in the U.S. but across the planet(mostly here but also big in Japan, Australia, Scandinavia, and Eastern and Western Europe). True punk doesn't sell out to the mainstream record labels and is therefore hidden unless you know where to look. I guess Fat Mike of NOFX made his label famous by promoting a scene that's dead right? He and his bands have made plenty of money and gained fans across the globe without ever having to go mainstream or be played on the radio. Oh yeah, all the shows I have been to recently must have been a dream since according to you punk is dead. Try to talk about a subject that you have a clue about. You obviously don't know much about the punk scene of today.
p.s.punk was born dead
you idiot
Born dead? Thats interesting........I guess all those millions of kids who have been into punk for the last 30 years were dreaming too. Get a clue, you don't know what you are talking about. Once again all you could do is call me an idiot because you have no basis for your ludicrous statement.
Punk is/was the first kind of music ever, which intentionally strove to be disliked by and alienate the general audience. It actually strove to be ugly.
Technical competence by a musician was considered to be against the spirit of the thing; a valid reason not to pass the audition.
--- All of which does not change the fact that punk ca '77, made the strongest social and political statement since 50's rock and roll. If not aesthetic too.
How the heck did this thread evolve immediately into a rap/punk sucks/noitdoesn't flame war(bore, as all "is it art or not" threads are)?
I was kinda hoping for some other comments from those who had seen the above movies, as well as for a "sub-thread" on the importance of fathers to break out...But hey, content is content! :)
Sorry I started the madness!!!! :-)
I have read TOP many times over and read Mason's two poker essay books (a few times) Which Slansky essay book is recommended? I will eventually buy them all, but I am looking for a ranking. I am leaning towards "Getting the Best of It."
The truth is Scott won't give rap a chance because he is afraid of being exposed as a HFS-style racist [nod to scott's sister]. After thinking about it, she is right on.
As to me poetic creation, I would rather open the floor with my new camp friend, Neil R.'s written advertisement for his friday night party (where I had quite the time).
Where be the place be boppin' where be the bitches be hoppin' where be the 40s be flowin' where be Easy E [Evan M., think Milhouse] be gettin' his drink on', and his smoke on', and his snack on' [nod to alex for last 'on] so come to the R. bros bash, be there or be square beotch.
a.
PS. Yo, Scottie, I'm leaving this Wednesday for vacation, and won't be back until after you get to school. Let's hang out before I go, and email me your phone number.
I think that I shall never see a guy as nuts as AlexB.
I believe this is bad, really quite bad. It took a few tries. I'd knock something out in 5 minutes, but my wife kept saying they were good. That's ridiculous. Nice to be supportive, but not when I'm trying to do something bad. So here's a nice bad one. I'm sure of it. The bad, but not quite bad enough ones will be withheld... for now.
The Trouble With Otis
Random number generator
Built into an elevator.
A workman with a quant's interior
Did it just to feel superior.
Now he smiles as riders gasp
As floors they'd punched in fly right past
And doors then open in odd places.
Oh he loves the puzzled faces.
Otis box now on a rush.
Now running bad. Just listen. Hush.
It's just the normal thing you see
When random numbers have their spree.
But his time you can ride the rush
And not sound foolish when you gush
"It went to ten all seven times."
And now this poem is out of rhymes.
as if it matters
John,
No, this isn't close to bad. Just look at the title alone: you have an allusion to Hitchcock's The Trouble With Harry and a reference to the elevator's manufacturer. Of course, "quant" is going to send me scurrying to the dictionary, so you've scored ten points for the use of this word.
I think we have a Shel Silverstein in the making.
John
Oh man, I may have to post one of the more serious sounding ones I came up with. I figured if I cranked them out really fast, they'd have to be bad. Well, if those aren't bad either, then I guess I could look forward to those 5k copies Rick mentioned. :-/
But maybe others will post some of their bad/good efforts first. You John? Scott? Alex, I think you could try something original. I think Ray might join in. David and Mason would be a kick. We'll have a regular little online bohemian coffee house here.
I think quant is just slang for mathematically oriented geek..
Ok, here goes. I hope this is truly bad.
My Kitty
I love my little kitty, Princess;
She comes to me when I call;
With doleful eyes she looks and winces,
And she curls up in a ball.
I love my little pussy-wussy:
I feed her curds and whey;
Then she poops it from her little tushy;
And goes outside to play.
She visits her friend, Franky;
I think he is a louse;
Besides he's rather skanky;
But she leaves him a mouse.
So if you ever see my pussy,
Roaming far from home;
Remember her life is rather cushy;
So don't let her walk alone.
With apologies to any and everybody.
.
Quoth Donne on such a sordid night To steal my name in yon book St. John of no such reply to make "Yon book is the bible, f*ck that, aight!
John is John, and right is right The bible beats any sh*t you've to write And me of matter, and the son of man I'd whup your a*s, you know I can"
The visage of Donne's poor sallow constitution Continued to melt as St. John laid down his retribution As crows gleaming hellish pecked at his eyes John Donne renounced poetry, and all other lies
You may not understand what has transgressed between stanza first and stanza last why heavenly John and hellish crows would be bound in arms together in Donne's last gasp
an original monday morning piece, by a.
Quoth Donne on such a sordid night To steal my name in yon book St. John of no such reply to make "Yon book is the bible, f*ck that, aight!
John is John, and right is right The bible beats any sh*t you've to write And me of matter, and the son of man I'd whup your a*s, you know I can"
The visage of Donne's poor sallow constitution Continued to melt as St. John laid down his retribution As crows gleaming hellish pecked at his eyes John Donne renounced poetry, and all other lies
You may not understand what has transgressed between stanza first and stanza last why heavenly John and hellish crows would be bound in arms together in Donne's last gasp
an original monday morning piece, by a. formatted, hopefully, this time
AlexB,
I know of no other poem in the language that uses both "yon" and "whup." Well done!
John
Okay, both of you guys achieved proper badness, I think. It's actually pretty hard to write something that's bad in a funny way. Just spewing out nonsense is easy, but hardly worth bothering with. You guys found the right zone.
I am going to the LA area soon and want to know where the best Holdem games are found. I am a low to medium limit player. Let me know where the action is. Thanks.
The best action for low/mid-limit games follows in order from best to worst:
COMMERCE HOLLYWOOD PARK BICYCLE CLUB HUSTLER (varies in quality) CRYSTAL PARK (very little mid-limit)
Can't speak for Normandie or Hawaiin Gardens.
I'm planning a trip to CA later in the year too, but am undecided whether to go to LA or SF. Where are the best places to play in the Bay Area, what are the main differences between the two markets, and which is better for mid-limit?
If I'm not mistaken, the rake per hand for 6-12 at Hollywood Park is $3 versus $4 at Commerce. The rate for 3-6 is the same. Doublecheck with Rick Nebiolo. I've been averaging 2 sessions a week for two months at the Commerce playing 3-6 where the fish swim in schools. I presume you are a good player, so please stay away ; ).
The dead drop at Hollywood is $3 for the 2/4, 3/6, and 6/12. The dead drop at Commerce is $4 at the 6/12 and 9/18 (I don't know about 3/6). Hollywood does not have a 9/18 but they do have an 8/16. The dead drop is $4 for this game. Better deal in this range is the 10/20 at Hollywood. The time charge is $5 per half hour.
Good Luck,
Rick
music that enhances the drama. If you were to turn off the sound, the film would lose much of its drama. That's how important the music can be. When I mention the name of Gyorgy Ligeti, most people say, "Who's that." But, if you heard his music from films that used it for enhancing the drama, you would easily recognize it. One of Ligeti's most famous pieces was used in 2001 and is called Lux Aeterna. A more recent film, "Eyes Wide Shut," features his composition Musica Ricercata.
Try Jaws without the music.
As for composers go to www.imdb.com and check out the massive contributions to movie music by the family Newman. Alfred, Lionel, Emil, and Randy, staggering.
What piece was his? I certainly hope you're not referring to that obnoxious, one key strike crap, that got repeated over and over endlessly throughout that godawful film.
Now, Also Spracht Zarathrusta(2001) and the theme music from Rollerball(composer eludes me, Mussorgsky or Liszt, maybe) is real good stuff.
From IMDB, the composers are Albinoni, Bach, Shostakovich and Tchaikovsky.
The main theme is either Bach's "Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor" or S'kovich's "Fourth Movement from Symphony 5 in D Minor". Man, I wish they'd release this soundtrack on CD. Lord only can imagine the Creed/Korn/Kid Rock/Metallica abortion the Rollerball 2001 soundtrack will be......
BTW, another Kubrick movie with a great soundtrack is A Clockwork Orange. Remember "Singin' In The Rain" and "I Want To Marry A Lighthouse Keeper"?
It's the soundtrack to Fight Club.
Electronic music rarely gets the same level of credit in films as orchestral scores, and is almost never recognized by awards committees. The one exception was "Chariots of Fire" by Vangelis. When I saw Fight Club (and I saw it in the theater twice), I remember telling the friend I went with "That score was superb. I'd bet my life that it won't be nominated for an oscar." I was unfortunately right.
FWIW, I still vote for Star Wars as the greatest film score of all time. Not Empire, as most people vote. Next time you're watching Star Wars, just listen to the use of the French Horn. Those 4 players from the London Symphony deserved knighthood for their playing. And the writing is simply the best horn writing not written by Richard Strauss.
shooter
The first rule of the film score to Star Wars is you do not talk about the film score to Star Wars. The second rule of...
Star Wars' score is its most underrated aspect. For exampl, try the heroes' initial Death Star approach without the sound. The effect is almost nil.
The score to Star Wars created the important ever so subtle ominious mood that ran throughout. And that was what Episode I really lacked -- a defining score.
Jon I.
.
x
There wasn't much dialogue in this flick, so the music has to provide some pretty big shoulders to carry things along.
Strange movie, but the soundtrack which combines the voices of Tom Waits and Crystal Gayle is fabulous.
im playing 6/12 holdem at gila river (phoenix) and in a heads up pot i call a guy all the way down because i think my pocket 88 is good. guy says "pocket nines", and shows me one card, a nine. (hes got both cards in one hand and the nine is completely covering the card underneath. he doesnt spread them.) i say lets see. he says what do you have. i said i called you. he agonizes like 15 seconds, and then shows 97 for nine high. my 88 wins.
i called one floor immediately and talked to another one later on, and they both told me that there wasnt really anything wrong with what this idiot did, but if it become a regular thing then they would think about doing something.
of course i immediately left the game, but what do you think, was i right to be totally pissed off ?
p.s. the floormen told me that if i had thrown my hand away, even if this guy showed 97 (not the hand he declared after all bets and it was showdown) i still couldnt get the pot because i had no hand. now im not going to fall for this angle, but it still makes me mad.
brad
If he acts before you, and you call his bet make sure that you see his cards. If he mucks them, before you see them, ask the dealer to show them. In most cases the dealer will turn up his cards. This is a trick some players use to make you prematurely fold a winning hand.
yes, i know. i hold onto my cards until i see a better hand or until i *have* the pot already pushed to me. thats it.
but i always thought (hey, im a stickler for rules) that if someone misdeclares at showdown causing someone to fold, then they forfeit any claim to the pot. in a dream world i guess.
brad
Dealer should have had him spread out his hand I believe the rule there is you have to show both cards to win a pot, if called. If he declaired the wrong hand then it should go to you no matter what you had.
The floor was out of line.
>> If he declaired the wrong hand then it should go to you no matter what you had.
thats what i thought, but i was told by two seperate floormen that that was not the case, that if i had been angled into mucking, i would have had no way to 'prove' that my hand could beat his. what a joke. Aug 5th new casino az full time.
brad
That has happened to me once. It will not happen again. The first line of defense is YOU. Hold those cards until you see the opponent's and understand them. Sometimes there is a split pot if all 3, 4 or 5 cards exposed play. The next line of defense is the dealer. S(he) should announce the hand. By the time the floor gets involves, assumeing he has not seen the play, you are toast if you mucked and did not show. Hold them card!
Good thing that you caught him but it makes you wonder how many times he has made this move and got away with it. I can not see how the floor can let a player get away with this type of play, there inaction only says to this player " try it again ", he should have been given a warning and you should not have been made to feel that you have to leave the table to avoid this type of play.
That is crazy....if I was at a table where a guy tried that he would be risking a seriouse ass whooping....But that is just me. It would take balls of solid steel to lie about your hand, unless you were truelly mistaken. The other day, I had kings, and made a call even though I thought the guy had the str8, he called str8, and I turned over my kings, and sure as hell the dealer said what str8....I got the pot only because i didn't throw my cards like i have seen some guys do lately. Patience paid off in this case.
Kevin
What you describe is the rule in some cardrooms. That is, in some rooms if a player misdeclared his hand and you mucked, he must show that hand or you (the mucker) will win the pot. In most rooms, this is not the rule, IME.
As for the floor's inaction, I would calmly inform that floorman that if they're not going to try and stop this kind of angle-shooting, that you'll be leaving and not coming back. Don't just leave quietly, tell the floorman and shift manager WHY you're leaving. Doing it in a calm, professional manner will greatly improve the effect. A mad, ranting player will look like someone they want to get rid of, and they will figure you'll be back once you cool off. A calm player will be believed.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
If an issue like this pops up in AC, one has the option of complaining to the Casino Control Commission, which is located a few hundred yards away. They have the option of finding fault with the dealer/floor person and can have the casino award money to the person who was wronged if there appears to be deception and cheating. There should be witnesses who will agree to tell what happened. I know of only 1 case in a 10/20 HE game where a player was awarded the equivalent of the pot after prompting by the the CCC and review of the tape by the casino. I forget how much money the guy was given but it was >$150. $400 + seems like the amount.
ive said many times never show your hand till its your turn to show and dont ever throw away until you have seen the better hand. let them say all they want its a games of actions not words. if you are mad you are not an experienced player as this stuff goes on in one form or another all the time. but since the floor made the decision that it is ok as long as you dont overdue it you might as well try it back at him sometime or against players you dont like. explain to the table in front of the floorperson so that you wont have a long lasting reputation as an angle shooter. also ask if they allow a new player to come in behind the blinds for just one bet or for free. if they do find out how long you have to quit for to be classified a new player so you can take advantage of your fellow players. the only way for bad rules to get changed is for the good players to complain then abuse them in front of the house.
...you all have obviously never played low-limit 7-card stud. The reason they have this rule is to protect the idiots at these tables who have no idea what their hands are. I've see people every night say, "straight" with an inside straight draw, and every once in a while someone shoves their cards to the dealer face up only to have the dealer find a straight hiding in there since 5th street.
The rule at all casinos is cards speak - people make mistakes; cards don't. So some guy is trying to take advantage of this - you can protect yourself simply by holding on to your cards - and hey, if you've got a guy that will bluff to the river with 97o, let him shoot all the angles he wants.
~DjTj
i have a sort of win at all costs , within the rules kind of attitude. i need to reconsider that i see.
thanks,
brad
I would like some recommendations on good places to play $1 and higher video poker in Las Vegas.
Krister, scott, and I will be at Turning Stone in NY this Wednesday through Sunday. Maniac Mark will be there, too, if he has the balls to stop kowtowing to the man. Come say hi if you're in the area. Unless you're one of those boring people whose posts always suck. Then just stay at home. You know who you are.
So, I guess you'll be staying home, then.
hey got your number. and the man says no go, but you may be able to stay at sun night
Mark
I'm a member of the Mayfair Club and have been out of touch for a few months. I tried to call to get the new schedule, couldn't get through, stopped by and found a "Mayfair Club is closed" sign. Is it shut down for good? Does anyone know what happened?
Thanks.
Would still be curious for details, if anyone knows them. Can email them to me if you would rather at jstoker@owc.com
Thanks.
in a thread on the tournament forum about "super mario", badger said:
"Mario has probably a higher hourly win rate in 20-40 to 30-60 ring games over the past five years than possibly any player on this forum."
on rgp sklansky paraphrased badger by saying:
"you said his hourly 30-60 holdem rate topped any of the two plus two posters"
badger responded with:
"Lie. I never said that, or even close to that."
huh? what is this reporter missing? is it that badger didn't use the word, "hold'em"? he made other references in the same thread, concerning mario, to play "after the flop". So it did look like hold'em was the subject. (is there a regular 30-60 omaha game soemwhere?)
is it that sklansky left out the "probably" and the "possibly". surely badger can't be nitpicking to that extreme.
well, it's odd, isn't it?
Post deleted at author's request.
Normally I stay out of this stuff but here is someone posting without ID just smearing people for what reason I don't know and I don't care. It's just too bad.
paul
i meant no smear. please read carefully what i said.
perhaps there was a hint of sarcasm in my my question, "what is this reporter missing?" But I was just fairly amazed that mr. badger would say he had not said anything "even close to" what mr. sklansky said he had. at least, by way of his response, i know what difference he was talking about.
i have to admit, i had thought mr. badger's accusing mr. sklansky of lying was sort of a smear. but maybe you're right, maybe it was i who smeared by asking for clarification. i'll not bother in the future.
as for no i.d., i am a little scared of mr. badger. he seems, in my short experience, to come on extremely, extremely strong . as a precaution, i felt it best to post anonymously. i will simply not post in the future. i can see that it is not worth it.
>badger responded with:
>"Lie. I never said that, or even close to that."
>>You posted the words. You think "probably" and
>>"possibly" for 20/40-30/60 are the same as
>>"definitely" for 30/60?
well, it is kind of close to the same thing. i think omaha players need to loosen up a bit:)
brad
Post deleted at author's request.
well, first off youre a world class player, so my thinking is way fuzzier than yours ever is.
on the other hand im more representative of most people, and what they hear.
this is what i heard.
A: "you wont believe it, this guy is so lucky, he makes bank, i mean, its unreal, like 5 or 6 BB hour at least! ive watched him play for a long time and i still cant believe it!"
B: "no way, youre telling me somebody consistently makes that much by luck when some of the best poker minds in the world, the most skillful players of all time, cant even begin to approach that?"
A: "i never said anything of the sort!"
crowd: "oooh ..." (in confusion)
brad
p.s. im sure youre 100% right, im just saying that when it comes to having a conversation, most people dont go for a 'strict interpretation' , but just kind of like go for the 'gist' of what your saying, you know, the main point youre trying to get across.
why are you guys ragging badger so much,dont you know a great player like him can and should get away with anything he wants! badger is the poker worlds bill clinton. READ HIS LIPS! HE DID NOT HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH THAT WOMAN!
I am writing this post for me and me alone. I don't care if anyone ever reads it. With that in mind read it at your own dismay. Please remeber, I told you so.
A few days ago at Bellagio's David Sklansky explained a Holdem situation to me. When he asked me what I thought I made a complete ass of myself by trying to show David how smart I was. (I'm not that smart anymore but now I know it so maybe I'm smarter now). I went as far as sending David an e-mail with an attempt at conceptualizing his specific example into a generalized rule. When David saw me at Bellagio's he politely said in so many words "What in the hell are you talking about, that's example you cited in your e-mail has absolutely nothing to do with the one I explained to you." He then added "I worry about you". He then explained the situation to me a gain and this time I got it. No I don't think I got it, I got it. The example is not important to this post other than it is something that a very good poker player should instinctly realize. A very good poker player, I said. And that is the problem, it's my problem. I have overestimated my poker playing abilities and so has David. I don't blame him! After all I have claimed for quite some time on this forum that I am a good poker player. And I probably am good or at least above average but I am not "very good". Hardly.
After my discussion with David I dejectedly returned to my 15-30 Holdem game. Imediately the following situation developed. I late posted ($15) in the cut off seat. UTG raised to $25 and all folded to me. I looked at my cards and spied pocket 88's. Before I could act the button picked his cards up and tossed them into the muck. I won't tell you waht I did but will say that I won the hand. I explained this hand to David. He immediately told me that the correct play was a "No Brainer". There was only one correct play was his point. Well I played it just the opposite of what he told me was correct. I did not agree with him but intelligently did not argue. After thinking about it I could only conclude that he was probably correct. I mull this over in my mind now quite a bit! I'm still not thougoughly convinced that David is entirely correct. Yet I am thouroughly convinced that I can not definitively defend my play. I believe that what drove my decision was the belief that I was beat before the flop but I'm not sure. I won't bother explaining what the correct play was and how I played the hand. I'm sure you already know.
If anything comes out of this experience I hope that it motivates me enough to continue to look at my game and objectively evaluate my understanding of what constitutes correct poker stategy and play. For that I again owe a thank you to David Sklansky.
Vince.
Side note: Last night I found myself faced with three trap situations. In each one I failed miserably.
1) Position: BB, Hand: Q,Jo. Situation: UTG Raise(unknown player) All fold to me. Flop: K,Q,Q. Both check. Turn: 6, I bet (mistakingly) and was raised and called the hand down to see what I knew. A,Q!
2) Position: BB Hand:Ks,2s. Situation Same UTG Raised. All fold to me. I (mistakingly, maybe) Call. Flop K,6,7 rainbow. I check (mistakingly). UTG checks. Turn J river blank. I check-call, check-call. UTG: K,J.
3) Mid position. Hand: A,Jo Raise. Late position caller. Heads up. I (read this guy as clueless). Flop: J,T,x. Turn river, x,x. I bet the flop. Smell a rat but bet turn anyway. He calls. (Now the rat really stinks.) The river card gives me no concern but something is grabbing at my hand trying to stop it's forward motion but too late. Bet and raised. I call. He has a set of tens. This underestimation cost me only one bet but it is not point. The river bet was a mistake for a number of reasons. Least of all the possibility of being raised.
vince i suspect you are a good player but as we all know you are a little twisted on your thinking sometimes. maybe its your creative mind that makes you want to do whats abnormal in a game. do whats in the books and whats been defended here on the forums. and of course play tighter as its a game of winning hands mostly with the best hand.
Just a clarification. The man who raised to $25 was all in.
El Supremo,
How embarrassing! I didn't notice the all-in bet in my response, which was written offline while I was doing other stuff around my cave. I assumed a full raise and plenty of chips.
I still think reraising is correct, although playing against all-ins is an area I have to work on. I do find that the player who raises all-in is often very weak as they just want to get it over with and either re-buy or go home. I would reraise in order to isolate as a small favorite against probable overcards with a lot of dead money in the pot. If called by a blind the bulk of the pot is protected so it is unlikely I would have to pay off a bet by a blind if the flop came with overcards.
On the other hand, just calling lets in at least the big blind most of the time. It Vince had to post the $10 dead penalty blind for missing his blinds, then the pot would probably have $85 in it (assuming the big blind called). Now Vince can call for another $10. He has pot odds on his set, and the pot is completely protected against being bluffed out by the blind.
In retrospect, I don’t think it is obvious as you imply. But then we Italians are known for our lovemaking, not our brains ;-).
Regards,
Rick
P.S. If you have time, would you check my work on whether or not my logic is correct if the UTG player had plenty of chips? I'll consider us even (in lieu of a piece of the royalties) for my questions you answered (or should I say milked) in the major poker magazines and "Poker, Gaming and Life" (page 144 thru page 150).
Regards,
Rick
Vince,
You write for all of us and we love it when you post (at least most of us). My one and only student finds you an inspiring writer and is still in mourning that you didn’t bother to introduce yourself to me when you came to Los Angeles. She was probably playing that day too and I think you would have enjoyed meeting her – she is very charming and wants to buy you dinner for all the great posts you have written (unfortunately for you, I would probably be tagging along).
I’m going to guess on the play that El Supremo (David said he prefers this nickname rather than “OZ”)) called a “no-brainer” when you posted the pocket eight’s behind the button. Maybe I’ll be wrong and you will feel better and I will fall into despair. If I’m right maybe I’ll become his new favorite and you will spend the rest of your life wallowing in misery. But I’ll still read your posts and be pissed if you are in town and don’t introduce yourself.
I’ll assume you had to make up the $10 small blind since you said you returned to the table, but even if you posted as a new player, I believe my play is correct. When posting late you must always consider the fact that folding (unless raised) is no longer an option. I’ll assume the UTG raiser and the blinds are typical for this limit. And we can treat your hand like the button since the actual button folded out of turn (I like to call this the “virtual button” – last week I had two players on my left who telegraphed so much that I had three buttons every round!).
In the absence of your late $15 post, the best possible play when faced with calling a solid UTG raise in late position cold are fold, reraise, and then call. But since you are in for one bet you can’t fold since you will get almost six to one pot odds since one or both blinds will probably call (in addition to the $10 make up blind you may have posted). These are correct odds to flop your set when you consider implied odds. So you can’t fold.
The reraise is the second best option. It puts pressure on the UTG raiser and should get you head up with position. You are gambling a bit but with all that extra blind money it is worth it. Since the best option is not feasible since you posted late, this is your play.
Calling is weak because you will probably end up with two opponents and one or two overcards when the flop hits. It will be hard to play this hand from flop to finish (unless you flop a set).
That being said, I don’t think this is a “no-brainer”. There could have been other factors that would make you lean towards calling (if this was your mistake). Maybe the big blind was the type to over defend and the UTG player one to often make it three bets with overcards. Now you are in a real pickle post flop and calling and hoping for a set may make sense. Maybe the blinds don’t defend and UTG routinely checks overcards when the flop hits giving you a license to steal but making the pot bigger will keep him in there. So El Supremo may be smarter than you or me, but he could be a little more diplomatic to one of his best fans and posters.
Since this is a long post I’ll keep my comments on the other three hands brief.
In hand 1) I think most of us would have played it the same and lost about as much (although I do come out betting on the flop more than most here). Do you really think you could lay it down here?
In hand 2) calling a solid UTG raiser with king little suited head up is a mistake. You are often dominated and the suitedness helps very little. You flop top pair and still can’t apply any heat.
In hand 3) you played it fine. My sense of smell stinks so if you smelled a rat I wouldn’t have done any better. I do wish you would post the x cards as sometimes knowing these help.
Don’t get down on yourself and keep posting. And if you come to Los Angeles and don’t look me up I’m going to put a hit on you.
Regards,
Rick
Vince baby good to hear from you! I hope you are doing well out there and having fun. It seems clear you are doing lots of thinking as usual which can be as good or better than fun.
IF I would not reraise with 8's with the UTG being all in and myself having posted late, I would have to quit playing poker or something like that. Especially if the button pre-mucked. All that money out there and you can probably get heads up and probably have the best hand. You can't afford to entice the blinds in by just calling. Besides, you want either lots of callers and good implied odds to hit a set or you want to be heads-up. Forget 3-way and 4-way action with these hands unless you have a darn good excuse (like if you are in the natural Blind and can no longer eliminate anyone because the UTG raised and got two other callers).
With the 3 trap hands you mentioned at the bottom: #1 and #2--I almost can't think of two worse hands to call with out of the BB heads-up against an UTG raiser. Very easy to get dominated here with these hands, plus you are out of position.
With the 3rd hand, I guess your biggest mistake was not listening to your nose, especially against the Clueless. However, if there had been no stink, I would have bet all the way too. A modest Ten or Jack is just what the Clueless love to play with (not to mention a QJ on occasion as well).
I will say that I have had a few weeks of below par hold'em myself, but at least I identified the reason. It came from playing in the wild (10-way action? why not?!) 20-40 game at the Mohegan Sun on a few recent occasions, and from having tuned up my Stud game to a further aggressive pitch. My own aggressiveness and good results therefrom in Stud went to my head in hold'em, as did all the nitwits at the Mohegan Sun. I forgot that in Hold'em you JUST CAN'T get out of line much at all preflop if you want to have good results. The game is just too unforgiving and too much money goes in before the flop. Fortunately, it only took me a few weeks to identify my complaint and to take the antidote. Have you ever noticed that you go through phases in your game, that sometimes you are on but off because it is not the same situation? This can manifest in various ways. As long as you can realize what is going on you should be OK. I think you have a finely tuned objective streak even when looking at your own play. That is something few have, and fewer still value enough.
Maybe I missed it, but, whats your point? That, no matter how good we think we are, we should continually analyze and try to improve our game? Well......DUH....
OK Al, maybe you missed it.
sorry...I was referring to the original post, not yours...
Hey Al,
You wrote:
"Maybe I missed it, but, whats your point? That, no matter how good we think we are, we should continually analyze and try to improve our game? Well......DUH...."
You obviously or maybe not so obviously did miss it! Reread the original post. Pay particular attention to the first sentence! "Duh..."
Vince.
Vince,
Despite your disclaimer, your original post does what so many of your posts do: you hold a mirror up for all of us to take a peek into. It's up to us to recognize ourselves. You sly thing, you...
John
"All that money out there and you can probably get heads up and probably have the best hand. "
M,
Great response. Why do we play poker. To win money of course. How do we win money. Others play bad, we play good! You are correct. My guess is that in this situation you can get it heads up => %90 of the time by reraising. The 8,8 is probably averages out at a 3-2 (weak guess) favorite over the all in UTG raiser. Thus if you do the math you have have a positive EV just by raising. So tell me, why did I just call?
I somewhat agree with you about calling against the UTG raiser with the hands I described. But that had nothing to do with poor playing of the hands which is what concerns me more.
Vince.
Vince,
You mentioned you dejectedly returned to your seat. This may have increased your passivity in the face of feeling you were beat. Don't tell me you thought you were beat by the Blind who gave off a reraise tell himself. If you felt you were beat by the UTG raiser you could have been calling to try to make some money from a side pot with the blinds. This would be erroneous because first, the chances that the UTG raiser, especially an all-in UTG raiser, has two high cards is much greater than him holding a big pair. Second because calling to beat the blinds out of more money is erroneous. Why? Because if you call, it is probably correct for them to call. You don't want them to be making probably correct plays in your pot. If you just had 88 and everyone folded to you on the button, it would not generally be correct to raise not to call. I know the situation you were in was different because you can no longer steal the blinds, but even if you couldn't steal both blinds, if you knock just one of them out, your hand has a much better chance of standing up against one blind instead of against two blinds. You really are in trouble against two blinds unless you hit your "brave" hand. Plus if you raise and hit your set along with an A,K or Q you stand to trap a Blind for a lot perhaps. He might be calling with AK and think he has you by the balls because you raised and you might have AQ, AJ or AT.
As far as misplaying the hands #1 and #2, you must take into account your opponent and the nature of the flops and the action they are likely to generate. This can be more difficult than playing well preflop. Of course the difficult decisions seem to appear all the time when you hold a dominated hand. If you knew what you did was probably wrong but still did it feeling a bit unsure, it is either a judgment error or a willpower error or a combination of both.
One thing you must watch out for in Vegas is getting to feel somewhat lost and isolated when you are out there for quite some time, especially if you don't have any close friends there. I noticed this effect personally, and it hurt my game and I played marathons which can become quite costly. In Vegas the phrase "it is all one long game anyway" can take on a whole new meaning. You can play so much that you get burnt out, lonely and start to feel a bit spacey or like things are somewhat unreal. Needless to say this is not good for your game. I very much recommend having dinners with people and getting some exercise and going to the various natural sites away from LV for a day here and there. It is very easy to let the atmosphere and the grind or hours give you Vegas burnout and your game will really suffer. Plus you have more good players making plays on you which can feel a bit disorienting as well.
Are you keeping any sort of journal while on your trip? A lot of your posts are in the Classis Vince" style and a journal would be very interesting. You should at least save a printed copy of your 2+2 posts and reports while on this trip. Actually you and DS should gather up your posts at some point and have them all put into a book. But I think there are many more to come and the story is far from over.
See you later, Mark
Mark! Great post! No! Grrreaat Post! A real spirit lifter for me!
Thank you!
Vince.
I've read with interest this controversy about Badger's alleged bias for tournament poker because he is staked. At least this is my understanding of it. I think it's a lot of bull. Let me put it this way, if I could easily afford to pay my own way in tournaments or I could have a backer I would take the backer every time. It seems to me that this would only be common sense. Thus I can't see how this would bias Badger in anyway, shape or form.
One more thing, I think the arguments about tournament players vs. ring game players are silly. Good players should be able to do well in tournaments and ring game play. If there are opportunities to win a lot of money with little more invested than your time and/or the a tournament offers a serious overlay, I think it is crazy for good players to restrict themselves to playing in money games. Out.
In my experience, I have found that tournament players tend to be weaker in live games. Just my own personal obervation and I cannot provide a reason why other than it is just a personal observation of mine. I do find one thing interesting/silly about tournament players-their whining about someone calling a $10,000.00 bet with a piece of cheese. I know one clown who complains about this all the time-one day I finally said to him, "yeah, but its tournament chips, not real money". He just kind of stared at me for a second then repeated his "I cant believe he called..." routine. I think jackoffs like this just like to say out loud about someone calling a "$10,000" bet to make it sound like they are some big time gambler/player. Its kind of like some well known pros (wont mention any names) who are called to big limit games by their names and not their initials (like 99% of most people)...
Post deleted at author's request.
But you get staked in tournaments much more times than you do in live games. This explains your tournament bias and your tendency to defend tournament players everytime they get criticized in this forum. Admit it. You're biased.
Post deleted at author's request.
Why would you say such a thing? Do you have any idea what/when Badger plays? I know I will miss Badger's contributions.
I cannot speak for Mason, but as for myself, I was apparently misconstrued. All I ever said is that Badger, being one of those who benefits from the existence of tournaments, may have an unconscious bias when that subject is discussed. I was not implying anything different from similar thoughts about why it is important for scientific studies to be double blind.
It was not meant to be an insult since everyone is susceptible to this syndrome. Keep in mind that even if there is an unconscious bias, that does not mean that the writer is not speaking the truth or is not making every conscious error to be unbiased. The only reason I even got involved was because I was elaborating on a comment that Mason made. The truth is that I have read very few posts about tournaments and and in one case helped Badger make his point.
There may be some who believe that Badger was consciously arguing a position for selfish motives. I guess he thought I was saying that also or he wouldn't have gotten that upset with me. Hope this clears things up.
Post deleted at author's request.
Excuse me sir, but I think you refuted your own point. By saying you would choose a backer even if you could easily afford to pay your own way, you are admitting that you are in a better position regarding tournaments than most tournament players. That is of course true even if you weren't staked but is even more true now.
Put another way, if all tournaments were eliminated this would displease you more than the average pro player. Whether this fact would affect your (or others in similar positions) written opinions on things is something reasonable people could disagree about.
x
/
If you can easily afford to play in tournaments and if you are an expert tournament player, why would you want a backer? Put another way, if your bankroll is of the size that you don't care much about the fluctuations, then expectation should be the main driver of your decisions.
This concept is also true in side games. When we give advice about how to play poker we usually assume that you have ample money for the game that you are playing in. Thus the advice (assuming it is correct) is generally designed to maximize EV, not minimize fluctuations.
"Thus I can't see how this would bias Badger in anyway, shape or form. "
Tom, are you serious?
"I think the arguments about tournament players vs. ring game players are silly"
Tom are you serious?
Vince
Background:
My firsthand involvement with the AIDS controversy (is AIDS communicable or not?) has inspired me to investigate the ebb and flow of other scientific debates including those relating to forensic evidence in criminal cases like the O.J. Simpson trial. More on the Simpson trial later (in another post).
What I've reconfirmed, alas, is that scientific objectivity is seldom unalloyed and often superseded. Here's what frequently happens. Evidence is cited to support a hypothesis by several or many someones who have a vested interest in the outcome of the debate. Professional prestige, career advancement, Machiavellian alliances, and social and intellectual affectations come into play, the paradigm gets cemented into place, and then zealously defended by the ensconced self-anointed elite guard against any and all able-minded dissidents.
Eventually, the house of cards collapses, but, for a generation or two, Might trumps Right.
Thomas Kuhn spells out the whole shebang in his book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, first published some time in the 60's by the University of Chicago Press.
One of the juicier subjects under debate for the last twenty years has been the fate of the dinosaurs at the end of the Cretaceous Period. Did a collision with a huge asteroid spell their demise, were only terrestrial factors responsible, or was it some combination of the two?
In the pecking order of scientists, physicists are top dogs, and among physicists, recipients of the Nobel Prize reign supreme. Well, the champion of the asteroid-collision theory was both a Nobel Prize winner and a physicist. His last name was Alvarez, and Prof. Alvarez was not averse to throwing his weight around. (Sometimes, of course, the arrogant bullies are proven to have been right.)
I'm not going to rehash the debate here. Suffice it to say that the asteroid-collision theory appears viable at this point in time (see the book Night Comes to the Cretaceous).
I brandish a Small Pair (may need help on the river):
My tack is this: let's assume for the sake of argument that a 10 km. wide asteroid collided with Mother Earth near the Yucatan Peninsula at the end of the Cretaceous. (That would have been approximately 65 million years ago, if memory serves.)
It's not hard to imagine the devastation to the entire biosphere of this planet due to the immediate consequences of the impact and the "nuclear winter" which would have ensued. The energy released by such a collision has been estimated at many times the wallop of a hydrogen bomb (I'm being vague about this figure on purpose because I'd like to see calculations independently arrived at by several different whizbrains).
My hypothesis (analogous to a pair of 55 heads up against David Sklansky with a flop of A Q T) is this: when this oversized meteor or asteroid collided with Earth, not only was the immediate impact great, but there was a significant alteration in either the Earth's orbit or tilt (angle of inclination) or both. Now the repositioning need not have occurred all at once. Perhaps it was more a matter of destabilization which, when combined, say, with the Moon's gravitational influence, eventually resulted in a restabilized orbit/tilt hundreds of thousands or even millions of years later. Before you scoff your heads off, I've already run this concept by the brilliant director of the Griffith Observatory, Dr. Krupp, and he couldn't unseat it with a clean swipe. I also had a conversation with one of his associates, who sole counterargument was that the alleged collider wouldn't have been large enough to effect such a destabilization. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the formula for determining the energy released upon impact is E = 1/2mass multiplied by velocity squared. Therefore the mass of the incoming object, while by no means negligible, is far less of a factor than this object's velocity at impact. (Can't a relatively small but high-sped projectile knock a good-sized man off his feet?)
(The turncard is a 7 and Sklansky checks; is he trying to induce a bluff?)
I think there's a 1 to 5% chance of my having hit the nail squarely on its head. Moreover, there is a 100% chance of this hypothesis proving productive if it encourages someone to sit down and crunch some numbers or design a computer simulation program to determine 1) the amount of force needed to dislocate the Earth from its established orbit or alter its tilt or both 2) the amount of force needed to cleave the Earth asunder.
All comments appreciated.
Mark Harris
Mark,
Just a small quibble with your representation of Kuhn's work. You seem to imply that Kuhn sees global change in scientific world views as a kind of boxing match, and this is really not the case. Pardigmatic shifts occur when a world view is significantly altered by an event of some kind. For example, Kuhn cites the shift occasioned by the publication of Lyell's text Geology. (Certainly, Skanlsky's TOP might be considered one such pardigmatic text.) It is not a matter of who simply yells the loudest, which you seem to imply. Nor does Kuhn say that the previous paradigm which has been replaced is really "wrong." Of course, it's been 20 years since I've read Kuhn's work, so I might be a bit off, too.
You might also note that Kuhn's work draws upon the research of Benjamin Whorf who showed that our world views are conditioned by the very language we use.
John
It's also been twenty years since I read Structure of Scientific Revolutions and I'm no doubt guilty of some retroactive infusing. That's not necessarilly all bad as Kuhn's paradigm may itself be overdue for an oil change.
First I will adress the idea of a change in the earths orbit.
The energy released by a hydrogen bomb is approximately 9e16 Joules
(http://www.barryrudolph.com/pages/atomic.html)
if i read the page right. Even so, we will assume this is a minimum, and maybe the asteroid had an energy release at impact 1 million times that times that so
Ei = 9e22 Joules.
The Kintic Energy of The Earth = .5 m v^2.
v = 2 Pi R / T = 2 Pi 1.5e11/(60x60x24x365) = 10^4 m/s
Ke = .5 (10^27) (10^4)^2 = 10^35
Comclusion: There is nowhere near enough energy for there to be a significant change in the earth's orbit.
Now for the tilt argument.
The angular momentum of your asteroid = m v cross R where R is the radius of the earth. (We are in the inertial frame of the earth which is good enough for this calculation) The magnitude of the angular momentum of the earth is I w, where I = 1/5 m_earth R^2 and w is the angular velocity of the earth. I really don't feel like doing this calculation because I don't have all the numbers but I beleive the angular momentum of the asteroid will be piteously small.
Finnaly a note onthe integrity of science. Everyone fights for the theories they beleive are correct. I would caution anyone however who beleives what they see on TV. Science does not work like that. Everyone who has ever heard of a null hypothesis knows what i am talking about. We never accept a theory. We never prove a theory is correct. Science is based on the idea that there exists a claim which can be refuted. We can refute claims or reject the null, or we can not refute the null. We never prove the null. Semantics, yes, but this is an important point in the philosophy of science. a good example is also this neutrino hubbub. We have yet to prove that the neutrino has mass. Many people beleive that it does, but no one would say that it is anywhere near certain. Same with your asteroid theory. People tend to follow leaders in feilds, but people get shaken all the time. Look at Einstein and how quickly his ideas were accepted, and he argued that the speed of light = c in a moving train.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
-james H.
If a 10 km. wide asteroid is too paltry, what would it take? A 100 km. wide asteroid? A 1000 km. wide asteroid?
And what if your assumed value of 9e22 joules is 100 or 1,000,000 or 10^10 times too low?
How much energy would it take to nudge the earth off course?
The one informal calculation I found actually supported my hypothesis -- to my surprise. This bit of serendipity encouraged me to proceed; still, I'm banishing it from serious contention as not being rigorously arrived at.
(To repeat: this hypothesis is a longshot, but it may be that the asteroid need not be as large as common sense would dictate to effect an alteration in tilt or orbit)
Quirky quarky theoretical physics is an atypical scientific field: here the counterintuitive and unexpected are normative.
You wrote: Science is based on the idea that there exists a claim which can be refuted.
My retort: egos are inflated by Nobel Prizes, prestigious posts, and sizeable grants.
Most meat-and-potato scientists know little and care less about the philosophy or history of science.
that's one hell of a suckout!!
Post deleted at author's request.
You're too emotionally sensitive to criticism, Badger. You remind me of Rounder, who is emotionally over-sensitive too. You can't handle criticisms at all. What a waste for you to leave this forum. You've given many very good advice over the past few months. I hope that you reconsider.
I can't say I blame you. I think you are probably one of the most under appreciated world champions that contribute here. And how are you thanked? Every word, every thought is twisted and misrepresented to further the agenda of those who are in awe of your incredible gift for communication and clear thinking.
The barbs and subtle innuendos that are hurled your way like shoes thrown at a cat screeching in an alley under a tenement window are the weapons of a vast right wing conspiracy out to discredit you and all those who speak for truth justice and the American way. Go Badger, and God speed. May you light the path so others can follow. And Don't look back, never look back, lest you turn to salt.
(Too Much??)
What a friggin cry baby.
I have been reading this Forum for just about 7 months and I am amazed at some of the stuff people tolerate around here. David Sklansky has been called a liar, a cheat, a swindler and much more. Mason Malmuth is routinely berated by some posters here. Even a great guy like Jim Brier who helps everyone and anyone is accused of being mean and malicious by Andy Fox in that very revealing play by play between Roy Cooke and Bob Morgan.
And now Badger is fed up with it and he's not going to take it anymore? Fine, go, but why the tearful goodbye? Did you expect some grassroots outcry, some sort of 2+2 mutiny to oust the authors and instate you as premiere personality?
And what's this crap about deleting your posts from the archives. Forgive me but it sounds like you're taking your ball and bat and going home. Well, the game will go on, the forum will not disintegrate, but you will be missed.
After all, hardly anyone I know ever heard of the movie Suddenly. Great Flick.
Post deleted at author's request.
There are other people involved in your posts. This kind of interchange is like a tapestry. You pull your posts from the archives and suddenly the whole thread is affected. The input from others, thoughtfully written or carelessly mean, loses context.
I have followed this forum long enough to have seen similar reactions. In fact, David Sklanksy wrote off RGP awhile back. Someone called him evil or whatever, and Ismet challenged him to a three hundred dollar bet he'd be back. I won't challenge you to a three hundred dollar bet, I can't afford to lose three hundred dollars right now. Besides you sound down, man.
Steve Badger:
I'm with Daniel Patton on this one.It's, not fair to the other posters who have had exchanges with you in the past.I had an exchange with you back in May (You called me a troll,I called you the Bobby Knight of the internet).I don't want any of my post to be deleted and if they delete yours,mine are going to look kind of strange (well stanger then normal:-).
I just got out of the hospital(heart failure) today and joked to the wife that I can't wait to find out which poker guru is fueding with whom. I turn on the internet and what do I find out? Steve Badger is mad,real mad,at Mason Malmuth.So mad that he will no longer post here and wants to wash his hands of Two Plus Two( I know those are not your words,got to give you something to accuse me of making up "-).
Well Steve, just one man's thoughts, but I think you should reconsider leaving. The knock on Two plus Two, by a lot of people, is either the deletion of post,or the hero worship of the Two Plus Two hierarchy. Your departure ,and the departure of your posts would do more harm then good to the people who come here to learn and exchange thoughts on this wonderful game of poker.
Sometimes your right,sometimes your wrong,sometimes you get downright out of line. All in all you bring a lot to the table for both the lurkers and the posters of this site.
I enjoy RGP but a lot of the post there are missing from my screen.I still read as much as I can there,but I rarely get the whole thread,some are always missing.If all of your post go over there,It's just more post I want to read that never come up on my screen:-(
In closing,Sorry to get sappy here but here goes:
The other day while in my hospital bed, I got the news that while my 76 year old father was coming to visit me he had a stroke and was now in the same hospital as me.
My point,you can do what you want but there's a lot worse things in the world to be mad about then Mason's website(YOU DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE HERE).
Good Luck Steve
Howard
To Howard- I just received a newsletter stating that they have recently discovered that exercise is very helpful for heart failure as long as you take it easy. This reverses what had previously been thought. If this is news to you, I would suggest that you talk to your doctor.
%
Thanks
Post deleted at author's request.
xx
It appears that Badger is leaving, not because his opinions are being attacked but rather because he feels like his integrity is being questioned (not by me). I'm used to that but I guess he is not. I would point out however that there are a lot of lurkers and semi beginners out there who avidly read the advice he directs at them. I'm kind of surprised he would abandon them.
amen, david
I will be visiting 2+2 less if badger dissappears. David, Mason, Ray, Abdul, Vince (vince, you are a natural writer -- i'm serious)and several others are the posts i click on always. Particularly helpfull pieces I cut and save, and *many* are from badger. Of course do what you want, B, but don't think you are not appreciated.
sincerely
lurker (NB or pierre)
Steve, I hope you reconsider. Regardless of your personal or strategic differences with Mason or anyone else, I hate to see a serious thinker leave the forum. Dissenting opinions should always be welcome, especially when they are backed up with some excellent analysis.
However, I don't think it's appropriate that all your old messages be deleted. They're part of the structure of the archives, which are a valuable research tool for everyone. Removing your messages would render many of those threads incomprehensible and misleading.
Steve,
Dan Hanson said exactly what I would have set, but more elegantly.
I’ll just add good luck, I’ll miss you, and I don’t think you can or should take your old posts with you.
Regards,
Rick
Please delete all of my old posts. What's good enough for Badger is good enough for me. By the way, be sure to watch my speech tonight and then don't forget to vote for me in the fall. I will make poker legal in all 49 states.
I think I have gained knowledge from many of your contributions. I am not kissing your ass, but I think you have made significant contributions and think you should continue posting. I'll still read your column(s), but there is nothing like "live" stuff. I respect your decision to stop. You could have stopped without saying anything; just disappeared. Thanks for the notice, but I hope you would reconsider. Just because I never addressed your posts directly did not mean I never studied them.
Badger,
Good luck and thanks for telling me over a year ago "that I don't usually read these posts". You gained alot of respect from me for saying that, because you spoke the truth about how you felt. You have Omaha advice as well as other advice that I will miss. Take care and maybe our paths will cross someday. Remember it's only what the mirror says back to you that matters.
Paul
Please reconsider.
As Willie Nelson once said,
"I didn't come here and I'm not leaving".
Oh, grow up Badger. You're just trying to be like me. First, I say "Hasta la vista, baby". Then I say "I'll be back". You'll be back before you know it, Badger. Believe me, you will.
- HHH, good luck.
xx
Steve, I will be sorry to see you leave. I am relatively new to poker and this forum and your posts have been very valuable in helping me to learn the game. I would like you to reconsider.
It must be very upsetting to have people take shots at what you have to say or what you have written in the magazine. Well, I have seen rude, ignorant people say rude ignorant things from time to time on this forum. Some have shown up in this thread. It is they, not you, who have the problem. Let it go.
I was just telling my wife last night that sometimes playing poker is like playing with a bunch of three year olds, the way they argue with each other. Don't let the three year olds drive you out of this forum where you obviously have a lot of supporters. I am new to the game, but old to life. Email if you like. If I can give you moral support, I will.
Delete my posts. I am not coming back. I am a big baby. Whaa, whaa, whaa. Sniffle, sniffle. Poor me, someone said something bad to me. MOMMA! MOMMA! Yes Stevie honey what is it? MOMMA they said bad things to me...SLAP!... Grow up you big baby! WHAaaaaaa!
Post deleted at author's request.
/
I will personally pay you a dime a day not to leave. Thus you must either stay or come up with another excuse.
David,
How much would you have offered The Beatles to reunite? Your answer will tell Badger where he really stands.
There are morons like me who find RPG cumbersome to navigate. Good luck.
Steve Badger,
I have not been following many posts here on THE forum lately. I was looking for something Sklansky has posed when I came accross this the above. Since your posts always interest me even if mine seem somewhat unworthy of your attention opened this thread. I take it from what you say above that you prefer rgp. I read into your comments that the problem that you have with 2+2 is that it is a commercial site. I do not read rgp. I have little enough time to scan the internet as it is so I read and post only here on 2+2. I speak only for myself.
I understand that this is a commercial site. Therefore the hosts have a profit motive along with any other motive they may have for running and contributing to this forum. Gary Carson, Scott, the Feeney boys, Andy Prock, Jim Brier, that Glover guy, M, Fossilman, Ratso, Me, etc, etc, etc do not have any other motive than interactive discussion. I don't know about the other, as I have said I speak for me. You have been an exceptional contributor to this forum. For that I thank you!
Vince.
...perhaps even more than I am at times. He gets all worked up about who is right or wrong instead of emphasizing learning above petty issues. I don't think he took it too kindly when Sklansky showed that he was wrong about the AQ late reraising against the early JJ's (by giving a simple formula for play that would guarantee his grandmother could show a profit with the JJ's against Badger in that spot). He "sniffed bait and swam away" the next time rather than stick his neck out. He took the debate about Strategy vs. Tactics to heart so much that his next column was a rehash with the emphasis on supporting his position.
Now I don't care if he is right or wrong about anything. And guess what? He shouldn't care much either. Right or wrong should not be the issue here. The point is, is he willing to discuss analyses to get to the bottom of the analysis or is there too much ego involved. An example is Vince's recent scenario of late 88's against an all-in UTG raiser. Apparently the further analysis surprised even Sklansky, and Sklansky was the first to tell Vince that it was a "no-brainer." I was quick to tell Vince he was wrong. But a deeper look indicates that it appears to be different under the surface. Good ol' Vince somehow came up with another surprise question, although this time he didn't cook it up.
There is a quote from an old Chinese book, the Tao Te Ching, which goes something like this: "If the one is right while the other is wrong, and the other is right while the one is wrong, then the best thing to do is behold the light beyond right and wrong."
Now I have been a great wuss in my day on certain occasions, and I have usually lived to regret it. It sure sounds like Badger is being a wuss here. He might just like RGP better and that is fine--he should spend his time wherever he feels like it. But this delete nonsense and everything else sounds awfully babyish.
I have also noticed that on many occasions he tends to get very emotionally involved in the threads, even when they are just poker threads. I think he might find it a little easier even on RGP if he took a little more clinical and less emotional approach to the discussions. This appears to be one reason he so often seems to get involved in charged debates with a personal flavor. Gary Carson tends to inject a more personal acidic tone, but Badger tends to absorb more acid. Since his posts are often very blunt with a touch of personal feeling, people respond in kind and that sets things going.
There is little doubt that one of the most important attributes of a successful player should be continual improvement. Badger should do whatever the hell he wants. But he won't find as many people on RGP as capable of showing him when he is wrong, poker-wise, as he will on 2+2. If one's goal is to not be shown wrong on occasion, RGP is definitely the better choice. If one's goal is an interchange and exploration of higher level concepts, 2+2 is the better choice. It all depends on one's priorities. Just as at the poker table, people will irritate you on the forums. What do you do about it? Why should it be all that much different? So I will, in the spirit of "what do you do about it at the table", not beg Badger to stay, but rather tell him that he is indeed being a wuss.
Post deleted at author's request.
Enuf said, I'll check you out on that cumbersome, black and white, hard to follow, inane (at times) RGP site. Best wishes,
Ratso Ripoff (1st time I used my last name)
"If Mason can't behave like a decent person, and David can't help but also behave indecently to coverup for him,"
Badger,
Your read on people is so influenced by your own bias that you constantly berate people soley for the reason of not agreeing with you. Mason Malmuth is one of the most DECENT people I have ever met. You seem to believe that Mason and David gain some benefit from LYING about you! As if they will profit from demise. I am beginning to believe that you hold yourself up somewhere that us mere mortals are not allowed. It seems to me that most of the name calling I see between you, Mason and David eminates from your mouth. Why is it you can't just do the analysis and refrain frm personalizing your comments? It's one thing to humorously ping on another person but there is no humor in anything you say concerning our 2+2 hosts. Give it a break!
Vince.
Mason Malmuth is one of the most DECENT people I have ever met.
All right that is going too far. I must intercede.
Did you all see my speech last night? Sucked huh?
Please don't vote for George W. in the fall, I need the job and if I don't win the election my wife will lose her account and D.C. Tent and Awning.
Post deleted at author's request.
And I didn't say anything about movies. I might still post to this, the "other topics" forum.
Oh Christ! Just go away and be gone! I could never stand your supercilious attitude anyway.
I think the problem is that he hasn't won every tournament he's played in and is starting to tilt.
I knew there would be hell to pay when he sucked out and won the WSOP event. He has been a giant pain in the ass ever since.
Too bad RGP has got you now. There goes that forum. Pretty soon you'll be asking God to delete your posts. Jesus please save us!
Good bye. Don't come back. We won't miss you.
OK Badger, if that is the only reason I admit it is different. I have not deeply followed the latest issue you mention, in part because I have no way to know what is really going on.
However, I find it rather hard to believe that Mason and David would both flat out deliberately lie about you.
My guess is that there is likely to be at least a partial misunderstanding somehow involved in this situation.
Wondering if you ever saw Compulsion. Great movie about the Leopold and Loeb thrill killings in the 30's. Dean Stockwell (incredible child actor that Hollywood didn't ruin), Bradford Dillman, EG Marshall (loved him in The Defenders) and Orson Welles overacting the part of Clarence Darrow.
Post deleted at author's request.
Steve - Nothing that hasn't already been said ... I find your lessons very valuable and I will miss them.
I guess a lot of people have strong feelings for/against both 2+2 and RGP. I personally find 2+2 much better for poker content, with much less advertisements, junk, and personal attacks than RGP. So I read and post much more here.
I'll try to catch you some on RGP.
Dick
there is a big man livin way up in montanna and he so damm mean once killed a bear with a bannana
the mens call him mr and the womans call him honey when the cards hit the table womans hide all they mens money
he dont need no caps he dont use no punctuation when you ax him what to do he say depens on situation
who you think this crazy mountain poker player be he just a fella name a ray name a big ray zee
Ray, I would not open my mail for a while.......or answer the door for that matter.
Come and listen to a story bout a man named ray.
He bought Montana cause he liked to get away.
He wasn't scared of black bears and he wasn't scared of snakes
And he wsn't scared of gambOOLers who loved to play high stakes
Poker that is, Stud, Hold Em.
Do you think Ray "Uncle Jed" Zee carries that "couple unhundred thousand" in pocket money still? You know, the one he was always trying to give away to help a good cause.
Ellie Mae rocks!
betelguesebetelgeusebetelseuse
Not sure if this is acceptable use or not ... and it's only slightly poker related ... but I was more than pleasantly surprised tonight to see the advertisement at the top of the screen for About.com.
Reason: one of the hats I wear is as the new Auto Racing Guide there.
I haven't yet figured out how to combine poker with auto racing but I'm working on it. Anyone have a suggestion how I can do that ... email me please!
And if you like auto racing come over and say "hi!" (Just click on the ad at the top of the screen then search for "auto racing" ... you'll find my area and the good folks here will get their affiliate brownie points.)
-- Jae
Though Mason hates plugs, I believe he relaxes that stance somewhat when that which you are plugging is giving him money.
The Discovery Channel complex had a program on video surveilance. Wanting to be real, I have tried to find out exactly what, where and when but...try to trust me.
They, the producers, were trying to show the affects of video surveilance and the growing technology behind it on our lives. The program discussed a new concept to me, 'biometrics'. Basically a computer finger print of your whole 'self', that could be picked up by software, anywhere the technology exists. The program touted the benefits. Bad guys. This technology could be used to supress Bad Guys.
The program went to Las Vegas, video surveilance center of the universe. An example they used was a card counter. This person was clearly defined as a Bad Guy. I am a card counter. I am not a Bad Guy. The whole point is: It is very important who you let define who is a Bad Guy.
P.S. to Badger, you see what I mean about 'carelessly mean', right after I posted to you, I find another post called, 'don't let the door hit you in the ass'. If you see this, maybe I should have bet you three hundred dollars. I could use the money.
Perhaps its sort of like apples and oranges, but here we go....
Say there are 2 guys. One of them has averaged $30/hr playing Holdem for the last 5 years. The other has exactly the same record as a day trader.
Who's standard deviation is higher? Who is more likely to continue making $30/hr? Who is more reliant on luck?
When debating this with a friend, I said that day trading is more risky, because the market cannot be predicted. A deck of cards and a random shuffle can be counted on to behave itself over the course of 5,000 or 10,0000 hours. The stock market however, cannot.
He said that with trading, one can "know" that a stock will go up today, but a poker player can never "know" that he'll make his flush, etc.
Seemed like an interesting topic to post here.
B$
The Trader is more reliant on Luck.
Psychological.
When in a losing Poker situation, a poker hand is over very soon.
When in a losing Trading situation, every hour or every day or every month is a constant reevaluation of the Trader’s original reason to take the position.
Stop losses notwithstanding, there are many millionaire stock and commodity traders that, with just a little less luck, would be in the grave.
By their own hand.
hmm... well put. thanks B$
I'll Tell You Why Poker Has A Bad Name Is Nasty Poker Players. Like At The WSOP For Instance I Wont Menchen Names, There Was A Pkoke Player Very Nasty For Years Finnally Thrown Out For Attacking A Security Guard. But He Always Trys To Intimidate Them With Threts And Drinks Like A Lush. ( M.L. ) This Person Follows Alot Of Tournaments, Also One Day People Like That Will Be Banned And Then You Will Have A Better Turnout With New Poker Players. But Now He Will And Some Others Will Give It A Bad Name And Scare New Players Away. Because Also After They Get A Bad Beat And Knocked Out Of A Tournament He Will Want To Start A Threat, To Scare The Bo Person.
The King
I'm going to be spending some time in Hawaii. Any poker in Maui?
There are some home games that go here and there, but not much action in hawaii. It is one of two states that have no (zero, zip, zilch) forms of legalized gambling. Email me for some underground leads if you really want them.
If you can't find something better to do while on Maui than play poker, then why go there?
ok...this idea of splitting the HE forum into general, small stakes, medium stakes, high stakes etc sucks..no offense.
Let's face it, most of the strategic advice that is given on the HE forum is not very dependant on whether you are playing 2-4 or 30-60. Now, I have to wade through 4 different HE forums to find out what the superstars on this board have to say about the play of hands. Sorry, but I just don't have that kind of time on my hands.
Please stop this lunacy and take it back to the way it was.
If it ain't broke, why fix it?
.
Many of the games tend to play quite differently at different limits. In addition, most players play within a range and do not play all limits. This way you do not have to wade through posts about limits that do not interest you. PL/NL are especially different.
Perhaps you did not notice that we still have general holdem forum. Use the other ones only if you think it is appropriate.
The Holdem Forum gets so much use that threads of interest are often quickly buried. Offering the option to split up some of this should help alleviate this problem.
The links should be to individual posters like below
Theory and Strategy
Poker
... Jim Brier (Straight to the matter)
... Vince Lepore (Funny Insights)
... Dan Hanson (Renaissance Man)
... Abdul Jalib (Loyal Opposition)
... Izmet Fekali (The boy who loves him)
... Rick Nebiolo (On the Run Wisdom)
... Louie Landale(Acidic Analyses)
... David Sklansky (El Supremo)
... Mason Malmuth (the boy who loves him)
... ray zee (Anytime anywhere anygame anystakes)
With this menu you can go right to the threads that contain your favorite posters instaed of wading through all the nonsense from guys like me.
Give it a shot Chuck.
I'm with SKP on this one. A lot of advice is applicable to all limits, and interesting threads are liable to be missed because they are in the wrong forum.
The last split made sense because the sheer volume of posts was overwhelming. It hasn't been that way recently. Splitting the Holdem section into limits makes no more sense than having a forum for 'tight games', 'loose games', 'agressive games', etc.
Under the new format, where would you put a thread that discussed variations in strategy between 2-4 and 20-40? In the low-limit forum? High limit forum? It doesn't make much sense.
Anyway, you need a certain density of readers and posters to keep a message board alive. By thinning those posts out, you run the risk of having sections die. For instance, if there aren't any posts about low-limit poker for a few days, people will stop checking that forum, and then when a thread starts there it won't get responded to, and people will stop posting. I've seen this happen to other boards.
Dan:
As I said in another location, we will be watching to see how this breakup does. If it makes things worse, we can always go back to the former format. If it helps, like we tink it will, then it will stay. I suggest that people such as yourself post your opinions of the new format in about a week. Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised.
Sure. I'm always willing to try something new.
I'm willing to go along with Dan and adopt a 'wait and see' attitude. At first, I thought as others do that this was not only overkill, but that it would dilute to overall quality of the Forum. Although I play in low limit games, generally at 6-12 and below, with the occasional foray into 10-20, I do not consider myself a typical 'low-limit' player per se. I am trying to elevate my game into more advanced thinking than the typical LL player I come up against, and when I post a hand, I want as much feeback as possible from ALL levels of player.
I'm not sure I will get that quality feedback if I post a hand in the 'Under 6-12' section, just because I played the hand at LL, but had got into a higher level of analysis and thinking about the hand. I'm out of town all next week and unlikely to have time to read the Forum, so we'll se how things are progressing by the end of the month.
Last November when there was only one forum I wrote the following post, which is still in the archives if anyone is interested:
Break Up Microsoft - I Mean the Forum! Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net) Posted on: Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 2:25 a.m.
Amazingly, a month or so later the forum was broken up and 2+2 came up with sub-forums I never even thought of that have been very successful. I believe the December 1999 change has been mostly for the better.
Once again we have the problem on the holdem forum of great threads started in the morning getting buried by the end of the day. This is a bummer for all of us as. In addition, there is a problem with the speed of loading the message index, which is solved somewhat if you have a high-speed Internet connection.
Other posters have made good points. Four forums may be too many. By labeling a forum low limit, will it attract top quality posts? If a forum is too specific, it may not achieve the “critical mass” needed to ensure timely participation. And some posts seem to fall between categories.
I think changes were needed but I agree that four holdem forums are too many. If changes need to be made, the following are my suggestions (note that some apply to forums other than the holdem forum).
First, I would break out pot limit and no limit and open it to all games. Then it would include PL and NL Holdem, PL Omaha Hi, PL and NL Lowball, and NL Mexican Stud among other games played no limit. PL and NL are so different that they deserve their own space. And by combining all games, we would have the “critical mass” needed to keep many people returning to visit and contribute on a regular basis
If I had to divide limit holdem, I would restrict it no more than two categories. Four is too many. But where to split is problematic. Right now the best I can think of is Low To Mid Limit Holdem (2/4 to 9/18) and Mid To Upper Limit Holdem (10/20 and Higher). If someone wants both low and upper limit perspectives, post it on both. Or if someone has a post concerning a tough 6/12 game, post on the “Mid to Upper Limit Holdem” forum.
The Tournament, Internet, Other Poker Games, Other Gambling Games, Stock Market and Beginners forums seem to be fine. Don’t mess with these.
The Exchange forum needs to be split up and renamed. I’ve gotten a great kick out of learning or zee’s encounters with bears, Dan Hanson’s politics, reading movie reviews, and all the other fun stuff. But one forum should be dedicated to Poker News and one could be called Poker Players Discuss Other Topics. RGP dominates on Poker News right now but this could become the site for quality news. And I think many of us are having fun with the non-poker stuff while still contributing to the meat of the forum.
At the beginning of every message index, there could be a two line “mission statement” (i.e., a few sentences describing the purpose of the particular forum). I’m sure webmaster Chuck could put in a button where a regular could turn it off. The forum that needs a clear mission statement the most is the “General Poker Theory” forum. I’m still not sure what goes there.
Finally, a few things need to be cleaned up. On the home page, put a photograph of Ray Zee that is less than twenty years old. The link titles on the left pane should match up precisely. They don’t now. And maybe there is a little problem with the site correctly tagging visited links. But that topic deserves its own post.
In the meantime, I’ll give this version a fair shake.
Regards,
Rick
P.S. I wondered where to put this post since even this discussion is spread out over at least two forums.
Post deleted at author's request.
Badger,
As one comedian said about Celine Dion-- "Honey, If you want us to miss you, you have to go away!!"
This is a catastrophe for us. We were two-thirds of the way through our new book "The Best of Carson and Badger."
Best one-liner I've seen on this site.
Brett
PS Did Gary leave too?
Hey Badger, I'm thinking of having my first ever joint! Want to tag along?
Vince.
Vince,
You're kidding! You mean you write the way you do.... Ah, forget it.
"Don't let Daddy hear it; he don't believe in that ginmill spirit."
Best,
John
Well, I can't top the book idea so I won't try. However, after reading John Cole's post below in response to Vince, I naturally thought of John and of Literature. Suddenly a phrase popped out of nowhere:
"Much Ado About Nothing"
Mark,
Of course, Shakespeare's audience knew that "nothing" meant something; it was Elizabethan slang for "vagina."
For what it's worth or what you will ;-}
John
PS. I'll miss Badger's acerbic wit and his knowledge of movies, music, and things military.
I never read that work of Shakespeare, or about it.
Badger was alson always good for an emotionally charged debate about hands or other points of interest. I was amazed at the extent of his movie knowledge also.
I guess the stronger one's opinions, the more upsetting it may be to be contradicted. I find that as I go through life I am constantly contradicted (and occasionally affirmed).
I think Badger should consider tagging along with Vince.
Good riddance.
It's too late. I have downloaded and printed out a compilation of Badger's posts. I will print it on recycled paper, and sell it through Gambler's Book Club for $1.95. I'm thinking of calling it, "The Best of Badger's Blather".
I will include a 2-for-1 coupon for the famous Surf buffet in Vegas and a $2 matchplay good at the Western Hotel/casino, just to make sure people buy the book.
.
...they are almost all about the movie "Rounder". - Rick
this guy sammy b is funny and makes great posts. i hope he sticks around and tells us some things about himself(where he is from what he plays and the like). its possible if he works out ill put him on my million dollar payroll of favorite posters. those that are not recieving checks from me of at least 10,000 should post more often with better content and the money may start flowing in.
Eez,
In honor of Badger leaving I thought I'd go to the archives for the real answer.
"badger any of several related members of the WEASEL family. Most are large, nocturnal burrowers with broad, heavy bodies, long snouts, sharp claws, and long, grizzled fur. The Old World badger (Meles meles), found in Europe and N Asia, weighs about 30 lb (13.6 kg) and feeds on rodents, insects, and plants. The smaller American badger (Taxidea taxus) has short legs and a white stripe over the forehead and around each eye; a swift burrower, it will pursue prey into their holes and may construct its own living quarters 30 ft (9.1 m) below ground level."
ukw
Ray,
I like SammyB stuff too. But, I thought that my trip report would get you to put me on your payroll. If you think I was bad, tell me what I did wrong. I need someone to buy a percentage of me, just like Fossil (he he he).
Thanks for the kind words, ray.
I live on Long island. I play low-limit holdem on Planet Poker, there's a sammyb on paradise and that's not me. (Probably scott or Niels). when I get a chance I play at the Taj and usually do quite well at 5-10 there. I'll be coming out to Vegas the first week in November and am looking forward to meeting David, Mason, Jim, Vince, yourself and whoever else is in town then.
Again, I'm really glad you enjoy the stuff I write. I pretty much write to amuse myself and hope there's someone else out there that gets it. The best thing is that now when my wife and kids tell me that I'm the only one who thinks I'm funny I can say, "Not anymore!!"
never met anyone from long island i liked. i used to ride out there from jersey every nite to roosevelt for the trotters and all the drivers from l.i. were creeps. who said you were funny, did i say that. i said i like your posts. dont get a big head so fast or we will squash it around here.
My mistake, I guess I sort of misunderstood what you meant when you wrote, "this guy sammy b is funny".
As for getting a big head, no need to worry, now that badger's gone you were short one big head anyway.
i was joking
so was I, well, except for the part about badger having a big head.
I've watched a bit of both political conventions these past few weeks. It never ceases to amaze me that people writhe in apperent ecstacy in response to a politicians words.
I would be amazed too but I think it is so boring I can't bring myself to watch. Besides, I don't have a TV.
x
The only coverage I watched is on "The Daily Show". Absolutely hilarious.
I wish they had an anti democrat convention. That would be worth watching !!! :-)
Wait what am I saying???? I never could have posted this message if Al Gore hadn't invented the internet for all of us.
If you think Gore is/will be bad, wait till you get a load of Geo. Bush. His level of inability far exceeds Gore. The charasmatic Bush is a great guy, and I would love to hang around with him, but as President of the US.....simply not qualified.
Like it or not, Gore is hands down the most qualified. It is probably the best we could do.
And the conventions......they both suck.
Al Gore is too f*cking liberal. If Al Gore had his way, our government would have dominance over almost everything we do and we would pay taxes similar to what people pay in Sweden. And the crap about him "being instrumental in the founding of the internet" is such poppycock...... Another thing about him is that he is on a mission to destroy big tobacco companies. Okay so smoking sucks, but where do you think his wealth came from????? (he comes from a family of wealthy tobacco farmers) If he was truly dedicated to his word he should donate all that "dirty" money of his to some charity or something. Anyway, Gore is a crook- maybe just as much as Slick Willie.
As far as the republicans are concerned, I just wish Bush would have gotten either Colin Powell, Alan Keyes (even though he is kind of a religious nut), or McCain. I guess none of them were options but I think it would have improved his odds to win. Oh well at least Dick Cheney is not a crook. I guess thats about all this punker has to say about politics for now- poker, music and chicks are more interesting- I think we can all agree on that :-)
Goat,
You are the only punker I have ever heard of identifying himself as a Republican. What is the world coming to?
KJS
Yeah I am one of the very few. One of the guys in my old band was, get this: A punker, republican, and Mexican. Now thats a rare combo!
I am hoping you are not a registered voter. I only regret I cannot vote more that once for Gore. Under the GOP, the Rich get Richer and the rest the taken. If you are rich, then you should definitely vote for Bush. If you are a working person, you have to vote for Gore.
You are wrong about the non-rich getting taken under Bush. That is just liberal scare talk. Who wants to raise taxes?????? Its the democraps, NOT republicans. Get your ideas straight.
First, it is impossible to be a Punk rocker and a republican. You are mearly a rocker. Punks ain't republicans.
Second, who gives a damn if taxes stay the same as long as services remain intact
You probably pay very little taxes since Punk rockers ...oh I mean Rockers do not make much money, and it won't make much difference to you; probably enough for a couple Dead Kennedy's CD's.
Finally, The GOP only want to cut taxes for the wealthy. It has always been that way, and will always be that way. Actually, the GOP has some pretty good fiscal ideas. I like a lot the Republican money ideas, except of course Arther Laffer's trickle down ecnomics and supply side ecnomics (Voodoo ecnomics remember that?)
Stop listening to mom and dad and decide for yourself. Read (and not Rush Limbaugh)
Since someone makes more money and would be a beneficiary of a larger tax cut than me, I should be willing to give up mine? Now if that isn't fuzzy thinking!
If I make 30K and BIG OIL makes 100 billion. The tax cut is 0.1%. That gives me a net $30. That gives the US treasury 100 million $$$. Yes, I would give up MY tax break.
How much are you paying for gasoline and heating oil/gas? Do you think big oil is making a lot of profits or is it the environmental rules for clean air (ha, ha) that cause the prices to rise and stay up there. Under Nixon when interest rates went to 20% and money markets were paying 19% interest, credit cards raised their rates. As interest dropped, and money markets dropped to 3-7%, credit cards stayed (no they went UP) to 19%. Think the banks are doing OK?
Are you better off now than you were 10 years ago. I definitely know so. The thingthat pisses off the GOP is that Clinton and his administration have taken many of the fiscal policies of the Republicans and put them to work. The GOP is pissed because he got he ecnomy is good shape using their ideas. Who cares who did it. It works.
The republicans are so pissed at Clinton that if he died, they would dig him up just to continue to bust his balls.
The sex thing is over. Who really cares.
The new "leaked" inditement just when the Dems had the convention is childish and is going to cost the US treasury a lot of YOUR money. If the GOP stopped chasing Clinton to a dead end, the money saved would amount to a significant tax cut. This inditement is a perfect example of the rich getting richer at YOUR expense. Who benefits here--the lawyers, the PR companies and investigators of course. I wonder how many Senators/congressmen will have to travel all over the world with ther families/mistresses to "investigate" connections that he had in Europe and China?
Aren't you (we ) tired of this crap. Lets all play poker and get _____________ (fill in for yourself)
Respectfully (yea),
Ratso
Of course I'm tired of a lot of this crap. That's why I support the Libertarians. I think the Demecrats are the worst of the bunch.
Ratso,
I do think for myself and I have never read a Limbaugh book. I do listen to him occaisionally but I think his ego is a little too big. The whole punk subject is probably boring for most people here so I won't go into it again, but believe me, one can be both. Some of us are conservative, some liberal and others hate both parties. I would estimate that the percentage of true punks (not wannabies who think they are punk because they listen to CD's from punk bands) that are also conservative is very low, but there are also very few minorities too- Does that mean they are only rockers and not punks? I think not. Racist skinhead punks are the types of people that would say a minority couldn't be punk. Of course that is ridiculous, but that is essentially what you are saying about me simply because of my political affiliation. I want to say that I am not heavily into politics but pay plenty of attention to whats going on. I don't just listen to the conservative sides either. I sometimes watch CNN (liberal), O'Reily Factor (right down the middle), and Hannity and Colmes (Liberal and conservative). I am not closed minded and as a matter of fact I agree with a few liberal philosophies (very few)and disagree with some conservative philosophies. By the way I agree with you about trickle down economics. I think this was an idea that benefitted the rich way too much. Lower and middle class people need the tax cuts as much as anybody. The best solution would be to go to a flat tax and abolish the IRS. Unfortunately none of these republicans have the nuts to do it. Later, Kris
Kris, you are coming around. You have gained my ear and my respect. Actually, you watch good stuff. I also like Chris Matthews, and I also subscribe to the Limbaugh Letter. Anyway, I certainly respect your independent thinking and wish you would realize that there is a difference between the haves and have nots in America. We must be sympathetic to some extent for those less fortunate. I agree we should not just give things away. No party is perfect, but the Democrats seem to have more heart. I think Republicans are too worried about people getting over on them and thus really dislike welfare type programs. That's fair, but I resent BIG OIL (BIG INSURANCE, BIG UNIONS, BIG RELIGION etc.) getting over on us by not paying their fare share of taxes etc. I do not mind paying taxes (am I nuts?) because that means I am making money. If you get a chance read the boot, "The Politics of Rich and Poor" written by a former GOP strategists. It is quite enlightening and disturbing.
Ratso,
Yeah you hit the nail on the head by saying neither party is perfect. I realize that there are several people who are less fortunate and indeed with all the taxes we pay many of them should be helped. The thing that infuriates me though, is those people who want to live on welfare even though they are capable of working. Unfortunately Democrats (in general) are way too sympathetic to these types of blood sucking individuals. I often hear of people who are disabled or down on their luck yet refuse to take welfare. Then there are assholes who are just flat out lazy and just wait for their check to come in the mail. Have you ever seen people in line at the grocery store pay with food stamps? Oky nothing wrong with that but this one lady was buying all this expensive shit when she should obviously be buying generics and bulk package food. Even something this small adds up to millions of tax payer dollars. Problems with welfare are abundant and we need some serious reform (I don't think it should be abolished, just reformed). Working people should NOT pay taxes toward these non-productive leeches of our society. I could go on and on as I have heard and read plenty of stories on welfare abuse but I think you get my point. Also you were right that I think totally independantly but in general I am fairly well in line with the GOP. I do agree with some of the stuff democrats say, but some of it is just so blatently hideous to me that I have really grown to hate their party. Actually it is more the ACLU that I hate. They are way crooked. Ratso, maybe you could start a new thread if you want to bring up a new topic- I am too lazy to scroll all the way down here :-) Later Kris
.
Why is Cheneys college deferments less honorable than Liebermans or anyone elses - hell he is 59 and didn't dodge the draft like one clinton yellow liar.
Clinton is a crook!
x
Bush was a fighter pilot - served two years then on reserve status for 5 years - he wore the uniform and did his duty with honor. I resent you bashing him - specially from who probably supported a true yellow draft dodger - clinton.
bush showed admirable bravely successfully defending texas from all enemy fighter jets discovered in texas air space during those 2 years of harrowing active service.
scott
He did his duty and served his country smart ass - he was ready to go if called.
What have YOU done for your country lately besides take up space huh?
i am not going to pretend i have any idea of the gravity of the decisions people of my age face during war time. but elluding serving at the front by either educational defferments, alternate serice, or outright fleeing the country seem to me to be morally equivalent.
bush was not in texas because he could do more to ensure victory there than elsewhere. he was there because he (rightfully, it seems to me) did not want to die.
whether someone takes an educational deferment or joins the coast gaurd is of no consequence. they decide for themselves whether it is worth risking their life to help their country win the war.
if bush wanted to see action he would have. as he didn't, he didn't.
i am not judging any of anyone's decisions, but bush's ostensible participation has far more in common with clinton's draft dodging then with, say, mccain's genuine serive.
i may not do much good for anyone, but i take up about a third the space you do. in any case, the odds of me seeing action is incredibly small. it would be a rare war before i would even consider fighting on foriegn soil. plus the marines don't want me anymore after i told them i was a gay communist. all of sudden they stopped calling. go figure. and if they somehow got their hands on me and forced me to help them, they would probably have me breaking codes or some other noncombat activity.
my honest opinion, which i understand is quite limited by my lack of first hand experience, is that one had to either suffer from severe bloodlust or an acute lack of intelligence to pursue active combat duty in vietnam. but i am probably just missing the allure of it.
scott
Bush's service in the military is a joke, the U.S. would have been as safe from it's enemies had he spent those years of service guarding a traffic cone. And as for him being ready when his country called him, it wasn't like he was on a waiting list or anything, daddies influence got him a cushy little spot far away from the action that will look good on his resume. And I for one am tired of everyone going on about service to the country. If everyone who bitched about clinton's and similar people's draft dodging had voted for the one genuine war hero we've had then I would be voting republican this fall instead of deciding between the idiot and the stiff. C'mon, Bush has all his speeches written for him and he still manages to screw it up.
Second point, people don't learn from the mistakes of the past. Once again we have a charismatic person versus an uncharismatic one. People like Bush because he seems like a more natural guy then Gore, someone they'd like to see more off. In the same way he's a lot like Clinton, a southern governer full of charm. But does he deserve to be president? He coasted through school, had fantastic business deals handed to him (such as the rangers), and a seemingly prearranged political career. I'll concede that gore's career was pretty prearranged as well, so in the end I'm just voting for the least buffoonish.
my sentiments exactly, and also you left all your shit in my car.....damn crazy games
Clinton is a pig
Bush is the crook
Oh, look! Politicians without ethics!
I'm shocked!
Why do so many Republicans hate Clinton so much? I know many Democrats who simply will not vote for Bush, but they like him, even though he has done some sketchy stuff. Also, both Nixon and Reagan were not hated by the Dems. Well Reagan anyway.
We are really better off today than we were 10 years ago. Is there any doubt? If so, then I suggest you read the last 10 years of the Wall Street Journal
Ratso,
You are right that we are in good shape, but economies go through up and down trends all the time and the President only has a little bit to do with that. Remember that we have had a majority repuclican congress so Clinton couldn't get away with all his propositions. Luckily we have that great thing called checks and balances.
I could list a bunch of reasons why I absolutely hate Clinton but the list would be too long. I will say one thing about the whole Lewinsky thing. While I feel it was sort of blown out of proportion, the thing that gets me is that Clinton was such a convincing liar. He flat out LIED to the people he is supposed to serve. That is absolutely disgusting. The only time presidents should lie is when they have to protect national security, and those lies are intended to protect us from some foreign threat. Also, he tried to worm his way out of the lie by saying that he thought a BJ was not a sexual relationship! He has no dignity.
If the only things we can beat him up for are his personal conduct, then I think his presidency was pretty good. You said, "He flat out LIED to the people he is supposed to serve. That is absolutely disgusting."
So what? They all lied. Truman lied, Nixon lied alot as Veep, Kennedy (whew, he was king of the liers) and LBJ, man if her had Pinocchio's afflicition, he wouldn't fit in Air Force 1. Nixon was the Emperor of liers Reagan was the King of liers. Bush lied to everyone and forgot about it (Iran Contra, "No new Taxes"). Only Carter told the truth and you see what he got--no more years. So Clinton lying about a BJ (and I understand it was a very good one at that) is really no big deal. Even Jimmy Swaggert fell off the deep end once.
Frankly, I think if Trent Lott and newt Gingrich and Asa Huchinson etc. jot a BJ once in a while, they would be better off.
Ratso, You are right, a lot of these politicians are crooks. Let me give one other major democrat error: I don't know if Clinton was directly involved with this one but if he wasn't then it was one of his henchmen. The democrats are better defenders of the environment then republicans (this in general is good but the EPA has way too much power and they take this to extreme levels too often). Anyway, they had this great idea to make our fuel for cars less harmful to the air we breathe.......Good idea, but these idiots found that their legally required additive is now destroying our groundwater and soil in many places. Save the air, kill the ground. Another example of a liberal blunder.
Hey, if you're starting a 'blowjobs for all' party, then man, I'm with you!
Read my Lips!
Read "Earth in the Balance" and tell me again that Gore knows what he's doing.
Read ANYTHING by Bush then tell me what he knows except how to be part of a swindle. His $$$ deals with the Astros dwarfs Clinton's Whitewater.
Your a Canadian. You can't vote here. I suppose Lieberman on the ticket bothers you. Thank God for the democrats.
Oh, you are talking to Dan. I think Dan is simply a conservative "gov't leave me alone" type which is OK with me, but the gov't should protect the interests of BIG BUSINESS over the population. The gov't should protect BIG BUSINESS from outside influences and from itself.
x
..
Any LA players know.
Those people writhing in ecstacy are delegates and NOT average people. The Democratic delegates were much further to the left than the rank-and-file. The GOP delegates were much more conservative than the base of of the Republican party.
But at least the Republican delegates weren't selected with QUOTAS based on race, gender, disability, sexual orientation, and even a requirement for transgendered people. The Democrats have quotas for everything!
And shame on the Democratic delegates who lustily BOOED a group of boy scouts who were on stage!
The Republicans had a quota; rich, white, affluent, conservative, bigoted, selfish, excessive. they just did not announce it.
"The republican method for feeding the birds is to give more oats to the horses" (not my words, but sounds about right).
For those who loved Reagan, in that era, the GOP had a giant party and charged it all to the American people. (words of a republican...really)
Can 2+2 be far behind.
i was thinking more on the line of about 25% of what you win for the year or if you lose a flat 10,000 dollars. the forums here are worth that and of course a person would be expected to leave a big tip of at least 5% of their winnings. make sure i get the dough as david would just squander it on pretty girls. thanks for the idea Rounder as your fellow posters will appreciate you.
In the spirit of constructive criticism, may I suggest that you re-design the menus on the right? Serif typefaces are extremely difficult to read in small point sizes, especially when each one is a link with a line under it. You would be much better off switching to 'arial' or 'verdana' as a typeface. Verdana was specially designed for small menu text on web browsers, but it will make it a little wider.
Another suggestion: For browsers that can handle style sheets and DHTML (any 4.0 browser or above), strip the underlines off the links, and have the text color change on rollover. That makes the menus much easier to read. You still have to support the old menus for older browsers.
If you'd like some help with a few changes to your format, I'd be glad to volunteer some time.
Here's the difference, using 'arial':
• Theory and Strategy • Texas Hold'em
• General
(to $6-$12)
(to $30-$60)
(including pot-, no-limit)
• Archives
• Poker
• General Theory
Directory
• Books
• Authors
• Essays
• Calendar
• Feedback
• Home
• Theory and Strategy
• Poker
• Texas Hold'em
• General
(to $6-$12)
(to $30-$60)
(including pot-, no-limit)
• Archives
Directory
• Books
• Authors
• Essays
• Calendar
• Feedback
• Home
• Theory and Strategy
• Poker
• Texas Hold'em
• General
(to $6-$12)
(to $30-$60)
(including pot-, no-limit)
• Archives
Directory
• Books
• Authors
• Essays
• Calendar
• Feedback
• Home
Jeez, how do you do all this stuff...I still can't even figure out how to bold, italicize etc....but at least I can figure out which post to respond to unlike that bloke Sklansky:)
The third menu uses the 'Verdana' typeface, rather than 'Arial' as described.
if you cant keep your madonnas in line and your ariels right, how the heck can those of us that cant even find the key that makes capital letters figure out anything. i finally got my gps to tell me where i am so now i know where im not.
I just checked my GPS, and sure enough, I'm right here.
It's good to know these things.
Wasn't Arial the Little Mermaid? She was a babe. But she had fish parts.
I posted a message about 2 months ago that I was moving to Vegas. My move was delayed but I've finally arrived. I'd be interested in meeting any fellow two plus two posters. I should be playing 8/16 at the Bellagio, and 6/12 and 10/20 at the Mirage.
I'm a little over 6 feet tall, short brown hair and usually wear a Seattle Mariners sun visor. I should be playing 8/16 tonight (friday) at the Bellagio. If you spot me tonite or any other night please introduce yourself.
My email is atwoodK2@hotmail.com for any who want to email me.
too many people look like that, nobody will recognize you. wrap yourself in duct tape and hang a sign around your neck, that should get some attention from the players.
I'll try that tonite, I should be at the Mirage playing 10-20.
Just in case more than one person matches this description are we looking for a male or the other thing?
Last time I was in California was at maybe nine years old, so needless to say I haven't played any poker there. I always got the impression that the games there were looser and wilder because there aren't any house games available.
For example, in Atlantic City, or Vegas, someone who likes to gamble, and is loose and wild, might have alot more fun losing at craps, or even roulette, than at poker. But in California, he's got to play poker, or not play at all.
Do you west coast players think this is accurate? Do you think the opening of full casinos will hurt your games?
B$
Ray Zee I need your help. The upcoming election will be very close. I feel that Montana will be the swing state. I know that if Ray Zee will publicly support me then the rest of Montana will soon follow. Three electoral votes is three votes and it may very well come down to that. Ray Zee please vote for me and tell everyone you know to vote for me as well. If only bears could vote I would win in a landslide. I promise to make all of Montana non smoking and hunting and fishing legal every day of the year. God bless you Ray Zee and God bless The United States of America.
what good is having 365 day a year hunting going to be after you confiscate all of our guns you bedwetting pinko liberal communist hippie?
it doesnt matter as montana is so conservative republican that no candidates even bother to waste time on the state as its going all rebublican no matter what. thanks but i didnt sneeze?
No matter how conservative, many in the state hold out their hand towards DC, ranchers, farmers, loggers, other extractive industry workers, etc. Conrad Burns is very good at bringing the pork home to Montana.
you got that right Ed. the ones crying for the feds. to keep out of their lives are the first to beg for their cash.
Actually, I don't think this is true. Most libertarians or even rabid right wingers really DO want to be left alone. I think the opposite is true on the left. Show me a liberal who advocating a "woman's right to choose", or "the right of free speech", and the same personal will inevitably (and inexplicably) be the first one trying to legislate or regulate away YOUR right to smoke, gamble, work, send your children to private school, keep more than 60% of your paycheck, etc.
Maybe you can give us some examples of someone "crying for the feds to keep out of their lives", while also asking for a handout.
I think the liberal viewpoint is that you can smoke, but not if it affects me; you can send your kids to private school but not with my money; you can gamble all you want; you can have a gun, but get it registered in case it is used in a crime it can be traced.
This is almost laugable, but typical misrepresentation of the liberal orthodoxy. Let's take these one by one:
"you can smoke all you want, but not if it affects me"
The how can you explain the Clinton/Gore Administration's war on tobacco? Federal and state lawsuits, that in aggregate, will cost the industry nearly a trillion dollars. Federal excise taxes (regressive, mind you), that will drive up the price of cigarettes to over $5 per pack.
"You can have a gun, but get it registered in case it is used in a crime so it can be traced"
Bull*. That is the "conservative" position. Handguns of any type are illegal in New York City and Washington D.C. to name a couple of places. If Al Gore had his way, handguns, registered or not, would be illegal everywhere. The administration is also supporting federal and state lawsuits to hold the firearm industry responsible for gun-related deaths and medical costs. This is the tobacco model all over again. Take away individual rights at any cost, the constitution, due process, legislative checks and balances, and the rule of law be damned.
"you can send your kids to private school, but not with my money"
More like you can send your kids to rivate school with your OWN money, as long as you play taxes so that I can send my kids to public school on your nickel. Th9is works for the liberal enemy (the "well-off"), but what about the lower and middle income family who can't afford to pay taxes and afford private schools? That is what vouchers are all about. Your comment on this belies your true statist thinking. ALL wealth belongs to the state to dole out as the bureaucrats see fit. Its is really their/("my" as you stated) money.
"you can gamble all you want"
...as long as you gamble on state-sponsored lotteries that fund more ill-advised social engineering. Again, this is another regressive, hidden tax on the people. Additionally, hom many states have unfettered, legalized gambling rather than Indian Gaming handouts? Nevada is the only one that comes to mind. They just shut down our private poker room here in NYC.
An example from my Forest Service days, some ranchers expect subsidized grazing and water fees yet scream to high heaven to have to follow any land management directives.
Montana has elected Max Baucus (a pretty liberla Democrat) to the Senate for as long as I can remember. Before that, it was Mike Mansfield for about a billion years. The last Congressman I remember was Pat Williams, a Democrat. They also historically elected Democrats as Governor, although I'm not sure who they have now. The state legislature was alsom predominately Democrat.
What is your basis for calling the state "conservatiuve republican, Ray?"
Granted, they do appreciate their gun rights like most western, southern, or agricultural states.
Montana, like many other large, unpopulated states, is a huge beneficiary of Federal highway money (i.e. lots of money spread across a few people). It has more to do with geographic and demographic reality than it does from political ideology, however.
we have conrad burns senator and raticot as gov. both far conservative.
Ray-
If you think Burns and ROSCOE are conservative, I would hate to see your definition of a liberal.
Is it true that most of the rivers in Montana have been closed to fishing due to the fires and water levels?
just some rivers in south montana like the bighole. also alot of area is closed to the public to keep from having more fires. most of the land around hamilton and much of s.e. montana you cant go off the county roads. all the waters are real low and the fish are in the holes in many of the rivers.
I hate everything! I hate everybody! I hate poker! I hate Holdem! I hate you! I hate me! I hate, hate! I hate hating everyone! I hate Holdem again! I hate AK suited! I hate late position! I hate the blinds! I hate money! I hate chips! I hate smokers! I hate floor people! I hate Bellagio's! I hate women poker players! I hate male poker players! I hate poker dealers! I hate poker authors! I hate smart people! I hate stupid people! I hate L.A.! L.A.! L.A.! Ay! I hate Las Vegas! I hate the Sun! I hate the heat! I hate the cold! I hate winning! I hate losing! Tiger Woods is o.k.! But I hate him for being O.K.! I hate baseball! I hate apple pie! I hate pocket Aces! I hate pita bread! I hate thinkin I left something out!
Have a nice day!
Vince (whom I hate)
Vince,
IMO, you have surpassed your lifetime supply of exclamation marks!
John (who is suitably mediocre, so as not to incur Vince's ire)
Vince -- That's 'cuz you're not getting the GOOD pita bread.
Not a good day Vince?
Hmmm........Pita bread, .........pita bread.........,pita bread.......YES!
OK, I get it now; yea pita bread rules (although I call it something else).
Be not offended anyone since man does not live by bread alone (nudge, nudge) and you all know you like it.
/
At first it seemed OK, but it is a bit restricting. If I want to see some of the posts by the big guys (you knw who your are), I have to go to the 30-60 forum. I can't play that level. It's like having to see an intern or resident when you really want to the the attending doctor or the head of the department.
I would prefer a HE section divided into (1) Beginners and (2) Experienced.
I appreciate your input but allow me to explain the increible humor in my post.
You see my post, as you can tell, is under Vince's post. Vince had just enumerated many things for which he has lost affection. I thought asking him at that volatile time what he thought of the new and more cumbersome forum format would be hysterically funny. Picture this,
Vince: I hate this, I hate that, I hate this, I hate that, I hate this , I hate that,
SammyB: Vince, what do you think of the new format?
Vince: I Hate that.
See, funny.
Actually, SAmmy, I saw that and thought it was funny. Had I known you did it for that reason, I would not have placed my post under it. Mea Culpa
/
"See, funny"
I hate funny!
Vince
emit ot emoc emoh ecniV!!!!!!!
wku
Hey Vinny - my list to a tee. Lets find all like minded people - at least 2 of us and drink some grape kool aid.
I hate sundays.
To see the kind of thing Ray-san might encounter in the woods...
Which of the two following options are more likely to occur:
(1)Winning the Californina State Lotto?
(2)Winning at Craps on a daily basis? (Enough to pay for all your living expenses throughout your entire life starting at age 30, modest lifstyle, single and no kids to support.)
The answer is whatever number 3 is.
I'm afraid of living. I'm afraid of dying. I'm afraid of hating. I'm afraid of loving. I'm afraid of television. I'm afraid of heaven. I'm afraid of eating. I'm afraid of not eating. I'm afraid of heights. I'm afraid of winning. I'm afraid of losing. I'm afraid of being stupid. I'm afraid of emotion. I'm afraid of addiction. I'm afraid of John Feeney. Well maybe not John, but I'm afraid of everyone else. I'm afraid of playing poker. I'm afraid of not playing poker. I'm afraid of making mistakes. I'm afraid of being afraid.
I'm afraid there is nothing more to say!
Vince
I notices some of your words might heve been taken from some popular songs of the 60's and 70's. Very good
Take 2 Atavans and tall me in the morning.
that great big grean thing over there
people who cant spell green
Take it easy Vince. Well, you didn't say you were afraid of reading. Go read John Feeney's book. I'm sure it will give you something to say.
...But shucks, I'm just glad you decided you don't fear me, cuz I agree it's everone else who's got scary problems.
As his message is fear - Vinny please get back on the lithiam you are just not the same guy since you stopped taking it.
:-)
Best seat at the table?: #1 - #10
1) Do you play better in any given one? 2) Should you really care?
Besst of it !!
MJ
P.S: 2 or 3 8 or 9
I like to sit where I can see as many "faces" as possible - I don't hate 1 or 10 but it is impossible to see the other with the dealer in the way.
I dislike 4-7 and avoid them.
I like seat 1 or 2 since I am right handed and the seat is protected somewhat. If you have a problem, the dealer's ear is right next to you.
I like seat 1 or 10, so I don't have to listen to a player at least on one side of me. I also like these seats best in LV when I do play there as the smoke is not as bad.(because the dealer doesn't smoke)
Depends who's playing. If I know the players, I would want the fairly skilled players to my left, and the average players to my right.
Bill
Come and listen to my story 'bout a man named Vince.
He got a Sklansky question wrong and hasn't been well since.
Sometimes his posts are full of hate the rest are full of fear
I hope he's feeling better soon he's the best damned poster here,
2+2 that is, SMZ , badger free
people who can't spell can't
...it was too easy...
~DjTj
You are simply to fast today.
So, it's been a few days and I've navigated around here quite a bit and feel the changes will make the Forum less entertaining. I am concentrating on entertainmeant as one of the most importsant qualities of the Forum because I believe that's what makes people come back again and again.
I read ALL the forums here. I have little to contribute as it is, but even less where tournaments, stock market and other poker games are concerned. Sports betting also holds no interest for me but other gambling games include blackjack so I sometimes find a reason to post to that forum.
It's not so much for me to navigate all the forums and read all the threads, I do it while I'm playing poker online. But, it might take too much time for guys like Rick Nebiolo and Louie Landale to read small stakes, med stakes, high stakes, and the general forums. I love it when Rick, during a bought with insomnia gets into the discussion. He writes well, makes his point and asks the same questions I need answered. But he's always running. He just doesn't have the time to scan all the forums and make contributions,so some otherwise Nebiolic threads might go unnebioloed.
Louie is funny as hell, but will he take the time to spot a target for his wit on small stakes. Incredible sarcastic opportunities might go unnoticed because he sticks to 30-60.
And if you're willing to pay badger 10 cents you gotta give Jim at least 1.87 a day to sift through the labyrinth you've created. I realize he might be retired but give the guy a break.
My feeling is it takes longer to swith forums than to scroll through threads that have no interest to you. If time is money and money is the whole idea of playing poker than time is the whole idea of playing poker and you guys are squandering just about 1/2 bb/hr in wasted time. Does this constitute a mathematical catastrophe, no, but it's close.
x
Will be in Toronto in mid-October. Any places to play poker, and if so, any advice?
carry canadian money and say "eh" alot at the end of your sentences and you will be fine.
there are some clubs that play poker in toronto but im out of the loop so you need some other poster to help on where to go.
don't forget about the gloves and fur coats because we live in igloos 12 months a year
You have any idea how tough it is to install security cameras in an igloo? Or to build one big enough to fit a couple of poker tables?
Log cabins all the way...
Just remember... Say "Abowt" not "A boot"... and if you see the easterners they like to change "sure" to "Shore" alot of the time... And if you claim to live beside Wayne Gretzky, we'll all want YOUR autograph...
I expect to try Wayne's reatsurant on the lake
Don't forget the snowshoes.
Ken
That was VERY helpful. Isn't the US dollar worth 10 Canadian dollars?
On Thursday night, the 17th, at 6:32 my wife gave birth to a beautiful baby girl. 7 lbs., 10 ozs., and 20 ins. long. Mom and baby are doing great. I have never had such an intense rush in my life as when that baby was born. Wow!
To catch a peek: check out www.stmarysmadison.com; go to the Special Delivery Babies and click on Emma Katherine, born 8/17/00.
Jon I.
P.S. At what age does a child first develop the cognitive ability to learn poker?
Congrats Jon.
I waited until my daughter was 21 to teach her something. I was in the delivery room for both my kids and it was the greatest moment of my life.
Like flopping quads.
All the best.
Nice, and congrats!!
BTW, I'm a new grandfather (for the first time). My granddaughter was born 8/8/00.
I also got pictures on my poker website.... www.geocities.com/jd8336
JohnnyD
Hope your daughter is doing well.
Mike
Congrats Jon,
I have been through that process 3 times myself. First time is the hardest...hehe
At what age does a child first develop the cognitive ability to learn poker?
My 7 year old is one heck of a card player(Loose /Agressive). But she has a bad habit, she loves to hit inside str8's :-) (dad is working on that part with her)
Best to you and your family !!
MJ
PS: The next six months are not so fun ...Hang in there.
"At what age does a child first develop the cognitive ability to learn poker?" I don't know the answer to this question but I do know I don't wanna play heads up with this guy: cjta.net/special/rabbit 4.htm
Congrats and join the club. My wife and I had our first on July 29, 2000.
BTW, who is the nutbar that coined the phrase "I slept like a baby"? What a nonsensical simile that is....seriously, it has been a lot of fun despite the raccoon eyes that my wife and I have been sporting of late.
skp,
Congrats to you, too. Hope all is well.
My baby is only 5 days old now, but I have never been so grateful to grab 3 hours of sleep in a row.
I must note, however, that pulling all nighters in law school is not half as fun as pulling all nighters with one's new baby. :)
Jon I.
Errol Morris's new film, Dr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Frank A. Leuchter, Jr., is one of his best yet, and it is also one of the best of 2000. Morris's subject is Frank Leuchter, inveterate coffee drinker and smoker (forty cups and six packs) and the author of The Leuchter Report, which was used by Ernst Zundel as "expert testimony" during his trial for publishing false history by the Canadian authorities.
Morris's film uses hypnotic images--the opening shots call to mind James Whale's The Bride of Frankenstein--home movies, overexposed film stock, slow motion, and combines these with interviews and recreations to probe Leuchter's fascination with both humane methods of execution and Holocaust revisionism. The first half of the film details Leuchter's attempts to design humane and safe execution devices, electric chairs, lethal injection machines, scaffolds, and gas chambers. Leuchter says that his "expertise" in designing electric chairs led to other jobs because prison officials mistakingly assumed one kind of knowledge led to another. Since he could design an electric chair, he could design a lethal injection machine. Leuchter admits it does not follow.
However, when Leuchter is recruited by Zundel to prove the gas chambers at Auschwitz couldn't have been used to kill human beings, he apparently forgets he has very little knowledge of gas chambers, science, engineering, or historical research. So, Leuchter and his camera crew head to Auschwitz for some clandestine research which later becomes the infamous Leuchter Report.
Morris assiduously avoids confrontation during his interviews and lets his subjects talk; we are left to judge rather than told how to judge. After watching the movie, I still don't know how to judge Leuchter. Certainly, he's not evil like Zundel. Complicit, perhaps? A pawn? A troubled man hungering for attention? Whatever, it's a great film on many levels, and miles ahead of anything I've seen in the past year or two.
Sounds interesting. When was it released? Where?
Just picked it up on video--at Blockbuster--the other night; I never saw it in its theater release--if it even had one around here.
Thanks. I'll look for it the next time I'm at Blockbuster.
I haven't seen Dr. Death... yet, but these should be up your alley if you can find them:
Dancing Outlaw (& Dancing Outlaw II: Jesco Goes To Hollywood) West Virginia PBS program about tap dancer, elvis impersonator, butane sniffer, and hero, Jesco White
Hands on a Hard Body 23 hopefulls gather in a Texas car dealer parking lot, put their hands on a pickup truck, and the last one left standing wins the truck. "Its who can maintian their sanity the longest"
Paradise Lost (& Paradise Lost II) IMPORTANT film about a contriversial murder trial in Arkansas. www.wm3.org
Bret the Hitman Hart: Wrestling With Shadows You don't need to be into wrestling to appreciate this humorous and sad bio & expose from National Film Board of Canada
Alright... enough for now. I turned my computer on to read about poker!!
Hands on a Hard Body 23 hopefulls gather in a Texas car dealer parking lot...
Loved this one.
Paradise Lost (& Paradise Lost II) IMPORTANT film about a contriversial murder trial in Arkansas. www.wm3.org
Great flick. Gut wrenching to watch.
When PokerSpot.com opened, they had a promotion giving $2000 cash to the first 10 players to play 200 hours. When I dropped out around 75 hours, I recommended Hands on a Hardbody to all the other hopefulls. (along with They Shoot Horses, Don't They)
B$
Disregard this message, it's just a test.
John,
Thanks for the review. Will look for the movie. I have one for you. "Hurricane" It is the story of Rubin Carter. It is an excellant humanities study. The following line by Rubin Carter (Denzel Washington) should be all that is needed to convince you to rent it: "Writing is magic!" (My exclamation mark).
Vince
You know, in another thread I said that I didn't think there was a lot of anti-semitism in my little backwoods of Canada here. But now you mention Ernst Zundel, and it all comes flashing back. There is a large group of neo-Nazi sympathizers in some of the smaller towns of Northern Alberta. There was a teacher from Eckville Alberta that was fired for teaching in class that the holocaust never happened and that the Nazis were misunderstood.
It's amazing that I had forgotten all that. It was daily news here for months on end when he went to trial.
Dan,
I read your posts about anti-semitism in Canada before seeing this movie. Zundel, though, if I remember correctly, is a German National living in Canada. He seems to have a fairly minor following, and I was amazed that Canadian courts would prosecute the charge of publishing false history.
John
The teacher in Eckville was Jim Keegstra, and he was teaching this garbage in social studies class in high school. The school board rightly fired him, if for no other reason than he was not following the approved curriculum.
Zundel ran afoul of Canadian hate speech laws, if I recall correctly. As a libertarian, I have some serious issues with any laws limiting speech of any kind. And I'm not sure that they are in the best interests of tolerance anyway. Sometimes the best way to flush out a cockroach is to switch a light on.
I agree with you that curtailing free speech, even hate speech is a mistake. I want my enemies out in the open where I can see them.
This thread will strive to determine which was the greater loss, one bigheaded badger or 100 million dinosaurs?
Last Wednesday evening I hiked to a peak 2800+ feet high which overlooks the San Fernando Valley (roughly 10km. by 10km.) and imagined a spherical asteroid 10km. in diameter plummeting down and impacting the Valley right smack in the middle. If the resulting impact crater were 10 times the diameter of the asteroid, it would extend to Santa Monica. If the impact crater were 20 times the diameter of the asteroid, it would stretch to Santa Barbara. If the impact crater were 100 times the diameter, San Diego would be within the squash zone.
If an asteroid ten times that wide smacked into Kansas , it would take out an unfathomable number of wicked witches and much of the North American continent besides.
Here's another scenario. What if the asteroid alleged to have collided with the Earth at the K-T boundary was part of a debris field. What if the Earth came within 20,000 meters of Big Brother asteroid, one, say, 1/6 the size of the Moon? Would this close encounter have affected the Earth's orbit/tilt?
Why do I think the Earth might have entered into a different orbit?
I can't help wondering why the dinosaurs didn't rebound after the alleged cataclysm. After all, the dinosaurs, if considered as a biological experiment and evaluated in terms of their resilience and longevity. had been stupendously successful. If the crocodilians and small reptiles and amphibians and small mammals survived in sufficient number, why couldn't have the chicken-sized dinosaurs? And after several hundred or a thousand years had passed, why didn't these remnant species begin to reestablish another reign of eminence, evolving into new forms to reoccupy vacant ecolgical niches?
Could it have been that the Earth's climate had been permanently altered by the impact or a concomitant close encounter?
In a sense, the whole discussion about whether the dinosaurs were warm-blooded might be irrelevant. If the ambient air temperature never varied more than 20 or 30 degrees throughout the Mesozoic over the entire range inhabited by dinosaurs, then biological mechanisms to regulate body temperature are more of a liability than not. Could a behemoth like Brachiosaurus have withstood severe seasonal changes? Fossils of large dinosaurs have been found in what is now tundra. Is this because of continental drift or because there were only mild seasonal variations over most of this planet? If the latter, could this have been because the Earth was more upright?
The Earth's magnetic polarity has flipflopped many times. Have the Earth's orbit and tilt remained constant over time?
Now, you want this asteroid to not hit the earth. For this to be the case, it would have to be moving very fast. Specifically, the force of gravity must not be enough to act as a centripetal force:
Now, we want to find out how much energy such an object would impart, travelling at 140 km/s on a path tangent at a distance of 20km. Hmm...this has a few too many free parameters - well, lets say it hangs that close for a while - perhaps even orbits the earth for a while. Why don't we calculate the energy in one orbit of this object at 20km...
This is pretty much an upper bound for the energy this asteroid could impart - if it really just did an orbit, you could imagine that it wouldn't really impart any significat lateral motion. Anyhow, this is only 1% of the earth's kinetic energy, which could do something, but nothing significant.
This is all just throwing numbers around and I suppose I didn't finda good way to approach this problem...However, you could of course imagine some sort of scenario that would actually move the earth, but maybe my numbers show that its pretty unlikely.
Anyways, the asteroid did cause major climate changes. It sent massive clouds of dust into the air that blocked out the sun for years. Plants that the highly specialized dinosaurs depended on probably died out. The entire ecological niche of the dinosaur disappeared.
And to answer your last question, the Earth's tilt and orbit have changed over time and are still changing. The spin of the earth, and you can find analogs for them in a spinning top. When a top starts spinning, it is fast and spins upright. As it slows down, it starts to precess - its axis starts spinning in a cone shape. The tilt gets greater and greater until it finally stops spinning. This is what the earth is doing also. It started out mostly upright and spinning faster than it is today. In a 50,000 year cycle, the axis spins around once. Depending on the tilt direction in relation to the closest and furthest approaches to the sun, the severity of the seasons changes. The ice ages are actually closely related to this cycle.
Anyhow, this post is already too long...if you're really interested in this stuff there's plenty of literature out there - and probably internet forums devoted to the subject. Stop bugging us poker players!
~DjTj
As mentioned, the Earth's axis will move over a long period of time due to precession. But it can't make any sudden moves, due to conservation of angular momentum. Some hack pop science theorists have speculated that the Earth 'swapped poles', apparently equating the flipping of the magnetic field with an actual physical rotation of the Earth. There was a popular theory a few years ago that Atlantis was actually under the South Pole, and that it used be tropical but the crust of the earth shifted or the whole earth tilted and put it where it rests today.
The problem with that is that the energy required to translate the Earth across its axis would pretty much heat it up into a molten ball of slag. Since my desk isn't made out of molten slag, it didn't happen.
You're alluding, I believe, to the theory entertained (note my choice of words) by Graham Hancock in Fingerprints of the Gods and first broached in the 1950s.
Actually the entire planet isn't supposed to have flipped upside down (in the version I'm familiar with); rather what's under discussion is a sudden shifting of the earth's crust (oh I see you mention that as well). Imagine an orange with rind still intact but detached; the rind can rotate independently of the orangeflesh. My understainding is that Einstein viewed this idea as at least plausible. Was Einstein a hack scientist?
I remind you that the whole notion of plate tectonics was dismissed as absurd by mainstream geologists in the 1920s. I submit that the phenomenon of black holes would have occasioned some guffaws back in the old days as well.
My mentioning the multiple reverses of the Earth's magnetic polarity was merely a reminder that a fundamental physical characteristic of the planet we inhabit has changed drastically (and relatively suddenly) from time to time.
Note that in my original thread I tossed out the possibility that a slight nudge was imparted to the Earth and that over time the effect became gradually accentuated. Note also that I acknowledged the long odds against this idea bearing up under impartial scrutiny.
What DjTj (prototype for R2D2?) and you seem to be affirming is that the accentuation of the Earth's tilt did in fact occur only more gradually and without outside intervention and that the Earth's glaciation cycle is dependent upon both the precession (wobble) and tilt of the Earth's axis. (As an aside, how do you think the ancient Maya learned about the precession?)
A) What would happen if an asteroid the size of the Moon rammed into the Earth? B) Now halve the size (mass) of this projectile and repeat the thought experiment. C) repeat B repeatedly until mass is not less than 3km.
Come to think of it, the newly "transcendent" mammals did later evolve into megasized species. Is this an ecological echo of the dinosaur era?
The shifting crust idea is the least of the problems with Hancock's goofy theories. He is exhibit 'A' for pop science 'theorists' who sound convincing because of good showmanship but ultimately have very little to substantiate their claims.
I'm not aware that Einstein thought it was possible that the crust could suddenly shift. If he did, I'd guess that he was talking about a much more subtle or long-term event. Hancock's notion that the crust could slip so much that a major tropical continent could wind up 45 degrees across the globe has serious conservation of energy implications. What force acted on it? Where did the energy come from? Where did that energy go?
If an Asteroid the size of the Moon hit the Earth, it would destroy every living thing, blast away our atmosphere, and in general be very bad. Lesser impacts would have lesser effects. But anything powerful enough to knock the Earth out of its orbit or cause it to tilt rapidly would destroy everything.
Remember Erich Von Daniken, and "Chariots of the Gods"? His theory required that Jupiter spit out a blob that became Venus. Calculations of the energy required to move a mass the size of Venus into a new orbit from Jupiter's orbit showed that it would have created a molten ball.
Proponents of a novel idea might be 90% wrong in the particulars and still be moving in a useful direction or arrive at an erroneous conclusion but still make astute observations. The tendency is to assign some dismissive label like goofy or irresponsible or fanciful, give oneself a congratulatory pat on the back, and call it a day.
I'd like to hear some other substantive criticisms of Hancock's theory. (I think the shift he posits is less than 45 degrees and from a temperate region but it's been awhile since I read his book). You don't see a correspondence between the configuration of the pyramds and the stars constiuting the belt of the constellation Orion? Or find the engineering feats of Ancient Egypt and Mesoamerica extraordinary? And the gigantic figures of Nazca, too large to be identifiable from the ground, these don't engage your curiosity?
I have to get some shuteye: more manana maybe.
Mark Harris
Mark Harris wrote: > You don't see a correspondence between the > configuration of the pyramds and the stars > constiuting the belt of the constellation Orion?
Yes, so what? There are thousands of stars in the sky. When you look at that many, it seems rather likely that the configuration of the pyramids will correspond pretty well to at least one group of those stars.
> Or find the engineering feats of Ancient Egypt and > Mesoamerica extraordinary?
Yes, but again, so what? Engineers have shown that all of these feats were achievable with the technology known to have existed at those times. Lots of labor, very hard and expensive, but quite doable.
> And the gigantic figures of Nazca, too large to be > identifiable from the ground, these don't engage your > curiosity?
Yes, but the question is why would they do it, not how. The infamous cases of patterns being found in farmer's fields that consist of complex patterns of circles and what are also not clearly visible from the ground, only from the air. Yet, I saw a show on TV where a team of 3 men, with tools consisting of boards of wood and ropes, were able to create one of these patterns in a period of 6 (I forget, but it was between 4-8) hours. The fact that ancient people's did some things for reasons we don't understand is more of a sociological curiosity than anything else, IMO.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
The TV show Nova has demonstrated how the pyramids were built by actually building one, albeit on a much smaller scale. Also, it has shown how the statues were erected on Easter Island (someone finally had the bright idea to ask the island's natives how the feat was accomplished). Again, the real mystery lies not in the "how" but in the "why," which we really have trouble fathoming.
Oh, where to begin... First, Hancock DIDN'T find a correlation between the stars and the pyramids, until he went back 12,500 years. The problem is, the Egyptian Civilization didn't exist 12,500 years ago. Therefore, he suggests that there was another, earlier civilization we don't know about.
The problem with this is simple: We have absolutely no evidence of such a civilization. So Hancock invents evidence by 'proving' that the Sphynx is 12,500 years old. To do this he references the work of a Geologist named Shoch, who suggested that the Sphynx is older than previously supposed because its erosion patterns suggest water runoff, and the area around the Sphynx has been dry for thousands of years.
Two problems with this: First, there are other ways that the Sphynx could erode that way. Salt Exfoliation will leave erosion patterns identical to what we see on the Sphynx. Second, Shoch dates the Sphynx to 8000 years ago instead of 4500. Hancock glosses over that little fact and moves the Sphynx back to 12,500 years ago, just so his astronomy matches up. This is extremely bad science.
Once having established this connection by fudging the numbers, Hancock proceeds around the world to find verifying evidence. He does this by using tried-and-true numerology methods - he goes data mining. Count the number of steps in a pyramid. The number's irrelevant. Oh well. How about the number of steps divided by its angle? Nope. Hmmn.... Hey, if you take THAT number and add the number of steps between the pyramid and a temple, you get the same number as the total volume of the great pyramid! Look, a correlation!
If you sift through enough data, you will ALWAYS find correlations. Hancock's theories fail one big scientific test - they don't predict anything. If he had figured out that, based on the geometry of Orion there must be an undiscovered relic at location X, and a subsequent dig unearthed it, THEN he have corroboration. Playing fast and loose with numbers by examining data and then trying to build theories to make it all fit together is standard pop science mumbo-jumbo.
And that's just for starters.
If the sphinx is 8000 years old, that's still several thousand years before the technological knowhow necessary to carve it had developed, according to standard time charts of Ancient Egyptian History.
Hancock doesn't insist that the pyramids are 12,500 years old, but that a celestial/geological event was being memorialized. Could the great flood legends found in farflung cultures all be harkening back to some global cataclysm which occurred then? If what was responsible for this upheaval is governed by a celestial cycle, then perhaps someone was leaving behind a warning aimed at a future scientifically sophisticated civilization. Sketchily put, this is what Hancock has proposed.
You wrote:
Once having established this connection by fudging the numbers, Hancock proceeds around the world to find verifying evidence. He does this by using tried-and-true numerology methods - he goes data mining. Count the number of steps in a pyramid. The number's irrelevant. Oh well. How about the number of steps divided by its angle? Nope. Hmmn.... Hey, if you take THAT number and add the number of steps between the pyramid and a temple, you get the same number as the total volume of the great pyramid! Look, a correlation!
This is such a gross misstatement of Hancock's case, I find myself heaving a sigh of exasperation. For openers, Hancock doesn't fabricate the superfluous exactitude exuded by the dimensions and alignment of the Great Pyramid. If you indeed think Hancock was playing fast and loose with figures, at least don't mimic his methodology by sloppily flinging mud at an effigy. Many investigators including Dr. Krupp of the Griffith Observatory have found precise correlations between astronomical cycles and the orientation of ancient monuments like Stonehenge.
But I was originally discussing the asteroid collision and its alleged extirpation of the dinosaurs. I happen to value this theory highly. But I hate to see when a "mere" theory gets brandished as indisputable fact, overruling uncorroborating evidence, and thereby becoming immunized against further review. That's what happened with the correlation between HIV and AIDS. (Instances of AIDS sans HIV have been stealthily classified as another disease because they don't fit the template.) If the global climate was not altered permanently by this collision, then why didn't vegetative patterns which existed before the collision return? There are still plenty of conifers around. I'm about to read Horner's most recent book about dinosaurs (if I can excavate the blasted thing). I'm hoping he addresses the extinction issue with far more insight that I can at present supply.
It's a big leap between admitting that the ancients attached importance to celestial objects, and a worldwide ancient civilization that vanished without a trace.
Shoch's work was grossly mischaracterized by Hancock in the first place. And Shoch's original work is still highly controversial. And Shoch himself doesn't agree with Hancock's dates.
The thing is this: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. We have a worldwide body of scientific and historical evidence that the world developed in a certain way. Along comes a guy who says we got it all wrong. He'd better be able to make his case. Hancock has been frantically trying to do this for a long time. And he's had to backpedal on a lot of claims after being debunked.
For example, he originally claimed that the great pyramid at Giza dated to the same era as the Sphynx. When Zahi Hawass, the curator in Egypt, claimed that he was wrong simply because we have graffiti on the stones that date to the 4th dynasty, the 'accepted' date of the pyramid and Sphynx. Hancock's answer was that the graffiti was a forgery, or written there in the 4th dynasty, thousands of years after the pyramid was built.
Hawass then gave Hancock unrestricted access to some interior chambers, where you could clearly see that the graffiti continued in between the rocks, and in places was visible through very small cracks between stones. There was no way that graffiti could have been written after the pyramid was built. Hancock finally succumbed to the inevitable, and conveniently changed his theory to fit.
Another problem for Hancock: Carbon-14 dating of all kinds of relics around the Sphynx, Angkor Wat, and other supposed ancient sites shows dates similar to currently accepted dates. Hancock responded by dismissing carbon 14 dating. His point is that stone can't be carbon-14 dated, because it's not organic. And that's true, but misleading - the dating is done on bits of cloth found stuck between stones, wooden construction implements, etc. And they match the accepted dates, not Hancock's inflated ones.
I saw him on a show recently where he exhibited a 'proof' that the great Pyramid was built by an advanced civilization. His 'proof' was that a large stone sarcophagus was 3 units wide, 4 units long, and had a diagonal length of 5 units. He claimed that this was proof of advanced trigonometry, since it was unknown at the time that a width of 3 units and a length of 4 would result in a diagonal of 5. HUH? Who cares? Since it is in fact true, it doesn't presuppose any knowledge. If a monkey lays down two sticks 3 units and 4 units long at right angles, the hypotenuse will be 5 units long every time.
This is the kind of stuff pop science gurus pull all the time. Throw out some scientific-sounding stuff that is true but meaningless, or of unknown truth but unprovable. Pile it up high and deep until it sounds like a convincing body of work. Cross enough discplinary lines that there are no single experts who can refute all of it. The geologists think the geological evidence is poor, but they're really impressed with the astronomy. The astronomers laugh at the astronomy, but think the historical correlations are pretty impressive. The historians laugh at the historical evidence, but...
So it goes. Hancock has one or two original ideas that may have some merit. I think the Orion connection is considered seriously by Egyptologists, for example.
But he's wrapped it around so much garbage that it's hard to take any of it seriously.
You wrote:
We have a worldwide body of scientific and historical evidence that the world developed in a certain way.
Well, it took Robert Bakker's Dinosaur Heresies to get us to reevaluate dinosaur behavior. Would you prefer he hadn't rocked the boat? I mean progress doesn't come without a few ruffled feathers and the pursuit of more than a few false leads. If Hancock has been chasing will o' the wisps, history will afford his ideas a proper burial as it did Velikovsky's. In the mean time, I found Fingerprints intriguing and provocative. The book not to be missed by any serious would-be puzzle-solver, however, is Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea.
What rankles me is slipshod medical research and all those brainwashed physicians who can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
I'm all for stirring the pot. And scientists are all for it too, when it's defended well. Look at how quickly the asteroid extinction theory became accepted by paleontologists - that's about as 'far out there' as you can get. But the theory passed a crucial test - it predicted something. According to the theory, there should have been enhanced levels of Iridium at the KT boundary due to the asteroid strike. So a team went around the world sampling soil at the KT boundary and found... enhanced levels of Iridium. The theory may yet be wrong, but now the burden of proof is on others to explain alternate mechanisms for a worldwide band of Iridium. This is how the give-and-take of science works.
Hancock's work has never predicted anything. But more to the point, it's just incredibly lousy scholarship. The whole thing started with Bauval's Orion theory. But to make it work, there had to be a civilization 12,500 years ago. There's no evidence for it. So they MANUFACTURED evidence for it, by taking a geological theory and stretching it beyond all recognition. Once they established that 'link', they started playing numerology games to build up more 'evidence'. Along the way they've even picked up garbage like Edgar Cayce's mystical revelations about the Sphynx.
Let me give you another example of how Hancock twists science - in 'Fingerprints of the Gods' he makes all kinds of claims about Atlantis being under the Antarctic ice cap. He NEEDS for this to be true, because it allows him to answer the critics who ask, "If there was a great civilization 12,500 years ago, where are the relics?" His answer is that they are under a mile or two of ice. This is convenient because it's not falsifiable - we have no way of actually checking.
So, now that he's pre-defined his conclusion, he goes looking for theories that can support it. Along comes the continental slide theory, which says that it's possible that an ice sheet got so heavy that it caused a shift that put a tropical area (Atlantis) under the South Pole. Hancock provides all kinds of great scientific buzzwords and references to published works that make this sound like it's highly plausible. He cites the finding of fossilized trees, etc. That show Antartica was once much warmer. What he DOESN'T say is that none of the authors of those works believe this could have happened any time in the last 100,000 years, and Hancock needs it to have happened about 12,000 years ago. In fact, the theorists proposing this generally suggest it could have happened something like 100 million years ago, which makes it totally useless for Hancock's needs.
Then we have the evidence from ice cores. We've drilled thousands of ice cores in Antarctica. We can date some of these cores back at least 70,000 years, so we know with CERTAINTY that there has been an ice sheet on Antarctica for at least 70,000 years. Case closed. But Hancock didn't report that, did he? He had to have known about it, because it's common knowledge to anyone who puts even the remotest amount of work into studying the literature on Antarctica.
This is how he picks and chooses his evidence to make his claims sound plausible.
Here are some links you might want to look at:
First, a skeptical look at 'Fingerprints of the Gods' and other CryptoArchaology:
http://www.intersurf.com/~heinrich/wildside.html
Next, THIS page was written by Bauval and Hancock, and I think their own words do more damage than the skeptics can. This is an example of how they take a news story that everyone is interested in, make all kinds of 'logical connections' to their own work, and use it to gain publicity:
The secret chambers beneath the Sphinx at Giza could hold the key to a link with Mars.
These guys instantly aligned themselves with clowns like Richard Hoagland, and started making wild claims based on nothing more than a very low-resolution photo. Stuff like this should destroy any credibility they might still have.
The link below gives some good information about Ice core sampling. It turns out we've already sampled ice from 160,000 years ago:
This should put the final nail in the coffin of Hancock's 'Atlantis' theory. But most importantly, this information was widely available at the time Hancock wrote the book. The evidence is incontrovertible. It is impossible that Antarctica was warm at any point during the age of man. And Graham Hancock knows it The scientific literature on Antarctica is full of scholarly papers on ice core analysis. But it doesn't fit his theory. A real scientist would have to explain away conflicting evidence. Hancock doesn't, because his books aren't peer reviewed. So he just ignores it, and a credulous public buys his books, reads them, and thinks they are scientific truth. The experts know better, but consider his stuff to be so stupid that they don't even bother commenting on it. Only Carl Sagan and a few other skeptics took up the challenge of counteracting these loons in the public eye, but people don't listen because they'd rather believe that a wonderful civilization, perhaps descended from Martians, built this stuff. The alternatives are just too boring to care about.
"The Earth's magnetic polarity has flipflopped many times. Have the Earth's orbit and tilt remained constant over time?"
Mark Harris,
This is a very interesting question? The world on tilt! Wow, dat's heavy. I remember the first time I met a dianosaur in person. It was during the meziopickle period you mention in your post. Yes a metro had just smacked into what would later become Long Island after those stupid Indians sold the place for aout 24 bucks. God what a bunch of numbskulls. Donald Trump really sucked them in. Funny though, what goes aroound comes around. Now the Indians are a thorn in Trumps Gambling behind.
The dinkosaurus was the meanest critter you ever saw. He had a nose the length of a football field and his shwantz was astroidically big. He was the favorite game of the meziopalenthalic man. Better known as mezza mezz. Mezza mezz loved hunting the dinko and usd to have regular Sunday dinko rib barbecues in the astroid craters surrounding long island. God those were the days.
Yup, I still remember that day that the earth went on tilt and really screwed up our paradise. It was the day that all the dinosaurs committed suicide. Yeah they all jumped into the colorado river which was the long island river in those days but later moved to colorado. That's why the bones of dinosaurs are found strewn throughout North America. The river ran through it. Anyway that was the last day that the earth was allowed to play poker with Badger and it hasn't gone on tilt since. Pretty sad story, huh?
Vince.
Once abound a teem a goldentoed acekicker yclept Badger rallied from crest to stumble in the vast domain Exraise uberminded by unfuzzy pokermeisters Essky, Madtooth, and Zeal. He cheaply sought renown as a thwarter and flavored a diet of cinematic paradisos.
One daze, Badger pokered his ungreen thumb in his ungreen I and yellowbellowed. The Very Mountains shuddered and chasmed. The Moon howled. Jupiter shrouded, Venus choked, Mars blushed. And the River rained suet.
Dinkosaurs came from fur and hide to calmmiserate the Goldtoe but he rolled them all to get a life. Poor poor dinks, they couldn't coz they be all exdinked.
And Badgerboy, he's repealed for long until the clues come loose.
The And.
Harris, Mark,
How True! How true! And don't forget that Bill Cosby asked why is there air long before Badger pissed them guys off. I really enjoyed reading your account of all things small and big. You are a true genius. Unlike David who just thinks he knows one. Yes dinko's would be proud to grace your grill. I bet if you were to have a dinkosaurs cook out, Elvis would show up with BH as his date and we'd have a Grand O'l Opry time. Just like when we were kids. Gosh I love that story.
Vince.
Post deleted at author's request.
Badger is a compulsive poster. He'll be back.
Why'd he leave?
Check out the "Hasta La Vista, Baby" thread started by Badger in the Other Topics forum on Wednesday, Aug.16,2000 and the "Super Mario" thread started by "ex-newbie" on Thursday, Aug.10 at the Tournaments forum. You may find hints as to why Badger left from these threads.
Considering making a journey north to the frozen wasteland of Minnesota. I hear there's some good action at Canterbury Park. Anyone have any insight to share?
Does anyone know if there are any plans to eventually broadcast coverage of the 2000 WSOP anywhere on TV?
I just clicked on my first banner ad ever. Since it's election season, I just couldn't resist voting for the "cutest couple" on the Alloy Teen webzine.
I hope Mason, David, and Ray get a few cents off my click. Alloy needs some help in its direct marketing department.
p.s. I voted for Sarah Michelle Gellar and Freddie Prinze, Junior.
hey i'm on the strip doing e-mail. isn't that something.
vince
where specifically?
One block south of Bellagio's on the same side of the street. A little trinket place. Don't know the name. $1 - 6 minutes Vince
Or get stuck in an elevator with or introduce to your sister ...
10. darunk
9. fishhead
8. batface
7. dogsbreath
6. booger
5. crabs
4. cracksmoker
3. The Sucker
2. Dr. Feelgood
1. fartknocker
why?
Because of their names. It's funny Ha Ha. I've actualy played against some of them.
CV
What handles do they use on Paradise?
According to the Gaming today,the former card room Mgr.was arrested by Gaming Control agents for stealing Tournament entry fees.Estimates are the amount was in the 200,000 neighborhood.I've heard they took him out in handcuffs.Card Player Magazine,in typical journalistic fact finding style congratulated the person who was promoted to take his place with no mention of the scandal.It will be interesting to see how Poker Digest handles this,given their recent editorial about printing all the facts about poker including topics that they formely would'nt touch.
have not heard about this...my brother in law works there, next time I talk to him I'll ask him about it.
I actually think the scandal is bigger than we will ever know. I also suspect that the scandal has something to do with Mike Sexton becoming a consultant for the Tournament of Champions (leaving his current position) and Linda Johnson stepping down as publisher of CARD PLAYER sooner than anyone expected.
I hope the full story comes out. I'd like to see poker magazines take an active role getting the truth to players.
"I'd like to see poker magazines take an active role getting the truth to players."
Have you noticed where all the advertising income is coming from, for those magazines? This is a very, very small market, with limited interested parties.
So, generally pointing out faults in management, uniformity of rules, decorum, etc, will continue to be acceptable, as long as it doesn't get into specifics.
Mason- Why on earth would you try to tie this to Mike Sexton or Linda Johnson?
Just trying to stir the soup?
Diane
I am no stranger to scandal. I was accused (falsely) of doing dirty dealings with the Buddhists Monks and the Republicans will make a big issue of this in the fall. I am not guilty of all charges. I think everyone here knows that.
In the meantime I need all of the votes I can get. The election will be very close and George W. will soon pull out all the stops. I expect to clobber him in the debates but as you very well know running for President is one gigantic poker game where both sides will push in all of their chips.
Think of all the good things Bill Clinton and I have done for poker and cast your vote for me on September 28th.
I don't think Mason has anything to gain by "stirring the soup". But I would like to know more about his theory. I value his opinions as he has been a Vegas insider for a long time.
Brett
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by being a Vegas insider, but I'm definitely not an insider concerning the Orleans Scandal. While I don't believe that Mike Sexton or Linda Johnson did any thing worng, I do believe that they made decisions that hurt poker in the long run.
Specifically, it is my opinion that the best way to improve poker is to put emphasis on improved daily operations of cardrooms. But what these people have done is put emphasis on more and more tournaments. This can easily be seen by all the tournament columns that are now present in CARD PLAYER magazine.
Now don't get me wrong. I do believe that poker tournaments have their place. I just feel that they have gotten out of balance recently, and the problems that have apparently occured at the Orleans may be a result of this.
I suspect that I am not the only one who thinks this way. Barry Shulman in a recent column in CARD PLAYER (if my memory is correct) asked the question, "How good are poker tournaments for poker?" Now that wasn't his exact language, but it seems to me that he may be wrestling with this same idea. That is, when is too much of a good thing bad, and are all the tournaments and the emphasis on tournaments damaging poker in the long run?
Again to be a little more specific, I can think of many major tournaments that are no longer with us. Some of these were held at casinos that didn't even have a poker room at the time. (Yes, I'm aware that the WSOP was held at Binion's Horseshoe for many years when they did not have a poker room.)
Another trend, which I find disturbing, is the independent contractor who comes into a casino and holds a poker tournament. I believe that this was first started by Amarillo Slim many years ago with his tournament in Tahoe. But there is a difference with today's independent contractors. It is that (I believe) Slim got many more concessions out of the casino than today's contractors do. For example, I have always understood he had a piece of the drop.
This means that today's promoters have to come up with other revenue sources to be profitable. Thus we see increased juice, less buffet comps, etc.
So in answer to Diane's question, I think that there are some issues here that need to be addressed and debated. I'm not sure exactly what is best for the long term good of poker. As for Mike Sexton and Linda Johnson, I believe that neither of them did anything wrong, and furthermore I believe that their intentions were good. I also believe that they made mistakes which will have repercussions for years to come.
Mason wrote: >>While I don't believe that Mike Sexton or Linda Johnson did any thing worng, I do believe that they made decisions that hurt poker in the long run.<<
What decisions were those and why. I'm not necessarily disagreeing but I would like to know.
>>Now don't get me wrong. I do believe that poker tournaments have their place. I just feel that they have gotten out of balance recently, and the problems that have apparently occured at the Orleans may be a result of this.<<
Again I'm not disputing what you're saying but what do you mean by "out of balance." Although I do believe that poker tournaments provide opportunities for good players to make a lot of money, I'm not saying that things are perfect either.
>>Another trend, which I find disturbing, is the independent contractor who comes into a casino and holds a poker tournament. I believe that this was first started by Amarillo Slim many years ago with his tournament in Tahoe. But there is a difference with today's independent contractors. It is that (I believe) Slim got many more concessions out of the casino than today's contractors do. For example, I have always understood he had a piece of the drop.<<
Why is this disturbing? I can only surmise that you feel that this encourages corruption involving tournament officials, contractors, and players. If you do feel this way how does this corruption manifest itself?
>>So in answer to Diane's question, I think that there are some issues here that need to be addressed and debated. I'm not sure exactly what is best for the long term good of poker. As for Mike Sexton and Linda Johnson, I believe that neither of them did anything wrong, and furthermore I believe that their intentions were good. I also believe that they made mistakes which will have repercussions for years to come.<<
What do you feel are the issues as I for one am not clear on what they are. What mistakes did Mike and Linda make? Again I'm not disagreeing with you but I think it would serve players well to know what these mistakes were.
So is Poker Digest going to cover the Orleans scandal?
- Andrew
Andrew:
I hope they do. However, I need to point out that I'm not part of the ownership or management of POKER DIGEST. I do not have any input into their editorial content or what issues they address.
Mason- Can't you use your column in PD to write what you want? Cover the Orleans scandal there if you want.
But LEAVE LINDA AND MIKE OUT OF IT.
Sorry for shouting, but those two have done more to legitimatize poker and make it more socially acceptable for new players to enter the game than anyone else associated with the game.
You and David have taught us. But Mike and Linda made it seem perfectly ok for all the new players to dip their toes in the water. We owe them a tremendous debt of gratitude.
Your original post was scandalous in trying to tie their names to the Orleans problem. Smacks of sensational headlines like used in the National Inquirer or the rags that talk about alien babies.
Now all you do is backpedal and trump up reasons for why you said what you did.
I am very disappointed in how low you stooped here. Apologize, admit their names were used inappropriately linked to Orleans, and drop it.
Diane
Diane:
If in any way some of you mistook my words to mean that Linda and/or Mike had something to do with money being stolen or other inappropriate activities then I do appologize for poor written language. However, I do think that they might be innocent victims of the problems that occurred.
As for legitimizing poker and making it more socially acceptable for new players, well, I have to question that. I believe that tournaments do very little to develop new players. I can't think of any poker player that I know who began his "poker career" in a tournament. I suppose there are a few who perhaps played in a free "press type" tournament that began this way, but I believe that the vast majority of players began their careers in low limit side games. (I do recognize that tournaments are sometimes able to generate publicity that benefits poker. I think that we all agree that the WSOP has been very successful in this area.)
(In fact, I would argue that I have done far more in this area of helping new players become perament players than almost anyone else. For example, one of our publications, the FUNDAMENTALS OF POKER is recognized as the premier beginners book. For years it sold at a retail price of $3.95, and the current version is $5.95. But what you don't know is that between 1993 and 1996 we sold 60,000 copies of it to cardrooms at just slightly above our printing cost. We did this in an effort to help cardrooms develop new players. Unfortunately, the cardrooms seemed to lose interest in the project, and we don't attempt to sell it to them any more.)
Now I do agree that many relatively new players discovered tournaments after some period of time, thought that they were great, and have stayed on as poker players because of them. (I suspect that you may belong to this group since whenever there is a tournament in Las Vegas I know that there is a good chance that you will be here.)
Furthermore, and this is where I am coming from, for poker to survive and grow, there must be an influx of new players, and new players need to be developed mainly by the cardrooms.
So how do the cardrooms develop new players? I believe that one of the important ingredients in accomplishing this is to run their daily operations well. (You may want to look at the paper I wrote with Donna Harris several years ago called "Cardroom Theory -- A Two Way Street." It is reprinted in my book POKER ESSAYS, VOLUME TWO, or I can send you a copy if you send me an appropriate email address or regular address.)
As you know, I play my poker at either The Mirage or The Bellagio. (However lately, all of my poker has been at The Bellagio.) In my opinion, both of these rooms are doing a good job in the area that I am talking about. In addition, The Mirage has daily tournaments, and The Bellagio does not.
Finally, I am not an investigative reporter, and do not have the necessary tools to tackle the Orleans scandal. I'm sure that there are many other people around who could easily do a much better job than I would. I do hope however that either POKER DIGEST or CARD PLAYER will discuss it, but I have nothing to do with their editorial content. This is a decision that the appropriate editors/publishers will have to make.
Finally, I am not an investigative reporter, and do not have the necessary tools to tackle the Orleans scandal.
Then why are you bringing it up here?
- Andrew
Mason-
Linda's contributions through Cardplayer have made it lots more comfortable for people to give casino poker a try.
I do give you and David credit for your published works that educated all of us to the intricacies of the games. My copies of Holdem and Advance Holdem are dog-eared and highlighted in multiple colors.
But you are zoning in on just tournaments as being the claim to fame for Mike and Linda in the poker world. They have done so much more. Don't just associate them with tournaments, they have helped ALL elements of poker.
Linda and CP and her gracious, friendly demeanor at all poker functions she participated in (and there were 1000's of them all over the country)gave poker a friendly warm, welcoming "face".
Mike is the consumate gentleman and puts a polished image on poker in all that he touches, not just the TOC.
One of the best ways cardrooms can encourage and cultivate new players is by prominently displaying CP and PD for new players. They will then learn about the wonderful and gracious people that are part of poker.......like Mike and LInda.
Both of these individuals make you want to be associated with poker and to give it a try despite how intimidating it looks from the rail.
I disagree though about your position that tournaments don't really bring in new first time players. Many times I have encouraged interested, but intimidated new players to try one of the very low buy in tourneys to get a feel for the casino poker game with a limited cost. The $10-15-17 buyin events around the country are great for a new player to try it out. The fixed expense takes some of the fear out of it. They know they can't be fleeced by a savy "pro" by more than their original stake. I can't tell you how many times I have had this conversation with newbies sitting on an airplane or among friends and spouses of friends.
After trying $1-3 stud on my first poker excursion I came back to WI and started playing in $10 buy-in tournaments at a small casino in upper Michigan.That experience only fueled the fire for my enduring love of poker.
Yes, I love tournaments. I probably balance my play 40% tournament and 60% live. I only come to Vegas or Reno or Foxwoods during the tournaments. That's the only time you see me for sure in Vegas, otherwise the daily games at Bellagio/Mirage aren't juciy enough for me to make that plane ride from WI. I would rather play live in Tunica the rest of the year.
You WERE wrong to use Mike and Linda's name in that thread it caused all kinds of misunderstandings. As one of their staunch admirers and a friend with both of them, I was very offended. Your clarification has helped....but you did stir the soup quite a bit with your original post.
Diane
It was very upsetting to read about the Orleans scandal. I can remember when the person in quetion ran the poker room at the Barbary Coast. I enjoyed playing there, the Gold Coast, and the Orleans. Since we do not know the facts we should not assume his guilt. We should however be aware of problems that make a person put themselves in such a position. I hope that he is cleared of any wrong doings and if there is a problem that he is able to get his life together.
I do think this is a far greater issue then the issue of Mike Sexton and Linda Johnson.
From what I understand, David H. has confessed and Gaming is insisting that the Orleans prosecute. He stole $200,000 for Petes sake.
Now this is an appropriate well reasoned response. Contrast that to Badger's insanity.
David- I appreciate the personal compliment.
However, I disagree with your statement regarding "Badger's insanity". Steve Badger and I have a different "style" for responding on issues, but we are definitely in agreement that Mason was way out of line with his post.
The fault lies with Mason spouting off innuendoes regarding a supposed sinister link between Mike, Linda and the Orleans scandal.
Mason owes both Mike and Linda a public apology on this forum and a private one as well. His subsequent messages on this thread so far are just attempts to backpedal and avoid admitting he made a mistake.
Diane
In Today's Las Vegas Review-Journal (August 28th): --
POLICE BLOTTER: The manager of the poker room at The Orleans was recently arrested and charged with embezzlement after more than $200,000 was missing from a recent poker tournament at the Tropicana Avenue hotel-casino.
David William Hricsina, 53, was arrested by Nevada Gaming Control Board agents on Aug. 18, according to the state agency.
Investigators charge that Hricsina embezzled entry fees from The Orleans Open, a 15-day tournament that was held in July.
Mason wrote: >>While I don't believe that Mike Sexton or Linda Johnson did any thing worng, I do believe that they made decisions that hurt poker in the long run.<<
Tom Haley wrote: What decisions were those and why. I'm not necessarily disagreeing but I would like to know.
My answer: It obvious to me that they decided to push poker tournaments in a bigger way than they were ever supported before. I believe that this had the effect of encouraging cardrooms to neglect their day-to-day activities.
Mason wrote: >>Now don't get me wrong. I do believe that poker tournaments have their place. I just feel that they have gotten out of balance recently, and the problems that have apparently occured at the Orleans may be a result of this.<<
Tom Haley wrote: Again I'm not disputing what you're saying but what do you mean by "out of balance." Although I do believe that poker tournaments provide opportunities for good players to make a lot of money, I'm not saying that things are perfect either.
My answer: As I have stated, when the emphasis becomes all poker tournaments, cardrooms begin to neglect their day-to-day activities. Here's one simple example. One of the problems with many tournaments is dealer quality. This is because many dealers have to be hired for a short period of time. Furthermore, much of the supervision is temporary. This leads to further deterioration. Thus instead of an industry that promotes quality in these areas, we the players end up with lower standards that hurt poker in the long run. For example, do you think that a casino that doesn't have a cardroom (or only has a small one) that tries to run a big tournament once a year and will only have these dealers employed for a few weeks is very concerned about dealer technique. I suspect that their main concern is things like filling their rooms, getting the event over with, keeping their expenses at an acceptable level, and adding business to their other games (which do go year round).
>>Another trend, which I find disturbing, is the independent contractor who comes into a casino and holds a poker tournament. I believe that this was first started by Amarillo Slim many years ago with his tournament in Tahoe. But there is a difference with today's independent contractors. It is that (I believe) Slim got many more concessions out of the casino than today's contractors do. For example, I have always understood he had a piece of the drop.<<
Tom wrote: Why is this disturbing? I can only surmise that you feel that this encourages corruption involving tournament officials, contractors, and players. If you do feel this way how does this corruption manifest itself?
My answer: While you raise some good points, my main concern is with the fact that these contractors are forced to take in additional revenues in order to turn a profit. This usually manifests itself in excess juice, but it can also show up in other areas such as less floor supervision. I don't have access to the inside goings on of any tournaments, so I don't think it is appropriate to comment on possible corruption.
>>So in answer to Diane's question, I think that there are some issues here that need to be addressed and debated. I'm not sure exactly what is best for the long term good of poker. As for Mike Sexton and Linda Johnson, I believe that neither of them did anything wrong, and furthermore I believe that their intentions were good. I also believe that they made mistakes which will have repercussions for years to come.<<
Tom wrote: What do you feel are the issues as I for one am not clear on what they are. What mistakes did Mike and Linda make? Again I'm not disagreeing with you but I think it would serve players well to know what these mistakes were.
My answer: Again my answer is the same as above. They have encouraged cardrooms to over emphasize tournaments. I believe that this has caused neglect in their day-to-day operations. The heart and soul of a successful cardroom are their daily games and the development of "regulars" who come to the cardroom daily, start games, and keep them going. Tournaments tend to counter much of this. I don't believe they develop new players, and they have many problems such as deal making, constant staking, etc.
I'll just address the constant staking in a little more detail. I strongly believe that one of the important reasons why poker games remain honest is that the players play independently of each other. This doesn't mean that some of us aren't friends away from the table, but at the table, you should be trying your hardest to win the most from everyone. I feel that some of this independence may be breaking down during tournaments because of all the players who are getting staked.
I have a feeling that all the heated correspondence may have missed a relevant point, namely that while the resignations had nothing at all to do with the theft which apparently occured they most definitely were connected with other non-related problems. It was purely coincidence that everything came out in the same wash.
Now none of your contributors have asked the questions of why the people concerned did actually resign. Of course we had a rather whitewashy editorial, but that probably posed more questions than it answered. It seems to me that the TOC may have had plenty of reasons to be concerned about the direction it was heading towards, which had nothing to do with the Orleans. Poker players should be aware that things are not always as they appear. Remember The Emperor's New Cloak when the little boy said 'The Emperor isn't wearing any clothes'? You never know what's around the corner!!
When I read Card Player awhile back and read that Linda was being replaced by Barry Shulman's son Jeff it made a lot of sense to me since Barry Shulman owns Card Player. It seemed "logical" that since Barry is a fairly new owner of the magazine that he might want to make a change just because he wants to put a person that he chooses there. The magazine talked about going in a "new direction" with Jeff Shulman (who took 7th in the big one this year) so we'll see what happens.
Now that would be a blast. I'd love to get at a final table with DS, Mason, JohnnyD, Badger (if he is still talking to us) Big John (who I'd probably lose a LL bet to) Fossil Man, Vinny (I hope he takes his meds), Padraig and mah. SmoothB would probably bust out early over playing his 7-4o :-)
On the scandal- big whoop - when you have loads of cash and no strong control on it guess what - someone is gonna get sticky fingers. I also understand (without mentioning any names) a lot of world wide travel and personal expenses were written off to the TOC - making it really hard to show a profit.
As an one time auditor I say "follow the money"
This is not your usual bad beat story. This is a bad beat story about a hand that I won. I am only relating it to you all because I'm an ass. Also I have been running pretty bad lately and I wanted to give you an example of my plight. Of course you all can relate to running bad from your own experience base but I wonder if something similar has ever happened to you.
I was playing at Bellagio's2 night ago or mornings depending on your point of refernce. I was stuck abotu $700. In the game was a young local player. I have played with him on numerous occaisions. On each of those occaisions he has bought in for a rack of red ($500). Promptly, within 2 hours, lost the rack and quit. He is "beautiful" to play with. Anway I was really getting beat up. Everything I tried failed. I could not win a hand. Then the following hand developed. "Beautiful" limped in from up front. All folded to me on the Button. I held Kd,Qc. I raised and it went heads up with "beautiful". Beautiful I thought. To make a long story short I made a King High straight flush on the Turn. "Beautiful" made a Jack high straight flush on the turn! In Clubs of course. Wow what a break down $700 and I have the top hand of a double handed straight flush pot. Now you may ask how this could possibly be a bad beat. Well you see what actually happened was that "beautiful" called my $15 flop bet with $10 all in! So I won a whopping $65, minus the rake, with the hand. Yes, I just shrugged my shoudlers, cried a little and played the next hand.
Vince
Hi everyone. I am Leaving Las Vegas on 31 August heading back to Massachusetts. I will be there for a while and will probably visit the Fossilman down at Foxwoods a few times a month. I plan on returning to Vegas sometime during the winter. I play at Bellagio's but my bankroll only allows me to play at the 15-30 level. Well it doesn't allow me I make my own decisions and I decided my BR can only stand that level.
But you see there are a lot higher games there at B'agio. Tonite for instance there was a $1500-3000 game. And there were a bunch of fish playing in it, headed by Doyle Brunson. But just because I din't have a half a mill on me I didn't feel comfortable sitting in. And that just pisses me off. And that's not all. Not only can't I sit in that game with the big whale's I can't even sit in the little whale gfames that David, The Oz, Sklansky frequents. That be 60-120 and 80-160. Now I just bought a tee shirt in Ensenada Mexico that displays my seniments exactly. It says or has written on it because it can't talk:"Will not work for anything". Since that is my lies motto I refuse to go to work or play enough hours of poker to put together a bankroll necessary to play up there where the air is thin. So my only solution is to get, beg, plead for a backer. Now if you want to make a little investment of around a $100k that should be enough for one session of $80-160 the way that I play. (I like to play a lot of hands). For that you can keep ALL of the profits and sit next to me and "sweat" me. I just want to play for the excitement. Of course if you let me have 60% of what I win you may increase your chances of winning. I will also consider multiple backers if necessary. So what tdo you think? Any takers? Zee? Fossil? guys, anyone? Huh?
Not you John Cole. I know that teachers ain't got no money!
Vince
Vince,
I got enough to keep you in toke money. And, please, "Professor of English," if you will; "teacher" is just so, so . . . quotidian! ;-)
John
I'm in for 20K if you can get Oz to give you the other 80K.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Vince, after reading Badger's posts about what a great investment it is to back a player, I decided to do it. I wish I had known you were interested.
After all, why should I play with my own money when I can sit at home while someone else plays?
I am currently backing a poker author, initials GC, and a young guy known as "beautiful". When the profits start rolling in, maybe I'll add you to my stable.
Brett
Vince,
I'd like to back you old buddy, but I got no dough left since I left LV. But, I think you have a money making opportunity here. The Fossilman did say,"I'm in for 20K if you can get Oz to give you the other 80K." Now, all you have to do is make a deal with Oz and you'll have some cash. He did put it in writing (hehehe). If my idea is worth some cash, please pay for my next tourney buy-in.
mah
What exactly do you do up there in Amesbury, Mass anyway. Don't tell me they let you in the games at the St. Jeans club.
He's one of my favorite posters.
John Gierach..."Fishing is a test of character, but it's a test you can take over as many times as you want." Poker is also a challenging test.
JG rocks!! his stories about AK best and himself on the frying pan put me on fishing tilt when I think about the put and take nor cal waters I have to fish. Oh well, i'll tie up a couple dozen gold ribbed hare's ears and do with what i have.
Are you familiar with Putah Creek? I have no idea if this is correct spelling. A friend from the Bay area used to talk about it some 20 yrs. ago. I thought it was a wild trout fishery.
Very familiar with it. I learned to FF there when I was at UC Davis, and I learned to FF because it was there. You could say thatI was introduced to Gierach (and Lyons, Tappley, Wulff, et al) because of Putah Creek.
The Putah trout fishery extends for five miles below Lake Berryessa to the Solano County Diversion Dam. After that it becomes a pretty good (if unknown) warmwater fishery. the creek is heavily planted in the summer months as it is one of the few streams cold enough to support trout year round (bottom draw dam). Unfortunately, the creek also runs about 3X fishable flows during the summer because its main purpose is to supply water to the farmers. The wild trout that your friend is talking about are the holdovers from the plantings as well as their progeny. the trout there could be self sustaining if the creek weren't managed as a put and take water. With trophy regulations, we could see a close to world class fishery IMHO. I've personally caught both browns (all wild, they don't stock browns anymore) and rainbows to 4+lbs there and heard of many that were much more. A few years ago, a guy fishing for catfish in a canal below the cold water section landed a 17lb brown on a clam (some trout get through the diversion dam and the water is cold enought for them for a little ways below). If you're ever in the Bay Area and want to fish a little, look me up. especially in the fall/winter months when the trophy regulations are in place and the flows are dropped to fishable levels.
The state of California adopted some progressive management plans for Hat Creek and the Fall River. Any chance of them extending these to Putah Creek? They should have enough data to change to a wild trout management philosophy.
there is another creek called fordyce near the donner summit by truckee cal. it runs out of fordyce lake which was great fishing. if you hoofed it back in on the creek you got lots of good sized fish. its probably too well known now as that was 25 years ago i fished it alot but it might be worth checking out as in the heat of summer its usually pretty cool up there.
After helping my daughter and son move back to college last Tues. I decided to drive up to Soaring Eagle casino in central Mi. from Terra Haute for a look see and the Wed tournaments - 400 miles but it was worth it. The casino hotel is really 1st class and the card room is super - well run and well comped all meals were free for players playing over 3 hours.
Wed I made $571 in 7 hours playing 4/8 & 6/12 I was on the 4/8 table waiting for the 10/20 seat which never came the 6/12 opened up but I hated the table (personality) I knew the 4/8 was a better game so I moved back. Thurs I played 10 hours and won $3 down to felt 3 times. It could have been a lot worse I had a lot of really bad beats and unusual "luck" Here is an example: I'm in mid position with 66 call one limper. a few others are in behind, flop comes 255 2 (clubs) limper checks I bet and the others fold. Turn is a 6 limper bets I raise I get called I put this guy on a flush draw maybe X5s - river is a 9c - perfect card I hope this guy has a flush he bets I raise he reraises I reraise he reraises - I now put this guy on 9's full so I just call. He turns over quad 5's. "suprise" The players by and large are quite good - lots of older guys and young turks who think (some do) they know the game. I had to switch gears several times as the game changed but it was a good exercise as I like playing with better players - lots of 2+2 thinking involved - which made it easier for me.
I did meet a few 2+2 lurkers and when I introduced myself it was like they had met a an old friend - 2+2 guys always have the same reaction to meeting me it's fun.
I liked it so much I stayed 2 extra days to play in the Fri $120 buy in Hold'em freeze out. As with the hotel and card room the tournaments were very well run - they started on time, table moves were fair and balanced and players were kept informed. In that tournament I had never got the run of the cards and was struggeling most of the way they paid 15 places - 203 buy in. I was mistake free 16th - "bummer" - as Arnold said "I'll be back".
All in all a very pleasant experience in Mt. Pleasant. Good poker great (free) food and nice people.
It's a 4 hour drive from my home but seeing I have to wait 4 hours for a table in Chicago - might as well drive up to a REAL casino.
:-)
Rounder,
It sounds like fun. I'll have to try it sometime.
Rounder--
I played at the Soaring Eagle all last winter, and my feelings on the place aren't nearly as positive as yours.
For one, the 10-20 game is horrible. Very tight, and studded with some very good players. Not an easy game to beat. I made about 22$ an hour there last winter in the 10-20, but that's due largely to the fact that I managed to find a couple very juicy shorthanded games. In the full ring games during the weekday afternoons I doubt I could make that much. The 6-12 was better (I didn't play the 4-8, so I'll take your word for it), but still not nearly as good as the 20-40 games in Chicago or Denver.
Further, I can't stand the way they run that place. If it wasn't too busy when you were there you wouldn't have seen this, but on weekend afternoons they flatly refuse to open more tables, no matter how long the wait lists may be. They may open up another 2-4 O8 table now and then, but never a 6-12 or 10-20 HE table--- even when the wait lists for these games exceeds 30 people. I've seen acquaintances come in at 1 in the afternoon, get on the 10-20 list, and languish at the 2-10 Stud 8 table for 7 or 8 hrs before finally getting a 10-20 seat.
Overall I wouldn't recommend that place to anyone looking to play. But, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. Maybe they've changed things.
Far and away my favorite place to play in the Midwest is Harrah's in Gary, In., followed closely by the Aurora Hollywood. The wait in Gary was awful, but the games there just might be the juiciest anywhere in the country. And the games at the Aurora were equally soft.
S.E. seemed to hbe opening up tables as they got lists long eneough to support them. The 10-20 was hard to get on but from what I saw I wouldn't have been happy their - looked like a rock garden. They did run the tournaments with perfection.
I agree about Aurora - the wait is a long one though - I must get over to Harrah's soon.
You're dead on about the 10-20 being a rock garden. I've played many, many 8 and 10 hr. sessions in that game where the 'pot of the day' was around 250. IMO the best game up there is the 6-12 O8 w/ a 1/2 kill-- lots of action, TONS of pre-flop limping, plenty of bitter arguments on the river--- in other words, everything you'd expect from a table of fishy Omaha players.
Harrah's in Gary is a treat. A lot of the working pros out of S.E. go down there about once a month, just because the games are so good. It's not uncommon to play for 2 or 3 hrs. and have every pot contested at least 6 ways pre-flop-- and that's in the 10-20. The only setback are those ridiculous boarding times, and the wait list can get long. But once you're in a seat, you almost can't bear to leave.
I loved playing at the Aurora, and personally never had much of a wait there. But I know that's one of your old haunts, so I'll defer to you on that one.
Again, glad you had a good time.
Haven't been to Soaring Eagle yet, but it's on my Canterbury trip plan. Thanks for the report. Incidentally, Tunica is only 5 hours from Terre Haute and you may find it to be much more rewarding.
I don't know anything about explorer, or really if this will help. But what is possibly happpening is that for some reason the file that contains your surfing history isn't being closed properly (certainly if you shut down your PC in a non-recommended fashion while your browser was open), then the file to which changes are written would not be closed properly and all your history would be lost. This might not be what you're doing, of course. I'd gather that if the browser was closed for any irregularity without getting a chance to fclose the history file, then you'd lose recent changes. Of course, maybe there's something odd about tpt's way of naming messages or storing cookies, but surfing with lynx in a stateless environment precludes me from telling at the mo.
JG
in netscape its edit --preferences -- then history so many days till they expire. you may find its a blessing in disguise as by not knowing what was read you now need to remember your past actions. helps with reading hands.
I was wrong I thought the best poker scene from a movie was from the Cincinati Kid. I don't believe that anymore. No it's not from "Big Hand for a little lady." Certainly not Rounders. No it is from a movie that almost all of you have seen but probably do not associate with poker. The movie is a classic. It is about a rebel and his fight with authority. In the end he is killed because he can't be broken. It is one of my favorite movies of all time and it's star one of my favorites also.
The scene goes something like this. The game is five card stud. There are a lot of breathers just like in cinci kid. But in this movie the breathers are a lot more vocal and actually participate in the outcome of the hand. Not true to life I know but it is a movie. There are three players in the hand. On fourth street player one has 7,7, two has A,x and three has K,3. Player one bets a cooter (quarter for you not so southern folk). The A,x calls and three says "Kick it a buck" Anyone know the movie yet? Player one calls but with a worried look on his face. Player 2 folds and now it's heads up 7,7 against K,3. The next card is a blank for both players. Player one looks up at one of the breathers and the breather says go ahead and bet you got him beat. So one bets another "cooter". Kick it a buck is the response. Player one looks at the breather again and he tewlls him to call so he does. The last street is a blank for both. The breather played by George Kennedy says you got him beat bet a dollar. So player one bets a dollar. Kick it a buck is the rebels response. Geoge Kennedy now looks away and says to one don't look at me the man obviously has Kings. Throw it away your'e not going to pay a dollar just to see those kings. Player one throws his hand away. Kennedy then picks up three's cards and turns them over and says "see there are the Kings." But the hand revels only King high. Kennedy then says to Luke "You got nothin, you beat him with nothin". Luke, Paul Newman then says. Yeah well sometimes nothin is the best thing you can ahve. The movie "Cool Hand Luke." My vote for the best poker scene of all time. Well at least one of the best.
Vince
I like the scene in "House Of Games", too.
Written by David Mamet, whose father once responded when David told him he was going to play poker: "Are you still using cards?"
So on fourth street, Player one bets open 7's against Kxxx? Can player 3 call if he can't beat 7's? Perhaps, it was some great play to induce a bluff raise but that usually requires a call at the end:)
I know it's only a movie and a very good one at that but you would think that they would consult with Sklansky's dad or somebody before doing any poker scenes.
On that note, same with Rounders, what's up with all those so-called profesionals playing at the Taj and doing nothing to protect their hands. Even novices know to put a chip on their cards.
BTW, like Bill, I too enjoyed the poker scene in House of Games. That Joe Mantagne (sp?) is a beaut in that flick.
" [In] Rounders, what's up with all those so-called profesionals playing at the Taj and doing nothing to protect their hands? Even novices know to put a chip on their cards."
Sorry, I'm drawing a blank here, senile and all. What scene was that?
PS: It's Joe Mantegna. Good actor, great movie, great poker scene (any great poker scene can't be just about poker; it won't be a good movie scene).
Mike and Worm go down to the Taj in AC and meet up with Knish, Josh Mostel, the pretty girl from the Chesterfield. That's the scene where Mike (matt damon) describes all the fish who sit and play.
..I don't recall them "doing nothing to protect their hands", as skp wrote. Guess I'll go back and rewind (probably not)...
Ya, the scene I had in mind is the one that Sammy identifies.
Granted I only saw the movie once (and didn't particularly like it) so I may be mistaken. Well, I am not mistaken about seeing these players not protecting their cards but I could be mistaken on the particular scene.
Coolhand Luke is a +++. I also like the scene from The Sting. Rounders is so-so
Since I like hold'em so much and the only hands in other movies seem to be stud - I have to opt for Rounders - the 2 hands with KGB specially the 1st where Mike lost to the A's full of 9's is a classic hand.
The rematch with the nut straight - Ala Johnny Chan vs Eric Sidel was a close 2nd.
.. in that final hand w/Mike(and what could he have possibly put Mike on), for the betting in that hand to go the way it did?
The first hand is much better(even though I think they screwed up the blinds/seating order from the previous montage), but didja notice how Mike and KGB each had around $50K and the other two guys about $3-4K each? :)
Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie(bought the tape), but I was disappointed in the "most accurate poker movie ever made" talk beforehand.
".. in that final hand w/Mike(and what could he have possibly put Mike on), for the betting in that hand to go the way it did?"
Uhhhhh. . .since KGB says out loud "You're on a draw?", I would figure he put Mike on a draw, either the straight draw or a flush (I can't remember if the flop was 2 flushed or not).
I kinda put him on 2 pair or a set maybe AA (A on the river makes sense) or KK.
Remember he didn't play his AA strong in the 1st hand and is a very tricky player.
I think the movie was accurate in this way - the attitude of the players and the relationship between worm and Mike. There was a lot of sound poker talk in the flick - the chips usually didn't make sense but it was a movie. I'm a lot more like Kanish the grinder than Mike but there is a Mike in a lot of us trying to get out isn't there?
The unblievable part is he didn't give Petra "one" when he had the chance. She is a fox.
"The unblievable part is he didn't give Petra "one" when he had the chance. She is a fox."
Damn right.
-- Cyrus
Hon.VP, Famke Janssen Appreciation Society
but one big fly in the ointment was George Kennedy's phoney southern accent. Very hard to listen to without cringing.
Rounders rules!!!
The best poker scene in a movie, imo, is none of the above: It's W.C. Fields' poker scene in the movie "Mississippi." A gruff man sits next the Fields as he's dealing and puts a pistol on the table. The now-honest Fields picks up his cards: one ace, two aces, three aces, four aces, FIVE ACES! He's got to get rid of the fifth ace, so he distracts the table and draws another card. Guess what? Yep, another ace. This goes on four or five times before he gives up and folds the hand.
Fields, who in real life was a master juggler, pool hustler and card sharp, can play a scene like that better than anyone.
I liked a couple of scenes in the Elliott Gould / George Segal buddy flick: California Split.
1) Scene from old Gardena room where players dealt their own hands. Gould is mixing it up with a couple of LOL's, Segal (who he doesn't know yet) and a tough guy. At the showdown, tough guy turns over his hand, and Gould says," Nice hand. I didn't think you were that good." Guy starts to scoop in the pot, and Gould says something like, "Wait a minute. I didn't say you had me beat. I just said I didn't think you were that good." and then slow-rolls the winner. Tough guy goes on tilt and later kicks Gould's ass in the parking lot, Segal comes to the rescue and they become buddies.
2) Gould gets former straight-laced Segal into sports betting, the track, etc. Segal now cashes in everything and they go to Reno. Segal gets in a private backroom game and Gould is forced to watch from the bar. He tries to put a move on the cocktail waitress, and does an analysis of all the players in the game, based on about 5 minutes observations. Amarillo Slim is in the game in a cameo role. Gould is of course bang-on on his 'read' of the players, but Segal makes him leave the room 'cause he's disturbing his concentration. Interesting little exercise in reading the opposition.
p.s. also loved the "Four Jacks" scene from The Sting.
Post deleted at author's request.
Hey Gary, it’s nice to see your post here. I also read your posts in rgp. I always enjoy them. I hope that doesn’t scare you away. You apparently know about the 3-6 games I play in. One way I could raise ten grand would be to lock you and David in a room together for a verbal mano a mano and sell tickets for the closed circuit broadcast. Kind of a "Survivor" meets "Big Brother". Are you willing? How about you David?
..start copy/pasting his RGP posts over here. Us cheapskates got no access to them now that Remarq's gone.
The Rock says, go to Deja.com and point-click on "discussions". You'll find rgp there, jabroni!!!!!
It's not my ISP or my computer as all other pages besides 2+2 have a fast response time.
This thing is a pig.
of so many forums. There may be more people clicking and jumping to navigate around, puting more demand on the server. I know I'm doing more clicking and less reading.
It really is tortuously slow.
mm
x
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I won't even participate anymore until it sppeds up. It is ridiculous. I usually check it out at work, with this speed I have been wasting 3/4 of the day rather than just a few hours as before.
2=2 has always been slow compared to many other websites, but the quality of the chat has kept me coming back. However, since the break-up into pieces of Hold'em, it is 2 or 3 times slower than it was. I, like you, am now quite frustrated, because I check out the forums at work when I have a slow period.
NOW IT IS WAY TOO SLOW AND REALLY NOT WORTH ALL OF THE WAIT.
to load at all. I locks up Netscape and crashes IE. Is anyone else having this problem?
It seems to me that Al Gore has a much thicker head of hair than he used to.
is a poor excuse for a movie. It's cheaply made with a high percentage of graphics, and the real people sets are all desert scenes or in an office. There is not much of a story line. Lot's of macabre violence overlaying titty shots. Very dumb.
Why was I unable to find Poker Digest at the Bellagio this weekend while I was visiting Vegas? We're they just out all weekend?
They only distribute Card Player. Which doesn't make much sense since both Malmuth and Sklansky are regular players there and contribute to Poker Digest.
Go figure.
Vince
Beyond The Mat.
It's only incidentally about rasslin'; it could easily be about any three guys who're in the same career field; one in the penthouse(Mankind), one on the mezzanine(Terry Funk), the other in the outhouse(Jake the Snake).
BTW Mankind's wife is a stone fox... :)
What are you calling "rasslin'"? Pro-wrestling is real you stupid jabroni!!! The next time you call wrestling "rasslin'", I'll smash your face with the People's Elbow, crumple your fat face and shove it up your candy ass. If you smeellllll what the Rock is cookin'.....
I was disappointed with Beyond the Mat. It was a low-budget production by some MARK with a camcorder. Jake Roberts and Terry Funk are pathetic. At least Mick Foley knew when to retire.
Where did I ever say rasslin' was fake, Twitchy? I've known it was real ever since I saw your Gramps and Daddy getting their heads busted open by Ken Patera and Abdullah The Butcher back in the '70s.
I can't believe I missed the political wraslin'. However sad I might be that I was unable to voice my backup for acid-pen commentators scottie and mark; I was happy for three reasons.
One, however apolitical he professes himself to be, scott will probably end up on the right (I mean correct) side of the line.
Two, Michael7 didn't weigh in
Three, Rounder should apply to be on survivor II. Dopey 1950s Arthur Miller characters are "Rudy" chic now. Maybe he should write a book : "My political outlook may make you wonder about my intellect, but I'll rip one-liners like nobodies business"
a.
Download these Dan Bern songs from Napster.
"When The Earth Had Two Moons"
and
"Jerusalem"
If you liked those you may also like
"Joe Van Gogh"
If you don't like these songs don't speak to me again.
D.
The slow pace is driving me nuts. Like Clinteroo, I used to waste a couple of hours at work keeping abreast with goings-on with the Forum. The wasted time is increasing exponentially. I think I have no choice but to join Clinteroo in avoiding this place until the response speed improves.
...Here's hoping it does and soon.
I'm playing at the Commerce tue, wed, and thursday at least. I'll be playing 15-30 or 20-40. I'm young, tall, have short hair, and wear shorts and (usually) a t-shirt. Say hi to me if you see me.
Robin
Robin -- I should be there sometime between Wed. and Fri., depending on when/if they get an 80-160 hold'em game. I'm not sure I would spot you easily. (I assume you're female? The name Robin has some gender-flexibility.) But if they get the game I should be easy to find in the terrace section. Feel free to stop by and say hello.
john will be the ultra thin man sitting in the game eating tofu and carrot sticks.
Oops! I should have said that I'm male. I'm pretty tall too. It's thursday morning now but I'll look for you in the terrace section thursday night. I play between 8pm-4am or so.
If I don't catch you I'm sure I'll see you around sometime. I don't really like the Commerce but I'll be there around tournaments and such.
Looks like they got the game today, but I'm tired and won't make it. If they get it again tomorrow I'll be there. Otherwise, I'll catch up with you down the road. Now I'd better eat a carrot stick.
I spoke at length to Linda Johnson today. While she and I have many different and diverse opinions on many aspect of poker, as I have stated before, I believe that she is a person of integrity and I regret very much that there may have been any confusion derived from my remarks which were interpreted by some in a way that I had not intended. I have known Linda for many years, and we have never had a harsh word. We do have respect for each other even though we do have some different ideas. I wish her the best of luck in her future endeavors, and am sure she will be successful in whatever she does.
to the Sysop about the rotten response time.
even I a canuck who just briefly had the luck of meeting her and speeking with her found her to be a warm spirit and I look forward to my next visit to vegas to enjoy her embracing smile and presense. all the best linda you`ll be great at all things youwish to be..
jim grass ontario
Hell if there was they woulda chopped it at 4 players. 1/4 mil each.
:-)
Who says they didn't? ;-)
CBS had language in the contract that forbid any deals. I heard that CBS could sue a Survivor for $2mm dollars for non-compliance. I don't know how true that is. It's amazing to me that they all kept the winner a secret, so they must have had some incentive not to break the rules.
If you have set aside two hours to read the Forum, how do you choose which post to read?
It's a toss-up. I choose between one of your posts or your brother's, SmoothB.
Brett
You mean you can get to the index to see a post in under 2 hours? WOW!
Hello there,
As far as I can tell, the network problems for this site are occuring at Verio.net.
I think everyone would appreciate it if someone at 2+2 would give them a call and ask them what the hell is going on.
Thank you, that is all. =).
Max
We are aware that some of you are having problems with slow response times. It will be addressed and hopefully fixed in the not too distance future.
I have had it with poker in the metro chicago area.
I am planning to spend more time in Vegas, LA and Michigan at Soaring Eagle.
It is about 4 hours away - the average time one might wait for a seat in poker hell.
Anyone interested in sharing rides, I'm game.
Just e-mail me to discuss.
Mike Guzaldo email guzaldo@yahoo.com
Rounder,
You're in poker purgatory at worst. I have to drive 2+ hours just to GET TO poker hell.
Now don't tell me that your 12BB/hour win rate has suffered here over the last few months. :-)
Did you see that Hollywood is shortening their hours on Friday's? I can't help but wonder if my once-a-month Sunday excursions will be forced to come to an end soon. (sob)
Let us all know what you think of MI!
Michael
Be the flop... See the flop... You're not being the flop, Danny.
Hey PF see my Michigan trip report on this forum.
Mike,
It's bad on the weekends but during the week at Harrahs it's not bad at all.
Hollywood is so small that they just can't handle the amount of players.
Have you tried Harrahs on the week nights?
MJ
This sounds like a really stupid question, but I'm hoping someone can help me out. I'm going to Vegas at the end of October and was wondering if those who have went could answer a question for me. I have about 4 hundred dollars in quarters, dimes, and nickels. Is there a place for me to turn these in without getting a percentage taken out in Vegas.
I'd really appreciate any responses. Thanks
$$$
I should mention that if your coins are rolled,you may have to bust the rolls into the plastic buckets first.
If you feel funny about cashing in so many coins at one time,you can always stagger your trips to the cage. That's what my wife and I do whenever we have hundreds of dollars worth of change around the house.
BTW/ There are a few casinos that will cash pennies too.
Good Luck
Howard
Thanks for the response. I appreciate it.
HI,
ALOT OF CASINO'S WILL NOT TAKE DIMES HOW EVER, ARIZONA CHARLIES WILL TAKE ANY CHANGE AT THE CASHIER CAGE ONLY AND OF COURSE THEY DON'T CHARGE ANY PERCENTAGE FOR IT. GETTING OUT OF THE CASINO WITH IT IS ANOTHER THING, THE MECHINES HAVE A TENDENCY OF CALLING YOUR NAME.( INSIDE JOKE ) WHAT EVER YOU DO GOOD LUCK.
F.S. is right about the dimes. Some of the downtown casino as well as a few on te strip do cash them though.
Any questions, feel free to E-Mail me.
Howard
Yes, I know I was shouting. This site is getting slower and slower. Very frustrating. It takes too long for the forums to come up. The last four days, I have been getting "connection timed out, too much time has passed without transmission of information" messages.
That happened to me three times right now just trying to get into "Other Topics" so I could post this message. The posts also take up to a minute, at times, to come up.
Several weeks ago, Mason or David posted that you were working on it. Any idea as to when the problem will be fixed? It seems to be getting worse instead of better.
By the way, I am on a fast computer with a DSL connection. I don't have this trouble with RGP. (that should scare you :-))
P.S. I just hit "Preview Message" and it took 57 seconds to come up.
Mason, I did not see your post below before I wrote this. I was so frustrated trying to get connected, I did not read any messages. I just started my post. Even so. What kind of time line are you estimating to get it fixed?
FOR RAY ZEE AND ANYBODY THAT CAN HELP. 40-80-7 CARD STUD GAME. I AM LOW WITH SPLIT DUCES AND A 6 THERES NO RAISE AND I GET A 6. CARDS ARE LIVE IS IT PROFITABLE TO PLAY AGAINST 1 PLAYER 2PLAYER AN SO ON UP TO 7 PLAYERS, OR NOT PROFITABLE AT ALL.
hey is this my old friend frank from bowler city?
yea its right to play against any amount of players. you are a slight favorite maybe 11 to 10 against one player with a higher pair if you know that is all he has and a slight dog if you know he has at least a higher pair. if his cards are dead at all you want to push the hand. against a bunch of players you will win about 25% to 35% of the time, but getting money odds to play. depending on the size of the pot you play all the way unless you are sure you are beat and dont have proper odds to call depending on pot size. with this hand its one that loses alot of times but should make some money for you. if you play it well you should make better money than what you lose when beat as you dont have to pay off on the end when you know you have lost and they will pay off your value bets when they die with a big pair. good luck frank and maybe ill see you at taj or foxwoods as i will try to make it to their tournaments this year. post again on the forums we can use your insight.
hi ray yes its frankie i miss bowler city thanks for your answer on two pair. when you come to foxwood maybe we could play a game of pool? I need the 5 ball in nine ball.((i know im not getting it.)) thankes ray here is my E-mail address:ace1212411@juno.com please e-mail me your e-mail address.
President Clinton declared Montana a disasrter area today due to the fires. Among other aid, business is free to file claims with the gov. for money lost as a result of the fires. Is this a legitimate function of the gov.? Ray the Upper Madison(below Quake Lake) is fishing well, no crowds! Are you familar with this water? I want to go, my wife thinks I need to paint the house like I've promised for the past two years.
actually its the lower madison(i think). the upper is above hebgen lake and its this time of year the browns start moving up to spawn. october is best though but cold.6000 feet altitude. i used to camp at bakers hole for 2 months in the fall and fish all the area. i know most of the spots but havent fished there in about 8 years. there is the beaver creek fire which is right above the slide in bar by quake lake to give some smoke to the area. i dont know if they have it under control yet. sept. is grasshopper season on the river below quake and its really good if you fish hard. without a boat its tougher but ok. since the whirling problem most of the rainbows are gone and i dont know how that affects the current fishing there. i havent got to missoula lately as the old town cafe closed. one of my favorite breakfast spots. i like to go to bernices bakery and bring home their bread so i guess ill fly down one of these days and stock up for the freezer as im low. if the waters not too low some big fish are right in town around the bridges and at dark they are catchable(big browns). you can paint and cast on the same day.
Charlie Brooks referes to this streach as the upper middle. When I lived there I refered to it as the upper. Anyway the good news is rainbows are rebounding in this streach. I fished it in July caught lots of little bows 6-10". I sent a coworker there this week and he sent word that fishing is phenominal says he hooked the biggest fish of his life. I'm jealous, I never broke 20" and I have 1000+ days. Montana River Fishing Co.(mrfc.com) latest updates.Clark Fork to low for me to consider, but temps coming around. I have to power wash house now, but it needs a couple days to dry,might try run to Ennis so I can fish 4-5 hrs Fri.
I'm making the rounds once again, and this time headed out of El Paso to Phoenix. I've been given some preliminary info that Indian Bend might be the best place to play, but would appreciate anyone who lives in the Phoenix area to enlighten me further about places and limits to play (prefer 15-30/20-40/30-60 HE or stud games). Please e-mail as I will not have other access until at least late tonight. Thanks.
I posted the announcement below on the FARGO mailing list, and on RGP. I then realized that maybe some of you, who don't follow RGP wouldn't know about FARGO. Therefore, I'll tell you a little, and include a copy of the post for my unofficial FARGO event.
FARGO is one of the (now many) spinoffs from BARGE, the annual RGP gathering in Vegas. FARGO takes place every fall at Foxwoods, and will be on October 13-15 this year. For more details on what's going to be happening, go to conjelco.com/fargo.
For my event, read below.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Begin paste: If there is sufficient interest, I will be hosting at my home, on Thursday night before FARGO, the first ever FossilMan Invitational Heads-Up Poker Tournament. This event will be limited to 16 players, will consist of a series of heads-up NL HE freezeouts, and will probably be double elimination. The buy-in (no house fee, of course) will probably be $100. The prize payout will be for two places, probably $1200 to first, and $400 to second. The start time will probably be 8:00PM. I live about 7 miles from Foxwoods, and for those in town but without cars, I'm sure rideshares can be arranged.
If you wish to participate, please send your email replay to raymers@worldnet.att.net, and describe in a very short essay why you should be invited to play (remember, it is an Invitational, because I can't accommodate 32 players, and expect more than 16 people will be interested). The fact that you have a car and can give others a ride is a plus, the fact that you're a great player who would be challenging to defeat is a plus, the fact that you're a terrible player and your entry fee is dead money is a plus, the fact that you won't scream at the top of your lungs and wake my 3 yo daughter is a plus, etc. I'm sure most of you will think of much more interesting things that those I've listed.
Greg,
I've always been impressed with your on-target posts, your insightful analyses, your wit and coolness under fire. However, to invite a bunch of degenerates to your home over the internet, well, I think one of your fossils must have landed on your head.
Expect SmoothB to show up with some cops to bust the game and throw your butt in jail. That'll teach you for playing 47o.
SammyB
What, you thought I was serious? This post was just a joke, and no such event is really going to occur. And, if it did, we would be playing only for glory, not money. No money, no illegalities. As an attorney, I would never knowingly do anything illegal.
Anyway, thanks for the warning.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Greg, it sounds like a great concept. I'm on the other side of the island and can't be there, but i was wondering if you'd post some of the more interesting invitation requests. maybe set up a webcam. This is the sort of event that webcams are perfect for.
Sorry, don't own a webcam, and wouldn't want to bother with it if I did. If someone else wanted to bring their stuff and handle it themselves, I'd let them. However, it would be kinda hard to cover up to 8 matches going on at once, wouldn't it?
Plus, they'd only have a phone jack to plug into for outgoing data streams, so it would be a pretty jerky webcast (but what do I know, I'm a very ignorant person when it comes to this stuff; I just read and write posts).
I'm sure many of the participants will be posting trip reports on RGP, and that many of those reports will include some interesting hands from the tourney. I'll try to remember to write down as much as possible as I play, and to post a trip report of my own, here as well as on RGP.
Thanks, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Greg-
I sent you an email expressing my interest in this event. Please let me know ASAP as I need to make travel plans and hotel reservations for FARGO.
Hot off RGP - TOC president says they may add 3/4 tournaments to the TOC schedult or find another summer venue to tack the TOC on to.
This undoubtedly has to do with the tournament director charged with stealing $200K.
The new issue of Poker Digest glosses over the Orleans Scandal.We get token general comments about casino Poker empolyees being mostly honest but their will always be a few bad eggs.There is a specific piece about the new cardroom Mgr and all the wonderful cosmetic changes he will be making.This is disapointing considering the editorial in the previous issue that said they would cover all issues relating to Poker and would'nt be as beholden to advertisers as both mags have been in the past.Oh well its still free and contains a few good articles each issue,maybe its too much to expect more(like the truth).The main problem with not reporting the facts is many in the Poker community rely on rumor when stories like this come up.We saw an example of this last year when the jackpot at Sams was stolen with the help of mostly honest Casino employees and no one would touch it.
I'm going to defend Poker Digest in the sense that they need some lead time for their editorials. Give them a couple of issues and then complain if you are not satisfied.
Couple of issues!!! - breaking news - major tournament cancelled and you want us to give them a couple of months to respond.
Poker needs a Matt Drudge working for it!!!
There is all kinds of problems we never hear about. Card room managers being arrested for skimming and or loan sharking. Dealer fraud - dealers "eating" chips. Card rooms closing at an alarming rate - never discussed. Ad revenue is important - as a former publisher I know that very well but at what "cost".
What we have now is an informative couple of magazines letting us know where the tournaments are and who won them. Many of the articles are old and contrived by guys who for the most part ran out of ideas a long time ago.
English Adopted as Official Language of EU!
The European Commission has just announced the agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5 year phase-in-plan that would be known as "Euro-English."
In the first year 's' will replace the soft 'c'. Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy.
The hard 'C' will be dropped in favour of the 'k'. This should klear up konfusion and komputer keyboards kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome 'ph' will be replased with the 'f. This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double leters which have always been a deterent to akurat speling.
Also al wil agree that the horible mes of the silent 'e' in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.
By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing the 'th' with 'z' and 'w' wiz 'v'. During ze fifz yer ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou' and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
After ziz fifz yer ve vil hav a rali sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.
ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!
The Brits are gonna fight the EU tooth and nail - when a country gives up its currency it gives up it's soverenty or is it coverenty.
Can Amerika be far behind be far behind?
good point. german is just english in a german accent spelled phonetically.
scott
you are forgetting that english is seasoned liberally with bastardized latin ( mostly french and some spanish)
First, the Trop WILL go non-smoking before the end of the month, maybe as soon as next week (Sept 11th). The e-mail and snail mail has been overwhelmingly in favor of no smoking poker room. Even smokers realize that a non-smoking area is best. Trop lost a lot of business to the Taj. We will see what develops. The source was a secondary one but very reliable. Book it!
Next, the crowd in AC (Trop) is loose agressive at least at the 5/10, 10/20 and 15/30 (of course also at the pot limit and 100/200--not me), so come on down. I have done VERY well. The people are having a great time and the $$$ are flowing. If you read this site, you will fare well, just don't kill me. In a 5/10 game on Friday night, 2 contractor buddies lost $1500 in less than 4 hrs to 2 of us. Christ, I went out and bought a new TV before I lost it all back tonight. Love the holidays! Guys like small caps scott would clean up in the daytime 10/20 holdem games. Come on scott, get a fake ID. (Did I really say the?---too many Buds, I guess).
Rat$o
gee my dream of having smoke free poker is finally coming and i kinda dont play much anymore.
What Pot Limit action is there in AC? Is any of it non smoking?
I have not seen it yet. Usually today has a pot limit Holdem, stud and draw that runs in the daytime. It is cloudy and hot here today so the poker will be busy. I am surprized that there was no pot limit last night.
So, there should have been some, but I have not seen it yet. Why??? I do not know. There is a 100/200 and a 40/80 HE.
I apologize for the long delay in fixing this. I was traveling for a solid week with only sporadic Internet access and could not do the necessary poking around.
In any event, I will try to fix things as quickly as possible.
In the meantime I have discovered that if you access the forums directly (without maintaining the left column) things seem to work a lot faster. At least that is true from my perspective.
I've created a page: http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums.html to make access to the forums easier. If you use this page and it does not appear to speed things up for you, please drop me a quick note.
Thanks,
Chuck
Hi Chuck,
I thought it was to sslloowwwww dddooowwwnnn the bbbiiitttccchhhiiinnngggg aaabbbooouuuttt tthhee nneeww fffooorrruuummm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or better known as the check raise of CHUCK!~!~!~!~!
ukw
Your brother spells his name Yeneef. Get with the program, will you? :-)
Chuck, being the inventor of the internet I shouldn't be having these problems but using the link you provided doesn't speed things up at all for me. Everything is still as slow as ever.
If I could just get Dubya to debate me now everything would be right in the world. (I'll clobber em)
Don't forget to vote November 9th.
Hi That link does work. For Netscape 4.7, click on the link. Then in the main window, right click and select open frame in new window. That gets rid of the navigation frame, which I presume is causing the problem. I suspect a similar solution will work for IE.
Of course, now you have to use the back button for navigation.
Dave
I'm not sure how much longer I can take it.
The link gets the forum open faster BUT then its the same old wait for the messages to come up. Up to a minute for each message.
This forum is awful. It used to be an underground humour scene unrivaled since In Living Color.
Now it is where dorks talk about internet speed. Maniac Mark must turning in his grave.
This is a challenge to all my friends John F, John C, Vince, Scott, and the rest of the Young Turks to make this place a palace again. Start ripping jokes; talk about John F's powder traces, Scotts flatulance, and Erin's garbage eating.
a.
I dunno, I just thought that needed to be said.
Joe
x
...from the city to the north.
You two-faced punk! Everyone knows that the real zoltar was that video game that made Tom Hanks grow up superfast in that movie. If you think I'm kidding, ask the scientician.
Scientician : "I think John Feeney should stop pretending to Dungeon & Dragon characters, cut off his hippie haircut, get a job, stop living off the government"
Alex : "Geez, you really don't like John"
Scientician : "He stole my sombrero. He stole it, said it looked gay, and left it bent up like a b*tch in someone's elses backseat."
Alex : "Well, I didn't know that about John. Maybe he stole it to support his, erm, habit (maybe this will be censored).
a.
A pox on your people for this most heinous transgression.
I did not steal his sombrero; I borrowed it. I needed to rest 'neath a tree.
My hippie haircut was... Hey, how did you know about that? Let's see... 1973... You sure you're the real AlexB???!!!
can you see the irony now that you're reading this post? damn I'm funny. and tricky too.
Mark
best I could come up with, I'm off to a freshman barbecue
illegal everywhere except in Borneo.
you're bbqing a freshman? what kind of sauce?
Once upon an angry road
I found myself a horny toad
It's where I shot my very last load
Now I'm not funny anymore
Poker playing may be at the root
Of my humor that's gotten the boot
Now my funny bone don't give a hoot
Quote the Raven evermore
So young AlexB I'm angry too
This forum has gone to grey from blue
Might Need more young bloods like you
To redeem it from staying a bore
Goodnight and Merry Chirstmas
Vince.
I only basically know one way. I put some olive oil and basil on the inside of each trout and let them sit. Next I roll them in flour and fy them in olive oil. Looking for other suggestions including grilling them. Any suggestions regarding alleviating the bone problem would be appreciated.
you can nuke them or put them on the grill ,cook a few minutes and flip. assuming little ones. when the meat kinda flakes off with a fork its done. if it sticks to the bone its not. to get rid of the bones you can run a spoon down the fish from the head to the tail and take all the meat off. this takes a little practice but works. also the easy way is to take a fork and flip the meat from the backbone towards the belly off the bones and then do the other side. you can bake them in the oven in a dish with some sauce or whatever. hit the cookbooks for more info. i let most all of mine go so i dont cook too many anymore. you should never get a bone in a single bite of fish. if you like them fried you can roll them in a batter of beer and or egg with some cornmeal.
On the hold em 30-60 forum (medium limits) Izmet Fekali (a caterer with 611 years of experience) has posted some information on how to clean fish. Perhaps, with a little encouragement from the posters, he could be persuaded to share some of his renowned recipes for preparing the fish once they have been scaled. As for removing the bones, I believe Mr. Fekali has been known to accomplish this with a 27o under the right conditions.
Bon Apetit
Trout is not a particularly good tasting fish. I don't cook it in the house as it stinks. I haven't kept a fish out of running water for over 20 yrs. I do occasionally keep one from a lake. It tastes okay cooked outdoors. Put butter inside, season to taste, roll in foil and lay in coals. If cooked properly bones are not a problem. If I cook them on the grill I also wrap in foil. One of the biggest mistakes cooking fish is overcooking, refere to cookbooks.
Ed, i sorry you dont like the taste of trout. but im at a loss as to why your house stinks.
perhaps all those paint fumes have destroyed your sense of smell:).
Put a cast iron skillet over a campfire. When it's hot, melt some butter in it. Throw the trout in. In three to five minutes, flip the trout over and squeeze the juice of half a lemon on it. Take the othe half of the lemon and squeeze it in a glass of Scotch.
When the trout is done, place it on a plate. Grab the tail in one hand and make an incision with a knife an inch from the tail on the bottom side of the trout. Lift up the tail and a filet will remain on the plate. Do the other side. Eat the trout. Drink the Scotch. The smaller the trout (6-9"), the faster the water, the better they taste.
www.masswildlife.org
This site mite help you with all your questions.
paul
http://www.wistrout.com/recipes.htm
paul
My TV listings show "World Poker Open Championship" on ESPN tonight at 9:00 Eastern. Does anyone know more about this, such as who's on the final table?
yes siree, looks like the WPO is gonna be on espn on 900 pm eastern standard so set your vcrs
I don't know what everyone is complaining about as to the slowness of this website. It has ALWAYS been slow for me to where I have just knicknamed it "hurry up and wait."
I don't know why people are all of a sudden experiencing what I have been experiencing all along. I thought it was a normal state of affairs.
Haven't any of you people ever been in the army?
I am an east coast hold ‘em player who frequents AC, FW, MS, and various NYC games. I have managed to build myself a decent bankroll over the past month through some tournament victories and some big pot limit hands.
Because of this I am considering spending a number of weeks in the Los Angles poker area in the near future. I am seeking some information about poker there and general comments about my plans.
I have chosen LA because I think that it is most suited for what I am looking for. While I am a winning player in limit games, I find it very boring, tedious, and frustrating. When I do play limit I prefer the high action ramin-jamin type games that were prevalent at the former Diamond Club (may it rest in peace), and from what I understand are prevalent in the California.
What I do enjoy most and am primarily looking for is hold ‘em tournaments and pot limit cash games. Based on what I have read both HE tournaments and PL games are most readily available in Los Angles. Tournament information is available to me in Card Player Magazine and other similar sources, but if anyone would like to give a general overview of the tournament scene in LA I would appreciated that. I would most like to read some general comments about the pot limit games in LA, as well as:
Which rooms spread PL HE regularly?
How often and on what nights do they go?
What are the blinds and buy-ins for these games?
What is the skill level of the players in these games?
I have been and played in both Las Vegas and Phoenix, Arizona. While each poker destination has it’s pros and cons, I do think LA is best suited for an extended stay for an out of towner. Do the readers agree to with that? Casino Arizona was a wonderful experience, and for the casual low stakes player, I do believe that there is no better place to play on earth. However to come in from out of town would require the large expense of a hotel room and to rent a car to travel to the various card rooms and tournaments. Las Vegas is probably the cheapest of the three as far as room and transportation, yet based on what I have read the game selection and quality is nothing compared to what is available in Los Angles.
What I therefore would like is information and suggestions on where to stay in Los Angles. From what I have gathered from RGP and here the best places to play are at Hollywood Park, Commerce, and Hustler. What I would need is a card room that has a hotel very close by with a very good rate. I remember reading somewhere that $35/night at the Commerce was attainable. Can anyone confirm this? Additionally, I would have to get around town to go to the best Pot Limit games and tournaments. I wonder what transportation from room to room is like there in California.
Which room would be best to use as my “home base?”
What is the cheapest hotel near one of the main rooms?
What kind of rate could I get on a daily, weekly, or maybe monthly basis at one of these hotel?
How does one get from casino to casino with out renting a car? Taxi? Subway?
Do the card rooms have shuttles that go back and forth?
For example, suppose I determine that I want to stay at the Commerce. I get up one morning and have breakfast while playing 6/12 Omaha. There is a 2pm tournament at the Bike, then a 5-10 Pot Limit game is going at 6pm at Hustler, and I want to round off my day with some ramin-jamin 20/40 back at the Commerce. How easy or difficult is it going to be to get from place to place. I would really like to avoid the expense of renting a car.
I want to thank everyone in advance who responds to this lengthy post. I am new posting here, but I have reading and learning from 2+2 for over a year now. Now that I play seriously I intend to comment on other’s posts and post some of my experiences so others can learn from it.
The Kinish
kinish21@hotmail.com
for ray zee or anybody 7 card stud 40-80 all cards live TEN D JACK D QUEEN D VOICES ACE H ACE S SEVEN C AGAINST 1 PLAYER OR 2 PLAYERS AN SO ON UP 7 PLAYERS.
FOR RAY ZEE OR ANYBODY WHICH HAND IS THE FAVORITE 4-8-J-K OF HEARTS SUITED.AGAINEST ACE D ACE G 7S.BOTH HANDS LIVE THANKS
QdJdTd is an ~1.37-1 dog v. AhAs7c in 7-stud.
JdTd v. AhAs w/ a 9d8d2c board is an ~1.28-1 favorite in hold'em.
the PAIR VOICES the 3 straight; PAIR has the EDGE. HEY, FRANKIE, you from Joisey?
BILLM AND RATSO THANKS YES I AM FROM NJ.
NJ is the best!
Just finished watching it. I hope that the publicity will get more people to show up for next years event in Tunica. Next to the WSOP in Vegas, this should be the event to attend.
This was a terrible telecast and a terible final table. Every single hand shown/played was a pre-flop all-in coup, with a host of bad beats. Try watching this and explaining to someone how much "skill" there is at NLH.
I did, and It wasn't pretty.
You should be telling everyone that it's all luck (hehehe). I wouldn't try to explain the skill aspect of it to a novice anyway, because they don't get it. Anyway, I think the show my get novices interested. The show really looked like a kitchen table game. Most of them looked like guys from the local truck stop.
I love poker, but I now understand why it does not come over well on TV. The ESPN coverage was pretty lame. How about that Chris Van Patten. Has he ever played poker? What did they show; a dozen hands? That was pretty stinky. These guys are really not ready for prime time.
It does appear that ESPN does not understand it. The good point about the show was that it made it appear to the general public like anyone could be at the final table. The way they presented it was to make it look easy. So, I hope that more people come over to Tunica for next years tournament.
It is good that they made it appear that anybody could win at poker. Hopefully it will attract a few more fish to our beloved game. It was funny when that one guy on the table said some crap about "Well that hand was lucky for me earlier so I went for it again....You know how gamblers are". That other dude said any guy could make it to the final table like it was nothing. Of course that is true but he made it seem like it wasn't all that unlikely. I realized the announcer guy didn't even know anything about the game...Why the hell was he even there? They should have hired somebody who at least knew what was going on. Oh well those are my gripes. Later, Goat
I hope when I go down to Tunica for it next year, I see more new faces. Hopefully they will rebroadcast this several times throughout the year to generate interest in this event. I hope it brings the gamblers to the tournaments with the any two cards can win attitude.
BTW,I thought the Tunica tournament was a better deal than any of the Las Vegas tournaments I was at this year. Food and lodging was resonable compared to Vegas high prices. I was comped for every meal and that never happens in Vegas. Vegas is not the bargain it used to be.
By showing that poker is a game of luck, not skill, the WPO coverage on ESPN should bring new players into poker tournaments. The winner won with nothing but luck. He was totally outplayed. This should increase the kitchen table players' confidence in going to a real cardroom. Overall, it was a show that was good for poker, even though it totally demystified the mystery and mystique that surrounds the poker pro.
I agree. I hope ESPN does repeat broadcasts throughout the year. Since, it looks like Vegas is cancelling everything, like the Carnivale of Poker, I hope that this event will grow more popular.
Anyone have any suggestions on long term (6-12 weeks) rentals in Las Vegas? We're looking for a safe area, furnished apartment or suite that accepts a dog.
safe area and accepts a dog. hahahahahahahahah what a wish.
you might be better off an RV park. or you can ask if Mason has a spare room as i think he likes the furry critters.
Try the Desert Paradise Resort. They are converted apartments on Decatur south of Tropicana. 1 or 2 bedroom, each one has a washer and dryer in the room. The furnishings aren't top-notch, but they'll do. About $400 per week.
Brett
Delete this post!
This is is only for any one in AC who know Phil Friedman. I need his phone number and address so I can get a hold of him.
Over the last few days I have had lots of e-mail discussions with various people on the Internet, many of whom I respect highly, regarding what to do about the brouhaha caused by the request of Badger and Carson to have their posts deleted from the 2+2 forum and my refusual to do so.
Reasonable people have encouraged me to not delete any posts. Others have encouraged me to do so. Now that 2+2 has made it my decision what to do, I have decided to go ahead and delete them. I expect that this will take some time, but I will do my best to get it done before the end of this weekend.
To avoid thread disruption, I will only be deleting the contents of the messages, not the messages themselves. Also, I will be saving copies of the deleted messages for a few weeks to make sure that I have not inadvertently deleted a post made by someone else. (Neither person used an e-mail address on their posts...at least in the small sample I've looked at...so I can't be 100% sure that a post from "Badger" is a post from the Badger though I am reasonably sure that no one else has posted under that name.) If I don't hear from anyone regarding a specific message within a week or two, I will delete the saved instances as well.
Also, Badger and Carson: presuming you read this, would you please check the archives next week and let me know if I happen to have missed any of your posts. I want to be done with this.
Please note that I will not delete any posts made by Badger or Carson after the date and time of this post. Also, please note the new Terms and Conditions that are linked to from the left column.
You are taking away one of Carson's and Badger's main souces of activity......complaining and whinning about the deleted posts!!
So sorry to see you stuck in the middle of this debate! You don't deserve this grief!
David, through wisdom, not cowardice as badger asserts on RGP, deferred to you for a decision in this matter. I'm sure it was a tough one. David knows integrity when he sees it, he couldn't have left it in better hands. BTW I would have felt the same way if the posts weren't going to be deleted. You're a good man Chuck. I add my name to those who are sorry you had to get involved in the mud slinging. Badger owes you a sincere apology.
I protest! I protest! I protest! When you say it three times you add "the force" to your protest. Why are you deleting the works of a weasel, excuse me a badger, and Johnny Carson? Or is that Gary, never can get that right. As I was saying what have these two posters done to deserve this deletion of their high valu posts. God I hope they don't read this. I would be embarrassed. Oh no problem, Badger refuses to read anything that has Vince Lepore as the author. My loss, his gain. Did I say that correctly?
Back to the main issue. Deletion of their posts. Mason, when he made the deletion decisions he at least based his decision on the size of Abdul's organ. I don't want to say penis because then Mason may delete this. But wait aminute Mason is not making the deletion decision, Chuck is? So Chuck how do you feel about penis? Does it disturb you as much as Mason? I'm confused, so confused. Will you now delete my penis, I mean message, because I mentioned the size of Abduls thing. (notice I'm limiting the amount of penises or is that penii, i'm using).
O.K, O.K, let's say you delete the contents of Badger/Carson messages and not their post headings, and I go to the archives and see the names Carson and or Badger, will I be turned into stone for reading their name? Is it like looking back at Sodom and Gomorrah (yuk how do you spell that). In other words will I be Sodomized for looking at thier thread titles? Also and more importantly can I be sued by Badger for saying his name under my breath? I am beginning to get afraid? Fa klept, I think is more appropriate to my condiditon right now. Please answer these question or I will refuse to read the archives. One must be careful. Also If there are any posts in the archives with the Name Vince Lepore on them please send them to David Sklansky, they may help him really understand this game of poker.
As usual,
Vince
Don't delete the text and leave the names, delete the names and leave the text.
Better yet put carson's name on badger's posts and vice versa. That'll serve badger right for acting like a brat and Gary wouldn't even notice that all of a sudden he's finally making some sense.
Even better change the name on all of badger's posts to michael hall and all of gary's posts to mike meyers.
Now, we're getting somewhere.
Before they all get deleted, look for them in archives, quote them and comment....that way they get archived again..........
x
Chuck, you already know how I feel about this. And I do not want to question your judgment or argue with you. But I would like to know why you decided to acquiesce to the demands of these self-absorbed crybaby whiners?
Brett
(This post will self-delete in 90 days)
I know most of the hardcore complaining is being done on RGP but I get enough spam as it is. Perhaps the rest of you are trying to avoid that here. Oh well.
I'm somewhat shocked that their whining actually resulted in them getting their way. Chuck, you had it right the first time. I was very shocked when Badger made the threats to encourage all not to patronize Conjelco. It was quite a display of selfish behavior. Even though I'm rather upset with your decision I will continue to buy from Conjelco. Hell, you've got that discount on 2+2 publications :). Where else am I going to go?
In your deleting of posts, I would like to point you towards Badger's Strategy/Tactics thread. It is an excellent place to start. Without a doubt the most tedious piece of tiffle I have ever waded through on this site.
I buy a lot of poker books. Carson's and Badger's book are big dogs to ever make it to my bookshelf. This is not (entirely) out of spite. I have been exposed to their thought here. Despite Sklansky's claim I did not see much of value in Badger's posts. I did think Carson had some interesting ideas about loose games as also expressed on Fekali's website but I can't get over what big jerks these two are coming across as.
Please note the new terms and conditions under which the usage of this site is now governed. You can read them by following the link in the left column, or by clicking here.
I log on to this forum using different web browsers and different computers, both fast.
It takes so long to navigate that I am getting to the point where I do not want to go through it any more. The forums are so valuable to me that I am very discouraged. It took me several attempts to get past the inactivity time outs so I could post this. This can't be good for your business. I am spending a bigger proportion of my available time on RGP. I would rather spend it here.
A good consultant can solve this problem. Is it a matter of cost to fix it? If not, it should have been solved by now.
Do you have a plan? When will it be fixed?
I am curious, are others experiencing the same level of frustration? Is it affecting how often you log on? Is it affecting how often you post?
HELP
I am also frustrated, and hoping that the problem resolves soon. I appreciate all the work that Chuck and 2+2 do for us, and don't want to come across as being a complainer here. However, it is getting less and less fun to come here to read and post.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I am also frustrated, and hoping that the problem resolves soon. I appreciate all the work that Chuck and 2+2 do for us, and don't want to come across as being a complainer here. However, it is getting less and less fun to come here to read and post.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
x
It is getting so unbearable that I am close to just giving up and trying later. As a constant lurker and sometimes poster, I am very discouraged at the slowness. I came back from a week vacation with a backlog of messages and I cannot come close to reading even a fraction.
I log on to this forum using different web browsers and different computers, both fast.
It takes so long to navigate that I am getting to the point where I do not want to go through it any more. The forums are so valuable to me that I am very discouraged. It took me several attempts to get past the inactivity time outs so I could post this. This can't be good for your business. I am spending a bigger proportion of my available time on RGP. I would rather spend it here.
A good consultant can solve this problem. Is it a matter of cost to fix it? If not, it should have been solved by now. Do you have a plan? When will it be fixed?
I am curious, are others experiencing the same level of frustration? Is it affecting how often you log on? Is it affecting how often you post?
HELP
.
I would like to have read the responses to your post Chuck, however, I clicked them, waited two minutes and nothing, left the room for ten minutes and came back. Still nothing.
Then I tried to read Tyro's post. Same thing. I suggest rather than worrying about Badger and Carson, you solve the slowness problem. I think 90% of the posters don't give a damn about these silly, egotistical arguments that go on. We just want to discuss/learn poker. However, if this site remains as slow as it is no one will use it, which will hurt all of us.
Just some of my rambling thoughts.
Chuck, have you added anything to the server computer lately?
This software appears to use CGI scripts, which are horribly inefficient as the computer has to spawn a new process for every page request. Thus it will be really sensitive to available memory, hard disk space, etc.
I don't know what Operating system your server uses, but you might want to spend some time performance tuning it. If you're using an ISP with a shared server, see if you didn't lose some resources somewhere along the way.
I’m trying to decode some of the new Terms and Conditions. Correct me if I am mistaken.
“Please read the terms and conditions of this agreement and the operating policies before using the Two Plus Two Publishing (2+2) website. By using the 2+2 website you agree to be bound by the terms and conditions and the operating policies below. If you do not wish to be bound by these terms, conditions, and operating policies, please do not use the 2+2 website.”
This means if you don’t like the terms and conditions, post somewhere else. OK, I can live with that.
”You are responsible for your own posts. It is solely your responsibility to evaluate the accuracy, completeness and usefulness of all opinions, advice, services and other information, and the quality and merchantability of all merchandise, provided through 2+2.”
In other words, you have no guarantee the information is any good but will rely on reputation. That’s OK, I’ll read a thread so long as Jim Brier starts it and a Canadian replies ;-).
While you are free to post on the 2+2 website using an alias, you may not post pretending to be someone else.
Will “Al Gore, Inventor of the Internet” be barred from 2+2? Obviously he is not the real inventor of the Internet.
”Neither 2+2 nor ConJelCo warrant that the functions or services performed by or on the 2+2 website will be uninterrupted or error free or that defects will be corrected. The 2+2 website is provided on an "as is, as available" basis.”
Do you mean Chuck will be spending so much time deleting Carson’s and Badger’s posts that the speed problem may not ever be corrected?
”If you are dissatisfied with the 2+2 website or with any terms, conditions, operating policies, rules or guidelines of 2+2 and ConJelCo in providing the 2+2 website, your sole and exclusive remedy is to discontinue using the 2+2 website.”
Good. If enough people leave, maybe I can load the message index ;-).
The course of conduct of you or 2+2 or ConJelCo or trade practice shall not modify the terms of this agreement of operating policies. If any provisions of this agreement or the operating policies are determined by a court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid, all other terms and conditions shall remain in full force and effect.
You mean this might go to the Supreme Court. Who will David Sklansky give the $50,000 to if it does?
”All other trademarks and copyrights appearing on the 2+2 website are owned by their respective companies. Copyrights to all posts on the 2+2 website are owned by the authors of the posts, and not by 2+2 or ConJelCo. If you want to reproduce a 2+2 website post in a publication or on another web site, please get permission from the author of the post.”
So if you quote an entire post, either link to it or get permission from the author. Is it OK to print parts of posts as long as you credit the author?
By posting on the 2+2 website you expressly grant 2+2 and ConJelCo the right to continue to make your post available anywhere on the 2+2 website as long as they deem it desirable.”
This means that now that Badger and Carson have been granted their wishes, the door is closed. I don’t have to worry that if I reply to skp or Dan Hanson and they are taken over by the spirit of an evil twin, they can delete their posts. In other words, there will no more deletions. IS THIS CORRECT?
Regards,
Rick
let me stress that i havent done a proper job, but that ive identified a few things that are probably causing or at least contributing to forum slowness, and have corrected them for my computer, resulting in a measurable decrease in bandwidth use and (although subjective) time to load. (although i wont take you step by step through this, as this involves redirecting advertisements, and a possible loss of income for the forum).
ive found that the following unnecessary connections(from my point of view at least) are being made when i load a discussion.
www.paradisepoker.co.cr 209.143.212.22 a128-11-47-238.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com
in addition to there being more connections, my (let me stress) preliminary investigation has determined that these connections may increase bandwidth use by as much as 500%. thus to load a 7k webpage you may actually have to download 35k. also i believe that these connections must complete their activities before the actual webpage starts to load, so that a delay among any one of them stalls the whole process.
to sum up, i think we all realize that advertisements are part of a commercial web site such as 2+2, but when the central mission of the website is endangered, i think swift action is necessary. i recommend that all advertisements and other nonessentials be removed from the exchange forum as a test, and that the administrator look into this issue.
thank you (lurker and sometime poster) brad
If this were the case, then it would just take a long time to load each page. But I am experiencing time-outs, meaning that too much time is expiring without any information being sent (or received) from the site.
Brett
Delete this post!
I have removed advertisements temporarily from this forum as per Brad's suggestion. So far it doesn't seem to help.
Chuck
it is moving a lot faster on my end, notacably more so
Its as fast as it used to be before this problem started.
Folks,
If you are experiencing slowness and you have the ability, could you please do a traceroute to twoplustwo.com from your location, capture the results, and send them to me? I need your help in figuring out what is going wrong.
Thanks,
Chuck
ive just been monitoring open ports and then redirecting all unwanted connections (like ads.tripod.com) to localhost. this seemed to clear up the problem for me. also ive noticed that if you access the main site www.twoplustwo.com you have like 8 open connections, as opposed to having a forum open alone, www.twoplustwo.com/cgi-bin/exchange.pl, which is only 1 connection. sorry i cant be more help.
brad
Chuck (or anybody),
I was just able to drop down to DOS and run tracert from the Windows subdirectory (and ping for that matter) but how do I send the results to a file that I can email? It has been so long since I have used DOS that I forgot ;-).
Rick
Here ya go:
tracert www.twoplustwo.com >file.txt
Dan,
Got it. I guess I might have got it right the first time but the machine was taking so long with a blank screen that I thought something was wrong;-).
Regards,
Rick
Just landed in Europe and decided where to spend the next three weeks. My sweetie and I were thinking of heading to Vienna, but are now being heavily tempted by the Mediterranean.
Does anyone know if they play Hold 'Em in any of the casinos in Monte Carlo? I looked on the European Poker Players site but they did not list any.
Thanks.
KJS
There is no poker in Monte Carlo. And it's really poncey :-).
I haven't been to Vienna but I hear the poker action is very good.
Andy.
Don't read this if you haven't seen "The Cell" and are planning to go.
At the end when Jennifer Lopez decided to go back into the serial killer's(Vincent D'Onofrio)subconscious, she chose to drown(symbolically)the little boy who was representitive of D'Onofrio as a child. Okay, when the boy was killed(symbolically)it seemed like D'Onofrio's character phisically died, literally--not just in the dream state, at least that's what it looked like when Lopez returned to consciousness.
My Question: Did he die? And if so, how? Does it have to do with that old-wives tale about how if you die in your dreams that you will somehow literally die in real life?
-Thanks
P.S. I've had two recurring nightmares over the years where I died the exact same way both times. I won't bore you with all the details.
Yes.
At an earlier point, when Lopez wanted to bring the other little boy (the original patient) into her mind, it was explained that if you died in the "dream", you died in the real world also. So yes, Lopez killed D'Onofrio in his mind, and he died for real.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
.
But did the horse really die?
Are you talking about the Horse in the Glass? It looked like it was still alive to me, though it was just part of the Killer's imagination.
CV
I've taken the following measures to try to solve the performance problems:
1. I've temporarily disabled advertising. I'll be playing with this over the next day to see if that's the problem.
2. I've set things up so that the forums keep fewer messages before they are archived.
I need some help though. Removing the ads speeds up the apparent load time of a forum, but I am not sure that it speeds up the actual load time. This is because the first screenful of data appears much quicker without the ads...but I am not sure that the entire forum doesn't take as long to load as before.
I'd appreciate it if a few of you would experiment and see if you are convinced one way or the other. So far, my feeling is that there is no appreciable difference (other than first screen display).
Thanks,
Chuck
Things are zipping along now...nice work, Chuck.
Chuck, it is working better today. Thanks.
much better,
Strange. I still get long delays. It's just that the first text part of the page shows up much faster without the banners. I'm still experimenting folks.
Chuck
I see a huge improvement
Working very good today. Good job!
It's running great for me now, too.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
n/t
Far, far better today. And the advertising banners are still appearing at the top of the pages.
I am using the new address you gave us that eliminates the left-hand frame and goes only to the forums.
Dick
Can you make it even faster, jabroni? The Rock says it's not fast enough.
The speed is way faster than before from my screen, great job!
regards,
jikun
Would somebody be so kind as to repost the direct link to the rgp threads on remarq's server. Thanks, Dan
Dan,
Remarq no longer serves newsgroups. If you can get to rgp using a mail reader, use that. If you want the best standalone newsgroup reader, download Forte Agent or Forte Free Agent. You can find the homepage using Google.
If you prefer web based access, there is information on another method in the General Theory Forum under RGP. Look for Feeney's post.
Regards,
Rick
Rick, Thanks for your advice. Two problems with this, though. One is that I'm experiencing a freeze up when I go to General Theory when I try to access it. Second is that I need more exacting info on how to access it, as I don't have e-mail access yet at my new work, and I need to find a way to minimize the visibility of the folder/application (and, man, it's hard enough to do my 2 & 2 lurking with my boss doing some lurking...over my shoulder ;) ). All said, I do appreciate your help.
Thanks, Dan
DanS,
I stole this link from John Feeney's Post on the General Theory Forum regarding RGP using "View Source" from the right mouse button (it that giving proper credit?).
click here for newsone stolen from John Feeney by Rick
Anyway, that gets you to the web site. Once on RGP look for a Badger post about another alternative to Remarq from 9/4/2000 titled "New Ways To read RGP ...". That may work also.
Regards,
Rick
I access RPG from 2+2 using favorite links. I get there okay but the most current posts are not the first displayed. Is there something I can do to see most current first? How come threads are not grouped together? I saw that Russ Rosen won the recent 500 buyin 7-stud at the Legends of Poker. The few winters I spent in LA during the 80's ,I used to talk poker with Russ and attended a few ball games. He was a rare rug dealer and very knowledgeble about ancient art. If you should see him tell him I send congrats. How is it going for you?
Ed,
I saw Russ the other day and offered my congratulations. I'll pass on another one from you when I see him again which is every so often. I never went to the ball game with Russ but he did take me to my one and only visit to the track ;-). I'm doing fine all things considered and on my way out to play.
Anyway, try Forte Free Agent (or spend $30 for Agent) for reading newsgroups. This assumes you have email access. I guess a lot who post from work have their email spied upon so they need to use the web based alternative. But I thought they spy on that too!
Regards,
Rick
News flash from the backwaters of America, " For two full days this weekend Missoula celebrates the book in all its glory, as window to the soul, as time machine, as food for the brain, as object d'art." More than 80 writers from all over the west and readers get together to read, to converse, to mingle, to learn. Special readings feature renowned writers Paul Zarzyski, David James Duncun, Rick Bass, Greg Keeler, William Kittredge, Richard Ford, Mary Clearman Blew, and James Welch. Anybody familiar with these writers? Cool poster, cowboy on horseback, reading to the light of full moon. I am curious if any of these writers are known outside the region? Wallace Stegner?
four the lif of me i dont undurstand y i wasent invided.
I'll be playing a significant number of the heavenly hold'em events at the commerce. I'd like to meet some two plus two players so say hi to me if you see me. If you'd like to arrange somewhere to meet before any of the events drop me an email. I'll be playing tonight for sure.
Robin
I'm gonna be in San Jose next week and might be able to get out for some of that rammin, jammin California poker I've heard so much about.
What would be the best choice near San Jose? Looking mainly for 3-6 hold'em, also will play low limit Omaha8.
Thanks, Dick
Garden City in San Jose. Nice club but its been 20 yrs. There are some new ones in the area that I haven't been to. I know Garden City still has low buyin tourns daily.
went to bay 101 last winter and the games were so good that i wished i was a regular player again. but i dont like any big city much. many of the dealers and floor were old friends or enemies from reno and tahoe. when i played they had as their biggest 15 30 and 30 60 and the players were passive like 3 and 6 sometimes.
xx
It seems fixed now. I have experienced problems like this on my network. I found it was a problem with the server software. Once it was a bad router and another time it was an unorthorized NT machine sending out stray junk confusing our server.
I have found a site that will allow threads from any forum category to be hot synced to your palm device.
www.Avantgo.com will allow you to set your own sync site. I setup www.twoplustwo.com/cgi-bin/mediumholdem.pl set the total bytes to about 400k and link depth to 20.
Hotsync you palm and there you have it..complete threads ready to be read on your Palm device.
Just the site I have been looking for.
Best of it !!
MJ
(Sung to, House of the Rising Sun)
There is a place in Bellagio's
They Call the poker room
It's been the home to many a poor boy
Oh God - I know - I'm one
Now mothers -- don't let your children
Pick up -- that first playing deck
When you hear him pray for the Ace King of spades
Just wring - his silly - little neck
Now listen - if you listen to me
And think poker playing's for a fool
Don't let those children make any kinda bet
And keep - their ass - in school
There is - a place in Bellagio's
They call - the poker room
It's been the ruin of many a poor boy
Oh! - God - I know -- I'm one!
Thaink ya, thaink ya very murch,
David Sklansky, oh excuse me, I mean Vince Lepore.
Way to go Vince! I mean the song, not your results (apparently). When are you coming back to games you can beat?
My take on 10- 20 thru 20-40 Vegas vs. Connecticut Hold'em Games:
Vegas HE: more truly tough players (A- to A+), mixed with more truly poor players than Foxwoods has.
Foxwoods 10-20 with 1/2 kill HE: More grade B- to B+ players than in Vegas; almost no truly A players; a few C- thru D-
Mohegan Sun 20-40 HE: Some grade A players; some grade B players; a goodly supply of grade C- to F players.
In Vegas you will have been pressurized more by more aggressively-styled truly good players. At Foxwoods you will often have to beat players who don't give too much away but who are not as aggressive. At Mohegan Sun you better be prepared for some SWINGS in what is often an excellent game. At MS you must be very alert because of the action and because pots will often be contested by both D/F players and A players when you are in the hand too.
If you went broke in LV don't feel too bad; I have before also. Consider the causes and solve it and move on.
Anyone know of any games nearby (within 30 minutes or so)?
.
Nurse Betty - Absolutely hilarious, although the comedy is black as pitch. Pencil Renee Zellweger(sp?) in for an Oscar nomination. Director Neil Labute is now a BIG 3 for 3(In The Company Of Men & Your Friends & Neighbors). And any of you punk rockers remember the Warlock Pinchers' song "Where The Hell Is Crispin Glover"? Well, he's here and the same as ever.
"1-2-3-4, where the hell is Crispin Glover, 1-2-3-4..." Sounds like a cheer doesn't it? Which leads us to....
Bring It On - Also hysterical. Great valley girl/cheerleader satire. Has there ever been a teen actress(or actor FTM) who has had two stronger lead roles this early in their career(Virgin Suicides and this) than Kirsten Dunst?(Charlie Sheen in Platoon and Wall Str..oh, nevermind.. :) )
Gabrielle Union and Eliza Dushku should also become major stars, soon.
It was cool that my local sexdecaplex had these two playing in the same octagon, and only 15 minutes apart, so I got to sneak in to the other for free! Unfortunately, this also meant that I got to see two previews for....
Duets - The impossible has happened. A movie has been made that not only makes me long for an Eyes Wide Shut/Bringing Out The Dead double-header, but may in fact seriously threaten Natural Born Killers as the worst movie of all time.
Gwyneth Paltrow. Huey Lewis. Karaoke. Lovers. No, wait, he's her long lost father. Christ. On. A. Crutch. However, Duets may be challenged by...
The Watcher - Memo to all Hollywood film executives/writers/directors/producers: NO MORE FREAKING SERIAL KILLER MOVIES EVER!! IT'S OVER, IT'S BEEN DONE TO DEATH, STOP IT RIGHT NOW!!!
Keanu Reeves, serial killer(not sure yet how that compares to Keanu Reeves, undercover FBI agent-former college football hero). Brilliant serial killer. Kinda like Hannibal whatshisname. Sigh......
While locked to the couch watching "Sleepless in Seattle" last night with wife, I glided through the channels trying to find some sports updates and stumbled across some Brady Bunch movie, which I never, ever would have considered watching. It's actually kinda brilliant.
JG
(please no jokes about my boring lame life, that was actually better than average)
1. The Great Man : This is before Jack Webb became Friday and Ed Platte became the Chief on Get smart. Incredible performance by Ed Wynn.
2. Forbidded Planet. One of the best sci-fi films of all time. Incredible fx and Leslie Nielsen with brown hair. Anne Francis is a hotty and Richard Anderson looks the same as he does 20 years later as Oscar Goldman in 6,000,000 dollar man. Look for Earl Holliman before Police Woman.
3. Flight of the Phoenix : See Jimmy Stewart as you've never seen him before in this gritty story of a prop plane crash in the sahara. Richard Attenborough costars along with a young george kennedy. Ernest Borgnine is always great.
4. Bad day at Black Rock : Incredibly good Spencer Tracy film about a town covewring up a murder. Robert Ryan, Lee Marvin and Ernest Borgnine are great as the bad guys. Throw in Walter Brennam and Dean jagger and of course Anne Francis again and you've got one hell of a cast.
5. The thing from Outer space; James arness as a giant vegetable causes havoc in a remote arctic scientific base. The dialog and story are tops. One casting note, George Feneman, Groucho's sidekick on You bet your life plays an electrical engineer.
The Warlock Pinchers reference in my movie reviews post got me thinking about when I saw them play at the University of Utah in the late '80s. I turned to my friend and said, "Are they singing,..."I wanna die like Billy Martin, I wanna die like Billy Martin,"...?"
I never found this song on any of their albums, but there was one called "Curious George vs. The Ayatollah".
Well, though not a song title, I always thought the "Dead Kennedys" probably offended some people.
If I were African American, and living somewhere like Compton, I think I'd be offended by the recent remake of the Easy-E song, "Boyz 'n The Hood" by the punky white Dynamite Hack. But I guess since I'm not, I kinda like it.
Just to clear things up.......Punk and rap remakes do NOT go hand in hand. There is no true punk that has anything to do with crappy rap "music" :-)
How about these song titles for offensiveness: "Corpse Rotting in Hell" by Cannibal Corpse. (you may know who these guys are if you saw the first Ace Ventura movie) "An Apprentice of Satan" by Dark Funeral
And to offend our buddy John Feeney........... "Stupid Fucking Vegan" by The Queers (the Queers are true punk rock {so if you are curious as to what real pop punk sounds like listen to them}, and no they're not gay!)
All right enjoy!!!!!
:-) :-) :-)
simply put I find rap simply neanderthal and whats with all this epileptic seizure gestures looking down into the camera.
jg
RaPsUx!
z
Actually, I am too. But I heard that song a couple of times while driving to LA, and so I went to Amazon to find out about it. Made me look hip for a minute, didn't it?
You're not fooling anyone with that photo and the underlying knowledge that you went to that dorky little private school. Couldn't get in to Rancho Solano?
JG
Rancho Solano? Couldn't get in? I'd never even heard of it till just now, for god's sake. I thought you made it up, but there it is at ranchosolano.com. Well, I was not given every opportunity I should have been as a child... Oh, okay, maybe I couldn't get in. But I'm tellin' you, you're on very shaky ground calling *my school dorky.
dorky glasses you're wearing. That goes for the rest of the 2+2 clan. Go out to Lens Crafters and buy some Modos. All of you guys including Mason and David. Just look at those dorky photos on the books.
I don't have those glasses anymore. Now I have some that are pretty damned trendy if I do say so myself. I'm really very happening.
O.K. John, I believe you (haha).
The Rock says that the most offensive song out there is "We Ate Pussy at the Chinese Restaurant". The Rock can't remember who sings it but it pokes fun at the reputation that Chinese chefs put cat meat in their dishes in order to save money on chicken, pork and beef. The lyrics go "...I found fur balls in my dish which taste like chicken and smell like fish...".
Most offensive: the songs in the movie Romper Stomper.
I wish there was money riding on this one, cuz I've got the nuts. May I present the following works by the seminal punk/noise band, Anal Cunt:
Art Fag Big Pants Bigger Loser Domestic Violence Is Really Really Really Funny Everyone in the Underground Music Scene is Stupid Grindcore Is Very Terrifying Ha Ha Your Wife Left You Hitler was a Sensitive Man Hungry Hungry Hippos I Convinced You to Beat your Wife on a Daily Basis I Got An Office Job For The Sole Purpose of Sexually Harassing Women I Hope You Get Deported I Intentionally Ran Over Your Dog I Just Saw The Gayest Guy on Earth I Made Your Kid get AIDS So You Could Watch It Die I Noticed That You're Gay I Respect Your Feelings as a Woman and a Human I Sent Concentration Camp Footage to America's Funniest Home Videos I Sold Your Dog To a Chinese Restaurant Jack Kevorkian Is Cool Kill Women Laughing while Leonard Peltier Gets Raped in Prison Living Colour is my Favorite Black Metal Band No We Don't Want to do a Split 7 Inch With Your Stupid Fucking Band MTV Is My Source for New Music The Only Reason Men Talk To You is Because They Want To Get Laid Pottery's Gay Rancid Sucks (And The Clash Sucked Too) Van Full of Retards When I Think of True Punk Rock Bands, I Think Of Nirvana and The Melvins Windchimes are Gay You Fucking Freak You're a Trendy Fucking Pussy You're Gay You're Pregnant So I Kicked You in the Stomach Your Kid Committed Suicide Because You Suck Your Kid Is Deformed You Robbed a Sperm Bank Because You're a Cum Guzzling Fag You Saw Dishwalla & Everclear (You're Gay)
Can there really be any question? Although they are a poor second the Meatmen also had some real winners (not to mention being more of an actual band) with entries like, Crippled Children Suck.
Remember the Meatmen song "One Down, Three To Go", about the John Lennon shooting? When I saw the Meatmen open for GWAR, their roadies really liked my "Ed Gein Fan Club" T-shirt.
Was it Anal Cunt or Raped Ape that had the album title "Forbidden Florist"? Now that's bizarre.
Hello
We might have pretty similar taste in music. Raped Ape is a great band name, truly classic. Heard of them, never heard them. The Meatmen and Gwar would make a good show. I never saw Gwar live but I've seen some concert footage and their film Phallus in Wonderland (how's that for a title?). It looked like a great show, raping a goat, sacrificing the Pope etc.
I saw in one of your other posts you mentioned one of my all time favorite bands, the Butthole Surfers. They are also quite adept with memorable names. On their excellent album "Brown Reason to Live" there's the track the Shah Sleeps in Lee Harvey's Grave. The Hairway to Steven LP (probably their best) doesn't have word titles for the songs but pictures, some dirty. As far as I'm concerned they are the greatest live band. The only truly psychadelic show I've seen.
Ween is another good band. Some of the more disturbing titles like Spinal Menningitis Got Me Down are quite lame while some of the cuts with more pedestrian titles e.g. Drifter in the Dark, Baby Bitch are beautiful songs. One of the best titles and a pretty good song is Put the Coke on My Dick...
Geeze, I was goingto say the Dead Kennedys. I am dwarfed by Tony's selection
I once read an interview with Jello Biafra where he said the name "Dead Kennedys" was supposed to symbolize lost hope. Once you know that, the name is almost...dare I say...poignant.
Most offensive song: "I'm Proud to be an American" or whatever the hell the title of that piece of crap was. Second place: "My Way" (Sid Viscious version excluded).
Most bizarre: "The "Bob" Song" Only heard it once on the radio but the lyrics went something like "Bob, Bob, your name is Bob/ That's all you ever be."
Title: "Mama Goes Where Papa Goes, So Papa Don't Go Out Tonight"
That would be "EYEHATEGOD".
My favorite 'bizarre' song title is the Butthole Surfers' "Strangers Die Everyday". Remember how OJ used it? :)
I believe that I have deleted all Badger and Gary Carson posts in the current and recent archive forums. If either of these people are reading this and find one of their posts that I missed, please call it to my attention.
Deleting them in the digested archives will take additional work. I will get to that as quickly as I have time...hopefully within the next week.
I've made a modification to the Terms and Conditions in the section labelled "Miscellaneous". Please take note of it.
Chuck
Well, I feel I haven't been posting here as often as I'd like, but find upon reflection that I have very little useful to say about gambling. So without further ado, here are Colleen's five favorite CDs:
5) Santana - Abraxas 4) Toots & the Maytals - Funky Kingston 3) Led Zeppelin - The Song Remains the Same 2) Bob Marley & the Wailers - Exodus 1) Judas Priest - Point of Entry
Am I the only one who feels that Colleen is a little young to be stranded in the 70's? Could someone from Child Protective Services rush over to Jim's house with some newer music?
Rap is awesome. It is a form of music that blends vocalism with the beat.
And I'm sure any rapper could beat the crap out of a whole punk band.
Take the follwing rap for example: "i hope you can't sleep and you dream about it; and when you dream I hope you can't sleep and scream about it." The juxtaposition of sleep and dream create a rap that both makes sense and flows amazingzly well.
So Goat,you dumb-ass punk joker, Get out of this forum and go talk about poker.
There are differences between all forms of popular music, and much of it is a matter of taste. There is one aspect of comparing music that is not just a matter of taste, however. Classical music is far richer and more complex than all forms of contemporary music. It is, essentially, a higher art form.
While there are exceptionally good songs here and there scattered amongst much of the pulp of "pop" music in all its forms (and I have a quite few favorites here too), none of it can touch the best of Classical music in terms of scope, depth, richness or complexity.
Comparing any form of Pop (including Rap, Punk, Rock, etc.) to Classical is somewhere between comparing Tic-tac-toe and Checkers, to Chess.
I suggest that debating whether Rap, Punk, Rock or Pop is better may be missing the mark somewhat, and for some of those who were raised only on forms of pop music, perhaps missing the exploration of greater heights in music itself.
With that said, I will add that I don't know much about Punk, but that from what I have heard, Rock tends to be more complex musically than Rap. However, perhaps Rap, if you can get past the overly-repetitious aggressive edge, tends to be more lyrically complex than Rock. I may not ever know because it almost sets my teeth on edge when I hear too much of it. It, along with most other forms of pop art, is representative of the decline of Art in the modern world that has been taking place in most aspects of Art in general, which is due in part to overcommercialization--things usually tend to sell best when they appeal to the lowest common denominator in terms of sophistication. Look at TV, etc. It is almost axiomatic that while there are exceptionally good works here and there, the trashier and more filled with pulp violence a show is, the greater mass appeal it will likely have. Just give Joe Six-Pack something with which to pass the time that doesn't require any effort to absorb, and contains a car chase, a few pretty girls, and a couple of shootouts. He will generally be well satisfied. Throw in some really graphic, unnecessary and twisted violence, and you could well have a hit if you tweak it just right. As more generations are raised with little or no exposure to Art other than the forms of Pop Art, we have a cycle that is self-perpetuating.
I will add that all of this this does not preclude the emergence of some highly talented individuals who still might be able to produce great works of genius/art within a more simplistic framework musically or otherwise. Certainly there are such individuals scattered here and there amongst the forms of Pop Art, and they have produced some works of exceptional quality.
maybe you don't realize who are talking to.
KRA is one of the front rappers in the new MC*8 group along with A-lo and the Speculator. He could outcreate your ass any day of the week.
sheesh, learn to have a little fun and let entertainment entertain people.
I know this might be hard to digest with the size of that hole in your chest.
a.
Entertainment is fine.
It's just too bad that quality is rather uncommon, and that the shallower something is, the more likely it is to become popular.
yo its amazing some of you can even use multi(two) syllable words ...wow!! absolutely amazing..
jg
you way too slow, you got to pay the piper gay niels 'll bust ya, make ya wear diapers.
a.
gee bet you thought of that all by your lonesome..gee even ryhmes. most excellent no brainer..
sorry there alex but as you can see anyone can play shit for brains and I really respect myself much more then that so take care and best of luck in life.
jg
Dont take the time to respond cause I aint gonna be lookin for any words of wisdom.
classical mumbo jumbo. Yes Grandpa, classical music is far superior to everything blah blah blah, but that wasn't the issue. The issue posed by KRA, which is a far cooler name in it's simplicity then a-lo or the speculator aka wannabe #3, is that the genre of punk music is full of degenerates who only know three chords and prefer to scream rather then sing, and I wholeheartedly agree. You also confused rock and punk music in your viagra induced hallucinations, which would offend fans of both punk and rock music. And as for rock music being complicated, you obviously haven't listened to the pop sh1t on the radio. What's so complicated about stringing three chords together with a chorus you repeat four times? I studied the guitar for a while, and after about two weeks I could play a lot of the pop stuff on the radio, course it didn't get me any chicks and I didn't have any internal angst to sing of so I lost interest. The basic truth of the matter is that in both rock and rap there are geniuses and people to be esteemed, as well as hacks in it for a quick buck, like MC*8 and Bob Dylan. To finish, as the late great DMX said "Woo, Y'all going make me lose my mind, up in here, up in here. Y'all going make me go all out, up in here, up in here. Y'all going make me act the fool, up in here, up in here. Y'all going make me lose my cool up in here, up in here." I'd like to see anyone argue with that. Peace out, word to your mother.
Mark
You gave the example:
" To finish, as the late great DMX said "Woo, Y'all going make me lose my mind, up in here, up in here. Y'all going make me go all out, up in here, up in here. Y'all going make me act the fool, up in here, up in here. Y'all going make me lose my cool up in here, up in here."
Perhaps we could consider this the essence of Rap.
while i have no opinion on the matter at hand, i would like to throw my general support behind kra. i believe he is a talented rapper. however, i have not heard spectator and a-lo sucks big time.
scott
Thanks for the insult....... People like you just try to insult with names ("dumb ass") because you have no real way to attack me. I don't recall insulting anybody here but if that is the level you are on, go ahead and act like a fucking neanderthal. You like rap, I don't- Don't get all huffy puffy about it. I couldn't care less if you like punk or not and I'm not going to insult you because of your opinion. I refuse to stoop to your level.
Oh yeah, your little comment about a rapper being able to beat up a whole punk band, what the hell does that prove? It is a pointless remark, but since you brought it up, all three members of The Misfits could kick the living shit out of almost anybody on the entire planet. Just thought I'd point out one other thing you are wrong about. Later, Kris
Went to Vegas from Wed. nite to Sun. afternoon. I won't put any specific hands in here (will do that on the HE forum).
first night: I got in at about nine, met my friend, checked into the hotel, and went to eat. The hot roast beef sandwich at Lindys in the Flamingo is pretty good, but I was really hungry at that point, so my opinion may have been clouded.
I went to the Bellagio and got into a 15-30 game. dropped two racks over a five hour session, losing with six big pairs (2AA, 2KK, 2QQ) all on the turn (once) or river. also missed on all three straight flush draws that I flopped, and, overall, had the kind of nightmare session that you fear; I was getting starting hands and decent flops, but nothing was holding up. AARGH!!!
Second Day: I highly recomend the breakfast buffet at the California. $5 for all you can eat bacon, sausage, eggs, pancakes, rice, fruit, cereal, drinks, etc. I then got into a 10-20 at the Horseshoe. This was a good game, with lots of passive locals and one or two clueless tourists. won five hundred in five hours, and got my favorite comp in Vegas: to the Binions deli for the hot pastrami sandwich. yeah, baby!!
I met with my friend who was playing BJ at Main Street. He showed up with a buffet comp and a nice logoed polo shirt from main street that he won for having 15 naturals in 24 hours. turns out that all of the Sam Boyd properties have this promotion. we wandered over to the California to look for friends (we are from hawaii and have a contest where the person that sees the most people that he knows wins). Not many hawaii people in town due to a basketball tournament booking all of the rooms downtown, so he won 6-5 over the entire trip.
my friend took a bathroom break and I decided to play some BJ. turns out he went shopping also and didn't come back for an hour. I found myself up about 200 with 8 naturals, so I decided that i wanted to score myself a free shirt too. since I had 24 hours to complete my card we decided to hit the buffet and come back later. The Main Street buffet was alright (hey, it was free) but i'm not big on buffets.
Went back to the Cal and got my shirt, but not before losing 200. essentially, it was a $200 shirt, but I rationalized it by thinking that I won $50 overall in getting it, so it was okay.
Headed back to the flamingo because my contacts were killing me. rested in the room for a while and went over to the Bellagio. I got right into another 15-30 HE game and kicked around for three hours when I realized I was pretty damn tired. I look at my stack and found it was over six hundred dollars bigger than when I started, so i thought it was a good time to leave. In about 27 hours I was down a grand and back to a little above even. what a roller coaster.
The next morning I woke up before my friend and went downstairs to play BJ and wander. I was playing basic strategy with a small bet adjustment for the count (wong halves). bythe time my friend came down I was up about $1100 so we decided it was time to forage for food.
we ended up eating at the deli in Flamingo. not bad. we didn't play too much the rest of the day since we had to pick up a rental car and then pick up my wife and her friends at the airport. They were on their way to vegas via Cancun where they'd been on a girls trip.
we got to the airport and picked up my friends husband, but the girls were not there. Their flight had been delayed out of mexico and they missed their flight, and hadn't I check my voicemail (sorry tony). We took tony back to his hotel (treasure island) and finally corraled the girls when they came in three hours later.
continued
We took the girls back to the hotel where they washed up. we thought they were almost ready to go, so we decided to go get the car. half an hour later they come strolling down to the valet area. four girls, one bathroom. what were we thinking.
dinner was great. we went to an all you can eat sushi place called Sushi on Tropicana. $23 for all you can eat, and it's made to order, not premade. good quality. I think it's the best sushi deal in town.
we went back to the Cal (tony was in the BBall tournament, and the party was there). we saw and were seen. all that stuff that i abhor. I weaseled myself out of that scene, and headed to the horseshoe.
I got into the 10-20 that had the same (different faces, same players) passive lineup. was up about a stack and a half when my table broke and we combined tables. The other table had a gunner on it who raised almost every pot and straddled every chance he had. I was two to his right, so I didn't mind. the only time I didn't see him raise was when he actually had a big hand.
I lost two big hands and was down a stack overall when I looked up and saw my wife with a pleading look on her face. I shrugged my shoulders and picked up. To the many lists of reasons to leave I would like to add: when your wife says to.
The next morning I woke up early again and promptly gave back the grand that I won the day before. I was betting about $50 a hand and had two shoes that went immediately positive and stayed positive, but where I didn't win anything. AARGH
had lunch with the group at TI and then drove my friend tony to his basketball game (they got killed) after winning a hundred at BJ while waiting for everyone.
back at TI, the girls decided to go shopping at the Venitian. my friend dave, a USC grad, wanted to watch the SC football game and I decided to play poker. I was in the game (4-8) when I saw him jumping up and down with a big grin on his face. Seems dave decided to stick a twenty into a video poker machine while a commercial was on and he ended up hitting a royal for a grand. I ended up winning a rack in the 4-8 game then we all decided to go back to the Cal to eat and hang out.
After watching the first half of an ugly University of Hawaii football game I wandered over to the horseshoe for the 10-20 game. same game, same (mostly) faces. won four hundred.
Last day of the trip. we checked out and went to the Bellagio buffet. pretty impressive. I ate quickly and went to the poker room for a short (hour and a half) 15-30 session. mid way through, i felt someone in back of me. I dragged a pot, looked back and found Huck Seed watching (waiting for the 80-160) Cool experience.
won a couple hundred in that game after being sucked out on in a big pot. decided it was time to get going to the airport, so I went off in search of everyone else.
They were all on a BJ table. Tony had a weird littly deja vu scene. The day before, with $75 up, he had been dealt 22 vs the dealer 6. he split, caught a two, split again, caught a 9, doubled, 8, doubled, 9 doubled. he made 20, 18, 20, but the dealer made a 21 to her 16. same thing happened again, but this time the dealer caught a five under her six. fortunately she caught a 4 then a ten and broke, but we were all sweating it for tony. he later said that he didn't know she had an 11 because, after the day before, he couldn't bear to look at her hand at all.
I missed my flight!! we had called the airline and were told that it was delayed. it wasn't. everyone got on but me, but they got me on the next one, gave me a $150 voucher and gave me a $15 food coupon. no bad. Dave was flying back to LA later that evening, so I wandred around with him. he went to his gate to check in. I walked part of the way there with him, but decided to sit at a slot because i was so tired. good choice!! he was taking a while, so I stuck a twenty into the machine and ended up the trip with a $200 777. Good Trip.
Totals. Gross win: 1200
expenses -550
gift for the wife: -250
net win: +400 (plus a $150 flight voucher)
Sounds like a good trip. Sorry I missed you. You mentioned the Mirage in one of your posts on the Medium Stakes Forum but didn't see you mention it in your TR. I was playing 10-20 at the Mirage Thur. Fri. and Sat. nite.
I just watched the game there for about 45 min without getting in. the 20-40 looked pretty good, but I was hungry and the games elsewhere were good too. Stayed at the flamingo so the bellagio was close and hung out downtown, so the Horseshoe was near there too.
does anyone know if there are any poker rooms/clubs in the boston area??please let me know-Mike
No not that I know about!
This message will self destruct in 30 days after publication.
Regdab
Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun in CT are the closest legal and public games that I've heard about. It is about 2 hours to these rooms from Boston. In Boston proper, you'd have to find a private home game.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
There is club in Brockton that runs a $15-30 7 stud games on Wed and Sat. I think it is called the Brockton Club. I just can't remember. It's host plays at Mohegans and Foxwoods on Fridays and Sundays. That's all I know.
Vince
First, thanks to everyone who sent me an e-mail on the Arizona casinos. Not that I made any money out there, but it was helpful to know where to go ahead of time. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
The outcome of this trip was preordained. After a long weekend in Tunica and Louisville during the early part of August, I came home and tried to prepare for a longer trip. This entailed such things as paying bills, preparing my apartment ... and going to the dental hygenist. While in the dentist's office on Tuesday, I made the decision to have my wisdom teeth removed on that day. This turned out to be not such a wise decision, despite having the rest of the week to heal.
On Thursday, August 31, I set out from Indianapolis, headed for Louisville in a rented 2000 Grand Prix with unlimited mileage. Hehehe.
Still in pain, I drove the 130 miles to the Glory of Rome (exit 0 off of I-64, then 8 miles southwest on Indiana 111, right along the Ohio River, across from Louisville). Putting myself on all the lists, I found myself in a 20-40 stud game, where I promptly dropped $1600. Had some decent starting hands, but they all died. All of my opponents made big hands, and I simply couldn't make 2-pair. Not much of a way to save any bets either, the way the hands played out.
The next morning, I headed for Tunica. After a 6-hour drive (I-65 to I-40 to I-55), I checked in at the Holiday Inn. (For those who haven't been, the Horseshoe stays pretty much booked solid on the weekends. But if you can get a room during the week, make your reservations through the poker room, and ask for Teresa. Poker room rates are $25/night during the week, and $35/night on Fri/Sat.)
That night, I found myself in a 10-20 hold-em game where I won $1025 and went straight to bed. The next night I played in a wild 20-40 game with a guy everyone called "Mr. Lucky". My strategy was essentially to isolate him and to play big hands against the tighter players. That worked to perfection. One memorable hand, I played him heads-up, and when it got to the river, he bet and I called with a pair of 4s. I asked him if he had a pair, and he said, "split the pot?". I laughed and told him what I had. Nice pot too. Another hand, against the two tightest players, I had buried Kings, and after 4-way action, the flop came J-2-2. After a bet and a raise, only the players on my immediate left and right remained. I knew they had big hands. The turn brought a 3, and I was check-raised by the tight player on my right. Ahhhh ... but the river brought a King, and it was my turn to check-raise. Within 2 hours, I was up exactly $2,000, and decided it was time to hit the road again.
The next morning, I drove I-40 to Little Rock, then I-30 and stopped in Texarkana in extreme pain (anyone who has had a dry socket knows what I'm talking about). While there, I saw the dentist from "Little Shop of Horrors" (or so it seemed), then got back on the road, to Dallas. Spent Monday night and Tuesday visiting with a sweet lady friend in Midland, Texas (off of I-20), then drove the 4 hours to El Paso.
Played at Speaking Rock casino in El Paso where I didn't do quite as well as on my previous visit, although I did win $800. Speaking Rock is in a lousy location (exit 32 off of I-10 (Zugzuanga), go south 3 miles, turn left at Alameda, then immediately turn right on Old Pueblo road). The biggest limit game is a 15-30 HE, but they usually offer 3 tables at this limit on Wednesday and Friday. The casino is in a pretty rough neighborhood (but after all, this IS El Paso), although the parking lot across from the entrance has security. But I made it a point not to leave their too late. As far as the poker, my game didn't seem to be on, but I don't recall any memorable hands. It did seem that everytime I had A-Q, someone had A-K, but the game was not that difficult.
After a night in the Baymont Inn ($59/night), I drove on to Tucson. Got a reservation at the Holiday Inn near the airport and played at Desert Diamond that night (I don't recall the exit, but you can get there from both I-10 and I-19, just follow the signs). Got into a must-move 15-30 game. Was up about $650 and the game went short-handed. Strangely, short-handed, it seemed like everytime I had a playable hand, I was dominated by a monster. If I had A-J, they had A-A; if I had J-J, they had K-K. Was quite strange to see so many big hands at a short-handed table in such a short period of time, but I didn't perceive that to be an indication that the deal was not on the square. The players weren't really that competent, although a bit better than those in El Paso. Still playing below par myself, I finished the night with a $400 profit.
The next day, I saw an oral surgeon who put me on painkillers, antibiotics, and inserted an ointment to ease the dry socket problem.
Thursday, I drove to Mesa and spent the night with family. All the e-mails said go to Casino Arizona at Indian Bend, and that's where I found myself on Friday night (U.S. 60 east to loop 101 north). After a short wait, I played in a wild 20-40 half-kill game. The players in this game seemed highly competent, yet loved to gamble. At the end of the night, I found myself the only Caucasian at a table full of quite skillful, yet gambling Oriental players. The swings were pretty incredible, and it was very difficult for even a big hand to stand up. The hand that finally made me quit for the night, I had pocket Queens, flopped top set, no flush or straight possible, but got sucked out on by a runner-runner flush. Loss for the day: $1400.
While waiting for my game, I read up on the latest CardPlayer. Found an advertisement for a tournament at Sandia Casino in Albuquerque. Soooooo ... north on I-17, through Flagstaff (it was cold and I think I saw snow flurries!!!), and back east on I-40 to Albuquerque. Another Holiday Inn (yeah, I'm signed up for the Priority Club thing), but had to drive about 15 minutes north on I-25 to Sandia. At this time, they play out of one of those stupid Indian tents, but they are building a building. About 15 tables, it is uniquely the only place I've ever played where they had a Subway sandwich shop right inside the poker room.
Sunday, I played in a limit hold-em tourney with about 100 players. I really felt in a fog the first couple of hours, and tended to play a very loose-aggressive game. While this strategy often works for me in fast-action tourneys, at my particular table, I had one player who was in a hurry to be knocked out first so he could spin the wheel. After getting my initial stack (1500) knocked down pretty far, I started playing better and got back to par. After several hours, made it to the final table, but not in very good chip position. I immediately doubled-up, then drew out on someone to get back to 12,500. Then I just waited till they got down to the money positions (8) before I started playing again.
The chip leader had about 25,000, and was the big blind when I was on the button. Blinds were 1,000/2,000. When everyone folded around to me, I looked down to find the wonderful hand of J-3 offsuit. Hmmmmmm. The BB hadn't called a hand all night with a bad or cheesy hand. Would he be inclined to risk his lead if I made a move? I didn't think so. I raised 6,000 (we were playing NL at final table). He called! The flop came 4-5-6 diamonds (my 3 was also a diamond), so I moved all-in. He called with the Ad-5h and I was eliminated. A hat, T-shirt, and $480 later, I was in a 10-20 game where I gave it all back plus another $300. The players in Albuquerque seemed only modestly competent, yet tighter than those I'd faced in El Paso or Phoenix, thus the game seemed drier. Out of the blue, one old man stated that he thought I was the best player in the room, but he also had the tendency to refer to me as "Jesse James Jr." I got a laugh out of that. As Richard Pryor once said, "not all old people are fools; you don't get old being no fool."
Monday, I got up about 5 minutes too late for the Labor Day tourney, but managed to win $470 in a 10-20 game before getting back on the road. Driving east on I-40 late at night, I broke the journey in Amarillo, before heading for Gainesville, Texas the next day (U.S. 287 to U.S. 82) and meeting up with a lady friend.
After spending the night outside Dallas, we headed on over to Tunica and stayed at the Horseshoe on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Thursday, I won $600 in a 10-20 game, but lost $1400 in a wild 20-40 game late that night. Friday was no better, another $800 loss in a 10-20 game. Somehow I lost the groove that I'd been in for months (I'd NEVER lost in Tunica before, and had NEVER had back-to-back HE lossing sessions). The only memorable hand there, every time I flopped top set, they got cracked; conversely, every draw I made failed to get there.
Saturday, I finished just a little above break-even in the 20-40 game, but in fact played my best poker of the trip. Still not getting much in the way of cards, I had to really play well just to stay out of the negative. One hand, I raised in early position with A-J of hearts, and got re-raised. One lady cold-called as did I. After a flop of 4c-2d-7c, I was raised by the cold-caller, who it turned out later had the the 5c-8c. The turn brought a 5, and the river an offsuit Jack. While I generally will not pursue overcards when missing the flop, I had a pretty good read where she was, and when I turned over my hand, she said, "I thought that's what you had." Later, I raised in an early position with K-Q offsuit, and only she called. The flop came with 2 clubs but all small cards. Once again, she raised me when I bet out. I called. The turn came another small card, and I made up my mind to check-call until I was convinced she had me beat. The river came an offsuit 10, and she bet again. Now I had to think. I had put her on a draw, and it did not appear that the board had helped her hand. She didn't have an Ace, because she was aggressive enough that she would've reraised before the flop. She might've accidentally made a pair, but I believed that I had her beat before the flop, and the board didn't look like she could've improved, so I called her river bet. She turned out the K-J offsuit, and sighed as she said, "if you can call, you can win." I said, "just barely", and turned out the K-Q offsuit. That brought some gasps from around the table, but I had to smile. This really deflated what had heretofore been a quite aggressive player. The man on my immediate left made it a point that he did not chop blinds. It doesn't matter to me anyway, but this was good to know ahead of time. I was dealt A-A in the SB, and everyone folded around to us. I just called the other $10 and then called the BB's raise. Flop came Q-10-3 offsuit, I checked, he bet, I called. The turn came an offsuit 7, I checked, he bet, I raised, he called. The river was a non-threatening deuce and I bet again, he called, and then folded when I showed the 2 aces. The hand that would made me a nice win for the day, I was dealt the 4c-5c in mid-position and put in a deceptive raise. Taking the flop 4-handed, I caught a nice Qs-3s-2d. The pot was 4-bet there by 3 of us, and the turn brought me the nut straight with the Ace of hearts. I capped it, the pot standing above $500 at this point. However, the river brought the 6 of spades. Now I will almost always bet a completed hand, with no fear that someone "got there" on the river. But I had to think about this; could someone have been playing a flush draw? It didn't seem so, the action had been pretty strong before the spades had appeared, and I was certain that at least one of my remaining opponents had a pair, possibly a set. The other player was a loose cannon, but on the turn, he had gotten real aggressive in a "completed hand" fashion. I put him on Aces-up. But what if someone had accidentally made a flush? I estimated that was less than 50% chance of being the case, so I bet out, but alas was raised by the loose cannon. He in fact had been playing A-2 of spades, flopped bottom pair with the draw, then made two-pair on the turn and rivered the flush.
Stats for trip: 18 days, approximately 6,000 miles, 6 casinos in 5 different states -- and a net return of practically zero (contrasting this with the earlier August trip to Louisville, Tunica, and El Paso with a net return of $7200). Turned the rental car in tonight with 9,130 additional miles in one month, and they were like "is this mileage correct?" I about died laughing (it only had 330 total miles on it when I picked it up).
I gained a lot from this trip though. Much more so than sitting my butt in Vegas or California and playing with players who all play the same style. For example, players in Tunica generally play A-A different than anywhere else; players in Arizona play A-Q different than anywhere else. And it is most valuable being a new face at a game -- this always puts my opponents on edge.
Mistakes I made? Plenty, although the most memorable was the tournament I lost in Albuquerque. I estimated that I was the only player in the room with significant NL tourney experience, and most certainly the only one to have ever played in the final WSOP event, so it was quite a letdown to screw up the win when I had it in range at the final table. But the mistake I made was quite common: to underestimate or misread an opponent.
It's late, I'm tired, thanks for reading ... hope everyone gets something out of this. Thanks again to those who wrote with casino info.
Good report - thanks.
I have played in most of the casinos you mentioned and can agree that the styles to vary from room to room.
I see you are in Indy. You might want to consider a trip to Soaring Eagle in MtPleasant. I drove up there from Terra Haute a few weeks ago and had a good time.
The run a last fri of the month $100 buy in tournament and a 50 BI on Sundays. I'll be up there for the fri and sun tourneys later this month.
I still wonder what's up with the J3 hand - wow.
Cheers
PS: I'm puting a series of tournaments together at my lakeside resort in North Central In. let me know if you are interested via email.
guzaldo@yahoo.com
I can't believe that you came to ABQ and didn't tell me you dog. I didn't play in any of those weekend tournaments at Sandia. Did play a fair amount of golf that weekend though.
Sorry Tom ... was actually a decision I made the night before I left Arizona. I really wish I had gotten there sooner, as my Arizona results left much to be desired. But I did enjoy the Albuquerque weather and the games weren't bad, so I'll be back -- hopefully this year. One thing I forgot to post was that they also offered a pot-limit game the first day I was there (although it broke up quickly).
No problem that's basically what I figured. Glad to hear that ABQ was a good stop for you.
One in Midland, one in Gainesville, got 'em stashed all over, I see... :)
I knew I shoulda gone to college at Austin or A&M... sigh..
You better behave Earl :) You deceiving these men thinking you need more than one woman to handle you. I have to admit I did learn quite a bit from the trip and enjoyed everything and I mean EVERYTHING to the max.
Guess poor Bill couldn't figure out that Texas girls can get around ...
"Tomorrow is another day"
"Jenuflect over here"
"No man is a failure until he blames others for his own mistakes" Abe Lincoln
""No man is a failure until he blames others for his own mistakes" Abe Lincoln "
"Except ifin he is wit his masters mistress playin patty cakes" Freed slave to Abraham Lincon.
"Stop that goddamn tap dancing and give me back my top hat".
Abe Lincoln to that same freed slave
"Pass the holy water"
Vince.
something bill murray (murry?) said in groundhog day that is fits easily into poker, as in "ja, i had 2 pair as far as you know."
brad
"The Sun's gotta shine on a dog's butt someday"
"Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn every now and then" (helpful when the person who just sucked out on you is now crowing about how well he played the hand).
"Tomorrow is another day"
Jack and Jill like to make hay!
Vince.
Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty, but the pig likes it.
"I drank what?"
Socrates
Sex is not the answer
Sex is the question
"YES", is the answer
Sex is not the answer
Sex is the question
"YES", is the answer
The above is a misquote. It really goes like this:
"Sex is not the answer
Sex is the question
"Baa" is the answer"
Montana, Sheep herder, Ray Zee (BTW - Baa, means maybe in sheep talk)
x
When you have shot and killed a man you have in some measure clarified your attitude toward him. You have given a definite answer to a definite problem. For better or worse you have acted decisively. In a way, the next move is up to him.
-- R. A. Lafferty
The dead know only 1 thing; it was better to be alive
Joker in
Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket"
Under Ronald Regan's reign, the rich got richer and the rest got taken.
If your plan is for 1 year, plant rice.
If your plan is for 10 years, plant trees.
If your plan is for 100 years, educate the children.
Who knows who said this? (I know who knows.)
"I figure I may be unsure of my play, but at least I'm deceptive!"
"i knew i was beat", as i rake in the pot after calling. "then why did you call?" "i figured i might be wrong"
?
It is someone who typically wears a polo (not the name brand) shirt.
... get scottie boy to respond, and I can't get a nibble on this question. Okay, another hint: He does not frequent barber shops, but does own a vacuum.
John,
Why are you picking on Rick and his Flowbee?
...just trying to give credit where due to our 'Robert Redford hairstyled' tap water drinker. If El Supremo can't answer, he's the one to go to with questions about small pairs.
Oh, sorry all. This is all in reference to Rick Nebiolo's informative *and colorful set of questions about small pairs, which happens to appear in the Oz authored _Poker, Gaming, and Life_.
About 20 years ago Tom Waits was on a talk show (perhaps Dick Cavett). He brought with him a bottle of Jack Daniels (I think) and was a bit drunk. When Cavett asked about the bottle, Waits said, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.",
Regards,
Rick
When I was younger, my father always said to me:"do not trust someone who has no friends", and my mother always said to me:"take care of your body first".
regards,
jikun
When facing a difficult task, act as though it is impossible to fail. If you are going after Moby Dick or Jaws, take along some tarter sauce
* When I face an issue of great import that cleaves both constituents and colleagues, I always take the same approach. I engage in deep deliberation and quiet contemplation. I wait to the last available minute and then I always vote with the losers. Because, my friend, the winners never remember and the losers never forget. -Thomas H. Kean
One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared'.
-Dan Quayle
Doesn't George W Bush remind you of Dan? Who is more stupid?
Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words; they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character for it wil become your destiny.
"Marriage is a great institution, but who wants to live in an institution." --Oscar Wilde
"Tis better to dwell in the desert than live with an angry and contentious woman." --Isiah (I think)
Of course, neither of these applies to me. (Read: major suck-up.)
"Marriage is like green grapes!"
Vince.
I don't know what that means but I liked it when I thought it up.
suited!
"Every man is naked under his loin cloth."
"Every man is naked under his loin cloth."
Ah, saheeb Feeney on floor looking up loin cloths again.
vince
The Hindus most of stole that line from comic Rita Rudner. She was "naked underneath her clothes".
Rick
Yeah but the poor bastard that looked "Turned To Stone"
King Arthur
good stuff gents
I've got MyYahoo set as my default homepage. About a third of the time lately it never comes up. Maybe too much traffic in Yahoo?
Does anyone have a good homepage idea? I like to see selected stock quotes...top news and sports stories. Don't care about pictures as much as text. MyYahoo is ideal, but the performance is so bad.
JohnnyD
JohnnyD,
I think you ahould use regular Yahoo as your home page. That loads fast because it has very little graphics and fast servers. Any customized page I have fooled with tends to be a lot slower.
If you have some favorite sites for weather and such then bookmark those separately. They cam be within yahoo or speciallized sites (e.g., PGATour.com for golf scores). Anyway, that is my two cents.
Rick
mason will give me a bonus if i say to use this site as your home page. or use any thing you like that loads fast and get a logitech internet key board. its got buttons on the side where you can put your own sites and get right to them(faster than bookmarks) it also opens your url bar instantly and has back, stop, search buttons. even a favorites button.
you've come a long way since "etch-a-sketch"
...it freezes up EVERY time I mistakenly think I'm going to go there and it's going to be fixed. Is this a shared problem?
Thanks, Dan
P.S. My connect time to all the other forums is blazing now that Chuck has patched things up.
P.P.S. Another concern is forum fragmentation, which I was scared of occurring. Internet poker, small limit games, Omaha games, doesn't matter...they're all posting to the mid-limit hold 'em area, because they want the advice of SKP, Jim, and others whose main haunt is the mid-limit forum. I don't know if the best remedy is more applicable sub-categories (i.e., maybe preflop play, postflop, big bet games, game selection, card rooms/geography). I'm not proposing the answers, I'm just trying to rekindle the discussion.
Dan, that plagues me to. It seems that some of the posts are incompatible with Netscape. I suspect some scripting problems. I do not have problems when I use Explorer, but that is so slow I prefer Netscape.
i use netscape and havent had any problems since the dark days. it must be local with you guys.
"havent had any problems since the dark days"
u mean since u dug your way out of your outhouse mushroom factory when you had a gas explosion due to excessive buildup of soiled rags causing spontaneous combustion and igniting your 30 year old gas lamps used to light the dump
wku
for better or worse (in sickness and in health) I've neglected foreign films (although I've seen more than the average boorish inveterate Americano). any nominations for the best foreign films all time?
is Das Boot as good as the hype would insist?
can anyone stomach Ingmar Bergman's nightmares for more than 5 Freudian-frickin' minutes?
my personal favorites I guess are Magnon of the Spring, White, Mephisto, Europa Europa, and the one where the angel sheds his wings co-starring Peter Falk, what was it called? Wings of Angels?
are European women smarter, classier, sexier, richer, deeper than American women or is just my overzealous imagination?
Dutch film (with Rutger Hauer?) called Soldiers of Orange.
Rashomon 1950 Japanese film.
yes yes directed by Kurosawa
I saw his Red Beard and Seven Samurai and was impressed but it's been years; I resort to a second viewing before inclusion in personal best list.
(the classic gunslinger drama The Magnificent Seven was of course inspired by Seven Samurai; perfect casting)
Check out Throne of Blood if you like Shakespeare. It's Kurosawa's take on Mcbeth.
Cinema Paridiso, El Norte, Fitzcaraldo are all very good.
I really liked Fitzcaraldo enough to buy a copy. I thought 7 Beauties and Swept Away were very strong. I am going to get the Trilogy -- Red, White and Blue. I hear they are excellent.
I would reccommend Little Vera, a Russian film, and an Australian film, Where the Green Ants Dream.
Easily my favorite four-star foreign film.
Also, I really enjoyed the original Das Boot "WITH" subtitles. I made a big deal to my dad about how I liked the movie, then when it was released on video he decided to rent it because of my enthusiasm. Well, he hated it, and I can understand why once I saw the overdubbed version--it sucked!
-Don
Regarding Das Boot, I liked the subtitled version more. The guy they got to dub the Captain was just awful. But for most people, the dubbed version will do since so many hate subtitles.
A few years ago (stop if you read this before) they came out with a director's cut that was dubbed and ran about three hours (BTW, the original was a German TV miniseries that ran about five hours). Anyway, this long version was fabulous except for one change that I would guess was made to be political correct that made me jump out of my seat.
Remember the great scene where all hope seemed lost and the journalist was ruminating about the horror of his impending death to the weary Captain. Then the even more worn out Chief (the only one working do to lack of oxygen) comes down the passage and provides a status report on the repairs. It went sort of like this:
Chief enters the officer's quarters looking like death warmed over.
Captain turns to chief with forlorn and desperate look.
Chief: "Damage Report Captain."
Captain: "Yes Chief."
Chief: "Main batteries bridged. Approximately 70% power. Compass operational. Primary ballast pump repaired. Bilge pump operational…(and so on)."
Captain (overjoyed): "Good Chief. Now get some rest."
Chief. "Not yet. Just a few small problems left."
Chief trudges off.
Captain turns to Journalist as tears well up in his eyes. He slowly says: "Good men. You need to have good men."
What was changed in the PC nineties version? Some writer had the Captain replaced "men" with "people". F__king "people"! "People" didn't die on those boats. MEN did! There was no way this sentence could have been uttered in this context in 1943. No way.
This reminds me. It pisses me off that Clinton wants to feminize his equal opportunity military even more. He wants to accommodate female sailors on submarines, despite the incredibly high cost, impracticality, and opposition from almost every submariner in the navy.
Regards,
Rick
Thanks for the warning Rick, there's NO WAY I'll ever watch the P.C. version for destroying that absolutely perfect scene.
-Don
Don,
Ignore this flaw in the film; the newly released director's cut on DVD is superb.
BTW, you should have the priviledge of HEARING Rick on this change, especially after a few drinks ;-]
John
Don,
But the extra footage was great. See it anyway and prepare yourself in advance by muting the TV and filling in the right words at the appropriate moment.
Regards,
Rick
Rick:
Submarines have changed a lot since Das Boot. On my old 640 class boomer, the officers and chiefs had seperate quarters and heads, and I can't believe that a small partition in berthing and a small extra head would entail "incredibly high cost." I also doubt that nearly 100% of submariners would be opposed to working with women. I wouldn't have been. They want 2 months underwater with just men? Who are these guys?
Chris
Chris,
I worked on fire control hardware and software in the eighties for 688 (Los Angeles) class boats. I haven’t been on anything but dockside visits but I do know on a 688-class boat a significant portion of the crew still has to hot bunk, mostly on racks above the spare torpedoes. There is precious little privacy, as you know.
Perhaps the Tridents are big enough but the costs will still be high. There has been talk that some of these may be re-outfitted for covert operations (e.g. replacing the missile compartment with quarters to house Navy Seals). Extra space carved out to accommodate women will hurt mission capabilities. And the two months below water in such a confined space will cause problems.
I found these links among others on www.google.com using “women on submarines” (without quotes) as my search terms.
Link to Los Angeles Times Article
Space on a submarine is a real problem. The submarine force is an elite and works. Let’s keep it that way.
Regards,
Rick
P.S. I checked google.com for info on SSBN S40. Found this: “On 22 October 1990, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN marked the 25th anniversary of her commissioning. BENJAMIN FRANKLIN completed a total of 69 deterrent patrols and was decommissioned on 23 November 1993.” Thanks for your service.
Actually, I said I was on 640-class boomers but in point of fact I did 2 patrols on the Benjamin Franklin itself in 1979-80, so thanks for the info. (I also served on the USS Will Rogers (SSBN 659) and USS Thomas Edison (SSN 610), a "slow" attack).
$5 MM to retrofit a fast attack? I suppose; anything on a submarine costs a fortune. But if you figure a complement of 20 women at sea for 7 months a year over a 10-year lifespan of the construction it comes down to two bucks per sea day per woman, hardly an extravagence. Women wanting to serve in submarines might well have a bit more zeal and dedication to offer than the average sailor, making it perhaps a cost effective.
Yeah, they're cramped all right, but you don't notice it much when you're working. The thing that makes submariners "elite" (to the extent they really are; they and Tom Clancy exaggerate) is that so many of them they really like their jobs; it has nothing to do with gender. (I suppose some simply prefer close quarters with other men all the time, but the conservatives can't have it both ways on these issues). Restricting eligibility and competition for those jobs to just half the population doesn't make sense to me.
i dont know why everyone is so opposed to women in the military. throughout the ages, women have been an indispensable part of the armies of the world, only until now they were universally known as prostitutes.
brad
The Ladykillers, an old British Comedy with Peter Sellers and Alec Guinness. A friend of mine tells me that practically all the actors in this film went on to become stars.
The King Of Hearts (a Francois Truffaut film?)
the Pink Panther series was pretty good too
a friend from europe told me his foreign film favorites were-- jaws,on the waterfront,indiana jones.
i like the red balloon( not for most) and bean(very funny). ive mentioned bean before and nobody has agreed with me.
Ray,
I agree; I like Bean, too.
John
I will make note to see it sometime. I am unfamiliar with most of the titles offered here.
The Bicycle Thief ,Battle of Algiers,Seven Samurai,La strada ,Breathless
"are European women smarter, classier, sexier, richer, deeper than American women or is just my overzealous imagination? "
Yes, they usually are; unfortunately, they also tend to be hairier, as well...
Wax Rules
I feel American women are more aggressive than those of Europeans (the way they think and behave).
regards,
jikun
Aggressiveness can be a very good thing.
Yes Bill, it can.
Especially when the women in question are tight as well.
Spielmacher
so I take it you didn't find Mrs. Doubtfire's legs as fetching as the bus driver did?
"smarter, classier, sexier, richer, deeper"
yes, yes, no, no, yes
Christiane F. and The City Of Lost Children. I also like Trainspotting, Shallow Grave and Twin Town. The first 30 minutes of Romper Stomper are fantastic, but it falls apart completely afterwards.
I tend to like German, Australian & British films and dislike French, Italian and South American films.
Japanese films usually leave me non-plussed(although I absolutely love sushi and Japanese women... :) ), and I think Kurosawa is overrated, but I understand how he's kinda to filmmakers what Clapton(another overrated artiste', IMO) is to guitarists.
I have seen previews for Chinese and Arabian films that look interesting, but have never watched any of them.
Mark,
It's Wings of Desire by Wim Wenders. Some favorites:
Rules of the Game and Grand Illusion by Renoir; Tampopo and Shall We Dance, two Japanese comedies; a good combination: The Bicycle Thief and The Icycle Thief; Russian version of King Lear (can't remember director's name); Los Olividos by Bunuel; Spirit of the Beehive (great Spanish movie about children who think they have seen the Frankenstein monster); Heart of Glass and The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser, two lesser known Herzog films; Blow-Up and The Passenger by Antonioni; and two great flims about childhood: Whistle Down the Wind from England and The White Balloon from Iran.
Hardest movie to sit through: Salo by Pasolini
Director I just don't get: Almodovar
(Of course, by tomorrow, I'd have a new list.)
Being foreign (Irish)
I would still like to nominate two foreign films.
'Les Enfants Du Paradis' - The children of the Gods (made during the occupation in France) - A totally transendnt outpouring of French spirit (several members of the cast were in the Resistance).
'Tous Les Matins Du Monde' - All the Mornings in The World. One of the most emotional and beautiful films ever made.
Being Irish I can also nominate an American movie. One of my favourites is 'Beyond the Valley of The Dolls' directed by Russ Meyer. I believe the film critic Ebert (who wrote the screenplay) described it as 'a camp sexplioitaion horror musical that ends with a quadrupal ritual murder and a triple wedding'.
The music and style is fabulous (you need a widescreen to show the hairstyles). The screenplay has every soap\band\bonkbuster cliche but played absolutely straight (it got slagged of by critics on release because they took it at face value). It was supposed to be a follow up to 'The Valley of the Dolls' but when the original author saw the movie (produced by Fox) she had her name removed form the credits and a statement inserted to the effect it bore no relation the her of 'The Valley of The Dolls'.
Of course it has lots of female nudity (not gratuitous - because thats what it is all about) from big playboy models so I hope that won't put you off too much.
My worst foreign film would be 'Thirty Two Short Films About Glenn Gould'. If I wanted to watch wobbly lines jumping about the screen to atonal piano music I would... well I don't know what I would do exactly but it would have to involve the 1960's Czechoslavakia cartoon industry and Phillip Glass!
Keep Folding
Folding Pete
John,
You mentioned that you liked the movie "Shall We Dance." I also liked this movie, in regards to the star's secret desire to break out of the conformity of his daily life, but at the same time I found his(love at first sight)pursuit of the ballroom-babe somewhat disturbing since he was married and had kids(probably due to my Dennis Prager influence over the past several years). The movie even seemed to condone his behavior in a few different ways, and I just found that a little creepy.
-Don
"a good combination: The Bicycle Thief and The Icycle [sic] Thief"
And see next The Cycle Thief. (I made this up.)
"Director I just don't get: Almodovar"
It could help if you were to lower your expectations and go see him as you would a comedy. You'll get more in the bargain. His key is his total honesty and his refusal to take humans seriously.
"Hardest movie to sit through: Salo by Pasolini"
Yeah, but you haven't seen Hitler A Film From Germany. A total of 8 hours, in two parts! Gigantic theatrical sets, puppet dolls, scalpel monologues, back projections, a cataclysm of sound mixes, it all made sense - man, my significant other was really in love! Sat through it all without a pip and came back with me next Sunday for the 2nd part. This is the kind of film that will never be made again.
I miss those crazy days.
[And it's Los Olvidados. I happen to like almost all of his films. Read My Last Breath?]
Cyrus,
Thanks, I usually check the spelling, but I was in a bit of a hurry--usually I get "bicycle" wrong. And I know that Almodovar gets his inspiration from from those great Douglas Sirk films, but I still don't quite get him. BTW, by "hardest" I meant most stomach turning. Ok, easiest movie to sit through--meaning you barely move in your seat the entire time--is Moonlighting (1981?), a great film by a great Polish director whose name I won't even attempt to spell right, but you know who he is, I'm sure.
John
It's the same guy who shot Deep End around 1971, [Boy takes up work in the public baths and starts affair with older girl] which I mentioned in another post. Saw that one as an impressionable young thing, along with an army of trench coats; the title, where I lived, was translated to something like Sex affairs of a novice, and they were pretty vocal about their disappointment too. I was duly knocked out.
Cyrus,
Thanks for the correct spelling. I would have written Skolimosky.
Cinema Paradiso, Trainspotting, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.
Didn't anyone like this film?
-SB-
i liked it a lot. and the sequel only a fair amount but still good. how could anyone not like this movie.
Has everyone forgotten this one already? I'd put it on my list for sure. Other nominees for me (just off the top of my head):
Ran - my favorite Kirosawa
Trainspotting
Seventh Seal or The Magician - both by Bergman
Farewell my Concubine (must have at least one with Gong Li)
Ran, Hidden Fortress, Seven Samurai, Tokyo Story, La Haine, 400 Blows, Breathless, M, Battleship Potemkin, Seventh Seal
In my db2 class the subject of dates was covered today. SQL can support dates in the range 01-01-4712 B.C. thru 12-31-4712 A.D.
What is the reason these dates were picked?
I did some searches, but all I found was pages that said these were the dates that were valid, but no explanation why these exact numbers were chosen.
try converting the numbers to bianary and four bit bcd. that may give you the answer.
[I jotted down the recommendations for foreign films. thanx.]
since I tend to home in on sci-fi films of merit, there's little chance one has slipped through the radar undetected. still, one can always hope...
The Matrix, Aliens, Blade Runner, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Terminator 2: Judgement Day, Star Wars Trilogy, Soylent Green, Planet of the Apes, maybe Logan's Run, maybe THX 118. best vintage sci-fi: Forbidden Planet?
Mark,
The first Terminator was almost as good as T2 and the first Alien was a lot better than the campy Aliens. I hated the Matrix. A couple of the Star Trek movies might make it, especially the Wrath of Khan.
Regards,
Rick
I'm curious about your distaste for The Matrix and Aliens. Seems to me both were/are ahead of the curve. I thought the first Star Trek movie was ponderous and plodding, Wrath of Khan enjoyable, the one where they return to 20th Century to save the whales quite funny in spots and solid, but none truly memorable.
Mark,
I think Aliens was exiting and fun, but the first one was a work of art. I saw the Matrix on video, so maybe I needed to see in on the big screen. On video it just left me confused but I may have been tired that night.
Regarding Star Trek, I agree with you that these two are the only ones that are the least bit memorable.
Regards,
Rick
Start Trek II and IV were excellent for what they were, two part tv episodes distributed through movie theaters. As for classic sci-fi The Day the Earth Stood Still, The Thing (from outer space), The Forbidden Planet all from the 50's were incredibly good story lines. Star Wars and Planet of the Apes have got to be considered simply based on the believable worlds they had us living in.
I very seldom go out and buy a copy of a movie (seem to find most of my favorites eventually at garage sales), but for The Matrix I made an exception. Saw it twice on the big screen, second time alone. That second time my mind was still in wacky mode when I drove home (all sorts of weird thoughts like "hell, why don't I just go ahead and drive through that there Eucalyptus tree (there is no tree)." For one thing, I see the matrix as a superb metaphor for the modern world. The film also has a mythical dimension which appeals -- the Hero's Journey (see Joseph Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces) replete with Mentor, Judas, Reviver, Nemesis... And it's so visually arresting, stunning, innovative, stylish -- from the ultracool garb to the sets, the shots, the inventively choreographed fight scenes. Notice that even though the film is shot in color, grays and blacks and whites predominate (remember the checkerboard staircase); the sexpot in red sticks out as much as the little girl shot in color in Schindler's List.
The first Alien was I think appropriately more understated, claustrophobic and disturbingly suspenseful; Aliens was more wham bam visceral in its approach. I respond to the second one more perhaps because of its characters' intensity and colorfulness.
Mark,
You might enjoy waching Silence of the Lambs again while keeping in mind the fairy tale motif you apply to The Matrix. Notice how Clarice (THE STARLING) becomes an EAGLE by the end when she becomes a full-fledged FBI agent. (The eagle is the symbol on the cake.)
John
PS. Another very good sci-fi movie was Outland with Sean Connery.
What no Silent Running ?
Andy.
couldn't recall the title and have not seen it since its original release. certainly impressed me at the time.
Mark,
Andre Tarkovsky's Solaris, based on the novel by Stanislaw Lem, makes 2001 seem coherent. It's great. I'm also partial to post-apocalyptic movies such as The World, The Flesh, and The Devil.
John
IMHO the best sci-fi movies were made in the 50's and 60's, before the special effects and computer simulated stuff that has spoiled us today. Hell, my kids won't even consider watching anything in black and white. Anyway, at the top of the list is "The Thing" (the original, not the Carpenter remake). Honorable mentions go to "The Day The Earth Stood Still", "Forbidden Planet", "Target Earth", "War Of The Worlds", and "The Blob" (the Steve McQueen version). Throw in "The Andromeda Strain" (1970) for good measure. The new stuff is great (Aliens, T1&2 etc.), but in an age when you could sometimes see the string pulling the flying saucer across the screen, the above mentioned films really stand out.
John L
Now theres a champion if ever there was one...spoilt, hard headed ,bratty, love to hate him but gotta hug him. definitely got to see the new movie with the original big guy. thank god they got rid of the freak one.... Now theres a guy who`ll take ya to the river....
jg
Absolutely right jg. I left out the dinos intentionally but Godzilla is positively the King of the Monsters. Other reptiles worth mentioning are The Giant Behemoth and The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms.
John L
I thought about including The Blob but somehow that seems more monster-movieish. Or maybe it's because we're in an era where morphing is a routinely accomplished feat and the Blob was apodal -- and amorphous to boot :-).
Omitting Andromeda Strain was an oversight.
I've a friend who's seen 5X the number of movies I have who raves about The Day the Earth Stood Still.
As for War of the Worlds (and the Time Machine for that matter), though intriquing, the original novels by Wells were just so much better...
the first one i ever saw was the creature from the black lagoon. i was very young and it made me a fan of sci fi. i recently watched it again as it came on tv and was very impressed. it was true low budget and had some good stars in it. 2nd show was invaders from mars that i saw as a youngster. i agree the old ones were gold. but i do like alien the best of any newer flick.
The Abyss (full version) is right up there. Book based on the movie equally good.
Not sure if I prefer the director's cut (gets a bit preachy); biggest problem I have is with the deus ex machina resolution. Lots of great scenes and Harris (no relation I believe) and Mastroantonio made a good mutually exasperated combo.
Although they were "B" quality movies, I have to vote for "The Blob"(original) and "When Worlds Collide" because my actor father, Stephen Chase, had good parts in both. He was the medical doctor Steve McQueen and the girl took the old man to to get that stuff off his hand. My dad was the third person in the movie to get blobbed.
In "When Worlds Collide" he played Dr. Fry, a scientist, who was the pilot for the space ship that left earth for the new planet. Incidentally, in the movie "L.A. Confidential", which was set in the 50's, there is a scene with a movie marquee in the background listing "When Worlds Collide".
nobody here mentioned either the original Invasion of the body snatchers, the first ghostbusters, or Dr. strangelove.
btw 2001 makes all kinds of sense once you read the book.
What a great album, I'm playing it right now for the first time in years. Truly sick and disturbing artwork and lyrics, no wonder the tour was called "Better Living Through Chemistry".
Remember the penile reconstruction medical training and highway accident cleanup films they played during the show? I'd love to have a T-shirt with the song drawings on it, that'd be a conversation starter!
The actual song titles are: 1. Jimi 2. Ricky 3. X-Ray 4. Johnny Smoke 5. Rocky 6. Julio Inglesias 7. Backass 8. Fast Song
Thanks for the titles, I hadn't come across those. I had of course figured out Johnny Smoke. The first Surfers show I saw was right after the release of Pioughd. I've seen them about half a dozen times or so. Can't say I remember any of the shows all that well. I thought it was a sex change operation they were showing, that and a film about some ants, and some more surgery films, and a princess spinning, and a roller coaster, and bright flashing lights and FIRE and a swarming pit...
Wish I had seen them back when they had the double drummers and the skanky mute titty dancer. I read in an interview where Gibby was talking about their dancer and how she was mute, mute by choice. On a piece of paper he wrote to her the question "Why don't you speak?", she wrote back, "It's hard to say.".
Piouhgd's title was originally going to be "Jane Nixon's Red Hot Mojo Chili Garden Of Sonic Ni**er Addiction".
Too bad the Surfers appear to be done for, Electric Larryland sucked except for Ulcer Breakout which was obviously a leftover from Worm Saloon, but it was a helluva run.
The dancer's name was Kathleen and they're many amazing(unprintable, scatalogical) stories about her, but my favorite is about the former drummer, Teresa Taylor, who is the sister of the other drummer, King Coffey, as well as being Gibby's ex.
She has some form of induced epilepsy(or stroke or something like that), and when she went to the doctor he asked her, "Have you had any exposure to flashing lights or loud noises?". She replied, "You have no idea...."
...simply the most boring, washed up, has-been, never-was, transparent, hypocritical fraud in the history of "alternative" music.
Except for those gated community soldiers; those Ferrari revolutionaries; those angry young millionaires; Yawn, er, Rage, Against The Machine.
Peace, love, brotherhood, power to the people, pay the bill and buy our T-shirt. That tiresome crap's been around for 35 years and anyone, other than middle-class teenagers whose parents and teachers never told them that they didn't need to be ashamed for not being born in a slum, that falls for it oughta be ashamed of themselves.
Ralph Nader, Pat Buchanan, Susan Sarandon and the Pope fall into this catergory, as well.
At least you know exactly what you're getting with Korn and Bill Clinton.
Jello Biafra never pretended to be anything else! You can't call him a hypocrite.
I also like Rage Against the Machine.
I was also a middle class teenager.
It's just music, man. You like it or you don't. Don't read too much into it because there's nothing there.
Next you'll probably tell us that Bob Dylan was different from Rage or Jello Biafra and the rest of the Dead Kennedys, or the Sex Pistols. He wasn't. He was in it for the money like the rest of them.
The difference is that the Sex Pistols and Dead Kennedys NEVER PRETENDED to be anything but money making enterprises. (Malcom McLaren? Gimme a break!)
But for some strange reason everyone thinks that Bob Dylan was REAL and GENUINE. It's the other way around! He is the only REAL hypocrite in the bunch!
I can't speak for Rage. I like their music but know nothing else about them.
-SmoothB-
"Next you'll probably tell us that Bob Dylan was different from Rage or Jello Biafra and the rest of the Dead Kennedys, or the Sex Pistols. "
Bob Dylan is different. He has less musical talent than any of the other bands you list.
"Jello Biafra never pretended to be anything else! "
Have you read any recent interviews with Jello Biafra?
"I was also a middle class teenager. "
Me too! :)
"It's just music, man. You like it or you don't. Don't read too much into it because there's nothing there. "
Tell that to Rolling Stone magazine..... :)
Heh heh good post - I agree, Dylan DOES have less musical talent.
What has Jello Biafra been saying in interviews? I know he has been doing the college-lecture-circuit thing for the last 15 years or so, but I don't know what he's been saying.
Rolling Stone knows its just music, too - they just cater to all the millions out there who haven't figured it out yet.
-SmoothB-
"What has Jello Biafra been saying in interviews? I know he has been doing the college-lecture-circuit thing for the last 15 years or so, but I don't know what he's been saying. "
The usual "There should be a law that no one can earn more than 100K a year and anything over that should go in a general fund" crap. What's really funny is that an old schoolmate of Biafra and East Bay Ray's is apparently following him around and sends scathing rebuttal letters to local alternative/underground newspapers/'zines that print interviews with Biafra.
"Rolling Stone knows its just music, too - they just cater to all the millions out there who haven't figured it out yet."
Rolling Stone is wearisome, except for PJ O'Rourke and the occasional true-crime story.
And the Britney/Christina photos.
PJ rules.
I had a few beers with him last year in Tarrytown, NY. He was a the dinner speaker at a seminar I attended. The guy is even more hilarious in real life, and really SHORT. I had always pictured him as a big, strapping Irish lush.
But he is really just a hilarious, little Irish lush.
You've got some points but I can't agree with you on all counts here.
Rage Against the Machine's album should have been called Commodify Your Discontent.
Jello Biafra is just a touch (ok a hell of a lot more than a touch) righteous. Not only does he lecture, he does it with a smirk.
The one I've got to disagree with you about is Ralph Nader. He is the real deal. I'm not going to go into a long defense about him and what he has accomplished. Simply, his life (like everyone elses) is his testimony. I guess we disagree about what that has been a testimony of.
Please no flame wars regarding the election and "wasted votes" or "lazy leftists" etc. I know the general political leaning of this forum, like most poker tables I've sat at, is somewhere to the right of the John Birch Society.
Setting the politics aside, I don't think that honest commitment to a cause deserves scorn. While many of the people named are in my opinion posturing or compensating for some reason, this does not equate to mean that any person involved in altruistic activity is a self-hating, duplicitous hypocrite. Examples abound: Andrew Vachhs, Stephen Levine etc.
On a final note, I'm not Catholic and I think this is one of the better Popes to come along.
Alternative Tentacles is one of the better independent record labels around today. At least give Jello some credit for that...
True, but I wish they'd release the Butthole Surfers' "Brown Reason To Live" on CD someday.
I agree with you about Andrew Vachhs(sp?).
Couldn't agree more. Actually, for refreshing honesty and realism, Gene Simmons of Kiss is great. To paraphrase, he said something like:
"I wish these pompous rock star/activists would just shut up and get laid, whcih is the reason the became a rock star. Who cares what the F**k they have to say. They strap on a guitar and all of a sudden they think they are experts about the environment and politics."
Something like that, but you get the point.
Another thing. I love the way idiots like Rage Against the Machine are concerned about every damn "Right" in the world except for the right for a working, upper-middle class American to keep more than half of what he earns.
I will be in Las Vegas 1/5-1/14, both to play in the Carnivale(assuming it's held, I'll just play Orleans dailies otherwise, assuming their room is still open) and to see the survivng members of Thin Lizzy play at Pink E's on 1/13.
All e-mails from Thin Lizzy's management and fan club, as well as eyewitness reports from European shows, assure me that the show is well worth seeing, not just a pitiful cash-in with one original member ala Foghat or Ratt.
Rumor has it that the Carnivale event has been cancelled. I noticed in the CardPlayer that there was a big tourney in Reno during the same dates, so I presume that event has replaced the Carnivale.
Figures. Reno in January(or anytime, FTM)? Not me.
I dont see how they can call themselves Thin Lizzy since Phil Lynott (sp?) is long dead. I mean he only wrote and sang the songs. Personally, I think it is a joke that they are calling themselves Thin Lizzy. After Mick Jagger dies, would you go see a band calling themselves The Rolling Stones, no matter if Keith, Ron, etc., were in it and think you had really seen The Stones?
The other band members co-wrote many of their songs, esp. on the later albums. Phil Lynott was the leader, but Thin Lizzy was not a one man band, like the Smashing Pumpkins or Credence Clearwater. He was a good bassist, but from a sheer musical standpoint the band can function without him, unlike, say, Led Zeppelin without John Bonham. Of course, his vocal and songwriting styles can never be duplicated.
Also, Lynott's widow and mother, as well as the band's management, fan club, and all past members, have given their blessing. Brian Downey has chosen not to participate for health reasons, but I don't think that Tommy Aldridge is a bad replacement(the tour bassist is an old pre-Lizzy bandmate of John Sykes). Sykes apparently is doing an adequate job on the vocals(better on some songs than others), and I'd rather have him do it than some wannabe/soundalike who got hired temporarily.
Phil gets ample tribute during the shows, and anything that publicizes Thin Lizzy is fine by me, esp. when you consider that 99% of the world thinks they begin and end with "Boys Are Back In Town". Don't think that The Sykes-Gorham-Wharton Band has the same ring.
As for the Stones, Keith has said that if he, Mick or Charlie aren't there, it's not the Stones. And the next album the Stones make or concert they play where there's not more sidemen than "band members" will be their first in well over twenty years. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em, but they're more of an idea or an exhibition now, than an actual 'band'.
I agree with your assessment of the Stones, especially the "they are not a band but an exhibition". Still cant agree with your take on Thin Lizzy though. I was and have been a big fan of theirs, long before and after the "Jailbreak" album and boys r back. Lets be honest, of course the widow, mom, fan club, other bandmates, managment, etc., are going to endorse this. One simple reason-money. Thin Lizzy is not Thin Lizzy without Phil being there (in spirit doesnt count) period. But thats only my opinion and feeling, if you go to the show and enjoy it, then thats great for you. I was a big Clash fan, and recently saw Joe Strummer in concert. In addition to doing songs from his new album, he did a fair amount of old Clash classics. It was great, but still was a far cry from the Clash. Granted, he wasnt trying to be or calling himself the Clash, but I am a purist and if the major memebers of an original band arent there, its just not that close to the original, try as we might to wish it was. Sorry for rambling, bottom line is enjoy the show as I am sure it will be good and entertaining. I would like to hear your thoughts on it after you see them. As I said, I am a TL fan also.
That's what I call Las Vegas. REO Speedwagon, Thin Lizzy, Richard Marx, and other such bustouts.
Saw Roy Cooke in Vegas last time I was there, stalking the tables at the Bellagio looking for a good game. Now there is one guy who has seen a lot of flops in his day. That hunched back and shoulders looked almost painfull. If the end result of a lifetime of playing poker is to have the physique of Quasimoto, I think I need to find another line of work.
shit you guys are on a roll tonite.....lmao..
maybe thats why they call them rounders...
jg
Just to set the record straight, I have not read the above post. If I read it, my guess is that I would be forced to delete it. I also have told Sklansky not to look at it. Plus he doesn't have the ablilty to delete anyway.
.
Heh, at BARGE '99, I headed over to Caesars to check out the action at the World Chess Open. Basically all the best players were there except for K and K. And I thought the exact same thing you just mentioned! Some of these guys were 21 and coiled up like a Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus record left in the hot Arizona sun.
JG
Multiply and Divide
The scene. Bellagios Poker room. It’s early evening. The room is filled with noisy poker players. In walks Multiply. Divide is standing by the high limit podium. Multiply walks up to him and the conversation begins.
Multiply: Hi Divide,
Divide: Hi,
Multiply: How’s the game.
Divide: Looks good. I’m number one on the list.
Multiply: The 30-60 looks good too. I see Cooke in the game. He’s good at game selection. I’ll play there.
Divide: Yeah, Hey I got one for you. What is x + y raised to the 6th power divided by...
Multiply: Wait a minute! Hold on. We’ve known each other for what seems an infinity now. Every time we get together we talk about the same thing. x + y + z .. etc, etc, etc.. Look. we’re both intelligent men. Why can’t we talk about something else, just once.
Divide: You’re right. I know it. I know it. It’s my fault. But you know me. I get these things in my head and I just got to get them out. You’re the only one that really understands me. I tried telling that fricken Vince Lepore and the dunce just stares at me and doesn’t have a clue about what I’m saying. John Feeney understands the math but thinks I need a shrink.
Multiply: I know that Divide and I understand. But just once can’t we talk about something else. Raising x to the nth power is fine but shish we gotta talk about real life once in a while.
Divide: O.K., you are so right. That’s why our relationship is so solid after all these years. We understand each other. O.K so .. I got it . I got it .. How about ... square roots! Hey, Hey, where are you going? Hey...
Vince
good one ....lmao..
jg
xyz
n/t
Ok, it's pretty much a sure bet than everyone here can read. After all, this is a text-only forum, yada yada. And most people here have probably read at least some of the 2+2 publications.
But what do all of you out there read in your spare time?
Here is a brief list of some of my own personal favorite novels:
One Hundred Years of Solitude - Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Slaughterhouse Five - Kurt Vonnegut
Cat's Cradle - Kurt Vonnegut
Catch 22 - Joseph Heller
The Grapes of Wrath - John Steinbeck
A Prayer for Owen Meany - John Irving
The Mayor of Casterbridge - Thomas Hardy
Most overrated novels of all time list:
Catcher in the Rye - J. D. Salinger
anything by Michael Crichton
-SmoothB-
SmoothB,
Here are a few of mine listed in no particular order. And unlike anything likely to be listed by my friend John Cole, most people may have actually heard of them or even read them.
Lonesome Dove - Larry McMurtry
Sophie's Choice - William Styron
The Accidental Tourist - Anne Tyler
Tinker, Tailer, Soldier, Spy The Honourable Schoolboy Smiley's People - all of the above form a trilogy by John le Carre but read The Spy Who Came In From the Cold if you want to sample his writing in one book. Le Carre is head and shoulders above Robert Ludlum.
Play It As It Lays - Joan Didion
Anna Karenina - Leo Tolstoy
Bonfire of the Vanities - Tom Wolfe
Gorky Park - Martin Cruz Smith
Presummed Innocent - Scott Turow (he is so much better than John Grisham it makes me puke to think Grisham sells better).
The Sun Also Rises - Hemmingway
The Joy Luck Club - Amy Tam
If I wasn't so lazy and could get up and look at my bookcase I would probably find a few more.
Regards,
Rick
Rick, love the Le Carre choice. one of my all time favorites. Also enjoy the old time pulp mystery writers like Hammett, Chandler and Thompson. Contemporary favorites are in the same style. Writers like Marcia Muller and Bill Pronzini Once in a while I read an actual piece of literature just to keep my brain from melting. The past two were Franny and Zooey and Les Miserables.
Wonder what the last book Poker Veteran read was?
Also enjoy the old time pulp mystery writers like Hammett, Chandler and Thompson.
Who's Thompson? My favorite pulp writers are Tolstoy and Chuck Willeford. Williford's Miami Blues and New Hope for the Dead are both worth a read. His book Cockfighter makes my short list for greatest novels of the 20th century, and is one of the funniest gambling books ever written IMHO.
Big time noir riter. very dark and ominous works.
His best known works include AFter Dark My Sweet, The Killer Inside Me and The Grifters.
Thanks. Sounds like somebody I'd like. I'll check him out.
if you can't find him in a used store, I believe he has a number of his works printed in the trade paper section.
The Killer Inside Me was definitely his best, although I liked "After Dark, My Sweet" quite a bit as well. Lou Ford was terrific.
As I understand it, he wrote The Killer Inside Me in something like 18 days.
The movie will be out some time soon - :-)
I haven't read a novel since 1975 when I got through Atlas Shrugged in 2 days. Actually I have gotten through a few since then but that was the last I can remember.
Hell I can barely get through one of Briers or Fossle mans Long posts with out taking a nap and I am really interested in poker.
Oh I did read Rush Limbaughs books in the early 90's.
But I am just a little Italian kid from Chicago who has more "important' things to do these days.
Movies I see all the new ones and re-rent them when they come out cuz I forgot I saw them, there is poker then there is poker and oh yeah the kids in college got to look after them and of course the wife takes a bit of attention too but I think she wants me to move back to Arizona.
Wolf Willow Wallace Stegner
Stranger in a Strange Land Robert Heinlein
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest Ken Kesey
Sometimes A Great Notion Ken Kesey
Main Street Sinclair Lewis
Walden Henrey David Thoreau
On The Road Jack Kerouac
Crime and Punishment Fyodor Dostoevsky
Atlas Shrugged Ayn Rand
Monkey Wrench Gang Edward Abbey
ED I,
I read Walden as a novel, too. Is this what you meant?
Anyway, a few:
Flaubert's Parrot by Julian Barnes
Steelwork by Gilbert Sorrentino
Play It As It Lays by Joan Didion
Genoa: A Telling of Wonders by Paul Metcalf, who is also Herman Melville's great grandson
Moby Dick by Herman Melville
Narrative of A. Gordon Pym by Poe
A Fan's Notes by Fred Exley
The Great Gatsby by Fitzgerald
Junkie by Burroughs (No, it's not about John Feeney)
If on a winter's night a traveler by Italo Calvano
Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison
Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
John, Walden always comes to mind when I think about books and I did not give any thought to whether it belonged on this list. You have piqued my curiosity with your comment and question. Care to elaborate?
ED I,
I was lucky because I didn't read Walden until grad school when I was ready for it. I see Walden as a novel, with the "I" of the novel as its main character. That is, for me, and I'm not really alone in looking at Walden this way, there is a distance between the real Henry David Thoreau and the "I" in Walden. Thoreau, the author, compresses time and reorders events and situations, in much the same way as a historical novelist, say Michael Sharma(SP?), writes about the CiviL War.
Not only is Walden an utterly serious book, it's also a great comic novel at times, much like Sterne's Tristram Shandy. Note how the puns start rolling with the title: Walden = "Walled-in." I think if you try reading it like a novel, you'll find you enjoy this work even more.
Regards,
John
John-- Thank God I finally found someone else who thinks "Song of Solomon" is Morrison's best.
Others to consider--
"Madame Bovary" by Flaubert
"For Whom the Bell Tolls" by Hemingway
Gatsby is a no-brainer. I'm totally with you.
"Cities of the Plain" by Cormac McCarthy
"Desolation Angels" by Jack Kerouac
"As I Lay Dying" by Faulkner
Almost everything by Faulkner, actually.
"Heart of Darkness" by Conrad, although some people don't count this as a novel.
"Double Indemnity" by James M. Cain
Just a few:
A Man in Full - Tom Wolfe Microserfs - Douglas Coupland Heart of Darkness - Joseph Conrad The Stand - Stephen King All of Robert Parker's Spenser novels The Moonstone - William Wilke Collins Neuromancer - William Gibson Anything written by James Ellroy, especially White Jazz and American Tabloid
Great gambling-related novel - Balling the Jack by Frank Baldwin.
Just read my first James Ellroy novel, American Tabloid.
Ellroy is the most cynical author I have ever read. Who was supposed to be the protagonist in that story?
By the end, I wanted everyone to get killed. Fortunately, most of them did.
almost anything by Charles Dickens
Pride and Prejudice, Emma, Northanger's Abbey, Sense and Sensibility by Jane Austen
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, Ulysses by James Joyce
War and Peace, Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
Remembrance of Things Past by Marcel Proust
Light Years by James Salter
The Sun Also Rises, For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway
almost anything by Yukio Mishima
Snow Falling on Cedars by ? (my copy is buried)
Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll
almost anything by Robert Louis Stevenson (Moonfleet by J. Meade Falkner is in similar vein)
Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane (also: long short stories like The Open Boat)
Moby Dick by Melville
Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift
The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence
The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera
North to Freedom (book for older kids, can't access and can't recall the author)
The White Mountains, City of Gold and Lead, The Pool of Fire, trilogy by John Christopher
The Lathe of Heaven by Ursula K. Leguin (see the movie too)
nothing beats A Confederacy Of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole. Nothing is even close. I seldom laugh out loud while reading and there are passages in this book that would make me laugh so hard I had to take five minute breaks before continuing.
Great Book. Is it John Kennedy Toole?, I coulda sworn it was William Kennedy Toole. Guess I'll have to look when I get home.
It's John Kennedy Toole. You may be thinking of William Kennedy Smith.
You are correct. It is Ignatius J. Reilly, though, right?
I heard that Stephen Soderburg is working on a movie. It's fortunate that John Candy is dead, or we might have had to endure him in the lead. Let's hope thay are more creative than using John Goodman.
Rumor has it that John Belushi was supposed to star as Ignatius J. Reilly in the film adaptation of the book. Personally, I think Wayne Knight (Newman from Seinfeld) could pull it off.
HIGH BROW
The Brothers Karamozov Crime and Punishment - Fyodor Dosteyevky
Quo Vadis?- Henryk Sienkiewicz
With Fire and Sword/The Deluge/Fire in the Steppe (The "Polish Trilogy")- Sienkeiwicz (actually not that high brow)
Les Miserables- Victor Hugo
Don Quixote- Cervantes
The Odyssey- Homer (ok, so it was really a long poem)
LOW BROW
The Long Wait- Mickey Spillane
One Lonely Night- Mickey Spillane
Fool's Die- Mario Puzo
Cat Chaser- Elmore Leonard
Get Shorty- Elmore Leonard
The Stand- Stephen King
MEDIUM BROW
The Sirens of Titan- Kurt Vonnegut
The Sun Also Rises- Ernest Hemingway
The Fountainhead- Ayn Rand
The Count of Monte Cristo- Alexander Dumas
Confederacy of Dunces- William Kennedy
please stand up?
Is he Mason?
No, he's not. He is a retired Japanese man who asked us if he could remain anonymous, and we honored his request.
His pic on the book does not look japanese
There is no picture on the book.
If memory serves correct (which it may not), there's a picture of a middle aged white man on the back of the book. At least the one that I have has it. Maybe I'm thinking about the wrong book. I'll check when I get home from work.
my mistake. I think I was thinking of Ray Michael B
I am considering going to the World Poker Challenge at the Reno Hilton in January. I looked up the tournament listing on pokerpages.com and they list room rates at $25. Has anyone stayed there before. What places are there to play poker and what are the limits and games. If I fly in, should I rent a car, or is it easy to get around.
Mark,
I have had a few really pleasant experiences in Reno.
The Hilton is right next to the airport and town is just a few miles away no rental car needed. The hotel is 1st class and the poker spread is good - during tournaments Barb and Becky (at least the last couple of tournaments I have been to) do a great job with the satellites (which I know you like).
I give it a big thumbe up.
I might even go in January. I am itchen to get out of town.
Mike
Rounder,
I'm going to wait until the end of next month. If they don't cancel, I'll book it for the first weekend of events. I used to like to book these things in advance, but it appears there have been a lot of cancellations of tournaments lately, so I'd hate to get stuck with an airline ticket.
The only non-generic game in Reno is usually the NL at the El Dorado, but the NL action usually moves to the host casino during tournaments. Of all the places in Reno, I'd say the R. Hilton is the most "self contained." You shouldn't need a car really.
JG
x
I was at the Reno Hilton a couple of weekends ago during their Pot of Gold Tournament.
A hotel room is a hotel room. But you can't beat this for $25. The casino and hotel with all of the eating places is great. I was very pleased and impressed. Very nice and friendly staff in the hotel/casino/poker room.
I didn't really like the tournament area being right out on the casino floor, but they said they were going to take out the slots in that area for the January event.
It's hard for me to plan that far in the future, but if I can, I will be there.
JohnnyD
Yeah, you can't beat that room rate. Now, the hard part. Finding a reasonable non-stop flight that does not cost an arm and a leg.
Non-stop?? WHat's that?
I am lucky to get by with just one connection. But I will be there also.
Diane
Diane,
I'm spoiled. I don't fly anywhere unless it's non-stop. Period. American flys non-stop to Reno. What do you do? Fly out of Milwaukee?
Mark- Milwaukee is 2 hours from home.
I fly Green Bay to Minneapolis and then MN to where ever.
I don't want the long drive at the start and end of my trip each time. Especially in the winter. So I deal with the hassles of connections.
Too bad my husband won't move to some place more poker friendly.
Diane
Your husband plays poker, right? Well, I'll see you again in January.
My husband doesn't gamble a lick. He doesn't play cards or like casinos.
I am on my own....
Diane
It is our policy not to allow sales on these forums. I suggest that you contact Howard at Gambler's Book club where they buy and sell used books. I believe that they usually give 25% of the retail value.
Mason,
Or he can try eBay.
Regards,
Rick
And did Sklansky ever get his $300 first edition Hold'em book?
Erin,
I believe I was the one who mentioned to David that I might have the original $1.95 edition. He then offered $300 to anyone who could produce it in decent condition (if memory serves me).
In my case I remembered it was given away years ago (after I got another edition) to either one of two friends. One is John Cole who now posts here on a regular basis. John couldn't find it but then again he has thousands of books (maybe look harder John). Another is our mutual friend Andy. He has five kids and is lucky if he can find his socks in his house.
In fairness to Mason, the context was different. David mentioned the offer at the end of a thread regarding the history of some of his earlier work (or something of that nature). In this case a man has entered a lead post openly hawking an almost complete collection of everything that is sold on this sight. Not only is it a bit offensive, but it undermines one of the purposes of this sight, which is to sell books.
Mr. Bellamy should post this type of notice on RGP and/or perhaps use eBay.
Regards,
Rick
To those who really enjoy music of stirring proportions, may I suggest Sarahs new cd.Its well engineered and beautiful mix of opera ,and new age. It also contains two very old dynamic standards....Whiter Shade Of Pale..&...Scarboro affair... I would say the opera is not the traditional type that we would expect... Absolutely breathtaking melodies .. Trying to get tickets to her toronto concert... The tragedy of it all it likely will attain little aclaim simply cause its non commercial.
jg
Non-commercial? For what it's worth, it's at no.4 at the Virgin Records store at the Forum Shops here in Las Vegas.
At last count, there were at least 51 reviews on Amazon (almost all favorable). Anyway, I'm going to sample a few songs form Napster then go out and probalby BUY the CD. I already have the CDs Diva and Eden and think she is terrific. If you get to see her on PBS check it out. Two years ago I had never even heard of her (I've never listened to or been to Broadway musicals until recently - she was famous for Phantom of the Opera I think).
BTW, she was the lady who sang "Time To Say Goodbye" with Bocelli. With her hair down she has a totally different and cool look on her PBS special.
Regarding how Napster can stimulate record sales I quote the following from an Amazon reviewer:
"I think this is one of Sarah Brightman's most fantastic CDs ever! I downloaded the songs from Napster but I bought the CD as well because I want the paperwork inside and feel I should support her because I'm an avid fan."
Regards,
Rick
Picked up a cd for my daughter(17), her friends and her loved it, thanks.
I think these were/are the last great college rock band. Every album and every song and every album absolutley kick ass, even "Bossanova." Here are some of my favorite tunes:
Bone Machine. Where is my Mind. The Holiday Song. Cactus. Gouge Away. There Goes my Gun. This Monkey Gone to Heaven. Debaser. The Happening. Wave of Mutilation. Silver. Hey. Is She Weird. Dig for Fire. Wave of Mutilation (surf version). Planet of Sound. U-Mass.
Its tough to pick a favorite, but I think Planet of Sound is the hardest, and best of the lot. Maybe the most DENSE chunk of rock music ever. Couldn't cut it with a blowtorch or industrial diamond.
Another Pixies-related note. Check out the movie "Pump Up the Volume." It has the surf version of Wave of Mutilation, and stars Samantha Mathis, who looks absolutely killer. Where were girls like this when I was in high school?
I can honestly say, without hyperbole, that featuring the song "Where Is My Mind" in Fight Club and omitting it from the soundtrack is the biggest tragedy in the history of the world.
Yes, the pixies are amazing.
As trivia, which great song/artist is also in "Fight Club" and is not on the album?
No interest I guess. It's Tom Waits, forget the title, but since noone is interested I'm not going to bother to find it.
Apparently not much interest in the Pixies, either. I hated that movie Fight Club, but the trailer was awesome since it had Pixies. There are some cool Pixies web sites. Most of their hardcore fans are pretty wierd.
But I'm not.
Wow, a posting about my favorite band, on my favorite forum! What a treat!
Incidentally, did anyone see Frank Black and the Catholics in concert? Kind of a let down. No Pixies songs were performed. I did enjoy seeing Frank up close with an audience of about 150 people tho.
BTW, it should be no surprise that Where Is My Mind didn't appear on the soundtrack. The movie was almost entirely The Dust Brothers will just a couple of extra songs. This is standard practice. (And I LOVED the movie Fight Club - one of the best films made in the last 10 years.)
After all, did any of Morris Day and the Time's songs appear on the Purple Rain sountrack? Heck no, even though they had at least 3 songs in the movie.
Why isn't the song I Bleed on anyone's favorites list? Or Tame? I think Doolittle is one of THE BEST albums ever recorded. Bossanova is ok but no where near as good.
I still have never heard Come On Pilgrim - the only one I don't have.
-SmoothB-
I Bleed is great. So is Tame. Doolittle hardly has a soft spot on the entire album. The first time I heard it I thought it was a little scary.
I haven't seen Frank Black and the Catholics as I hardly ever go to concerts since I moved to NYC. I saw him in Boston just after the Pixies broke up when he was supporting his first solo album, which was a very good one. He didn't sing any Pixies songs then either.
When Pixies first broke (sort of) in the early 1990s, I saw them several times in Atlanta at small venues. I was right next to the stage at a place that forget the name of- the one that is in an old mansion that has several different floors with two different types of club music, and then live acts on the top. I also saw them at the Orpheum in Boston. It was funny to watch this band while sitting down. I don't think they are that great live. Your classic college rock act of 75 minutes of music, played almost like the studio version. A couple of decent twists on Where is My Mind? and Wave of Mutilation. I did get a really cool tee with the Pixies logo (with the wing on the P) and a funny looking spaceman on back. This was circa Planet of Sound.
I still think Planet of Sound is their best single, and maybe the best rock single by anyone in the 1990s.
I also liked the Breeders album alot. The cover of Happiness is a Warm Gun on Pod is awesome. The Safari EP is fabulous, too. The song Safari is another contender for the best song of the 90s
Its pretty funny that we got into a disagreement in a previous thread. Pixies fans shouldn't be arguing. Common interest in music is much more important than reaching consensus on how to play a NLH hand.
I still hated Fight Club, though.
Michael,
I checked out a few of the songs via Napster. I think I would love these guys if I was 21 again and in school. But I'm 46 and starting to feel it.
I just listened to Sara Brightman sing Scarborough Fair. That is my speed these days.
Oh well,
Old Man Rick
Here are a few for old man Rick. I am getting there myself:
Kevin Salem (Soma City)
Lucinda Williams (anything, but especially Car Wheels on a Gravel Road)
Shelby Lynne (I am Shelby Lynne)
Steve Earle (Feel Alright)
Also Graham Parker has gotten older and mellower, too. He has aged along with you, so if you liked Squeezing Out Sparks when you were younger, you should love Mona Lisa's Sister and Human Soul now.
Peter Case (formerly of the Plimsouls) is another one of my favorites that might appeal to you.
If you like Lone Justice, then of course you should check out Maria McKee's solo albums. There is also a cool Victoria Williams compilation from 1993 where Maria McKee sings a great cover of "Sweet Relief". This a a neat song to start thet day and put a smile on your face if you are hung over or in a bad mood.
Oh yeah, also don't forget Robbie Robertson (formerly of the Band). His first two solo albums (I forget the names, might have just been self titled) were terrific. Look for the one with the song "Somewhere Down the Crazy River" and "Broken Arrow."
A former Replacements fan probably already has Paul Westerbergs solo albums. He has aged (surprisingly) gracefully. Chris Mars also had a solo album in 1994 or 1995 that was very good.
Good luck, and I would love some counter-suggestions.
I'll look through my cds tonight to see if I have forgotten anything.
Michael,
My brother back east has an enormous collection of music and usually makes a few tapes as Christmas gifts. So I get to listen to quite a bit of stuff but now I find MP3s and CDs make me too lazy to deal with tapes. And as bad as FM is in Los Angeles, talk radio on AM is great (e.g., Dennis Prager, Larry Elder).
I'll try to look up some of your selections above that I don't have on Napster. And once again, if I like it I’ll get the CD.
I already have Maria McKee's solo albums. When I saw her twice over a two-year period fronting Lone Justice in Lupo's Heartbreak Hotel in Providence about 14 years ago (time is flying) she just blew the audience and me away. Lupo’s was mostly a stand and watch the band type of club but had a slightly older crowd (i.e., no mosh pit). Over the years I got to see a lot of great artists there including Richard Thompson, Dave Johansson (sp?) as himself and as Buster Poindexter, and Big Country. I always liked original music in small clubs and was never much for arena rock. Another great Providence club was The Living Room. One time I saw Greg Allman during his down period during a snowstorm and only about twenty people showed up. Perhaps the best band I saw there was Modern English and perhaps The Feelies.
Here in Los Angeles I get to the House of Blues now and then. I saw the Bodeans there and would recommend their stuff to most. That club is a great venue for watching music in just the right size setting.
A few picks you may not be familiar with include Bruce Cockburn (best songs IMO – If I Had A Rocket Launcher and Lovers in a Dangerous Time which can be sampled on Napster). I like an arty band originally from my hometown called Throwing Muses. Their first album was breathtaking but Amazon doesn’t list it. But you can check out the rest of their stuff. When we saw Cowboy Junkies last year a band called Over the Rhine warmed them up. We bought their CD Good Dog Bad Dog and it gets a lot of play. For a kick ass album, try Social Distortion with Mike Ness. They have a punk sound I like.
I never watched much MTV or VH1 but did catch an “anti-video” by The Replacements. Apparently they didn’t want to do one so all it encompassed was a static shot of a guy on a sofa shot from behind (you could only see his arm) and one of the speakers with the cover removed. The guy puffed on a smoke and the speaker cones moved. That was it! Anyway, I’m glad there was no MTV when I was growing up. I want to evoke my own images of a song.
Enough BS for now. I got to get back to fine-tuning my game. Thanks for the advice.
Regards.
Rick
Rick,
Over the last few years I've bought most of Richard Thompson's new stuff and a few of the older cd's. Do you have Walking on a Wire? If not, rush out and get it. Lupo's was also the place where Richard and Linda Thompson last performed together before their divorce--they got into a fight on stage that night.
BTW, remember seeing Bonnie Raitt in Newport during one of her down periods? I think there were maybe a hundred people there. What did we pay? Was it about three bucks?
John
I hate keeping records. I hate it with a passion. But Mason told me "ya gotta do it, pilgrim". I think it was Mason. Maybe it was John Wayne. Doesn't matter I'm comprimising. I'm heading to Foxwoods tomorrow and I will keep a log. But I'm gonna do the log now so that I won't be bothered with during my poker session. Smart, huh? And I'm gonna share it with all of you that like to read trip reports. So let's get started.
We'll start at the beginning. This morning, I mean tomorrow morning I got up and S,S&S (military guys know the 3 S's) at around 9 a.m. I had to bring my sister to a meeting at ten so I did't get on the road until around 11. On the 2 hour trip I thought about poker. I suddenly realized that I was heading to Foxworthies (he's a comedian isn't he), make that Foxwood's to play stud. Seven Card Stud. I had't played stud in a while maybe three months. I've been out west playing only Holdem. I must have been crazy but that didn't stop me. I went right up to the HiGh LiMiT podium and put my name on the 15-30 stud list. I picked up a copy of Card Player, noticed that it no longer had a picture of sexy Linda Johnson on the inside cover and dissapointedly tossed it into the S can. (yes, same as one of the morning S's) While I was waiting I ran into John Cole and Mary. John was playing $5-10 Holdem. Winning $1,000,000 and complaining about bad beats, as usual. Mary, was playing $3-6 winning $2,000,000 and told John that if he played better and stopped complaining he could be winning big also. Paul Feeney was there with his Green Bay packer hat in his lap. I think he was to embarrassed to wear it. Him, how do you think I felt with this stupid Patriots cap. Fossilman was there too. Preachen away at anyone and everyone that would listen. "Why the EV of that play is ... and the correct strategy in that situation... and if you call too often with that..." Nothing had changed. I was at Foxwoods. I was Home. (Ugh)
I finally got into a gaime, right after I saw Fossilman pounding on the table and at the same time yelling: "Don't you know who I am? I'm Fossilman! I taught S&M everthing they know" (Not one of the morning S's). I just shook my head and sat down in the game.
It was a good game. A couple of local weak tight players. A couple of solid players, an expert (that be me) and a few money givers. I played weak tight for the first hour. No steals. Won one small pot and was down a little. ($50) I wasn't worried. I knew that I could make that up easily in this game. I loosened up a little during the next hour but things didn't go so well. I got cracked with split Aces when a maniac made 2 small pair on the river. Then hidden Kings went down. Raised with a big flush draw that never got there. After 2 hours I was down a rack $500. Now I was a little annoyed. But I had been there before. I wasn't worried. Two hours later I hadn't gotten out of my seat. I hadn't won a hand. I was down $1500. But I said too myself "I've been there before" I wasn't worried. The next 2 hours I lost another $500. Now I was boiling. Nice hand asshole I said under my breath to that godamn loser sitting accross from me. Wait, I've been there before I said. So I wasn't worried. After the next hour I was down $2500. I went to the john and kicked myself in the ass. I refused to tip the toilet guy in fact I took a quarter I found on the sink next to his tip dish and put it in my pocket. You can't take care of your money you don't deserve it, I thought.
I hurried back to the table now ready to kill. I had $500 left and expected that to go immediately. Then a miracle I won a hand. Then another and another. Within the next hour I had won back my $2500 and was up $6.50. I thought I'm tired. I know the game is good. But screw Sklansky I'm not playing any more. After all I had played 6 hours and was up $6.50. $.50 more than my average. I was happy. So I got in my car and drove back to Amesbury. On the way I thought "Life is Beautiful". It doesn't get any better than that!
Phew! I'm glad I got that out of the way. Now I can go and play poker with out worring about a log! Thanks Mason.
Vince.
Reading hat was better than sitting in a sling seat on a C-130 with afterburners at 45 degrees (angle, know what I mean?) with a Coors (not light) spilling on my pants and smoking a _________
Did I really say that? I meant a Camel
Vince,
Nice to see you coming back to the raft again, Huck. I'm sure after three months of playing and some personal instruction and encouragment from the high priced talent, you'll have a justification for calling with Q6o from the BB :-)
John
O.K. Today is here and yesterday's gone which was tomorrow in the first post of this thread.
I arrived or got to Foxwood's around 2 p.m. I got or gotten or had given to me a seat in the 15-30 Must Move Seven Card stud game. If you or had you read the first post in this thread you will know that I predicted that I would be $50 behind after or when or by the time an hour of playing was gone by or finished or done with or over. After 50 minutes of playe I was up about or approxametly $110 and thought or belived that my phophecy would be null and void. I was sitting in the 5 seat and there was a cold funnel of air blowing down my neck, The 7 seat became available and I jumped into it. A new player sat in the 5 seat. The next hand brought or was dealt or went like this. The 2 seat brought it in with the 7c's. All folded to the 5 seat, the seat I just Voluntarily Vacated (VV). VV raised showing the Ace of spades. 6 seat folded. I had the Q hearts on my or as my door card. I looked at my hole cards and spied the Ah,Kh. For a moment I thought I was playing Holdem and was going to raise but decided to just smooth call, hoping to entice the loose eight, and 1 seats and the bring in to call. The 8 and 1 seat folded but the bring in called. BTW I put the raiser on a flush draw and figured I had the best hand. On fourth street VV caught the 9s I caught the 3h and the bfing in caught the 9d. VV bet I raised, the bring in called and the A called. I was hoping that either the bring in folded or VV would reraise. But if they both called that would be fine also. On fifth VV bought the 6s, I got or was given a blank and the bring in was blanked. VV bet I called and the bring in folded. On sixth VV picked up the Ac and I was blaked. VV bet, I called. I was 90 percent certain I was facing a flush. Maybe two pair. On the river VV checked! I looked at my card. It was the or looked like, no it was, the Jh! I now had the A,K,Q,J,3 of hearts. Without hesitation I was check raised after betting. I was about as close as Mason is to David to raising when I sheepishly called and said to the 5 seat "Got a full house huh?" "No" he said and shook is head. That's when I said or uttered or shot my mouth off with a stupendously stupid remark. "Well then I have a flush and you can't beat it." "I don't have a full house I have a straight flush" he siad or I heard as he turned over or exposed or whatevered the Qs,Js,Ts. I was stunned as the dealer pushed him the pot. After 1 hour I was exactly $50 behind. Oh! mercy.
This is getting longer or more than I first thought so I'm abridging the rest. I went down $200 and was steaming when I entered a pot I probably shouldn't have and won it and was up $. I took a break ao went for a walk and spied John Cole and Mary. He was only winning $00 not a million at 6-12 Holdem and so he took a break and we went to eat. Foxwoods has changed there low limit Holdem structure. 2-4, 6-12, 9-18. What's with that.
After the break I was mentally beat. I quit or stopped and took a 2 hour break. Went over to the Mohegan Sun. Got into a 20-40 stud game. The reason I am telling or relaying this to you is not because I won $721 in this game. I played a hand in this game where I was dealt or made a SPADE flush on the river. My opponet, one of two true maniacs in the game made a ROYAL FLUSH in HEARTS. Sound familiar? Spdes, hearts, straight flush. What gives? Thank god or Mason and David because I played well enough to overcome these little inconviences and had a good win for a few or not many hours of play. If you guys don't or won't tell me you like me or my stories I am not or may not post them again. Maybe.
Vince.
Vince,
We all like your stories. They're even better in person. Amazingly, though, you looked like you were expecting to get beat by the royal. Sometimes you gotta give in to that ESP.
Results:
Foxwoods, won 150 million.
Mohegan, won 412 million.
Ok, here's my last hand of the night. 5-10. I'm on the button and get six limpers. ATc; raise; three bet by two off the button. I call, as do the rest. Flop: J66 with two clubs. Three bettor opens and I raise; three callers. Turn: 5c. Check, check, bet, I raise. Two callers. River: Jh Bet, raise, I fold. Caller one shows J8o and three bettor shows QJo.
Silently, I accuse poker gods of utter temerity, smile, and, in true Vince fashion, embrace the beat. But I'm tired, so Mary and I go home.
Net: 562 million.
John Mohegan
John,
Your writing is improving. Must be reading Vince a lot!
vince
Vince, I love your stories. Please, please please don't ever stop!I actually missed them while you were gone. By the way, that poker chip must have had a delay on it. In the last hour after you left I went from down $300 to up $0! Beats losing, in fact I felt like I won. See you next week.
Mary
Vince,
Keep posting.
"Ceasar's Vegas" implied that I could get a weekend single night room comp worth $408 if I played 4hrs X $100Bet at Blackjack. Is this correct?
Thanks, CV
How is 2+2 archiving posts and threads now? I put out a post that had 5 messages or so in the thread...and the first two posts of the thread were archived (or so somone told me, not really sure if they were archived or deleted), but the last 2 messages were still there.
I have a problem with this. If the messages were deleted, I have a problem with it (for obvious reasons), but I don't think they were, beucase the messages were non controversial, so I see no reason why they would have been deleted...which leads me to believe that the person who told me they were archived is probably right.
So, I still have a problem with that, because 2+2 is archiving half of a thread...which may render the rest of the thread useless. It just makes it real difficult to follow if one is looking back at it. I would recommend that 2+2 archive whole threads, or none of the thread at all.
From the posts I have read from the authors about the maintanance or supervision of this Forum it would seem your best bet of getting a response to your question from a knowledgable source would be to e-mail Chuck Weinstock or Mason Malmuth directly.
It appears that the messages are archived automatically in a chronological order. This is creating the broken thread situation you speak of. I recommend that the entire thread go into the archive when the topic reaches its chronological age -- regardless of the age (or newness) of the messages attached.
That's the way it is supposed to work. It probably broke while I was trying to fix some of the performance problems (I cut back the maximum number of messages in the main boards).
I will look at it, but I don't expect it will continue with the boards in steady state.
Chuck
This will definately add some spice to the olympic games and a degree of dificulty. The triatholon swimming event will involve a swim across Sydney Harbor which is the living area for 3 different types of man eating sharks including the great white. There will be scuba divers swimming with the divers wearing Shark Pods that emit an electric current that repels sharks.
This could make watching that allot more fun if the leader gets eaten....
I wonder if the times will be markedly faster...
Anyone post a line giving what the odds are on a swimmer being bitten by a shark?
There hasn't been a shark attack in those particular waters in about 20 years and not at this time of the year in about 40 years. At least according to my local paper.
went to missoula fishing this week. fished the bitterroot river just south of town. i caught lots and i mean lots of nice 12 inch or bigger rainbows on drys. also only one big brown on a dry but he broke off my leader. im too lax about tying on good knots and got punished. i fished 14 feet to 5x tippet. there is a big brown by the cement pier at caras park in missoula right in the downtown. he is at least 7 lbs. and has a small hook hole in his mouth. fish after dark. got my veggis at the farmers market on sat. morning and went to the hemp festival to look at all the kooks. then off to bernices bakery for great bread then home.-- end of fishing report.
I've yet to fish downtown but will sometime in the future. I want to check and see if that big brown does indeed have a hook scar. Some guides have told me that the mouth of the Rattlesnake is also good all winter. I like the look of the water. I used to fish the Beaverhead in town while in Dillon, looks like I'll have to reconcile my bias here in Missoula. I did spend an a few hrs. the other evening at my favorite spot on the Clarks Fork. Have you fished the glide below the bridge at Petty Creek? Plenty of fish rising, but to 22-24 spinners. I did cast to some good fish in the 18" range, even managed to hook a few. I'm bad with my leaders also, I'm not sure if that doesn't come with the territory after you fished for a while. End of the month I hope to fish the Missouri and play a little poker. Montana's biggest tournament in Great Falls. The tournament has gone down hill in recent yrs so it alone does not excite me like it used to. You keep talking about the fish downtown and some day you may be fighting me for the same water, your safe this yr because my wife won,I am painting.
i dont even know where the petty creek bridge is but ive been by most of the bridges around there. i cant see the small flies anymore so i just gave up fishing them and use big adams and goofus bugs most of the time. i catch bigger fish more often but miss out when you need midges to catch anything. ive yet succume to the idea that using a stike indicator is real fishing but im not far away. i fish the missouri below holter and like that area. there are some nice spots where you can use a float tube without getting sucked way down river. the big browns will be moving up soon.
Petty Ck. is one of the 2 Alberton exits. I can't see small flies, always seem to rip fly line off water when fish rises within 5 ft., helps when i grease the leader and watch it. I don't use an indicater, get outfished by novices using indicators(bobbers) the size of my fist. I may try a technique for lakes, bobber and bead head suspended below. Hear it drives fish crazy, jigging action. Requires a windy day.
ok now i know where it is, but i dont do out that end very much as i want to stay away from stone container as much as possible so i dont have to breath their mess.
Back in the early 80's when I lived in England I used to fly fish every weekend with my son and a neighbor kid this kid was great at 8 years old he had a real love of fishing and wanted to soak up everything I had to say about it.
Last weekend Mark won a silver medal in the world fishing championships held in Italy missing the gold by 8gms his team took the bronze. What a great accomplishment, even greater when considering Mark is a little person never growing up like most kids but he has a very big heart. We are all very proud to know him.
its truly a great feeling to have shared in the growth of another person especially when they have grown to be a quality individaul in life and thier endeavours... Be proud Rounder...
jg
good for you and him Rounder.
A wonderful skill to pass on, congrats! You've enriched a life.
Ray-
Glad to hear you had some success in my old hood after the tough summer. I used to visit the Bitteroot very often, but mostly for high school keggars, not flyfishing.
In the Missoula area, we usually fished Rock Creek, Clark Fork, and The Blackfoot. My Pop says the Clark Fork was pretty spotty this year, so maybe I will have to send him to the camas bridge to catch your mossback brown.
My pop is the best flyfisherman I ever saw (of course).
Ray, is night fishing legal in Montana? might want to go after that big brown with a sink tip and a muddler at midnight. that might be the ticket.
night fishing is legal in most states ive been in. i do use a big fly and sink tip at night and thats the only way i know how to catch big browns is at night. or when they are spawning and attack anything big and threatening looking.
Also, when a small (sized flies) hatch is going on in that area, you could swim a streamer around the hog. make sure that it's bulky and pushes a lot of water. You might make the Brown think that some little newbie fish is getting insolent.
the big browns are caught at night. but you are right with the streamer. but im spoiled as i fish the browning indian reservation near home. big browns are ho hum in duck lake and can be caught anytime of day. its one of the few places in the world where you can frequently catch browns of 8 pounds or more on a dry fly. on second thought its the only place.
do those big browns only come up for big flies (salmon fly, green drake, etc) or will they come up for any hatch? tried any big terrestrials on them? Hair mouse or frog may work too.
in the rivers the big browns will come at night for a mouse or something big but big sinkers work for them best. like woolybuggers or a weighted muddler. on the reservation(duck lake they may hit any surface fly but bigger is better, and nymphs work the best but not as much fun. except for duck lake they are really far and few between(big ones over 5 pounds)
Here is a friendly and potentially profitable suggestion for the Poker Prince, Ray Zee and the 2+2 Publishing Company:
I think Rey and 2+2 would do well to publish new, expanded 21St Century edtions of Seven Cards Stud High/Low and Omaha High/Low as the two separate books.
Each copy could stand (a) several additional (early) chapters of starting hands recomendations/selections; (b) delineating complexities between lower and middle stake games; and (c) add several book closing topics on the subject, respectively. With practicaly very little work invested, both Ray and the 2+2 can effectively meet the growing needs of the poker community at large, domestic and foreign alike, by availing at affordable price worthy manuals, and earn good return from their work.
If you Ray and 2+2 continue ignoring this segment of the growing poker market, others will gladly (and profitably) fill in the void. In a free capitalist system, no market demands remain unmet for long.
This said, Ray, consider taking a short hiatus from Montana (12 inch long) stream fishing, and take a brief sail into the ($$$$$$$$)whales infested ocean.
How about it?
naa , let someone else make a killing on it. ill leave it as is for a long while. i dont do anything solely for money anymore, it has to be fun for me to spend any serious amount of time on it and rewriting an already great book doesnt do it for me at this point. i might write some other book soon but who knows. maybe in the future a book on the real story of poker or some of the great sories ive seen and heard.( i will not elaborate on this)
how about a hatch book for the bitteroot?
there was a time i knew a real lot about bugs. most of it is forgotten. up here in montana big fish= big flies.
Ray:
Any book advance, pre-print collection? I just want to secure my copy.
due to the large demand ive raised the deposit from 10,000 dollars to an even 25,000 as i cant keep up with tracking the small deposits. but for you ill hold one copy.
We're in the process of evaluating forum software options. One of the debates were having is the utility of threaded discussions vs. flat discussions.
Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, this forum is threaded in that when you reply to a sub-reply it is linked in under what you replied to forming a tree.
In a flat forum all replies under a topic appear linearly under that topic. An example of such a forum is at http://www.straightdope.com
There are pros and cons to both in the web environment. I'd be interested in hearing opinions on this issue from forum users.
Most of the forum software available is flat. This is one of the few examples of threaded software. If you participate in any other forums that use software we should consider please let me know that as well.
Thanks,
Chuck
I prefer the threaded forum as it stands now. My only request is that when a thread is pulled to the archives, the ENTIRE thread go with it. Leaving danglers in the active forum is confusing to say the least.
Chuck,
Threads are much better. The best Forum software I have come across is 'Ultimate Bulletin Board" by Infopop. Information can be found at http://www.infopop.com
That software is not threaded.
Chuck
I participate in another forum which uses ubb. It is not a good as this one, but the administrator of that site says it is alot less work.
When using a flat bbs, you are forced to quote previous posts more often as it is not always clear which you are responding to.
I prefer the threaded format, and I even enjoy when the topics veer off from the subject titles. At least it's obvious if I am responding to the first message or the 10th message.
Brett President, IBMWR http://www.ibmwr.org/
Correct, it is not threaded, but it does have a good menu type of system (as opposed to your typical flat discussion boards), and has many custom options for the user.
As for threaded system, I remember comming across a product by 'Allaire Forums' It works nicely when using frames. It does require Cold Fusion, which may not be suitable for you.
.
Flat discussion, huh. Sure would solve Sklanksy's problem of finding the right post to respond to. Did he vote for flat discussions? I 'm surprised he doesn't rspond on RGP to a question posed here on 2 + 2. Perhaps the math mind is best served by the internet concept. Send the answer to the ether and who cares if anyone gets it. I like the forum the way it is. Separating it the way you did was a great idea. Threads are great for organized discussion. Tell Sklansky to stop whining and begging for help in finding the right thread to respond to.
Vote = 1 = threads.
Vince.
x
Before you dismiss the unthreaded software, I suggest you have a look at it: Straight Dope Message Board. Look at the 'General Questions' forum for examples of the kinds of discussions we have here.
Threaded discussions tend to go wildly off-topic. An unthreaded discussion forces the participants to address the topic.
Note that unthreaded doesn't mean unstructured - you'll still be able to create a message topic like, "Should I raise with 27o?" and have messages responding to it collect under that message.
Btw, Ultimate Bulletin Board Software is what the StraightDope uses.
Ruthless people make such a fine addition to any forum.
.
As a veteran user of tree-structured (threaded) dial-up bulletin-board systems (back in the 1980's--yikes), I must admit I have a sentimental attachment to the threaded format.
Sentiment aside, I prefer the "flow" and organizational advantages of a threaded BBS (forum). Discussions are much easier to follow. The user can avoid personally uninteresting side-tracks, because they reside in easy-to-identify "branches."
Another advantage: the system operator can (or should) be able to "prune the tree," for example, archiving older threads of enduring value, deleting flame-war threads, moving threads to appropriate or revised forums, etc. In the "old days," this largely was done to save disk space, as the messages rapidly filled up a disk. Of course a cheap hard disk holds an awful lot of ASCII these days (especially compared to the 1980's, when a 40 Mbyte hard disk was a big-ticket item). But pruning out dead wood makes an archive much more useful. As I'm sure you know after having to delete a few "copyrighted" messages lately, pruning can be rather time-consuming, but it is much more time-consuming with a flat structure.
I like both - it seems by a lot of the times recorded on the posts that we keep various hours and 2+2 seems to be coast to coast & international with the likes of Padraig, Ismet, Andy Ward and The Hawk among others.
But if you want to give the live "talk" a go I'm game.
Threads allow people to branch out from and expand the core topic without creating obstacles to those that want to follow the core discussion. The also give the furious side debates a place to thrive. Flat discussion is a terrible idea. Look at all the junk you have to read through just to follow anything on r.g.p.
I much prefer the idea of threads to the flat idea -having to wade through a lot of posts one might not be interested in, or having to quote someone more often, does not seem like it would be an improvement.
I can think of several reasons threads make more sense and should have advantages for users. I cannot think of any advantages to flat posts (from the forum user's perspective).
It seems the threadeds have it, to which I agree. As a visitor to numerous message boards, it's my opinion that the set-up here is excellent. The only boards I consider better are the boards at Wong's bj21. The only real difference between bj21's boards and yours are that his require each poster to include a subject heading, even in response to a post, as opposed to your's where the Re: such and such is automaticly entered in the subject heading, and has to be deleted to be changed. New subject headings make it even easier to follow sub-topics, and to choose which sub-topics to follow. Other than that minor detail, IMO, your boards are as good as it gets.
Well?
Randy,
In high school, I saw a great performance of Oscar Wilde's The Importance of Being Ernest at Trinity Square Repetory in Providence. It starred Katherine Helmond who later went on to star in Soap. I'd like to see this done today to find out how directors treat Wilde's homosexual subtext--Jack calls his weekend expeditions "Bunburrying."
Waiting for Godot: you've really got to see it. Wished I could have seen the Robin Williams performance on Broadway.
Tony Kushner's Angels in America: probably the most important American play in the last twenty-five years. It's got everything.
Although I saw it on TV, the fairly recent version of King Lear on PBS was superb. It featured a great performance by Ian Holm, highly effective minimalist sets, and great use of color. The actors who played Edmund and The Fool, two of Shakespeare's best roles, were also superb.
Play I want to see: August Wilson's Fences. I taught this last year, and the class loved it.
John
I've only been to about 15 plays in my whole life, but my favorite was "Picasso", writen by Steve Martin. It was at the Geffen Playhouse in Westwood Village a few years back.
Last month I saw Charles Nelson Reilly's one man play called "Life of Reilly" in Pasadena. It loved it, I haven't laughed that hard in I don't know how long. Plus the ending was absolutely perfect, I teared-up big time.
When I was a little kid my Mom took my brother and I to see "Godspell", that was before it was made into the movie. I loved the play, didn't care for the movie.
-Don
3 Sisters
Chairs
I have Caro's Body Language of Poker, which I think is quite good. Is there any reason to pick up the video, which is expensive, if you already have the book?
Thank you.
The video "shows" you what the tells look like and if you look real close you will see one of the 2+2 regulars Rick Nebiolo being called a nasty name by Mike. :-)
As a side question: there is no difference between "Body Language of Poker" and "Book of Tells" right? Same book published with two different titles? (I think "body language of poker" is the subtitle of Book of Tells).
NO they are all the same, but the videos are worth the fifty bucks. i was hesitate at first to pluck down that much on two videos considering i already had the book, but after reading the book over 20 times, the videos showed me more than i could ever read about. even though some of the scenes are done with draw poker, the object is the same.
what is he doing?
Gold- Men's Beach Volleyball. Underdog Canadian team stages huge comeback from down 9-14 to 'Mericans. Canucks fight off FIVE match points, take the lead 15-14. Yanks stave off defeat by coming back to tie at 15. Canucks serve for the match at 16-15. Yanks get side out, but lose next point. Canuck stuff-blocks USA to win 17-15. Bedlam reigns at Bonzoi Beach. Great action.
Silver - Swimming. Aussie's obliterate World and Olympic record in men's 4x100 Freestyle relay. USA also well under old WR, but end up 2/10th's back for silver. Aussie's mock Gary Hall with air guitar display.
Bronze - The 'Under' comes in as no one is eaten by sharks in Men's Triathlon, which by the way also had great finish.
Also, it's nice to get live coverage on the old CBC. I'm channel surfing yesterday afternoon between NFL timeouts (lots of opportunity for that!) and watching taped NBC stuff I had seen more than 24 hours earlier. Granted, it was at 1:00 a.m., but live is live. If I can play cards occasionally until 3 in the morning, I can watch the Olympics once every 40 years from Australia.
Beach volleyball is an olympic event?
Maybe there is hope for me to win a gold yet in something like the weenie grilling, beer guzzling, lawn darts triatholon.
I thought the same thing until I actually watched. These guys were terrific volleyball players and both teams left it all on the court. None of this spoiled brat, contract-re-negotiating, posse hanger-ons crap.
Now I understand that ballroom dancing is under consideration for 2004 as an Olympic sport? That is where I will draw the line.
Oh the beach volleyball players are world class, no question. But when sychronized swimming got into the Olympics, THAT is when the Olympics began to die. Take that "sport" (huh) out, and perhaps, just perhaps, resuscitation is still possible.
John,
Now they added synchonized diving. Go figure. Personally, I could do without female weightlifting.
Regards,
Rick
I think MSNBC carries some of that stuff live late at night too. Nothing like women's water polo to get you to sleep ....
How could Beach Volleyball EVER be highlight?
Any rock fans out there remeber this guy, who I think is one of the all time greats? At his best, his singing was grittier than Bruce Springteen and more soulful than Elvis Costello. I thought he would break it big, and he never did.
Now he is really bitter. Last time I saw him in concert he played the 2 WORST songs off of each of his albums. Rubbing the audience's nose in it like its our fault that he never got his due.
But he was still a monster in his day. Check out Heat Treatment, Howling Wind, Squeezing Out Sparks, or his anthology album if you think rock is dead (it is).
20 years later, his albums still sounds fresher than most new "rock" bands or Stonesque dinosaurs still cranking out the same old formula.
I remember him. He played with a band they calle Rumor. Gritty --definitely. he was once on a bill with John Mayall and his Blues Breakers.
Michael 7,
I have Squeezing Out Sparks on Vinyl (and no turntable to play it on ;-) ). Does this give me the moral right to download it off Napster?
Anyway, I always thought he was a cut above Elvis Costello who was good too. My brother probably has all Parker's stuff and was a big fan.
I went to college in the seventies but kept up with music when I lived back east and I could go to clubs and see up and coming bands. A few bands I liked over the years were The Replacements, The Connells, The Feelies, Til Tuesday (with Amee Mann) and Lone Justice (with Maria McKee). Any thoughts on these guys or similar stuff you think I would like would be appreciated. I'll check music on Napster but buy the CD for people I like.
I ask because alternative music radio out here in Los Angeles is absolutely unavailable (there is one decent station with a weak signal). I'm totally out of touch these days. No rap or hip hop, as I'm entering middle age and would feel ridiculous listening to it.
Regards,
Rick
The Replacements- One of my alltime faves. In their day, they seemed to me to be the only real rock and roll band.
The Connells- ok
The Feelies- don't know them
Til Tuesday- yuck, although Aimee Mann solo is pretty good work
Lone Justice- awesome, awesome, awesome; I had a serious crush on Maria McKee
I listed some suggestions for you in the Pixies thread below. If you want an oldy but goody, check out the Plimsouls. Their single "Million Miles Away", you probably know and love if I have the proper "read" on your taste. If not, you will.
I saw Springsteen BEFORE the Asbury Park album in a college cafeteria with about 200 people.
I was also at one of the first Billy Joel Concerts again at the Rutgers Univ cafeteria when people used to say Billy who? I have a copy of one of his first vinyls. The voice is quite young. It has since been rerecorded.
Is there such a thing as a selfless act? If so, please give me an example of one. [I'm not talking in degrees either, I mean a "totally" selfless act.]
The government 'garnishing' paychecks, then giving the money to foreign nationals and/or American citizens who refuse to work.
A politician then takes credit for "helping the less fortunate", and another group of politicians, or group jockeying for position for the next round of handouts, gives politician A an award for his "charity".
Note how A, him"self", had nothing to do with this "charitable" act.
A working stiff lets his own two children starve so that he can buy a Ferrari for his rich neighbor, whom he despises.
Unless he enjoys it.
Read Immanuel Kant if this sense of morality gets you off. Pretty vile stuff, which provided the "intellectual" credibility for Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and other totalitarian regimes.
x
This is the most common type of response I hear, sometimes it's Jesus Christ. I think it may come (in part)from preachers ramming it down our throat's all our lives that he went up onto that cross "FOR YOU!" Which kinda sugests that he didn't derive anything for himself, like peace of mind, or actual joy, from doing what he felt he needed to do.
Tho it may be heresy, Mother Theresa was not all she's cracked up to be. If she woulda spent just a few cents from her largesse building one teaching hospital in Calcutta instead of propogating her way-out-there unorthodoxy, the world would've been a much better place.
JG
My wife is in a class by herself when it comes to selfless acts. She helps people without ever asking for anyting in return - she is the bravest person I have ever known.
Back in 1988 the day friday morning at 5:05 am 3 tornados ran through our camping and fishing resort. It was the labor day weekend and we were expecting a full house for our last big weekend of the season. The park was mostly empty except for Orville and his wife - retired farmers who loved the lake and camping. The tornados had come through savaging roofs trees and trailers and rv's - a look out of our windows (which over looked the RV park) at the RV park brought a chill - no lights (of course) and electric lines dancing all around the rain soaked earth wind bending trees in half. All of a sudden Eileen screams "Orville" and takes off out the door for their RV at full speed. In the heavy rain, in a night shirt, in the lightening, dancing electric lines and high winds (eneough to take your breath away) after a 100+yard dash she emerges from their RV with the two senior citizens and escourts them back to our home.
What a brave woman - I am a lucky guy, in deed to even know her yet be her husband for over 24 years.
About 2 months ago I ordered The Theory of Poker and Gambling Theory and Other Topics from Chapters Online, up here in Canada. They haven't shipped either of them yet. I emailed them about 3 weeks ago asking them what the problem was. They gave me some kind of answer that was pretty non-responsive, but they mentioned that they were going to contact you (2+2 Publishing).
So I have two questions:
1. Do you have any idea why I would have a problem getting these two books through Chapters Online? (I have ordered HPFAP 21st Century, HLSPFAP by Ray Zee, and How to Earn $100,000 Per Year, and have had no problems with these titles).
2. Should I give up on these guys (ie. is 2+2 not supplying materials to Chapters Online) and buy these books directly from you. I don't have a credit card so if it I need to do this then I would need to send you guys a money order, but I would prefer to go through Chapters for the sake of simplicity.
i dont know them but maybe mason does but it could be some bookseller that buys from our distributor. no one should have to wait long for any order. id order from conjelco and use a friends card if need be and give him the money. chuck gives up eating some times just to fill his orders.
i also see that you got my book quickly, i assume thats because all smart people wouldnt think of delaying anything of mine. good luck.
We require that stores like Chapters go through our distributor hervey's Booklink or order our books from another source such as Baker & Taylor. We do not ship to them directly even though we do occasionally get a call from a Chapters store. If they follow these procedures they shouldn't have any problem with getting you a book fairly quickly.
On the other hand, if you haven't gotten a book by now, I suggest that you do what Ray says -- get it from Chuck either through this site or via ConJelCo.
Even though Chapters raves about its quick delivery time, it took me about a month to receive HPFAP 21st Century. So I'm not too impressed by Chapters. I think you may want to consider buying directly from 2+2. While I was waiting for Chapters I realized that even with the exchange rate it would have been cheaper to buy from 2+2.
The only thing I'm not sure about is if there is any duty taxes to be paid on top of the purchase price. Does anyone know the answer to this?
You are typically charged a fee when you pick up your book in Canada. Not always (I'm told), but often enough. I think it covers the GST or something.
Chuck
I have heard that Binions in Tunica may be having some trouble re their licence. Has anyone heard about this? This info came from a Very Well Known player , one of poker's best known ambassadors.
Haven't heard.....you are paining my heart on this topic.
I will snoop around and see what I can find out.
DIane
I'm making this up from scratch so don't be cruel!
S is for the SUPERSTAR that we all see!
K is for the KINDA guy we know he really be.
L is for the LOVELY tings he like to say!
A is for ALL the girls he gets to make lotsa hay.
N is for NOTHING he won't do for usun here
S is for wearing SENSIBLE underware
K is for KNOWING how to talk to me and you
Y is for YODDLING at the San Diego Zoo
Put 'em all together and let me here you yell
SKLANSKY we all wish you very WELL.
Remember you be our leader, not Mason, 'cause
You be the only true wizard named Oz.
Poem bye Vince copyright 2000. Do not delete until the poet is dead.
Vince,
Since you didn't even say hi to me in Los Angeles when you were out here I will be cruel. You write another poem like that and you might end up dead sooner than you think ;-).
Rick
Vince,
You may be breathing, but the poet's beyond all resuscitation.
John
Vince, Pay no attention to Ric and John. They're just jealous. (I do think though tht you should have mde the ends of the lines rhyme. Would have fit the tune better don't you think?) Write on
Mary
The first truly sub-Vince-standard writing I recall seeing.
Hey Mark,
Must not have been me. Hey, even a blind squirrel doesn't always here the acorn fall. I think your mad cause I didn't mention you in my Trip report. Hey I'll be at Mohegan's this weekend. You? I'm in my stud playing mode so maybe we can get to play together. If you think the Ode to Oz was bad just read my Ode to Lady Gambler.
Vince
Not sure where I'll be this wknd.--maybe!
I didn't say it was actually bad--just that it was below Classic Vince. Nobody can be always scintillating.
It was baD!
Vince
So your poetry could use a little work (or more). Your usual writing, however, is rich, provocative, interesting, witty and entertaining. That's why I call it Classic Vince. However, Classic Lepore has a more dignified ring to it.
I do not recall seeing your Ode to Lady Gambler.
M,
"Ode to Lady Gambler"
PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ don't encourage him!! Or I'll have to make another cup for you!!
Paul
M,
My Ode to Lady Gambler is so bad that even "I" couldn't read it without puking. So I S... canned it. I knew that if you read it you would have more amunition for which to destroy my image of me. So there. Now that "I" think of it maybe I shouldn't have thrown it out. After all, isn't poetry all about invoking emotion or something like that. When I read it, I thought "What kind of an ass.... would waste my time putting this piece of trash where I could read it." I wanted to wring my own neck. Fortunately I restrained myself. Instead I just bit my toungue. I had too. I needed to cause myself pain to remind myself not to make stupid poems again. Pain is such a great reinforcing device.
Vince
"I needed to cause myself pain to remind myself not to make stupid poems again."
Remember, Vince, "Time wounds all heels."
John
Bad poems before good poems.
thanks M
Vince dear,
I will forgive you if you write a good one just for me. You have inspired me in my poker strategies and I am so busy racking up all the chips lately I haven't had time to do anything but lurk around the forum for a while.
Thanks to you, dear Vince, and to all the great forum writers. I've learned so much from all of you.
LG
Lady Gambler you see,
As I write this poem for thee,
Twas shear strategy.
A beginning poem of Oz from me.
To bring one, oh, so fair,
With tender lips and flowing hair,
From someplace. Who knows where?
To find if you still doth care.
Of the scribbling of a middle aged ghost,
And fain him pleasure that he may boast,
From hillsides and mountains coast to coast
Of the young beauty others just toast.
But speaks so sweetly of him the most.
Vince
Vince,
Now you're on to it: a "doth" and a "fain" in the same poem. O Altitudo! (I use exclamation marks sparingly.)
John
Thanks John. I am thinking of one where I use spew and beauregard together.
Vince
Thank you, dear Vince. I shall never forget you.
How did you know I have sensual lips and long flowing hair?
LG
"Shall I compare thee with a mid summer night?"
W.S.
Thee, my dear, are what dreams are made of.
Vince
Oz is not the only wizard on this forum.
Delicatessen seems to be in re-release to the art houses. It's of the sci-fi subgenre that deals with apocalyptic futures. When I first saw it, I almost had to leave the theater before the opening credits rolled because I was laughing so hard. I noticed, however, that instead of laughing some of the audience was aghast. Check it out.
Co-directed by M. Caro.
I was looking on Amazon for a book I had once seen. It was a guide to surface street alternatives to freeway routes in L.A. Couldn't find it, but take a look at these reviews of the Thomas Guide to L.A.
Anyone else ever see that book I was looking for?
John,
I remember reading about the guidebook in the newspaper about eight years ago but it might be dated now. I might sick google.com on it as an exercise.
That Amazon review you linked to was hilarious. Now I see why my accidental double review slipped through.
I assume you are looking for ways to get around the mess on the 5 freeway south of the 91 along with other shortcuts. When we run into each other and you have time, we can go over my maps, which are always in my car. I'm pretty good finding shortcuts and have some feel for traffic.
Regards,
Rick
i know how frustrated you guys must be with all that traffic in L.A. why even up here in montana its getting bad. last week over seven cars went by the house. and there was even someone ahead of me in the food store.
F
correction
same car seven times.hahaha
John,
I think I stumbled upon the book you are looking for. Try this link.
Link To Book About Los Angeles Freeway Shortcuts
Regards,
Rick
Thanks. I'd tried various word combinations on Amazon, but hadn't hit on it. I ended up ordering it from Barnes and Noble. They had it in stock for immediate shipping, while Amazon didn't. I find it's often that way with my book too.
Yo no comprende su problema senor. All you have to do is hire a Mexican for four dollars a day to guide you around LA and then you can have him sit in your car and watch it for you while you go inside and play. Just be sure and roll down the window a little bit so he can breathe.
2+2,
Why not give 15% off for buying 3 books at once or some such deal. Have a first buyers discount at Conjelco for the first book, 5% off for the second, or something to encourage further book sales from Conjelco. JAT.
paul
im trying to get mason to raise the prices or stop selling the books. people that buy them and read them are getting so good at poker old men like me cant win anymore. there is such a demand for the books that mason charges Chuck 20 dollars over retail for the books and the only way Chuck can make money selling them under retail is with volume:)
I thought you old pros made so much playing poker for all those years that a few dollars from selling books would be chump change.
BTW Ray, I used to know some old poker acquaintences of yours from the Kalispel days - David Robie (Haywire), Barbwire, Neil, Jerry - do those names sound familiar? Send me free copies of every 2+2 publication immediately or I will be forced to post embarrassing stories about you from the old days.
Just kidding - no disrespect intended.
-SmoothB-
i dont have to worry about their stories as i can tell some pretty mean ones about them. i played with those guys back in the mid seventies in the kalispell area. we played nolimit poker with no ante except the dealer put in a dollar and a full 5% rake. i only remember losing once 500 bucks and breaking even once in almost two years. say hello to barbwire for me as he is a real kill. id run into him traveling around to all kinds of places in the northwest.
Would you like to tell me some good stories about them? I might be able to use that info some time. :)
Thanks Ray,
-SmoothB-
Believe the hype. Il Mulino in New York City is the nuts.
If you are going to be visiting the Apple, book this place far in advance (a couple of months is not too far).
When exactly did it become okay for professionals like Venus Williams (or michael Jordan and the dream team) to participate in the olympics? Personally, I don't like it.
Also, was the decision to allow professionals to participate in the olympics based, at least in part, due to that Cuban weight-lifter in the 1970's(and maybe into the 1980's)who dominated the heavy-weight devision for so many years. I remember there was some controversy linked to him because he was never allowed to turn professional by the Cuban government. It was rumored they kept him from turning pro. so he could continue to participate in the olympics.
The decision to allow professionals into the Olympics ended years of hypocracy where officials made a lot of money staging contests between "amateur" athletes. The athletes were treated like crap and had to scrape together incomes and take under the table payments.
It was the athletes in sports like track and field who challenged the amateur status. Why should they be denied to make even a poverty level income (and very high incomes for a select few) by taking cash for their efforts and signing endorsment deals?
The entire purpose of the amateur status was originally to keep the Olympics and associated events as contests between the upper classes as the working classes couldn't afford to waste their time training without compensation. Incidently, this is why the professional track and field records were superior to the marks that the athletes in the first few Olympics could put forth.
Nationalism soon took care of this class exclusion and states began to send their best athletes and find ways to support them. They have been "professional" for a long time but were so under a system in which they had no power. Since they were not openly compensated it was easy for national associations to dictate where, when and how athletes competed. The amateur days were horrible for athletes.
Professionalism has allowed lots of hard working athletes to live above the poverty line. Most still dont in Olympic sports, but some now can.
Once these people were allowed to take money for their efforts openly you could not well exclude other athletes who had always been paid for their competitive efforts and where previously excluded.
There is also the argument that the Olympics should be a contest between the best athletes in the world, period.
its been a dry summer then a bunch of rain then sunshine. perfect for mushrooms. this time of year i pick shaggy manes and they are great. also fried chicken mushrooms and elephant ears. not many chanterelles around here, but with the fires there will be tons of morels next spring and ill get bags full. the shaggies are actually coming up in my driveway by the bunches. but ill leave these as i want the spores to stay around. its fun to watch them grow up from looking like someones thumb to an umbrella then they dissolve into an inky mess, all in a few days or a week.
Thanks for the info Ray. How about a book on Mushrooms?
As always, my idol.
Vince.
Ray, you make me remembering those days when my sister and I went out to find fresh mushroom in the morning after the rain as kits inside a millitary compound. It just came out of the soil and had some soil on the top and it tasted real good, especially we did not have much choice of vegi during those years there. Memory like this seems forever gone without a reminder, and have a special feeling when I recollect those pictures in my mind now.
regards,
jikun
http://db.adhost.com/mushroomcouncil/recipes.cfm
Save the "Aminita Virosa's" for me so I can have a soup party for all my friends.
paul
"so I can have a soup party for all my friends. "
I guess that would be a whole one cup of soup, huh!
Vince.
Any experience with the October Sedge or Giant Orange Sedge on the Clark Fork? Last 2 nites I've seen a few large bugs at dark which may be giant caddis. Heard some rises which sounded like beavers. Any insight into this hatch?
Ed, you got me on that one but ill bet dollars to donuts that the bug is a giant golden stonefly. any big stone fly imitation at night should work and earlier id use one with the best body color to match. but a good hopper imitation that was the right size nails the fish feeding on either one. for the beavers i use a cottonwood branch about ten feet in length, but its quite hard to cast with a fly rod. beware of their teeth when taking the hook out:)
I actually hooked a beaver once on the Smith River when I was fishing a big muddler at dusk in this deep pool. My heart was reall racing until I realized what was going on. Thought I was into a ten pound brown, but it was only a foul-hooked beaver.
Ed, although I haven't fished your neck of the woods, Ray's advice sounds right on from what I've read. If you tie your own, you can try dying the wing tips with flourescent dye to make seeing the takes a little easier. since you'll be using such a big imitation, the body will block any glow from getting into the water and spooking the fish. You can also go combat fishing and swim a big muddler through the water. nothing riles up browns more than the thought of competition from an insolent dink.
I've seen the bug on the Madison in the fall usually during the afternoons. On the Clark Fork its been dark and I haven't been able to catch the bug. Today I dug up my copy of Caddisflies (excellent) by Gary LaFontaine. Genus Dicoscoecus,wing mottled gray,body reddish orange, legs brownish yellow.Gary believes this hatch gives an angler the best chance to catch a fish over 5lbs on a dry. He states that even steelhead are known to rise to this fly(Clearwater). I don't remember seeing any when I chased steelhead in Cal. even though he reports their presence in the rivers I fished. He lists the most important concetrations: mouth of the Jocko(first three miles of river), The Flathead(in the canyon area around the mouth of the Thompson River) and the lower Clark Fork(heaviest in Tarkio Canyon but extending as far upstream as Clinton. Gary says he has fished this hatch in the lower 10 miles of Rock Creek but early in Sept. This is a LARGE BUG fished in sizes 2-8, matched well by a bucktail caddis. Tommorrow I hope to look around.
Only salmon fly I've ever seen was in Salem OR near the Willamette. The only thing we have around here that's close is the Hex hatch in the summer. Those things are huge, and you wouldn't believe the hogs that rise to it. I've heard about 6-7 lb bows coming up for it, but, of course, the identity of the lake was a closely guarded secret.
According to Caddis Flies, major trout streams sych as Sacremento,Klamath,Salmon,and the Trinity have the heaviest hatches. Bob Guiannoni, headmaster of Fenwicks fly-fishing schools,found four pound and larger rainbow trout rising freely to Dicosmoecus on the American River in early August. I spent a lot of time on the Klamath and Trinity during in Oct. and Nov during the late 70s. I don,t remember seeing or hearing of these large caddis.
Ed, I've heard of the salmon fly hatches, but never seen them around here. I didn't know that they were on the American either, which is a surprise since I fish the three forks pretty regularly. never saw the nymphs in any of my surveys or the adults in my time on the water. doesn't mean that they're not there, of course, only that I wasn't thorough in my surveys. I have caught numerous smallmouth on goofus bugs and dead drifed wooley worms, though. Maybe that's what they were keying in on? You should check out the Hex (hexegenia limbada)hatch, though, if you've never seen it. big ole' one inch long mayflies!! If you get the right water, trout up to ten pounds come up to feast.
The American River I refered to was actually in Alaska and I did leave off thr McCloud.Do you ever fish the fine waters north of you including Hat Creek and the Fall River? Sorry about my sloppiness. The bug I've been refering to is a caddisfly not salmonfly.
I get up to the sierra a little, but the northern cal. waters are a little far to drive. call me lazy, but there's pretty good fishing around here, so i'm not that motivated to drive that far. someday, though...
I don't know my latin as well as I should, so I didn't catch the caddis/stone mistake that I made. the pic I saw sure looks like a salmon fly though, since there wasn't any size reference on it.
no exotic/exciting hatches around here (sniff) just the standard BWO, caddis, midge. the fish don't know the difference, though, so i guess I shouldn't sweat it.
Any suggestions for some good ones?
ive spent alot of time in canada on the west side mostly and find the food bland. if you stick with ethnic foods from the restaurants run by the real thing you can find some decent stuff. all countries that come from close ties to britian have lousy food in my opinion. but thats just my opinion. individual places may vary. what they lose in food is more than made up for by their friendly ways. i would rather be in a canadian city than an american one if i had to chose and had to be in a city. i like calgary and vancover.
The USA has some great restaraunts, despit eour close ties to Britain. Especially New York, LA, Chicago, Houston, and Miami. There even used to be a great Italian Restaraunt in Bozeman, MT but I forget the name. The Mansion is Missouls isn't good, though. But the cheesburgers at the Missoula club with pepper cheese and hot mustard are the best in the world.
both cities are good choices but of course Vancouver is the better of the two... especially in the winter.
Right near the Ontario Science Center there is a great MacDonald's.
I forget the name of it, but there is one downtown with a poker game upstaris; I recommend that one.
Man, with advice like the above posts, I'll starve. Christ, I don't even live there and know more that you guys. Ray at least gave me some general hints. That SammyB, what a guy...hey that McDonald's is really original
If anyone comes to Philadelphia or even Atl. City, I'll give you enough good ones and some out of the way ones that will tax your American Express card. BTY, Phila. might have some of the best restaurants in the USA next to NY, SF and Chicago (and LA if you like to eat grass and things like that)
Ratso,
if you dont like the place randy sent you to try the one uptown with the game downstairs. glad to be of help.
I hope they serve some nice brook trout or salmon
Over on RGP there has been quite a bit of speculation in regards to the possibility that Mason, our beloved, Malmuth is really Pokervetran in congnitovision. They also accuse Pokervetran of being Mason. A double standard I guess. Well I'm here to tell you dat it just ain't true. Mason is no more pokervetran then Rick Nebiolo. I met Mason and I saw Rick this past summer and so I know they are not one in the same. So if Mason isn't pokervetran then he isn't Rick Nebiolo either. Follow? I also met David Sklansky, who by the way has not answered my qustion on general theory yet. That pisses me off too because even though I asked Oz, I have an answer that I want to try out but I'm waiting for his answer. That is how I know that pokervetran (PV) is not Sklansky. Besides the fact that PV can write somewhat coherently, not something David is noted for, pokervetran would answer a question if asked. Come to think of it David does also, sometimes. Hmmm... Follow? Now Jim Brier is not PV either because I met Jim and he takes notes at the table. What self respecting PV would do that. Nadda chance. O.K now we are getting somewhere. Hey PV could be Gary Carson. Sure. Look Gary is a closet 2 + 2 poster. He loves this forum. But now that Mason hates him Gary refuses to come here. At least not as Gary Carson. Could be him. Or Badger? No not Badger. I doubt if Badger could be nice to anyone here even in cognitostatus. So he's out. Follow? Well we have a lot more candidates for who PV really be. Why it could even be me. Except that I can't spell pokervetran correctly very often. It's not Mason, David, Rick, Gary, etc etc.. Hmmm maybe it's all of us here on two plus two. Yeah that's it. I got it. Aren't we all Pokervetran's of one sort or another? Maybe, no for sure, Chuck Weinstock goes into the archives and retrieves previous responses that some of us have made and then answers current questions with them. That's where the PV comes from. We are all the pokervetran Chuck is referring to. Follow? That was really dificult figuring that one out. I love puzzle's. Don't you? Just in case there is another answer to who pokervetran really is I would like to ask him to keep posting here and tell them RGPer's that think he's Mason to stuff it. Follow? Hmmm...Ray Zee....
Vince.
of the RGP and poker - I have never seen such hatred and mistrust for 2 guys in poker as I do on RGP - Badger is on constant tilt and carson is Oh well just carson. This Barbara Yoon who I have heard is really Mike Caro in drag is also spewing venom in the MM DS direction.
Too much politics - the reason I don't work in the corporate world any more - I just can't take the ass kissing and back stabbing that goes on in the office - now we have all kinds of crap going on in the poker world. Too much money at stake I guess.
All I want to do now it make a meager living at poker and cash my dividend and investment checks - I am not sure what supplements what.
I just came back from the Card Player poker cruise in the Gulf. It was a lot of fun. The crew treats you like royalty, you meet lots of interesting people and there are endless things to do. The poker games were very lively and full of loose players. You pro's and patient types would clean up. (Five card Omaha high/low with 6 players seeing every flop). The rake was high and the tourney's had too much juice, but it was still a great time.
Nick,
tell us more as most have no idea what the rakes and fees are. when you say you pros and patient types does that mean you are not a pro and play loose. if thats the case a small reversal can mean alot more pleasure from playing as winning usually brings pleasure in any contest.
The rake is 4 dollars, even in the low limt 4/8 games. I guess this seems high because my own casino rakes $3. However, on the boat there is no jackpot drop.
The Card Player folks took a chunk of the buy ins for the tourneys. The Holdem tourney was a $60 buy in with $40 rebuys. They took $20 of the buy in. Again, this is way above my casino. The other tourneys were $230 buy in freeze outs. I think the $30 was the juice but am not sure. Could be even more.
(Another amusing take: They had these bingo games in the auditorium which usually preceded some other main event. They'd sell bingo cards for $10 each. There would be one prize of $500. The room held maybe 200 people, most of whom bought one or more cards. Do the math on that one!)
I'm a journeyman poker player I guess. I've read a lot and I understand the game better than my competition but I'm struggling with issues like the Charisma thing I wrote about in the other Forum. Game texture is also a subject that fascinates me as being very key to poker success. Somebody should really write a book on this topic alone.
The poker games on the boat were certainly easy games by the standards so often defined here in the forums. I ran over the 4/8 tables for three days. I noticed the (5 card!) 10/20 Omaha was equally wild and loose. I tried my luck there for only a couple hours and lost all I made in the 3 days of 4/8. There was a maniac on my right (Dave Fell ? ) who played every friggin hand. (Linda Johnson was on my left, Tom MacVoy also at the table). Then another guy entered on Dave's right and said "let's see if we can pick this game up a little". Get the picture? He straddled his very first hand, and wild Dave blind raised his straddle. Then, I got a pretty good hand dealt to me so I called. Dave flopped a full house and no low came. I don't feel bad about this session loss because I know it's to be expected in such a short time, and that with more time I'd take my share.
Linda Johnson, Lou Krieger, MacVoy and other Vegas regulars were on this boat. I got the feeling these cruise games are a feeding frenzy for these poker pals. The games, especially early in the week, are frequented by spouses, other casual poker players and plenty of Rolex watches.
Were there any 15-30 or 20-40 Holdem or Stud games? Did the games go 24 hours? Good post thanks.
Vince.
There was usually a 15-30 Holdem which featured Lou Krieger among others. There was no regular Stud. There was often a 10-20 'HO' game which is a combination of Holdem, Omaha, Stud alternately. Linda Johnson seemed to favor this one. The games usually wound down to one table by 3:00am and then they sent us to bed.
Nick,
Were there any young people on the boat? I'm 23, and if I'm at least half the average age of the other travellers, I might be interested.
B$
With the 2 & 2 forums being split into so many threads, perhaps it would be useful if there were a search mechanism that reached multiple forums at a time. I suggest a search tool which allows you to include/exclude whichever forums you want to search.
Depending on the efficiency of the search mechanism, this might very well result in fewer hits on the server (i.e. better response time for everybody). I spend a lot of my time here jumping around looking in all the threads for the latest response to various posts. Since I don't lurk here constantly, but rather am a periodic visitor, I naturally lose my place and forget where this or that post was placed. Finding them again takes a lot of clicking.
its just like remembering the cards that have been seen. as you learn to remember where all the posts are you will start remembering all the folded cards. its all just a 2+2 trick to make everyone here a better player.
"Omahalic" had posted earlier that he had "heard that Binions in Tunica may be having some problems re their license"
Horseshoe Tunica is my favorite cardroom for live action so I got concerned.
I went right to the source. A few moments ago I personally spoke with Ken Lambert, Jr. the Poker Room Manager for the Horseshoe Casino in Tunica MS. Ken was very surprised that there would be such a rumor out there because there is NO problem. He said they went through their normal license renewal review and all was fine. He said that the State of MS was especially pleased with their profitability and their multi-leveled expansion programs.
I told Ken I would post this information to stop any speculation that the "Omaholic" post might have started.
Ken said business is good and everyone is welcome to stop by and see for themselves.
Diane from Green Bay
I'm delighted to hear this. Frankly I did not believe the story myself, I think the person in question may have some private gripes with Jack Binion whom he would know since the early days of the World Series. I was at the 1st World Poker Open and will certainly attend the next one.
A couple of weeks ago, someone asked for a brief bio on smoothb. Smoothb willing, I'd love to see this, as his demographics (age, play philosophy, etc.) are similiar to mine, though miles ahead at this point.
Thanks, DanS
I was born to loving middle class parents on a tiny island off the coast of Manhattan. Back in those days it was still an untamed, uncivilized place - most of the people from my village still spoke the indigenous languages - either Guido or Manhattanese.
When I was 3 my parents took me along on a week long backpacking trip in the back country of Central Park. A tragic encounter with a wild jogger with headphones on led to mischief and mayhem - I was lost in the shuffle. A pack of wild squirrels found me and raised me as one of their own. Subsisting only on acorns and squirrel milk for years, one day I noticed that I was different from the others. At the age of 17, I gathered some acorns and headed on a Vision Quest. Fifteen minutes later I emerged forth from the wilderness onto the Central Park Expressway.
Thus ends chapter 1 of the SmoothB story.
-SmoothB-
Tell us some more SmoothB.
Tell us of your fam-i-ly.
Tell us how you got lost
And if you get found,
We'll stay around, We'll stay arou-u-ound
We feel so broke up. We hope you get found.
Things are'nt so bad SmoothB
We're all pullin for thee
Call us your brothers, cause, - we'll stick around.
We hope you get found, We hope you get fou-u-ound.
We're so broke up! We hope you get found!
Vince
Manhattan was much different from my life in the trees. To be sure, on a couple of unusually clear days I had caught glimpses of the Manhattan skyline from the treetops. But I had no idea what they were then. The wise old squirrels had a name for such things - 'Chikaclikachiki' - which in the elegant squirrel tongue means 'big things over there'.
After a couple of days I was reunited with my mother. Things were tough for a while. I had trouble with school and interacting with other humans. But 4 days later I was a well adjusted young man. As it happened I was quite bright and finished high school on time and won a full time scholarship to Stanford.
You might note that I didn't mention my father. My parents had gotten a divorce while I was away. I did not learn the reason for quite some time.
At Stanford I studied mathematics, the humanities, and the sciences. I began to play a strange card game with fellow students - they called it poker. I took to it immediately.
That brings us nearly to the present. I began to play more poker while finishing my degree and starting my graduate studies.
Anyway, I learned why my parents were divorced. It turns out that I was conceived while my parents were on their honeymoon in Las Vegas, Nevada. Years later it came to light that I was actually the bastard son of a local card sharp with whom my mother enjoyed a single night of passion - his identity has only been revealed to me as David S. I am now searching for my real father and will not rest until his identity is revealed to me!
Thus ends chapter 2.
-SmoothB-
Smooth One,
If your mother turns out to be Barbara Yoon....
I thought David Sedaris was gay. Shows what I know.
Vince,
I have taken up the challenge; note the key words:
A met a lady of your visage she knew,
And words of praise from her lips did spew,
She could not help but praise Vince overmore.
"So", I inquired, "You mean Vince Lepore"?
"No," she countered, "For him I have no regard."
"The Vince I speak of is--Beauregard."
Again, with apologies to poets everywhere.
John
My god John, that's horrible.
Vince
(Dylan tune.)
They'll stone you when you tell them to play tight.
They'll stone you when you tell them Vince is right.
They'll stone when you say go buy our book.
They'll stone you and say you are a crook.
But my boys... don't feel so all alone
E-v-e-ry-body here gets stoned.
They'll stone you when you delete Abduls post
They'll stone you cause of the way you like to boast
They'll stone you cause Sklansky can add 2 + 2
They'll stone you cause Badger wishes he could too
But hey S & M don't feel so all alone
E-v-e-ry-body here gets stoned.
da-da-dada-da-da-dada-da-da
But hey S & M don't feel so all alone
E-v-e-ry-body here gets stoned.
Vince.
A cup I better make a vat for this crew!!!
Speaking of poems, my appreciation to whomever posted that little ballad a while that ran to the tune of The Beverly Hillbillies theme song. It finished up something like, "...SMZ, Badger Free." I remember it as for the most part being a little gem.
*
I am tired and confused. In the above post "whomever" sounds right but I keep thinking it might make more sense to say "whoever." Not to confuse the issue further with "whosoever." Now the words are starting to look funny as well. I'm sticking with "whomever" and I'm not going to use the Lifeline or the Audience Poll. If I win the million dollars I will offer to take you and Mary and Vince to dinner every time I see you for a year.
Also, was the Beverly Hillbillies theme song an original tune or a takeoff on an old country folk tune?And just who was/is Earl Scruggs (besides a folk/ country/bluegrass singer or writer)?
My guesses on the poster who left the ballad with us: A Feeney, or John Vorhaus (if he even posts here) who has a terrific imagination and writes quite well when he isn't trying to dispense technical or specific poker advice.
As far as Earl Scruggs goes.
He is not a singer, just about the best banjo player that has ever lived.
Played banjo with Bill Monroe until 1948 when singer and guitar player Lester Flatt and Earl decided to leave Monroe to start their own bluegrass group FLATT AND SCRUGGS. They played together from 1948 until 1969 when they parted ways.Lester Flatt died in 1979.The song by Paul Henning was written for the TV show. Their other big crossover hit was FOGGY MOUNTAIN BREAKDOWN.
Mark,
Usually, it's best to go with whatever sounds right. In this case, "whomever" is correct because it's the object of the preposition "to." The correct usage gets tricky when the entire phrase is the object, as in "I gave my entire fortune to Spot,who is my favorite dog." Many people hypercorrect here and use "whom" after "Spot."
We grammarians, though, don't usually worry about this much anymore, and when the difference between the right and wrong choice is subtle, go with what sounds best.
John
So John,
If "go with what sounds best" is correct. I can then change: "I gave my entire fortune to Spot,who is my favorite dog." to: "Screw that pooch. I hate his guts." Now not only is my grammar correct but my feelings for that goddamn dog are honestly expressed.
Why thank you Mister Cole, you've made my day!
Vince
Here it is for all you Earl Scruggs fans posted originally in response to Vince's "I'm afrraid" and "I hate" period.
Come and listen to my story 'bout a man named Vince.
He got a Sklansky question wrong and hasn't been well since.
Sometimes his posts are full of hate the rest are full of fear
I hope he's feeling better soon he's the best damned poster here,
2+2 that is, SMZ , badger free
Y'all come back now, y'hear.
Forrest Gump
There's something about Marry
Some like it hot
City lights
Modern times
. . . I can go on to list
"Plan 9 From Outer Space"
"Top Gun"
"Wall Street"
"The Bible"
"Air Force One"
"The Poseidon Adventure"
"Valley Of The Dolls" (original, not the Russ Meyer flick)
"Hamlet" (Mel Gibson version)
"Love Story"
. . . off the top of my head. All are highly recommended for any hard day's night.
Cyrus,
Ditto Hamlet (Mel Gibson version)
How about Twister? Perhaps the worst movie I've seen besides Monolith Monsters. The flying cow left me speechless.
Big Jim McClain--John Wayne's epic contribution to the Cold War.
John
I laughed; I cried; I peed my pants.
=-0
Animal Crackers
Airplane!
M.P.'s The Meaning of Life
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Love and Death
Annie Hall
Raising Arizona
Blazing Saddles
South Park the Movie
Dr. Strangelove
in no particular order. . .
What about This is Spinal Tap?
Having spent all of my high school and college years in rock/metal bands, Spinal Tap always held a special place in my heart. Most people watch it and think "that's hilarious". I watch it and think "man, I remember when I played a gig just like that" or "I remember when we were on our 4th drummer". Mind you, ours never exploded, but still the movie hit so close to home, it was like looking in a mirror. Maybe one of those twisted ones in a fun house or something.
Hell, my second band in high school used to end every show with "Big Bottom".
Drummers-- and rhythm sections in general-- have always been a thorn in my side. I had a drummer once who beat on the skins so hard that he used to break sticks when he went for the crash..and to make matters worse he DEMANDED the be allowed to sing one song in every show. More often than not that song was "Wait" by White Lion.
During Aerosmith's darkest days, Steve Tyler said he and Joe Perry watched Spinal Tap together. They started out laughing hysterically, but then the laughter turned to painful self-realization. Tyler said it struck so painfully close to home that he wanted to retire.
I wish they had. Aerosmith made the major comeback and is now one of the world's suckiest, most self-parodying bands, IMO.
the longest yard
stir crazy
the longest yard
stir crazy
caddy shack
The Adventures of Ford Fairlane.
The Producers
What's Up Tiger Lilly
for starters
Bringing Up Baby
The Palm Beach Story
Miracle at Morgan's Creek
His Girl Friday
Adam's Rib
Born Yesterday
Mr. Hulot's Holiday
Tootsie
Life is Sweet and Naked by Mike Leigh
City Lights, except for all those tears at the end
... during football pools. I learned about this new rule last night. The shift supervisor said that it "just gets too hectic" (his exact words) during the football pools, and so they would allow no table changes.
I don't like this rule at all. First of all, I have some minor lung problems - small benign tumors that are being tracked - and if I get at a table with smokers, Casino AZ is really threatening my health. And furthermore, of course, changing tables is a well-known part of a good poker player's overall strategy, to find and play in the best games.
Opinions? And suggestions, as to how I might approach management about changing this back?
And - am I missing anything, in casino management, that might explain this? Is there some benefit to the casino that I can't see?
Dick
Dick sounds like backward (casino management) thinking.
Can you just put your name on a few lists. I guess they might figure out what you are up to.
There is always Gila.
Mike
Even at a table without smokers your health is being threatened. I suggest a petition to make the poker room a smoke-free area (tried to post this on RGP but it seemed only my other message came out). It worked at Foxwoods (although they were reportedly considering it as a potential solution anyway). The sheer volume of player support evidenced by the petition gave management a clear mandate for the policy change. Most players are against the smoke and many dealers hate it too. You, and others, have the right to an indoor environment to patronize or work in that is not so highly health-threatening. Every major cardroom in which it has been tried has, to the best of my knowledge, found overwhelming support, especially after the fact. Business has even been reported UP in more than one location.
If you are not so minded (it takes time and effort to round up the signatures), perhaps management could make an exception in your case due to your condition. If you are so minded, feel free to email me if you would like further info., etc. (I started the Foxwoods petition,and with some help, collected the signatures). Mark
am I the only visually impaired HE player, or are there others out there? would likw to compare notes
For the 54th consecutive year I failed to make the Forbes 400 richest Americans list. Do you think it's a racial thing?
vince
Did Oz finally make the top ten this year?
-SmoothB-
I don't think they know about the mason jars buried in the back 40, Vince, since the Forbes 400 is, I believe, based on stated assets.
"I believe, based on stated assets"
Thanks GD, I thought it was based on a bunch or rich asses.
Vince
Mr. Lepore,
I asume I have now found the forum I am surpose to use for my silly garbage.
I'm sorry you didn't make Forbes 400 list. I think you might have better luck with Teen Magazine.
Respectfully, The Suburban Poker Man
SPM,
Vince? Teen Magazine? Surely You're Joking, Mr. Suburban Poker Man?
John
i think im off to yellowstone national park to go look for wolves. maybe some fishing too. its been cold there so ill take my down bag along.
Ray have a good trip. Slough Creek? Do you ever fish Henrey's Lake for the big brookies,or Box Canyon(Henrey,s Fork) for the big bows this time of the year? Crowds should be down. When I was in West Yellowstone 3 wks ago it reminded me of the 70s.
You must be the luckiest man alive. I hope you harbor good thoughts of Norman MacLean everytime you pull a 16 in. cutthroat from those magical glacial waters.
Forget MacLean...I hope you fish like Wulff, tie like AK Best, write like nick lyons and lie like Gierach (in a good way) when you have your fisherman's hat on. Tight lines, Ray.
-2d
Is this the poem that starts off something like...
Mona Lisa
Lady Gambler
Mona Lisa
Lady Gambler
If it isn't, would anyone repost this literary masterpiece?
-SmoothB-
I've been reading several articles about world champion poker players. One person sticks in my mind as someone on tilt. Has Phil Helmuth gone off the deep end. I read one story where he talks about the hard life of rags to riches and back to rags again. About how painful his life has been worrying about how to pay the bills. Then writes telling a story of losing 80K playing chinese poker in side game during a big Vegas Tourney. All the while crying about the cost to enter events and paying 1K a in week hotel bills. That followed a story of losing 50K playing golf in Lake Tahoe. He admits to shooting 90+ earlier in the day. Obviously unable to hit the ball out of his shadow why take a single bet. Isn't this a case of playing 72o UTG. Sounds like folding is a good play and wait for a better game, like Texas Holde'm?
Is this normal behavior for poker champions? Is Phil on tilt or just a plain old compulsive gambler?
I too read "Hand of the Week." Phil Hellmuth seems to be one hell of a complexity (pun intended). A great, or even a good player, looks to get the best of it at all times, and only admits to 'gambling' when they have the edge and the means. I think Hellmuth clearly exhibits compulsive behavior. He manages to control it, i.e., not playing the $5000 no-limit to concentrate on the 'big one,' but he can tilt like no other when things aren't going smoothly. I think narcissism (sic?)/ need for total success are standing between him and the likes of Dolly/Slim, etc.
Dan S.
P.S. I recalling a story about his first time in Vegas. He sat down at a 150/300 razz game. Is this enough of a bankroll? Probably not. Is this a good limit to sit at if the $15,000 is all you have to your name? Definitely not. Is this the right game considering he had never played razz before? Hell no!!!
P.P.S. I'll be the first to buy Andy Glazer's book, as long as it has semi-objectivity.
Andy Glazer is a great guy and a good writer. Any lack of objectivity in "PokerBrat", while stem from "starstruckedness", IMO.
Phil Hellmuth is a nice guy away from the table. He's to be commended for his commitment to his family. He, almost alone among well-known players, is willing to admit when he played a hand wrong. When he's on, he's one of the top 3-4 L-PL-NLHE tourney players in the world, maybe ever.
But he can't beat side games and he appears to have developed some nasty gambling leaks. He has the ability, intelligence and desire to be a crossover type like Amarillo Slim was in the '70s. He'll have to tighten up before that happens.
Limit - probably not in the top 100 - Current top 25 in NL/PL I may agree with you. Your comment was probably true 10 years ago but not today.
I meant combined results in L-PL-NL. Gotta give him credit for being the only player to win bracelets in all three styles, as well as the three in '93, and the two wins at the '95(?) HOF.
However, he hasn't done much the last couple of years, outside of the WPO. The two hands he got eliminated on at WSOP final tables this year he played simply awful, and he wasn't on tilt either time.
The mistake you make is in the title of your post.
Phil's wife, who has a PhD in clinical psychiatry, only wants him to play poker TOURNAMENTS, no other gambling whatsover.
He should listen to her.
I think Phil Hellmuth is very amusing at the poker table. I spent a lot of time at his table at the WSOP in one event. His biggest leak is not giving his opponents any credit. I only played 3 pots against him, bute won every time;-)
In the latter stages of the 2500 PLHE at this year's WSOP, I flopped the nut flush against him after he raised my BB from the SB. I had Ac7c and just called. He was the big stack, and was playing very aggressive. He checked after the flop came Kc8c9c. I thought he had a big hand, and made a quick pot-sized bet that almost put me all-in. I was trying to throw off the reverse tell (acting strong when really strong), but he didn't buy it and folded. Maybe he just had crap.
I think I really botched this hand. I should have checked along and made a "deperation" bet on the river. Phil would probably have loved to make a great call against this unknown shmuck with something like Q-high, bottom pair, or a 5-high flush.
Mason Malmuth posted the following on RGP: "..I'm the one who coined the term in 1988 in HPFAP."
Maybe so, but A.J. Myers used the term "tight-weak"(and implied that it was generic term that he did not invent), referring to the same phenomena, when interviewed by A. Alvarez during the 1981 WSOP.
IMO this is sort of like the Olympic training lift called either the 'snatch drop'(by Dr. Bill Starr['68 USOLY team ass't coach]), or 'drop snatch'(by swimmer Amy Van Dyken(describing how she badly injured her shoulder working out[and that she never should've been doing, but that's another post]).
Here is what I wrote in my book POKER ESSAYS which was first publishes in 1991. (See page 112.)
"In Hold'em Poker For Advanced Players, David Sklansky and I talk about a certain class of opponent that we refer to as "weak tight. "The purpose of this essay is to clarify what we mean when we say "weak tight" and to discuss why this is in many ways the best type of opponent to play against. (Just to set the record straight, the first time I ever heard the term "weak tight" was in a discussion I had with world-class player Ray Zee.)"
Noted, but that excerpt from PEs does not appear to imply the same thing as your post on RGP.
I thought is described a lot of girls I went to High School with.
Me too, but maybe they were only being tight for us... :)
Hey guys, I'm back.
Gosh--went from 2 computers in August to none for the last month. My son took the good one back to college, and my old clunker here went hooey.
Help me out while I catch up. Which threads were most interesting or "must reads" over the last few weeks?
If you read nothing else make sure to catch Ray Zee's fishing posts. Everything else is nonsense.
Nice! Good one, SammyB. Yes, the Ray Zee fishing stories and Vince's poetry are worth the price of a new computer.
Seriously though, what's the most important thing I missed? Great thoughts from S & M, well played hands by Jim Brier, any new posters to add to my "must read" list?
I have found much to learn from the medium stakes forum lately. Jim has posted some interesting hands and the debates have been educational.
Tommy is a new poster who has garnered the respect of Bob Morgan, a close friend of Jim's, so I have followed all the threads in which he has participated.
Other than that, poke around and welcome back.
Abe,
On the Internet forum Dan Hanson was the target of a vicious and unwarranted personal attack started by a poster named “Matt”. Dan may not be posting for a while if ever and it is a huge loss.
I don’t surf that forum much and only became aware of the situation when I saw Dan mention on RGP last week that he won’t be posting on 2+2. I asked why and when Dan didn’t respond (understandably) a private third party email alerted me to the source of the problem. Last night I had a chance to read the Internet forum and was able to locate the ignition point. Look for a thread started by Ed Hill (in the recent archives) on September 7 and look for a sub-thread started by Matt titled “Ray is my friend who doesn’t post anymore” posted on Friday, 8 September 2000, at 9:27 p.m.
I am 100% behind Dan on this one. He is an enlightened thinker and has been libeled and defamed. Read it all on the Internet forum. Read the original discussions on the Exchange/Other Topics forum that were the source of “Matt’s” attacks and come to your own conclusion.
I don’t want my silence at the time to be interpreted as support for “Matt” and his distortions. I just wasn’t there much to my regret. All else on the forum is secondary in importance including the Badger/Carson deletion controversy right now.
Regards,
Rick
Rick,
Thanks. Dan Hanson? Wow. He is (was?) one of my favorites. He helped explain some computer stuff to me over a year ago. His responses to my posts were always helpful and interesting. His own posts were great. He was one of the ones on 2+2 that I always read. I have only read the first of his P.D. articles so far, but it was really good. Funny sidelight = I had him pictured as a disgusting old f*rt until I saw his pix in the P.D mag.
So I have a predisposed bias in his favor, but I will go to the "Archives" and read the posts/threads you mentioned. Thanks again.
Abe
"I am 100% behind Dan on this one. He is an enlightened thinker and has been libeled and defamed. Read it all on the Internet forum. Read the original discussions on the Exchange/Other Topics forum that were the source of “Matt’s” attacks and come to your own conclusion."
My conclusion is the same as yours Rick. I had skimmed some of the stuff on the internet forum, and assumed the thing with "Matt" would just blow over as people saw how ridiculous is was. I still want to believe that any thinking person, any poster who has *any ability to discern fact from fantasy, and rational comment from pathological attack, will have recognized immediately that "Matt" (and any cohorts) had, or at least was pushing, a totally distorted view of what Dan had said. It's sad that some very troubled and, consequently, irrational poster can have such an impact. I trust few took him seriously.
This is a continuation of SmoothB's "Best Novels" thread, which I think was a great idea.
I'm going with:
Isaac Babel
Anton Chekov
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Hemingway
Raymond Carver
BTW, I will also be on this list in I hope about three years from now. So you can all say you knew me when... :)
Edgar Allen Poe
Shirley Jackson
O. Henry
Guy de maupassant
Ray Bradbury
I would have to agree with Poe and with Maupessant, although I've never actually been all that into Poe. I haven't read any Ray Bradbury. I haven't read much Shirley Jackson either, but I hated "The Lottery".
My favorite short stories were from H P Lovecraft and Robert E Howard. Both were ahead of their time. Conan and Cuthulu are known by almost everyone. OK maybe Cuthulu isn't.
CV
gd,
I'm 24 now, and I read Jackson's "The Lottery" when I was in eigth grade. What that story says about human nature is very, very powerful. You got me thinking about it again. I suggest a reread, and I'm not criticizing your opinion, I just think a reread might change your mind.
Glynnis
I would add D.H. Lawrence, James Joyce (Dubliners), Hawthorne, Melville, Stephen Crane, Kafka, Mishima.
Oh God, yes. Joyce, Lawrence, Crane, Kafka... I completely agree. I also should have added Thomas Mann, but for some reason I forgot.
In no particular order:
PG Wodehouse Mark Twain Akutagawa Ryunosuke Stanislaw Lem Poe (my childhood favorite) Rod Serling? (or whoever wrote the Twilight Zone stuff. Can't remember the name). John Updike (I don't like his longer stuff) Jean Sheppard William Humphries Chandler/Hammet
There was a guy, now forgotten, who wrote stories about a tractor salesman named Botts.
I am reluctant to post this list because I know I leaving some of my favorites out....
A few modern writers you might be interested in:
Lorrie Moore
Mary Gaitskill
Tobias Wolff
Tim O'Brien, who wrote that great Vietnam War story "The Things They Carried"
Toni Cade Bambara
Two oldies that always can stand rereading: Hemingway & Jorge Luis Borges
Favorite short story: "Good Country People" by Flannery O'Connor
Although it wasn't a short story per the guidelines set down by Poe, Wolff's This Boy's Life was a wonderful story, rich in character and imagery.
But the movie was notso hotso.
I can't stand Mary Gaitskill. I've never read Lorrie Moore, but I have a copy of a lecuture she did that NPR recorded, and she sounded so wholly arrogant that I haven't been able to buy one of her books.
Tobias Wolffe is great, although I like is earlier stuff better. The Night In Question was, IMO, mediocre. But he's definitely a high quality writer.
I always thought I should like Borges better. I think he's just too smart for me.
Have you ever read a guy named Breece Pancake? I found one of his books in a second hand store a while ago, and just started in on it. Apparently he killed himself when he was 27, around 1979. Kind of John Kennedy Toole story, except this guy wasn't an unknown when he died.
Gaitskill is tough getting used to, and her material is a bit offbeat, but I think she writes with a clarity approached by few writers today. I only know Lorrie Moore through her stories, but from what you say, that's probably a good thing.
Wolff is always intriguing, I think; many of his stories begin one way and march off into a different direction near the end. I can't quite figure out why.
You might be interested in reading John Irwin's latest book (can't remember title) that offers a point by point comparison between Borges' and Poe's detective stories.
Never read, or heard of, Breece Pancake, but love the name.
BTW, saw your note about Song of Solomon. It's not only Morrison's best, but, I think, but one of the best American novels in the past thirty years or so. If you liked this one, you might also like Nora Zeale Hurston's Their Eyes Were Watching God. Hurston, who studied with linguist Franz Boas at Colombia, looks at both male and female African-American signifyin' practices--among other stuff--in this fine novel.
I read Hurston, but thought the book to a weird spin when Tea Cake gets rabies... I liked it, but I'm with you on Song of Solomon-- a true American classic. You should pick up that Breece Pancake book if you see it-- it offers a clear and faithful look at Appalacian life, without the noir element of Cormac McCarthy or that condescending tone of Bobbie Ann Mason.
Is the Irvin book "Widow for One Year?" If so, I haven't read it.
The one thing I like about Gaitskill is that she's from Michigan-- or, at least lives here now.
GD,
Actually, that's John Irwin, professor at Johns Hopkins who wrote a book called American Hieroglyphics, which traces the influence of archaeological discoveries on the work of Poe and other American writers of the same period. He also writes poetry under the pseudonymn of John Bricuth (sp?). His book on Borges and Poe shows how Borges mirrors the three Poe detective stories.
BTW, the incident concerning Teacake is based on perhaps the most destructive hurricane of the 20th century around 1934 in Florida.
John
Tim O'Brien, who wrote that great Vietnam War story "The Things They Carried"
I read Tomcat in Love and liked it.
Two oldies that always can stand rereading: Hemingway & Jorge Luis Borges
I agree.
Favorite short story: "Good Country People" by Flannery O'Connor
One of my favorites.
The others I haven't heard of.
It was Conrad Aiken who wrote this gem. I read it in 8th grade and it's given me the chills ever since.
Tomcat was funny, but it didn't leave much of an impression. "If I Die in the Combat Zone" was better, I think... although it's tough to compare the two. His short stories are tremendous-- at least the ones I've read.
GD,
I didn't see John Cheever on anyone's list. And who could forget Vince Lepore!. What is wrong with you guys.
Rick
Hey Rick,
Did you ever see the movie The Swimmer, which is based on Cheever's short story. It's a great movie, seen, I think, by too few people.
BTW, that guy you mention, Vince Lepore; he's of the surrealist school of writing, isn't he?
John
John,
Haven't seen "The Swimmer" yet. I'll put it on my big list of movies I should see but will probably never have time to.
Given he never stopped by to say hi when he was in Los Angeles, I don't even know if Vince Lepore is real, so fagetabout surreal.
Rick
You obviously haven't read "Young Jack Black" which appears in my Gambling Theory book.
Mason,
I have an old second edition published in 1988. Is the story you are speaking of called "Hit the Road Jack" in the Creative Bad Beats chapter? Is there a newer edition that is substantially upgraded?
BTW, when reading this chapter I saw you mention the almost legendary ASQ in another story. He looks great and is playing at Hawaiian Gardens these days. Nice man and fun to play with.
Regards,
Rick
Rick:
The story is in the current 1999 edition which has a lot more material than the edition that you own. I think they have a copy in the Hollywood Park Gift Shop so you may want to sneak a peak.
Tell ASQ I said hello. Is his pal Edmond still around?
Mason,
I was fortunate to sit next to ASQ today while propping his favorite game these days (Stud H/L). He had just finished having breakfast with Edmund so I passed along your greetings. He told me to say hi and gave you his best wishes.
Regards,
Rick
This is embarrassing to admit, but I've only read one Cheever story-- "The Country Husband". I did like that.
Michael--
If you like Steve Earle and Lucinda Williams then I stroooonggly suggest you pick up "Living with the Law" by Chris Whitley. It's absolutely my favorite album from the 90's.
I read Rick's response to your Pixies thread and had to laugh... I'm 28, and it's all I can do to eat a pizza on the couch and listen to my Gordon Lightfoot CD's anymore... Although there was a time when 'Bleach' was stuck in my car stereo, and I spent most of my days singing "Loud Love" by Soundgarden.
I never much cared for the Pixies, although to be honest I never listened to much of them. I remember hearing Black Francis' solo efforts and thinking they were subpar... although I always did think J Mascis was horribly underrated (don't know if you were (are a Dinosaur fan, I'm just assuming you were (are)).
I have seen Chris Whitley live a few times and always liked him, but never felt compelled enough at the time to buy an album. Now that I have mellowed and "country-fied" a bit, I certainly will. It helps to know what the best album is.
I was/am a big Dinosaur Jr fan. I saw Dino and My Bloody Valentine at the Masquerade in Atlanta in 1991 and have been hard of hearing ever since. I got a t-shirt with the "Green Mind" album cover of the little girl smoking a cig that is still my favprite. I thought Mascis would break big after Dino's "Where You Been?" album in 1992? That record kind of got lost in the post-Nevermind grunge rush, but stands out as one of the 1990s best guitar-based rock.
Pixies, like single malt scotch, can be an acquired taste. The first couple of times I listened to Doolittle, I didn't really like it, but tried it again because it was sort of compelling in an irritating sort of way. Then, all of a sudden on the 3rd spin, it just hit me in the gut and became addicitve. Don't rely on the Black Francis solo albums to form an opinion. His albums are quirkier, and not nearly as powerful or good as his former band.
I heard those MBV shows were wild. A friend of mine saw them with This Mortal Coil and has never been the same since... although that could be the fault of the four hits of blotter he dropped before the show. You're right-- it's weird that Mascis never made it big. I remember listing to--what was it?-- 'Start Choppin'?-- and thinking they were on the cusp. He certainly did have the talent, so I can only assume he got sick of the industry. In other words, pulled an Ian MacKaye.
DS talks about a man with Tourette's syndrome that can predict the results of a coin toss. DS suggests a connection between Tourette's syndrome and predicting the results of a coin toss based on Bayes' theorem. David suggests the possibility of having medical science investigate this phenomenon.
This is a simple trick and nothing more. I can't call the coin toss correctly every time like the person David talks about, but I can do it a significant percentage of the time. I have taught the technique to others.
David's logic is significantly flawed on this none poker issue. David, like many others simply accepts that there is a real phenomenon. You need to first establish that a real phenomenon exists. Scientists are completely helpless against professional hustlers and tricksters. "The Amazing Randy" has exposed numerous scientific frauds that had previously been validated by scientists. "The Amazing Randy" is a professional magician, business consultant, and author. Randy has written several books that are excellent reading.
I was told that this particular fellow coud see the coin as it was rotating. Given that, my statement stands. Egen had I not known that however. my general theoery still holds.
The trick is to see the coin as it's rotating and in knowing what to look for in the coin's rotation.
I agree with your general theory about the application of Bayes Theorem to incredible coincidences. I found the other examples very interesting.
My point was about your illogical jump of faith into believing that predicting a coin toss was a phenomenon and not simply a trick.
I read that there was an individual who made a lot of money betting with this. He would let the victim call it first. If he called it right he would talk him out of the current throw and into another throw perhaps by offering him better odds on the next throw (if he agreed to dimiss the current throw without looking). I just woke up and am not sure where I read this, but it seems like it might have been be in physicist Richard Feynman's Surely You Are Joking, Mr. Feynman. If it wasn't there it could well have belonged there along with other assorted tricks such as speed cube root derivation and safecracking. I recall reading also that Ken Uston fell victim to this trick and lost a lot of money on it, which he tried to get the team to agree to cover from the team bank. He took a lie detector test and argued that since he was betting with the edge (always getting better than 1:1 odds) the team should cover it. He said if he won he would have put it into the team bank. I think he passed the lie detector test but the team voted against covering it, perhaps saying that it violated the team rule against solo play.
On the other hand, it is still possible that a phenomenon does exist in the case in question, and it is illogical to completely rule that out as well.
It's a phenomenal trick.
Next!
n/t
Seeing that I deal the game and have a somewhat knowledge of playing upper limit Omaha H/L I would like to get an opinion from you guys. I was dealing an omaha game in a casino(15-30)and as the showdown was about to take place after the river a player rolled his and over with 3 other players yet to act and I proceeded to call out the hand as an instintive move and a fellow dealer from a nearby casino steps in and says "Your not supposed to call the hands until another player either asks what is being showed or a second player shows his hand, and that goes for any poker game." Well being a somewhat competant dealer/supervisor it was the first time I heard of that. Understandably calling out a hand can effect the other players outcome in a H/L game but this player/dealer also said it holds true for all games. Considering all the elements of poker to slow the game down would the players rule in favor of this or let the games constantly be held up by slow rolling players??
Many casinos have the rule "the dealer will assist in reading the hands" or "the dealer will read the hands" there may be some place that has such a rule, but I would advise against having a rule that make the game more difficult for beginners to follow. Poker rooms need to have rules that make it easier for new players, not ones designed to put them at a disadvantage or embarrass them.
Randy Refeld
Our local 10-20 hold'em Rock Formen Billy Nails asked me to post his tail of woe.
It was in the new featured Friday 15-30 hold'em game.
He says he lost 800 in two hours of play. You all know what kind of hands Billy Nails plays, so in two hours he must have been hit with the deck to lose 800 smackers.
Mr. Nails says while rowing each premium hand to the river he was relaxed and was ready to set the hock on any local fishes wanting a nibble. But every time he reached the river, a man know as The Bushwacker was waiting for Nails to make one final deposit. Mr. Nails, next time get a river report, flash floods are always possible on the river.
The Suburban Poker Man
Saturday, Harra's.
I was a little cloudy in my head but I was sure the sun would shine by the time I got in a game. 10-20 hold'em I got pocket eights so I raise, after the flop, no eight in sight, but I bet anyway. There were some big cards and I was hoping that all would figure I had some of it and release. I figured wrong, now I'm heads up with one player. I asked myself what could he have, but I refused to answer the question. I bet, he calls, the turn no eight, ok I bet again, some guys want to see if you really have a hand, waiting for the big bet to muck their hand. He didn't muck, again I asked myself the question, what did he have, once again I refused to answer the question. The river, no eight and I'm hungry for a win, so I bet, he raises, now I must answer the question, but I didn't want to say what I new after the flop, so I mucked the eights.
I got pocket eight's three times that day and played it the same way three times. The only answer I can come up with, is either the house or me wasn't playing with a full deck.
Respectfully, The Suburban Poker Man
Here is how I play 88 - if there is an over card on the flop much less 2 or 3 I muck the bastards asap If there is any action. Unless that is if I pick up a straight draw with 8 clean outs. Problem is IF I do hit my set on the turn or river it most cretainly means some bozo made HIS straight so I am cooked eigther way.
Yes I am a celebrity in my own mind, but even us celebs have feelings. I have more than most, and when I got spanked on Medium Stakes by you and your poster friends, I shut the computer off and sucked my thumb for 24 hours.
I saw Rounder at Harra's and told him of my spanking, he eased my troubled heart and says you're and ok guy, I'm not convinced yet.
Real names ok, your missing some info, when I'm at work at home in my basement office, I'm known as Basement Man and I wear a hat with the name. When I'm home with my wife, I'm Studly Man, I have been in the past, Insurance Man, Carpenter Man, Instructor Man, Limo Man, etc. So as you can see at the hold'em table or on the internet posting poker stuff, I'm the SPM.
I read the terms and conditions and I'm in copliance with the rules. I am not posting by someone elses name, I'm just a little confused who I am, so my activity reminds of who I am.
So what is a Vince Lepore, a pro, an internet junkie, or maybe just a guy needing a life.
Respectfully, The Suburban Poker Man
"So what is a Vince Lepore, a pro, an internet junkie, or maybe just a guy needing a life."
So this is your idea of name calling. You seem like a worhtless opponent to me so let's have some fun. First things first or second depending on what the first thing is. You are a self described thumb sucking X-Man celebrity and in your words I am a "life needing, professional, internet junkie". In my words, you are an insecure self gratifying wanna be that gets off on referring to himself as The Man. Me I'm just Vince.
Vince.
Ouch! Was that a raise?
SPM
Listen SPM,
I get no kick from this game,
A mere name call doesn't thrill me at all.
Yet I get a kick talking about you.
I get a kick every time,
I read a silly post that you've made about me.
I get a kick though it's clear to see,
You are obviously just as stupid as me.
I get no kick from David Sklansky.
Even on the beginners forum,
Where I refer to him as Mr. Panski.
Yet I get a kick ragging on you.
Vince.
Nice to see your still making friends all over the world.
Just a cup will do!!!
ukw
SPM,
Enjoy reading your stuff. Do you really have a hat that reads "Basement Man"?
And, don't worry about that role confusion; I think it's normal, but the real expert here on such matters is John Feeney.
Regards,
John
PS.
I have been or am both a member of the National Education Association and the Operators Union (Local 2, Roslindale, MA) and know a track idler from a track roller and a hawk from a handsaw. Role confusion? Studly Man?
a hawk from a handsaw? wait a minute. which way is the wind blowing?
scott
North by Northwest, but you already knew that, scott.
then i can't help you. but let me know when they turn southerly.
scott
At Harras when I told you Vinny was a good guy (and he is) I forgot to say he is on massive daily doses of Lithiam and if he misses his meds - well he just goes off on some sort of tangent, you know, like the Tasmanian Devil in the cartoons.
Usually Vinny is a controlled reasonable guy - except when he isn't.
:-) Just kidding.
I loved it, but of course it helps to be a fan of the music from that era, as well as being a SuburbanMiddleClassWhiteBoy/Girl born btwn 1955-65.
It's fairly rose-tinted and sappy, like all Cameron Crowe movies, but not everything has to be, like, DEEP ART.
The acting is superb, esp. Frances McDormand, Kate Hudson, Billy Crudup, Jason Lee and Fairuza Balk. They're are also many little cultural references that are fun to spot, i.e. what album covers Stillwater's t-shirts and posters were taken from(actors' faces airbrushed onto); parodies of all those '70s concert films, etc.
I missed this era by several years, but I can still remember how I felt at 14-18, hearing certain albums for the first time. Wish I'd've made more positive use of those feelings.
Bottom line is, if you're a fan of SMCWB/G movies like "Fast Times At Ridgemont High", "The Bad News Bears" & "Dazed And Confused", you'll like this.
Crowe deserves an Oscar just for filming the idea of a fifteen year old boy losing his virginity to Anna Paquin, Fairuza Balk and Bijou Philips, simultaneously.
Of course, being as this scene is based on what actually happened to Crowe back in 1973, I hereby nominate him for "Best Way To Have Lost Your Virginity In World History".
Myself, I always had down for worst way, until I read about the famous bodybuilding writer, the late Dan Duchaine rupturing his girl internally and having to take her to the hospital(she recovered fully BTW).
Crowe-10/10, Me-.5/10, Duchaine 0/10. Bring back any memories for any of you guys?
I loved the movie. I think there was an anachronism, tho. A reference to Led Zeppelin 2 was made in September 1969, tho it did not come out until October 1969. I may be wrong about the former date tho. Also, didn't the sister bequeath a copy of Tommy to her bro as she left home in 1967? Also I found it interesting that what sounded like Jethro Tull was the opening band for Black Sabbath. Perhaps a veiled dig at the 1991 HM Grammies. And it appeared that the Tempe Stillwater concert took place at the University Activity Center which was the sight of a big scene in the other Cameron Crowe movie, "Jerry MacGuire." Also the avionics on their private jet (seen briefly when the pilot opens the door) weren't to be found on planes of 25 years ago. but I digress.
I really liked the movie.
Yes they were. Al Gore was there for the invention/development of the aforementioned avionics. He told me so.
But now I digress. I look forward to the movie and have loved all of Crowe's previous work (even Singles). He is married to the non-fat sister from Heart.
Your get no kick post confirms that you are just one note short of a full song.
SPM
I was in Tunica for the holiday weekend in a pretty quiet 10-20 game, when the famous Diane from Green Bay takes a seat at my table. Here are some important safety tips and helpful hints for when you find yourself in this same situation:
1. Do not expect to have any idle chit-chat conversation with her when you both have folded on a hand. Diane is going to play almost EVERY hand.
2. When you raise her blind, do not try the "innocent" act. ie "What! It was your blind? Oh, I didn't know." --- None of this works and you will just provoke her. You'll be sorry.
3. If you are pretending to be a tight player, do not try to sneak into hands with K-T, A-9, or other trash. Diane will notice this right away, call it to the attention of the table, and embarrass you in front of your peer group.
4. Do not make fun of the way she lines up the edge stripes on all the chips in front of her. Some of those chips used to be yours.
5. Sit to her right, sit to her left, sit at the other end of the table---it doesn't matter. My advice is that when Diane shows up, you should get a table change or go back to 4-8.
Just kidding on all this, Diane. Always a pleasure being at the same table with you.
Abe
Abe- Thanks for the laugh so early this morning.
We had fun that night. Now how will I ever get another good game going when you have "outed" me?
See you and girls again soon. Dinner will be on me (again) Diane
I played stud this past weekend at Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods. On Saturday in a 15-30 game at FW I lost to a K high straigt flush in hearts. I had Aces up on fourth street. I only mention it because it is third straight flush I have lost to in my last three sessions. Seems like a lot. I also lost with rolled up Kings. I lost with them a t a prticularly bad time, psychologically speaking. The poem that follows comes out of respect for that loss. the names have been changed to protect the innocent.
It was a very bad Beat! by Vince Lepore
While playing stud yesterday,
Nearly went crazy I must say.
I lost with rolled up kings.
On my first hand, of all things,
To Sklansky who raised with two threes.
It nearly drove me to my knees.
Jumped right out of my seat.
It was a very bad beat!
So I ran on over to Holdem,
Rather than play with Mr. No Foldem
And suffered a similar fete.
Pocket Aces went down in defeat,
To Malmuth’s early raise with Q,9.
He was way out of line.
I stomped both of my feet.
It was a very bad beat!
I then thought to myself just what do they know,
These poker guys that call themselves “pro”.
They smiled when they won.
I Guess they had lots of fun.
Must have been a real treat.
It was a very bad beat!
But poker, if you play,
Will always treat you this way.
Losing when you think you will win.
The poker god laughing within.
As you flush from the heat.
Of your very bad beat!
Vince
Vince,
Bad things always come in bunches. Statistically speaking, you will be better off next time. What are the odds that this can happen to you again?
Good Luck
Vince,
I also lost tens full to a straight flush this weekend, and Mary lost to a royal on the same night. Think they put something in the water?
John
PS.
Guy who beat me checked called with the made straight flush on the turn when I bet with two tens on the board. I just called his river bet when the board hit a second queen on the river, thinking perhaps he might have a Q in his hand. He managed to extract from me the bare minimum on this hand. Amazing.
xx
#
.
Aurora, IL 10-20 hold'em with a straddle button.
This was a feeder game into the main game if you get my drift. It was a river boat, but it was docked for open boarding. A man called "Professor" who always wore a hat. They called him up to the majors, you know the main game. He had won the straddle button just a few hands ago, he said I'll play to my straddle boys, then I'll have to go. True to his word, he played the game, and left when it was time.
We'd like to thank you Professor, but those that won it and left just threw it in the next pot, and no chips. Professor you are The Gentleman Straddler.
Is it my imagination or does RGP have, for the most part, very little poker content in the posts there? I started checking it out a couple of days ago, and I've found a lot of S+M bashing, a lot of "other" theorist promotion, a few trip reports that concentrate on the fun of a trip, a lot of low limit banter, but very little theory discussions.
call me naive, but I think hand discussions make me a much better player than finding out which casino's deli serves better hotdogs.
I do believe I am done with RGP until they start discussing something worth reading.
It is called REC.gambling.poker, not PRO.gambling poker.
granted, but it is not called BITTER.gambling.poker, or flame.gambling.poker or gossip.gambling.poker either. I went there because I've heard some good things about some of the people who post there. I thought I could learn something about my game by reading some of the posts. Instead, I find people patting the backs of the posters that they like and taking pot-shots at anyone who doesn't conform to their way of thinking. even the name players who frequent the board seemed intent on joining this meaningless fray, and unconcerned about relaying information about strategy.
I may be a recreational player, but I do try to take the game seriously. I'm a recreational golfer, but I practice three times a week at the range. I'm a recreational fly fisher, but I still want to improve mywater reading and casting. You don't have to be a pro to want to improve in an activity.
So tell me...did I just take a bad few days to check out RGP, or is it always like that?
no
I do not even look at RGP anymore. This site, especially the sections on Holdem, is really cutting edge poker. In spite of my rantings and Vince Lepore's poetry, this site reamins 1st class. Clearly, I am not William Safire and Fly Boy Vince is not Robert Blake, but we try.
I agree with you, Ratso. I enjoy the banter about movies, music and flyfishing (especially flyfishing=-)), but I can find good information about poker theory and strategy here. when I get slammed here i can be pretty sure that it is because i played badly rather than because I am a "2+2 lover", or whatever label i fall into. This site isn't perfect, but it is where I can go to find and plug leaks in my game.
It seems like most who posts on RGP are pissed off ar something or someone. Here they have a sense of humor.
Ratso,
I would say more like a sense "for" humor.
Vince
I totally agree. I hadn't looked at RGP for about two months and then about two weeks ago I checked it out again and realized why I left in the first place. Completely useless. Yet if you read Cardplayer Magazine every writer says how good it is. No one mentions 2+2. An example of why it's also better to read Poker Digest as opposed to Cardplayer.
On average, only 2 or 3 out of the 25 most recent threads on RGP (as accessed thru Deja.com) deal with poker strategy or tactics. There is a lot of people bashing, trolling, and character assassinations, though. The most disturbing thing that I found at RGP is that some people actually make public e-mails that were meant to be private. I found this practice sickeningly amoral.
I'm coming out to the left coast to play in the Seniors at HP in mid October. Any suggestions as where to stay - I am not planning to get a car but will if necessary. I hope to see you and hopefully Big John and the any of the other posters I can.
Let's do lunch.
Mike
Rounder,
I'm not working at Hollywood Park anymore but if you call them the concierge shold be able to set you up at one of the decent hotels near the airport that HP has agreements with. They are about two or three miles away and the cost is about $50 per night. I think there is a shuttle deal going also.
Email me if you have any other questions and about getting together so we can work out the details. Or your people can call me people so we can "do lunch" ;-).
Regards,
Rick
Where is Hebron CT? I may have to attend training there, and I wanted to know a little about it. How far from NY city, Boston and Foxwoods/Mohegan Sun? Thanks
I think Hebron is just outside of Hartford, where Mom lives. Its a 2+ hour drive to Foxwoods. To get to NYC, it could take anywhere from 2.5-4 hours, depending on traffic.
Not sure about Boston, but probably around 3 hours by car.
I don't know.
Try www.mapquest.com
In addition to maps, it will also do driving directions. For Foxwoods, use North Stonington. For Mohegan, use Montville.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
It's a very small town in central CT. Almost two hours from NYC and Boston. Very close to Mohegan Sun...no more than 20 to 25 minutes away. To get to Foxwoods, add another 15 to 20 minutes.
Dear David,
We are all familiar with your logical side, but I'm wondering about your creative side. What do you have as a creative outlet? For instance, do you play a musical instrument? Do you paint(on canvas, not houses)? Are you an Origamy Master? What?
Thanks, Marjorie
The process of creating books like Holdem Poker and The Theory of Poker required extreme creativity. Sklansky had to think "out of the box" and use his "right brain" to come up with the original ideas presented there. Playing a musical instrument can be uncreative if you're just following the score. Painting can be uncreative if you're just copying a picture. Origami can be uncreative if you're just following instructions from some book. "Creative" is not determined by an activity. Creative is determined by how you process your thoughts when you're pursuing an activity.
Excuse me Mr Skinner but David doesn't have a right brain or left brain for tha matter. He has a whole brain. That's much better for his diet.
vince.
Good point. That's why he's a true genius. It's a shame that he is respected only within the poker community. He deserves better.
pm
David Sklasnky,
"Are you an Origamy Master? "
Oh! Yesss! David is known for his mastery of Qral Gamy. Just ask his good buddy (20 years of freindship)and fellow Poker authority. No silly not Mason, Tom McEvoy. David and McEvoy are currently locked in a tremendous battle for the top Oral Gamy position on RGP. Yes they are! In fact old Oral Gamy numero uno posts more on RGP than he does on 2 + 2. Maybe he's tired of the math. 2 + 2 get it, baybay. (That's Austin Powers for baby. Nothing sexist there honey, I mean sugar, oh! darlin; gee. I just can't win).
These two have really shown their creative nature via their Oral Gamy talents. McEvoy has called David an "egomaniac"; of all things. And David with great retort (like that "retort" John Cole?) David has said in so many words: "Your momma". Way to go Oz. He didn't really say that momma thing but I got the feeling that's what he meant. David sometimes has a tough time writing what he means. Just ask the third place Oral Gamy master, Gary Carson. He's jealous of Sklansky's Oral talents also. Well that's probably more than you wanted to know. David is very modest when it comes to bragging. So that's why he didn't ask me to mention how great an Oral Gamy guy he is but I did any way. Now would you like to know about Mason also?
Vince
"David is very modest when it comes to bragging."
ROFLMAO doesn't do this line justice. It is wicked funny.
"Now, would you like to know about Mason, too?"
Sure.
Mason created David. But it only took him 3 days.
Vince
You're a writer, sorry.
I didn't mean to imply that your books don't have an element of creativity to them, they do. Especially the terms you created to represent certain types of situations, like semi-bluffing, implied odds, etc... I guess that I think of you more as a teacher than a writer. No offence.
I just meant that I was curious to know what type of creative things you do in your free time aside from poker.
Invent games. Write phone sex scripts.
"Write phone sex scripts. "
David,
Shouldn't this read: "Make phone sex trips." Just trying to help.
Vince
/
Why did Crystal Park Casino discontinue their tournaments?
Are they phasing out all their poker?
Thanks, Ben
My sources told me that they were losing monsy on all their tournaments. They couldn't meet the guarantee.
Also, I went there at 7:00pm for the tourney which had been canceled, and there were only four low-limit poker tables going, two california blackjack type tables, and an asian game or two. It just looks like they're phasing out the casino portion of the hotel.
They were probably having a hard time getting people to a world-class hotel in Compton with the gambling stigma attached. This putative change should enable them to finally crack the 5-diamond club.
JG
It is a dump but what do you want for free - it would be nice if they did something about the roaches though.
:-)
"Why did Crystal Park Casino discontinue their tournaments?"
I really believe it was because Tom McEvoy was the host.
Vince
"I really believe it was because Tom McEvoy was the host."
Vince,
Could you elaborate a little on why that may be the reason? My only encounter with McEvoy was several months back when he filled in for one of Mike Caro's Tuesday-night sessions at Hollywood park, and he couldn't have been any nicer or more helpful.
Also, do you know if Crystal Park let him go?
-Don
Q: A couple intended to have 2 children. What is the probability that they will have one child of each sex?
The French mathematician D'Alembert analyzed this problem incorrectly claiming that all three outcomes (B,B; B,G; G,G) are "equally likely"
CV
And?
Vince
I just thought is was interesting that a simple probability question fooled this great mathematician.
This makes me think that the subjects we discuss on this site are harder to grasp than they first appear.
CV
actually this is not a simple probability question because there are biological components. first off, for our own species, one gender is more likely to be conceived than another (this I'm recalling from high school biology) -- more males are conceived but more females survive birth (males are more prone to genetic defects like hemophilia). secondly, a given male might be more likely to sire one gender over another. consequently, there are more batches of siblings comprised of the same gender than unadulterated probability (pun intended) would dictate.
I thought he just meant that the math weenie overlooked the fact that there are actuall 4 distinct outcomes, with equal probability (GG, BB, GB, BG).
But sometimes I oversimplify things. That's why I play poker instead of chess.
You might like super-blitz chess (Bullet)-- games are max 2 min. per side. You can also play 1 min. Bullet games or less. Not getting too complicated in these games--you generally don't have time to. I play on the ICC (www.chessclub.com).
I understand there is a Roulette progressive betting system named after D'Alembert as well.
Excalilbur
slow-motion of Excalibur spinning through the air, caught by extended hand of Lady-of-the-Lake, she pauses with sword upright, then pulls it straight down, glowing rising sun serves as witness, confers its blessing
Last of the Mohicans
camera drops to reveal Madeline Stowe seated wearing a bonnet in foreground; the audience granted that rarest glimpse of ABSOLUTE BEAUTY
Last ot the Mohicans
the last ten minutes, make that twenty minutes, make that 120 minutes, especially THE FORWARD ROLL and THE DOUBLE SHOT
Last of the Mohicans
Nathaniel and Nora in the woods en route to Fort Henry (or was it Fort McHenry? or was it Fort Edward? never mind). Nathaniel: "sorry to disappoint you" Nora (approximately?): "on the contrary, sir; I find this more deeply stirring to my blood than any imagining could ever have been."
Jurassic Park
final approach to the Island
Clueless
Alicia Silverstone in a short skirt, in a tight white short dress, in jeans, in pajamas etc etc etc
Star Wars
when I saw this for the first time in, what was it, 1977 that momentous opening sequence was unlike anything I'd seen on the big screen before if not since
Indiana Jones (Lost Ark)
Indiana faces a formidable swarthy adversary adroitly flourishing his gleaming scimitar...
Alan Ladd rides off into the sunset as that cute little kid chases far behind and cries out "Shane... come back Shane."
Two other Westerns:
Closeup of John Wayne in The Searchers as he leaves the room after checking if one of the two babbling girls is his niece; he says something like "They ain't white anymore."
Robert Vaughn as the alcoholic gunslinger in The Magnificent Seven. He grabs for six or seven flies on a table and turns over his hand to reveal a few. An onlooker is suitably impressed. Vaughn shakes his head and says sadly, "At one time, I would have had all of them."
Same movie: James Coburn as the knife slinger. A challenger says he can shoot faster than Coburn can throw the knife. Coburn just shakes his head.
Wil Wheaton pointing a gun straight at Keifer Sutherland in Stand By Me, "You gonna shoot us all, you won't have time." "No, Ace. Just you!"
Star Wars when Luke looks at the sunset that first night and Obi Wan's theme wells up around him.
In the Heat of the Night when Rod Steiger says, "I've got the motive which is money and I've got the body which is dead,"
Absence of malice, the entire scene with Wilford Brimley.
Color of Money with Tom Cruise playing pool to the Werewolves of London.
The scene in Rounders where Famke Jansen (don't remember character names) visits Matt Damon in his apartment. Any sexuality laced scenes with her in it leap to my top ten.
also,
"hey Dad...wanna have a catch?" from Field of Dreams. Kind of saccarine, but I eat up baseball stuff.
On 2d's note, the scene from Bull Durham where Susan Sarandon asks Kevin Costner what drives him, and he replies with a minute continuous mantra has got to be the second greatest baseball movie scene of all time... right behind the closing moments of The Natural. Dan
I was actualy going to write about that bull durham scene, but, given that I already wrote about the rounders scene, I didn't want to seem like some sicko. I am one, but I just don't want you guys to think it.
also the "Church of Baseball" opening to the same movie.
My favorite is a simple one from The Natural. When Robert Redford/Roy Hobbs says to Glenn Close at the end, "God, I love baseball."
I love baseball, too.
The Sting
Paul Newman during the poker scene -- how he gets Shaw's character's goat...and when he turns the tables and rakes in the dough. (the Shakesperian expression "hoisted by his own petard" comes to mind).
Henry V
Hal's rousing speech before the decisive battle at Agincourt
Romeo and Juliet (Zeferelli)
the balcony scene (cleavage ahoy!) also, there is a shot of Juliet -- in a white dressing gown or robe -- I remember the whiteness and rich contrast with her dark hair. then she, with an ardent intensity, turns in the direction of the camera...
The Lathe of Heaven
beautiful white steeds galloping over a snow-covered clearing or pasture
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
the Indian's breakout from the insane asylum
He’s a real Poker Man.
Playing all the hands he can.
Isn’t he a lot like me and you?
Doesn’t visit museums or the zoo.
Avoids sipping any kind of brew.
Poker Man just just wants the next hand.
Poker man, please listen,
There's other things you are missin.
Poker Man this world is really grand.
He’s a real poker man.
Bee cards are his favorite brand.
“Deal” is the only word he knows.
Doesn’t need any food or drink.
Takes a shower in the mens room sink.
Doesn’t care if his beard just grows and grows.
Poker man, please listen,
The real world is what your missin.
Please take your head from out of the sand.
He’s a real poker man.
Living in his green felt land.
Isn’t he so sad to me and you!
Vince
"living in his green felt land"...
Vince you really do have a creative talent. Your poems are fine raw material although unpolished Npow if you only learned the basics of poetry such as meter, etc...you might actually be able to produce some gems instead of diamonds in the rough.
Vince,
The Beatles, Cole Porter, and Bob Dylan. How about Gershwin next? I'm thinking of "Someone to Watch Over Me" or "Our Love Is Here To Stay." Waddya think?
John
I'll try.
It's very clear,
Poker is here
To stay.
Not for Just Mason,
But for all of us
I pray.
In time,
Sklansky may fumble,
Zee may mumble.
There getting old
And gray.
But, poker is here to stay.
That's all folks!
Vince
Vince,
In the future I would seriously consider disregarding Mr. Cole's suggestions.
Thanks for your help.
Mary
Mary, Darling, you didn't like this one! Oh. Woe is me. woe is me. And I thought it was pretty good on such a short notice. Not even Sklansky fumble or Zee mumble? Gee.
Vince
I have recently been reading an excellent book about an ethnobotanists search for medicinal plants in Amazonia and the quest to preserve the native peoples knowledge of the plants in their region. It is entitled "Tales of a Shaman's Apprentice" and is by Mark J. Plotkin. Highly recommended.
Anyway, in the book he recalls a quote by Einstein that I thought related nicely to poker, especially those of us whom like to study the game:
"Chance favors the prepared mind."
KJS
"The harder I work they luckier I get."
Or in the words of my Marine Corps Drill Instructior
"Proper Preperation Prevents Piss Poor Perfofmance"
Is there something in the archives or can someone do a quick rundown on some of the regular posters to these forums so I have an idea of who you guys are? It might help me sort out whom to accept advice from and what your 'qualifications' are.
See response on other Forum. We generally avoid posting the same question on more than one forum.
Take a look at the Master's home page.
http://www.johnpatrick.com/
So you want to be a Gambler?
CV
The following are cut and pasted quotes taken out of context from the above web site. In my mind it is sad that so many people are willing to pay for such erroneous advice, and even sadder for those who blindly follow his tips in the hopes of becoming winning experts. The poor man (well, maybe rich by now) doesn't even appear to know what a gambling expert really is. Quotes follow:
"John Patrick is unquestionably one of the most dominant forces in the world of gambling today. For 10 years, he was the host of his own national cable TV show, "SO YOU WANNA BE A GAMBLER", which aired weekly on Financial News Network (FNN) and attracted a large lose in the casinos and at sports.
"There are only two kinds of gamblers", Patrick states unequivocally: "Experts and Dopes. If you're not and Expert, you should stay away from the games."
"I was wrong on all counts.........I was losing because I was a dork. I'd get ahead and give the profits back. Then on"
"I had no clue about the Reality of gambling, about the fact that no matter how much you knew about the game, your chances of winning was never better than 50-50. I never set a Win Goal, never dreamed of setting a Loss Limit and never considered setting aside a profit on the days I did magage to get ahead.
Maybe you don't do that today. Well if you don't, you'll go into the same tank I did. until you realize the importance of two things:
1) SET AND FOLLOW LOSS LIMITS 2) ACCEPT SMALL RETURNS
"Let's go to another thing that gnaws at me............pertaining to advice given by people who just don't get it. It is the second part of that stupid quotation that was started in TIP # 8: "Always split aces and eights..........." Of all the gar-bage, this ranks right up there.
I hit my two aces vs a dealers 9, 10, j, q, k, ace/ Sometimes you see yourself getting an ace /four and an ace 3 vs the dealers jack, after you split. You're finished vs that power card. If you hit the aces in that situation, you'd have one solid hand of 19 and be in the hunt.
One thing will have you heating up the tar and feathers on my firont lawn. You'll hit the two aces and get dealt two tens, giving you a bust hand of 22 instead of two 21's. You will incur the wrath of the whole table. Big deal, in the long run, the logic of splitting aces with a one card draw vs the dealers power cards is lost on me."
END QUOTES BY JOHN PATRICK\
M says:
Well, I saw a hapless player do just this at the Stardust. He caught a King and a Queen and busted his Aces. He sat there shaking his head. I didn't realize he just might have been following an "expert's" advice in so doing.
I think S,M&Z are doing a real service to the gambling community at large along with Mike Caro. It wasn't too long ago that there were almost no good poker books available, actually, and very few gamblers had an idea of "expected value" let alone more advanced concepts. Kudos also to Bob Ciaffone and all others who are genuinely sharing serious material of solid value. I don't know what can be done about misinformation but at least it is shrinking in proportion to real information.
I am reminded of my own early experiences trying to become a Professional Card Counter (before I started studying Poker). I mastered the Revere APC and spent a couple months in AC in the 80's playing solo. Such a grind for one undercapitalized to make real headway over living expenses. Then I read about Jerry Patterson's Target System (since more or less discredited). It all rather made sense and I tried it after purchasing the course. I made a profit, though small, and deluded myself into thinking it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. On my first trip to the Vegas BJ tables it didn't work at all. Overall, an expensive and depressing experience. Ever since then I have felt that sellers of gambling information have an especial moral duty to make sure their advice is sound. People worse off than myself have undoubtedly lost more with less chance of recovery--I was only 27 or 28 at the time.
This is one reason I feel it is perfectly all right to not only question the advice of so-called gambling authorities, but to question them on an open forum where their inaccurate advice can be dissected.
Sorry this post is so long-winded...the reader was warned.
Beauty is worth the time it takes to ingest it. Thanks M for a beautiful post. BTW - I went through a similar experience with Revere's APC. In AC I might add, during the 80's. Thank god something overcame me and I was able to give up the tedium of card counting.
Vince
%
The blackjack quotes are unbelievable. Call me crazy but shouldn't "gambling experts" be familiar with basic strategy? Geez, it would only take an hour or so.
,,,,,,,,,,
Here’s how two (-EV games ) turn into a winner
The Spanish physicist Juan Parrondo has discovered an amazing paradox.
The object of each game is to win $500 before you lose $500.
You start each game with a capital of 0.
Consider the following two games.
======================
Game 1
You flip a coin that will come up tails 51% of the time and heads 49% of the time.
You lose a dollar when it comes up tails.
You win a dollar when it comes up heads.
We can all see that you’re a huge favorite to lose $500 before you win $500 almost all the time.
==========================
Game 2
Here we use two coins, let’s call them BadNews and GoodNews.
BadNews comes up heads only 10% of the time and tails 90% of the time.
GoodNews comes up heads 75% and tails 25%.
The rule of this game is:
Divide your present capital by 3.
If you can divide by 3 evenly (that is, you get no remainder ) you must flip the BadNews coin.
Examples: (-6 -3 0 3 6 ) are all evenly divisible by 3.
Otherwise, you flip the GoodNews coin.
Again, you lose a dollar when it comes up tails and You win a dollar when it comes up heads.
In this game you’re also a huge favorite to lose $500 before you win $500 almost all the time.
=======================================
Now for the weird part.
If you alternate between playing game 1 and game 2 randomly, and play both games from the same capital, you’re a huge favorite to end up PLUS $500.
We await practical applications, if any.
I think there is a flaw here somewhere. According to my math, game 2 is profitable.
Game 3 is also profitable but less profitable than game 2.
Game 1 is clearly unprofitable.
I don't see a paradox here.
Let's say in game 2 that we will spend 1/3 of the time playing where the toss will make us a 90:10 underdog, and 2/3 of the time we will be a 75:25 favorite.
In 300 tosses, we will have 100 where we are underdog - we win 10 and lose 90.
The other 200 we will be the winner - we win 150 and lose 50.
Net = 150-50-90 = 10. So over 300 tosses we win 10 dollars.
So where is the paradox?
-SmoothB-
Our net win is 20 dollars over 300 tosses.
I forgot to include the 10 we win for every 100 tosses when we must toss the one that makes us a 90:10 underdog.
-SmoothB-
it's not quite that simple. you have to look at game 2 keeping in mind your capital mod 3.
starting at 3n, you have to look the odds of getting to 3n+3 before falling to 3n-3. that way you are looking at a bigger game where the win/loss is three, but the trials are independent.
because of the way the game is structured i am sure you fall to 3n-3 more than 3n+3. intuitively it is obvious. but it shouldn't be too hard to compute. i just dont want to.
the reason game three is +ev is that you use game 1 to ranodmly reset game 2. you correctly discovered that game 2 is immediately +ev if you start randomly. and it is more +ev than game 1 is -ev.
so game 3 is plus ev.
scott
scott,
I haven't seen you post much on poker lately. Are you still playing much and if so try to post some hands. If not I'd like to see more of your thoughts anyway.
Rick
i know i have been posting less. i have been busy with classes and drunken revelry. i have been playing (up to 15-30 and expect to be up to 20-40 by the time i visit la in january) when i get a chance. maybe i will post some hands. we'll see.
i have heard some new music that i like. moby does a pretty good of sampling from blues and jazz stuff. and oar has a song "that was a crazy game of poker" which is good too.
scott
There at is again - S&M, McEvoy, Badger, Carson(who cares) etal - have another donnybrook going on RGP mostly useless BUT reading it I thought an interesting thought.
I have never "I mean never" met a successful gambler who wasn't very intelligent and successful in other walks of life.
I happen to (once) have a 140 IQ measured 3 times 136, 140 and 142 so I say it's 140 OK.
I am sure I don't have 140 any longer age, a terrible beating by 7 Portugese cops and to many hang overs in the 60's 70's & 80's probably shaved 25 points off it.
Guess the question is have any of you known a very good player who was not very bright and successful in other walks of life.
I know a couple of people who became good players because they had a good work ethic even though they are not very smart. Their persistence and desire to work hard was able to make up for their other deficiences. However, in general you are right.
By the way, I also know some very smart people who are not that successful for just the opposite reason. They are simply lazy.
I've known some very smart people who couldn't get and/or hold on to a job. I'm not sure if it's lazy or they spend so much of their energy learning stuff rather than doing.
JohnnyD
Maybe, they just don't want to kiss ass. They'd rather be their own bosses by starting a business or by playing poker.
I'd love to hear the story of you getting beat up by the Portuguese cops.
Ditto. I've heard rumors that Portuguese cops will only work over the most intelligent foreigners. I'm wondering what Rounder's "tell" was.
x
How do you define success?
"Knowin how to spend it!!"
Paulie (from The Pope of Greenwich Village, one of my all-time favorites)
I don't post on RGP. I go in there about once a month just to see what's going on. Too much crap and laughable Jerry Springer-like stuff to sift through (although there is obviously some worthwhile stuff in there as well).
Half the threads and posts seem to be about Sklansky's SAT scores. I have no idea why that has been a hot topic at RGP for what seems like months. I don't know why David feels compelled to keep commenting on the subject.
Another thing...David seems to post way more often on RGP than he does here. And his posts there are much more in-depth. Here, he usually leaves a lot of elaboration for others:)
Hey David, get rid of RGP from your bookmarks and post here a lot more as you should.
skp,
I agree with you but I think it's like David's "rap station" over there and he seems to enjoy it for now.
paul
Interesting post. Most successful gamblers all seem to have a lot of common sense and street smarts. I find most of them to be intelligent, bright people. However, I don't think the opposite is nearly as true. I know a lot of very poor players who are away from the tables bright, intelligent people with multiple degrees. I am sure you all know several doctors, attorneys, etc. who can't play a lick. Some of that may be because they really don't care, but I think a lot of them even if they tried would be clueless.
Bruce
This is an interesting issue. I know some folks who are, as Bruce describes financially successful but don't play well. I think it is in part because at the limits they play, nothing more than $10-$20, they can't ever get bitten so bad in a session that it impacts them too much in the wallet. To them, it's more gambling than playing poker and they'd rather lose it playing poker than slots but aren't all that concerned at the end of the day in any event.
In terms of intelligence, while I agree that a work ethic is key, I do think--basing this solely on anecdotal evidence--that good poker players are more intelligent than the average bear. The math and so forth requires it. And, by way of example, just look at the topics discussed here, granted it sometimes devolves, but unfortunately precious few people spend time discussing classical music, plays, even movies outside the mainstream the way folks here do.
I think street smarts are also key, but that's true with most things, not just cards.
"Some of that may be because they really don't care, but I think a lot of them even if they tried would be clueless."
When you come right down to it, it is not all that difficult to become a winning player. While we may like to pretend that poker is like rocket science, it really isn't all that difficult.
Any bright person who tries (i.e. studies the game) and has a modest control of tilt will no doubt become a good poker player. He may not necessarily become a great or even a very good player who understands all of the nuances of the game but he certainly can win close to 1 small bet per hour.
The reasons why the HE games throughout the continent remain good are that:
1. There are a lot of players who are not very bright
2. There are a lot of players, who though bright, play poker for fun and don't *really* care if they win or lose as long as they are not getting spanked at the tables on a daily basis.
3. There are a lot of players who are bright, study the game but are too prone to tilt.
Bottom line: Poker is just not that hard to get good at (although it is difficult to master it).
This fits well with Mason's statement that it is pretty easy to win up to $10/hour or so in poker, but it is very hard to win $30+/hour in poker (long-term).
Not everybody is willing to spend the time to learn to play well and occasional players come to gamble even if they know better. It certainly isn't any fun to wait for hands.
Fun - it is over rated.
Grinding is the way to poker profits.
And grinding ain't FUN.
x
>>I am sure you all know several doctors, attorneys, etc. who can't play a lick. <<
Of course there are many that can. Think about all of the time that professionals like doctors and lawyers (as well as many other occupations) devote to being good at their profession's and I think it is pretty easy to understand why poker is just a recreational activity to many people.
My question was about successful poker players being high IQ guys not hi IQ guys being good poker players one does not = the other.
I agree with you but the post I was responding to (bruce's post) seemed to wonder why some professional people play poorly and don't take the game seriously.
I've got a business/golf trip set up from October 6 -16. Will be in Vegas/Mesquite/Laughlin from Oct 6-11, then heading for SoCal from 12-15. Dates approximate and subject to slight changes on the whims of how successful I am with the advertising clients I am meeting while there. Would like to meet fellow 2+2 posters in Vegas early in the trip. Am staying in the LA area with friend who plays mostly at the Commerce, I think, but I will have rental car and would like to see a couple of the other 'palaces' in the LA area while in town.
Let's do lunch. I'm a really bad golfer, will need lots of shots (hehehehe). Who's going to be around that would like to get show the Canuck the bright lights?
Dunc I'll bei s LA around the 16th for a tournament at Hollywood Park. Any chance you'll be in town at the same time.
I will have to be driving back to Laughlin on Sunday, Oct 15th to catch my flight on the 16th. Sounds like we will just miss each other unless you are in town a couple of days early. Let me know.
I live in Downey but I've only been here a few months. I won't be able to show you around (what would I show you?) but I'd like to meet you regardless. I play pretty much at the Commerce exclusively. If you'd like to arrange something drop me an email.
To the cashier's cage I wandered,
There in Binion's, stood and pondered
On the fortune I had squandered just one fretful night before
There he stood, the poker master
Who had spelled my fell disaster,
Disaster struck and left me standing broken there on Binion's floor
Nothing left to do but stand alone and broken on that floor
T'was that lucky Vince Lepore!
Closer then to me then he wandered
Tried to look away - I floundered
Thinking only nothing but the misr'y of the night before
My only thoughts resided on that hellish misr'y from before
Lost my bankroll to Lepore!
Night before we had been playing
No limit overs, 40-80
Dealt pocket aces and my heart was beating faster than it had before
Raised his blind - thought I was stealing
Raised again - oh how appealing!
Popped and repopped more and more till capped - would let us raise no more
There in overs we were playing
For a rag flop I was praying
Praying, praying harder, harder than I ever had before
Never had I prayed so hard as I did on that night before
That unsuspecting Vince Lepore!
The flop came down - and I was sweating
The flop was disconnected and all babies
None of this I'm sure was in the hands of that pro Vince Lepore
He made a small bet - prob'ly fearing
That indeed I'd not been stealing
Stealing the blinds of that crummy little bastard Vince Lepore
With a rag flop - ten six four!
I raised all in - with no slowplaying
Too much at stake - don't want him drawing
Or sucking out against this hand that was so sure to bust Lepore
He called my raise - did he have something?
This was no joke - he wasn't mucking
Called and turned his hand to show me what I wasn't hoping for
He turned and showed the hand that sent me walking, broken to the door
He flopped a lousy set of fours!
-SmoothB-
The line 'crummy little bastard Vice Lepore' was in no way meant to be offensive. This poem was written with the highest respect to Mr. Lepore.
I would also like to thank Howard Stern for channeling the spirit of Edgar Allen Poe to assist me with this work.
-SmoothB-
In the words hymmed like the master.
Words spoken better faster than faster.
Resounding as the tide on the Ocean shore.
No offense was taken, Let there be no mistaken,
My gratitude is yours for evermore!
Vince.
SmoothB,
I love the Raven. Great parody. Thanks.
It's the time of year again when poker rooms run football pools - where you get a ticket with 2 digits on it, and for any quarter score, you win if your 2 digits match the last digits of the game's score.
I posted these results last year, but I just now got around to writing an article based on them. Look at Football Pool Number Statistics on my poker page.
Here are the percentages that each number appears in football scores. The first column is for the end of the first quarter; the second column is for the end of the game.
Enjoy. Dick
I've been busy writing on my poker page. I have written my "review" of the opening of Casino Arizona's new building, which includes a very nice 50-table poker room, on my page. Here it is: Casino Arizona's New Building
Dick
just wondering about other S & M regulars who attended college and what the experience was like (intellectually speaking). are you dads and moms ready and willing to commit $50,000 per kid so they can follow suit? also, what do you think of doctors' training? do you trust them?
Why blow $50,000 on some Teen who doesn't even know exactly who they are yet. I've read in one of my College Psychology books that most humans aren't even Critical Thinkers till they are in their mid-twentys.
By the way, I'm putting myself through a 4-year degree program at Boise State College for less than 12,000 in tuition. I would never pay $50,000+ for some private school. (I haven't taken any English 101 yet, can you tell?)
I say let your children work without a Degree for a couple years after Highschool. I think they will really come to appreciate a College Degree and will want to learn. The Highschool grads going to college with me who use Daddy's money for school really don't study as hard, on average, as the people who are putting themselves through school.
Later,
Chris
are the professors just going through the motions? do you get to interact with them?
I had a full scholarship out of high school, so money wasn't the issue; I subsequently became disenchanted (at several different venues). my biggest complaint is that the four-year universities use the undergrads to subsidize the graduate schools and professorial research. abominable. but then I'm for radically revising our educational methodology beginning in elementary school.
I can talk to all my profs if I want to. Today I was disscussing Elk hunting with my Logic Teacher. There always seems like plenty of time to get in touch with them.
The only thing I hate about campus is that the parking is terrible.
Chris
You have it backwards. Universities take 50 percent OR MORE *FROM* research professor's grant money and allocate it to the general fund. This money is used to fund departments that can't bring in enough money on their own - languages, arts, etc.
Even at expensive private colleges, tuition does not come close to covering the cost of an undergraduate education! The rest of the money comes from research grants, donations, endowment (in the case of private colleges) and the government (in the case of public universities.)
I will admit that most research professors look at undergraduate teaching as a necessary evil they must endure in order to get their research done. Grad students usually look at their teaching loads the same way.
But you should not be confused about the money issue - undergrad tuition money is NOT used to fund research programs.
-SmoothB-
(long term veteran of the academic system [5 purple hearts] )
alright, maybe not directly. but without the undergraduates forming the base of the pyramid, there is no structure.
by the way, who is responsible for luring all those football fans into the stadium? the professors? and where does all the revenue generated from these events wind up? not in the pockets of the athletes...
I'm not even going to talk about college athletics because it sickens me that too many colleges and universities care more about this kind of crap than they do about educating students.
I will also make it a point that MOST colleges and universities make very little from their athletic programs. The exeptions would be the big sports schools like the Big Ten, etc. etc.
As for undregraduates forming the base of the pyradimd - that depends! What school are you talking about? This is obviously true for colleges that have little or no graduate programs, and a few others that do. But for most universities, undergraduate education is just one small piece of the big pie. The fact is that 90+ percent of all people THINK that it is the most important component of the university system because they only went to school for an undergraduate degree, or didn't go at all.
There are so many more layers to the onion, though.
Off topic, it is absolutely critical that every willing and capable student be given the access to college, one way or another. This is often not the case. Parents, in my opinion, have an obligation to do whatever they can to see to it that a willing and capable child has access to college.
If you aren't willing to send your kids to college then don't have them. Or be willing to accept the fact that it has been statistically proven that kids that go to college are:
1) More likely to make more money
2) More likely to enjoy their jobs
3) Have more jobs to choose from
4) Are more likely to get married if they choose to
5) Are more likely to be HAPPY
These have been statistically proven. If you don't think any of those things are important then save your money and don't send your kid to college.
-SmoothB-
Mark and others,
I attended a large research institution (University of Illinois) and now teach at one (University of Colorado) while pursuing my Ph.D.
Mark brings up some good points about undergraduate education subsidizing graduate education and research. This is partially true. Most research is funded through grants. However it is, of course, subsidized by the University through the provision of facilities and through salaries that are calculated based on a certain amount of research work.
For many, the large university experience is frustrating (for both the student and the teacher). It is easy for a student to become lost and feel neglected at a large research university. It is also frustrating for an instructor to have students who are just there on daddy's money (in my case here in Colorado so they can go ski) and do not put any thought into their own education and simply want you to pass them and go away.
That said, large research universities certainly can be wonderful places to learn. I've always called it a cafeteria style education. If you just walk down the aisle and take what's offered to you, you will learn some things, but probably not get as nutritious a meal as you would have if you carefully picked out what you wanted to eat. You can do this at a large university. If a student takes the time to select class that he or she is really interested in and takes the time to go talk to professors and actually try to learn from them rather than trying to simply pass their exams then the educational experience can be wonderful. Within any field there are internships and research opportunities available to undergrads but few even bother to find out if they are there.
If you just take what they give you and go through the motions then you end up uneducated but with a degree and afterwards probably in some unfulfilling job.
If a kid is motivated then he will do well, if he isn't it's probably a waste of time. Some kids find what they really love in college, many would probably be a lot better off if they had to go and work for a few years before deciding that they really wanted to go.
Paul Talbot
RE medical school, doctors' training, there is an interesting article in the current (this week's so maybe not current anymore) The New Republic about this. It's available online at www.tnr.com
It was a total waste of time for me, except for the development of writing skills. I have certainly never used anything else I "learned" there out in the real world. Other than that I just drank beer for seven years. Thank God the political correctness movement hadn't started yet.
If you know what you want to do it's great, esp. if you're going into a technical field, but if you're looking to "find yourself" or "develop critical thinking skills", look somewhere else.
A summer on a cattle ranch would've been much more beneficial for me.
I went back to the front (as I'm fond of saying) when I was 30 ostensibly to complete my B.A. Spent much of the 2 years in hand-to-hand combat with several of my alleged teachers. in spite of these dunderheads, I did my best to make the most of it. was able to participate on a honeybee-extirpation project on Santa Cruz Island (one of the Channel Islands off the California coast). [a single colony of honeybees had been left behind ca.1890 and swarmed amuck. the indigenous solitary bees were becoming marginalized and pesky floral invaders like wild mustard and fennel had concomitantly flourished to the detriment of the local species. we were trying to help turn back the clock.]
one of the best choices I ever made was to backpack through Europe when I was 23 for 2 months followed by 3 months of voluntary servitude on a kibbutz, and I definitely agree that university life can't measure up to that splendid sojourn of the soul...
Man your post really bothers me. I have taught 3 lecture classes in organic chemistry while a graduate student and you remind me of something.
Sure there are always a few problem students. Some of the worst are young kids who just want to drink beer every day and never study. They are easily dealt with - they flunk! By far, the vast majority of students are not like this.
But there is another kind of student who is almost as big of a pain in the ass. These are the 'older' students.
These are people who probably fell into the 1st category when they were young. Now they have decided to come back and finish their degree. Good for them! But they return as know it alls.
Great, you wandered around the world and saw everything and became 'enlightened'. Now you have come back to college with a chip on your shoulder. You think all of your professors are 'dunderheads'. And you especially resent the ones who, like me, are younger than you.
Somehow in the last 10 years you became superior to us. Fact is, you were an underachiever the first time around, now you want to tell us what college is supposed to be like?
I'll take the beer drinking kid over your kind any day of the week! If you aren't learing anything from those clueless dunderheaded college professors then get the hell out! And take your superior know-it-all 'I tromped around the world and did hippie shit for 10 years and now I'm Jesus Christ' attitude with you!
-SmoothB-
Smooth,
You really need to take it easy. for all you know Mark's profs could be dunderheads. As for ad hominem attacks, it is quite obvious from your condescending and long winded posts that you are in some sort teaching position. It is precisely your bad attitude that engenders Mark's bad attitude. I have a graduate degree from a top tier institution and the whole "I'm a professor here so kiss my ass" attitude does nothing for promoting an intellectual atmosphere.
Some professors, even at top tier institutions like the one where I obtained my PhD in chemistry, have this attitude. Most do not.
Most students are great. A few are a pain in the ass. I could tell you stories that you would never believe about great teachers who tried very hard to reach out to students, but who had a handful of troublemakers ruin the learning atmosphere.
I can't believe that there is a college in this country where ALL of the professors are dunderheads. Rather, there are some asshole students out there who would consider all of their profs to be dunderheads at ANY institution. This is clearly the student's problem.
Students who think that all of their profs are dunderheads must be miserable and should leave immediately. They only ruin things for themselves, the prof, and the other students, most of whom have good intentions.
This guy actually said something about how he was locked in hand to hand combat with his profs when he returned to college! Does this reflect a positive attitude? No. This guy is one of the assholes I am refering to.
-SmoothB-
SmoothB
I don't know where you teach, but, being one of the "older" students I can tell you that most of us are scared to death. Returning to college after 10 or 20 years out of school is not an easy task. I was convinced I would never be able to be competitive in today's college environment. I'm sure I appeared to be stuck up, but I would not consider a prof to be anything more or less than someone who has more formal education than I do.
Mary
Your profs do have more formal education than you do, but they have something else. They have proven that they are a cut above in their field. Even at lower tiered schools, almost all of the professors have PhD's, and most of them got them from top notch schools.
A PhD is very difficult to obtain. It takes a lot of discipline.
I understand that many older students are scared to death. I have taught many in my classes. They get frustrated when they find that a freshman level chemistry class requires that they recall the algebra that they forgot 10 years ago. Most haven't had to read hundreds of pages of material in a week for a long time, if ever.
Many older students return to college knowing that they are rusty and that they will have to work a little harder than the kids who have just gotten out of high school to stay ahead. These people tend to do well.
Others look down on the kids and their 'lack of experience' and get confused when the kids beat the pants off them in freshman level classes. These are the older students who are a pain in the ass.
This is what happens:
Older student to Prof: I just can't understand why I'm not doing well. I got an A in general chemistry when I took it 12 years ago.
Prof: I know it's tough to go back school when you've been away from it awhile. Maybe you are just out of practice when it comes to studying effectively. I can help you with your study skills and help point out the things to focus on.
Older Student (largely ignoring prof, starting to cry) But it's just so hard! I have 2 kids at home blah blah blah blah....
Notice that the prof tried to help and the student totally ignored him. The student wanted to bitch and get some extra credit - not learn how to do better.
THIS CONVERSATION ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE BETWEEN ME AND A STUDENT.
I have had similar convos with MANY students.
Trust me I have had a LOT of experience in this matter.
Been there, done that.
-SmoothB-
SmoothB
Seems to me that you have a problem with older students. I get the distinct impression that your attitude toward them may directly contribute to their attitude toward you. Many older students have lives that gotten in the way of completion of a degree. (My case: quad by-pass, two strokes, bilateral fem-pop by-passes and a bowel infarction just for entertainment.) When I went back to school I didn't whine or cry when things got tough. I asked questios, got answers, and when the answers didn't make sense I asked more questions. Quite frankly I have yet to encounter the kind of adult student you described. Just lucky I guess.
Mary
More on the subject:
You also must understand something that many older students seem to fail to grasp - they are not alone in their situation. Professors have dealt with 'non traditional' IE older students before. We know what you are going through. And most of us can offer you very helpful advice about how to cope.
When I taught, I made numerous handouts that dealt not only with the subject matter, but also with techniques for getting the most out of your studying time. Many of my students read these, learned a lot, and thanked me. I helped them in ALL of their classes. Most students threw them in the trash. So it goes.
Most professors REALLY WANT their students to do well! I know I certainly did. It was partly an ego thing, I'll admit it. But my efforts were sincere.
I'll share one little morsel of wisdom with you. If you are struggling in a class, NEVER go to the professor and ask for extra credit. This really pisses profs off, if I am representative of most teachers.
This shows that all you want is the grade. Instead, go to the prof. Bring the homework that you've done. Bring your exams. Tell the prof what you are having trouble understanding. Try to get him/her to give you advice on how to study better, or on how to understand better.
And if you don't have any homework to bring with you, well, I think you can figure out the rest.
If you do this, you show genuine interest in your own education. If you show that YOU care, it is more likely that the prof will care. Maybe the prof will offer to let you do some extra credit.
-SmoothB-
Never needed to ask for extra credit work. 37credits combo law and nursing, 4.0 GPA.
Mary
In the current issue of Poker Digest (which has just hit the west coast) my column is called "Keeping Poker Honest." I believe that it is very important and ask that all of you read it and feel free to post any comments here.
Mason,
How coincidental. I just finished lurking up on RGP. Your best "hate you Mason" monger has begun the attack. And just what is it that prompted Badger to refer to you as one of the lower life forms. Your Poker digest article. I have not read it. When I went up to RGP, Badger had just posted his Mason is a bum thread and it was being filled with responses. Mostly favoring you I should say. I did not respond. Badger is not worth the effort. Things will probably get better up there Barbara Yoon and Gary Carson haven't got there teeth into it yet. I can't wait. It's better than the Enquirer. Badger just about accuses you of everything except sleeping with Hillary Clinton. It's a good thing he didn't beacause I would have set him straight. Sleeping with first ladys is David's job!
vince
All in all, I think it is one of Mason's best columns.It took guts to say some of the things Mason said and I hope everyone gets a chance to read it.
Good Luck
Howard
Excellent article. I was very happy to read it and couldn't agree with you anymore. Unfortunately it is going to be almost impossible to implement your ideas. It has always been my contention that it is unethical in both ring games and tournamnents for multiple players to have a piece of one another. I don't care what anyone says, it threatens the integrity of the game. It's that plain and simple. No matter how ethical most players are, when you have a common financial interest the possibilty for collusion, no matter how subtle becomes too stong.
Bruce
" No matter how ethical most players are, when you have a common financial interest the possibilty for collusion, no matter how subtle becomes too stong."
Yes, even though you will have very honest, ethical players who may go out of their way not to alter their play based on their financial links to other players, it is still one step away from playing independently. And there will always be some players who will not be so ethical.
1. To many columns/articles that perpetuate inaccurate perceptions about what good poker play is. Example: the latest Poker Digest issue's John Vorhaus article and Lee Munzer interview.
2. Not enough critical analysis of poker play. Why don't any of the authors covering poker tournaments actually analyse the play instead of just reporting it? I want to see more articles on specific hands that were played and why the various bets, raises, etc. were the correct/incorrect play.
3. To much space devoted to advertising the "feature cardroom". Why not put a good poker article in there instead.
4. Not enough coverage of the major poker events, specifically hand analysis (or at least reporting) at the final table.
5. No book/product reviews.
There's probably a bunch of others but it's really early in the morning and I just got back from "work" (playing poker).
# 3, without advertising you wouldn't have a need to post your concerns.
The Suburban Poker Man
what do you expect for free??? The Wall Street Journal of Poker???
If it wheren't for the tournament schedules and results I wouldn't bother - articles are recycled crap look at the tripe some of these guys are writing about. Eneough to make a billy goat puke.
.
There simply isn't all that much high-level accurate advice printed every month to fill a magazine. SMZ, Caro, Ciaffone and Cooke need time to play poker and have a life too. Eliminating other writers would just result in a thinner magazine.
Suggestion: One thing someone could do is double-check the accuracy of the less-than-expert writers, though. There is nothing wrong with low-level articles aimed at lower-limit players per se. In fact it fills a large niche--most players are low-limit rec. players. However, gross inaccuracies such as the one brought up by Jim Brier re. Lee Jones' recent advice on the play of a hand are really shocking, and I think it would be a good thing if the publisher could avoid publishing errors of this magnitude. Some erroneous advice can be very expensive to people to follow. Contrast this with low-limit advice that is OK, perhaps just a bit incomplete. OK advice isn't great, but it is OK for low-limit. Truly bad advice is really horrible. So what I am suggesting is this:
that any gambling advice article written by a non-expert be reviewed solely for significant errors by a paid reviewer who is an expert. The magazine could bear the added expense if they wish to be reasonably sure that they are not assisting in the spreading of seriously erroneous advice and information. I think both writers and publishers have an ethical responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure the accuracy of advice which they are dispensing. People can and do risk their lifestyles and/or life savings on such advice. At least, even low-limit players may be risking their paychecks. There is a real moral responsibility when it comes to disseminating gambling advice.
"To many columns/articles that perpetuate inaccurate perceptions about what good poker play is. Example: the latest Poker Digest issue's John Vorhaus article and Lee Munzer interview."
I generally agree with you on Munzer and Vorhaus, I was wondering if you could be a little more specific.
From Oct 6-19 Poker Digest:
John Vorhaus' Killer Poker. "You've seen this happen: A player catches a few cards and suddenly he's on fire. On every hand, he's in there with a bet and a raise and another raise after that. If you try to slow him down by playing back at him, he just plays back at you, leaving you feeling vulnerable and attacked; in short, shell-shocked. He's on a bombing run, and as long as the run lasts, he has a tremendous advantage over you." He the continues on by recommending that you leave this game.
JV also doesn't seem to understand the inherent standard deviation in tournaments. Overall in the article, he presents poker as a game of outwitting and dominating your opponents. That is a minor factor in my experience.
Lee Munzer interview with John Thompson. "LM: Can you give us an example of adopting the gambler mentality? JT: ...However, if several players are straddling and someone says, 'Hey John, it's your turn to straddle', I don't even hesitate...I just smile and flip four chips forward because I'm one of them. If I have to throw a bet or two away on the river...so what?" There went his positive expectation.
"JT: You're going to muck 10 or 12 hands, then come after them with a quality hand like QQ or AK. Even though we're both getting 7-to-1 on our money (less the higher percentage of blind money you're losing), I'm getting more choices of flops. Since we both can outplay them from the flop to the river, I prefer my way. You aren't going to like it when you hold one of these premium hands, the flop comes 10-8-6 and there's a bet and a raise to you." I still like my AA-JJ. "I might play 9-7 and love that flop." You might like A97 too but I'll love it when I have AA and take your money. "In these games when you hold superior starting hands (since these guys are going to the river), you need to almost flop a monster." If they are going to the river, how are you outplaying them with crap and you don't flop anything? I guess when you play 9-7 one pair is good enough to win, but with AA you need a set.
Why doen't Munzer interview someone who can play instead of a low limit guy who gives hideous advice? How about Ray Zee? Ted Forrest? TJ Cloutier (tournament advice only please)?
One problem with these mags is that they have no useful content. I can find more interesting postings here in one given day than I have seen in either Poker Digest or Card Player in the last YEAR!
There have been a very few good articles in there - but many of those good ones are just a rehash of things in the 2+2 publications. Or, in the case of a couple 2+2 books, they are excerpts taken directly from the books unchanged!
I am not knocking either 2+2 or the authors of these articles BTW.
I can remember maybe 3 or 4 articles that really gave me something to think about in the last year.
-SmoothB-
Since it's inception, I have written new material for Poker Digest.
I should have given a little credit where it is due - I think those mags DO print some articles that are useful to some very elementary beginner types. But for those of us that have read the 2+2 books there isn't much of interest.
I think many beginners could greatly benefit from a thorough cover to cover reading.
-SmoothB-
Actually, I agree with what you say. There is one value that you may have overlooked. It is when you read one of the "weak" articles, what mistakes and incorrect logic are you able to see? There is much value when playing poker to not only understand what you opponent may be thinking, but to also understand what misconceptions their thinking may operate under.
I concur with Mason's response. I have read almost every 2+2 book (maybe I'm still missing Blackjack Essays), and I didn't "recognize" any of the articles by David, Mason, or Ray.
Articles that I recognized as absolute unchanged copies of book chapters were by Roy West and Doyle Brunson. Perhaps other posters have noticed others.
The books by Roy Cooke and John Feeney consist of collected articles, so even though you see the article in both places, it's not a criticism.
Dick
A lot of the "authors" have made "names" for them selves by winning a big one 10-15 years ago and become some sort of expert - most are out of gas and out of new Ideas. I've played with some of them and must say I'm unimpressed. Without mentioning any names. These are mostly nice guys - there is a guy "writing" on an internet page - this guy is a 1st class tournament reporter BUT his analysis and strategy articles suk big time.
You have to be careful taking free advice it just might be worth what is costs.
Some of these guys have as much business writing advice collumns as I have teaching high level college math. :-)
one benefit that I haven't seen yet is that the magazines make some opponents very predictable. Having read a lot of 2+2 and other writing, I think I'm able to see through a lot of the errors in the mags myself. However, I often find players who read the mag every week and think they are experts without the benefit of more extensive study. This being the case, I can often read the magazine's "strategy" articles and then have opponents who are almost open books.
I havn't read many poker mags but I'm glad to hear that they suck as a source of poker advice. Who would you rather play against? people who read this forum or people who read poker mags? Even if the mags contained worthwhile advice I'm not sure how many people would actually have the patience and acumen to follow a "solid" poker strategy. I regularly play with this older woman who bleeds chips almost every single time she plays. I felt so sorry for her one time I broke a cardinal rule and actually tried to give her some advice so that she wouldn't lose as fast. It was to no avail. she always finds a way to justify playing crap like 10-2o (it's my neice's b-day).
Hey, if you want to give her some advice she can REALLY use, tell her to go play omaha!
1) Her lucky numbers will come up more often! (4 cards)
2) It has been statistically proven that every single hand in omaha has exactly the same strength as every other. Well, it's possible that 7773 rainbow is better than AAKQ both aces suited. At least I've seen the former win more often.
3) It's got all the luck of poker combined with the fast action and excitement of bingo! Poker bingo!
-SmoothB-
.
They don't have to hire bad writers who don't understand poker properly. They already provide some coverage of big events and it wouldn't cost much more to provide critical analysis of the play. Perhaps there is no way to eliminate the "feature card room of the month". I haven't seen or heard any compelling reasons why these magazines couldn't be whole lot better.
Hollywood Casino, Aurora, IL. Thursdays feature game 20-40 Hold'em, starts at 7:15pm.
Being a low limit player myself, I was not witness to the raid of the Mid Night Maradurer. Normally a mild manner guy with a gambling problem, our local Maradurer, road into the game and spanked the local rock's.
I have been rivered more times by the Maradurer in 10-20 than is statistically possible. I feel the pain of all those who were unlucky enough to meet him in battle. Forget about putting him on a hand, just know that on the river he'll be there.
Congrads Mid Night, I love knowing that I am not your only target.
The Suburban Poker Man
Rounder,
Sorry our locals he in Aurora, IL, are providing you with a statistical cleansing of your hourly rate. I hear your hourly rate for 5-10 & 10-20 are the envy of the poker community.
When ever your hourly rate is greater than your ablities, the poker god will always provide you with a statistical cleansing. My spies in the 5-10 hold'em game say your easy, you push hands too far, and never account for the unsual play of our any two card players.
You better find a softer game, I will be watching your progress from a far, as I am the only one who can't beat you.
Respectfully, The Suburban Poker Man
Not true - I have been getting spanked on the river a bit to much it's the rotten lousy low down locals who don't know when to tossin a bad hand.
I have been winning at Harras what I have been losing at Aurora.
Screw the poker god.
And screw the local yokals - I'll get them in the end I am a much better player and if you see that ahole Hess tell him to go screw himself.
Other than that How are you doing.
:-)
Just chacked my records and 3 losing sessions out of the last 14 is not a bad record against the calling stations of America.
So screw you too.
Semper Fi. I heard you were in the corps too.
:-)
People seem to completely miss the boat when it comes to figuring out what college is about.
As far as being an 'intellectual experience', it can or it can't be. It depends on YOUR attitude. Many students just go through the motions to get that piece of paper. It is a necessary evil that they must endure. That's ok, the system can accomodate them too. Some of them become doctors, lawyers, and bums. I am not judging those people.
But some people want to do more than get good grades. Some of them really get turned on by the things they learn. The system is there for them too. Most professors love to engage students who are really interested in a subject, and who want to discuss things that go beyond the textbook material. Some professors have interesting private lives - whether they be musicians, artists, antique car collectors, poker players, kite fliers, cattle ranchers, whatever. Some of these professors just love to talk about thier avocations.
If you want more out of college you MUST go out there and get it. No one is going to hunt you down and try to draw you out and find out what turns you on intellectually. Most professors are nice people. They have a tough job, take my word for it.
If you think college should be a mind expanding, intellectual experience, take some responsibility and go get it! No one is going to shove enlightenment down your throat.
-SmoothB-
Nice post, SmoothB.
I'll admit, I didn't take full advantage of the academic opportunities in college, but I will still say that it was an experience that I could not do without. My main benefit from my college experience was learning to make choices in everyday life. I didn't have mom and dad there to buffer me, so I needed to realize that I was responsible for my own actions. kind of an obvious truth, but one that we all should realize.
My added benefits of college were experiencing new things. I learned to play poker in a public cardroom. I learned my beer limit. I learned to fly fish. I learned that when you fall off of a skateboard while drunk in the middle of the night, it doesn't hurt as much as you expected...etc.
These are all life lessons that are vital to my makeup today. I got my piece of paper, but that was the least of the experience.
Smooth,
Great post. I had three distinct University experiences: one as a stoner, 2.0 GPA, 20 yr. old dropout; one as a 25/26 year old returning student who was incredibly engaged and intense and pulled down a 3.98 average; and one as a graduate student/teaching assistant (I got my MA last year at age 29).
I wholeheartedly with the point of your post. As a student, I got way more out of my classes--intellectually and personally--when I went everyday, paid attention and engaged the professors intensely about the subject. As a teacher, I have no doubt that I gave that type of student a level of attention much higher that the back-row dwellers in my classes.
As a sidenote, it amazed me the sense of entitlement that students exhibit in college these days. I am very liberal and heartily disagree with the "work hard, and lift yourself by your bootstraps and you can be anything" ethos of conservatives, but still, I was amazed at what I heard. Kids seriously expected that if they showed up everyday and studied a bit, they were owed a good grade. They would say things like "I am paying for this", "you work for me", etc.. People would also come up to me on the first day and say "I just want you to know I really want an A in this class", as if their performance were judged on some criteria besides their intelligence and the effort that they expended. It really made me think that young people today are way too spoiled, if they approach an opportunity like college as something unlike what you propose, and more like another opportunity for adults (parents and profs) to give them handouts.
No kidding! I noticed the same things!
I taught organic chemistry one summer. I had one student who liked to crack jokes and interrupt the class. At first it was pretty harmless stuff. He probably assumed that, since I am young too, that he could do stuff like that that would not go over with middle aged profs.
After a while it got old. I asked him to come into my office to discuss the matter. He was extremely offended. A week later he persisted, so I talked to him again. This time I told him, in the nicest most unthreatening way possible, that I would have to dismiss him from class if he kept it up.
He was outraged and insisted that he could do what he liked because he was paying for the class, etc.
What a brat! He really did a lot to ruin the great rapport I usually enjoy with my students. My only regret from that semester was that I didn't kick him out.
-SmoothB-
SmoothB,
You contend it's the student's responsibility to seek out professors; unfortunately, many students, those who may love to explore topics beyond those discussed in class, never have the nerve. Harvard historian Patricia Limerick has written about this phenomenon which she calls "phantomhood." Phantom students subscribe to certain myths about college teachers: professors only desire to engage in hard-hitting intellectual conversation with other faculty members; I'm a lowly student, so why should a teacher want to talk with me?; they're just too busy, and other assorted myths.
Limerick writes from the point of view of a reformed phantom herself, and she believes--as I do--that we should bother to seek out students rather than wait for them to come to us.
Of course, I teach at a community college where students are not only "phantoms" but terrified phantoms at that. They have often been the victims of an uncaring educational system that has already labeled them as deficient, and we expect them to join an academic discourse community and work within that community, while adjusting quickly to new demands, demands that often remain incomprehensible at first.
If we don't take the time to reach these students, who will?
John
I like your post. I wholeheartedly agree with the 'phantomhood' hypothesis. But there is a way to deal with this.
I always told my students, over and over, that they could come and talk to me. Ok, I know that still intimidates many. But I told them specifically what kinds of things they could come to me about. I told them they could come to talk to me about class material, study skills, etc. etc. I think one of the problems is that students don't know what kinds of topics are appropriate to bring to office hours. Some might think 'I just study and study and nothing sinks in. The prof will just tell me to study harded so I won't approach him.'
But I tell them specifically that they can come to me with all sorts of matters. I think that helps. I find that at least 1/3 of my students come to me at least a couple of times to chat. My classes have ranged from 40-100 in size.
How else to bring students out? It is tougher than it seems. Most classes are just too large for the prof to try to reach out and engage each one individually.
That's why students must take the initiative themselves.
After all, that is one of the keys to success in LOTS of things in life - taking the initiative.
-SmoothB-
SmoothB,
Let me also add that I teach writing and literature; conferences comprise a regular part of all my classes. These allow me to speak to each student individually, and I find conferences help to break down some of the barriers between student and teacher. In addition, I try to use a sense of humor when I teach, and this also seems to help.
At the same time, I am known to be very demanding. I have thrown students out of class who refuse to pay attention and told them not to return unless they were able to sort out their priorities. If they come to see me after being tossed, I calmly explain that I have a responsibilility to the entire class to ensure an acceptable learning environment. I also explain that does not mean I can't accept differing opinion, but I cannot tolerate a disruptive student. (I recomend this for you when you encounter a disruptive student like the one I read about in another of your posts.)
As a teacher, the best compliment I have ever received is "You really seem to care about what you do." When I hear this from students, I know that they care about what they do, too.
Regards,
John
I should have thrown that student out, I realize that now. Part of the reason was that I was just a grad student and I was under the close scrutiny of my graduate advisor. I felt that if I threw a student out it might raise doubts about my ability to conduct a class and use authority effectively.
Having conferences would really help. It's tough to find an excuse to do that in organic chemistry though. :)
-SmoothB-
John and SmoothB, as a science major (Chemistry) with a arts minor (english) I think I had a unique view of my professors. As John alludes to, a large part of developing the teacher-student relationship stemmed from the professor's ability to make the class see him or her as a real person. The nature of many liberal arts classes, with their many discussions and forums lends themselves to fostering this type of interaction.
As SmoothB points out, science classes do not lend themselves to this type of discussion. Science classes normally present information that is not debateable, and the professor, TA, or lecturer is often viewed only as a store of knowledge rather than a person with that knowledge.
I think the best teacher-student relationship I had at UC Davis was with a TA who also flyfished. We shared a common hobby, and I was able to see him as a real person. That he was willing to share a part of his non-academic life with me made me less afraid of him on an academic level.
just my $.02 2d
I think that a certain level of maturity is necessary to derive the most benifit from a college education. I went to college straight out of high school and graduated in 4 years when I was 22. I know that I would get much more out of the experience today but then again I'm not into taking tests which is one thing I really new how to do well when I graduated from high school.
My wife is completing her undergraduate work in Biology and Chemistry, is enjoying the experience immensely but she is not a great test taker (she chokes up) so she does have to work extra hard to maintain a high GPA. I will say that when I became an upper classman my grades were based more on out of class work than my first two years. From what I have observed from my wife's experience the system rewards the good test taker more than it should which is the way it was when I went to college.
Mr. Smooth:
evidently my university experiences differed quite a bit from yours, probably because chemistry is more cut and dry than literature.
first let me say that if every teacher were as dedicated and conscientious as John Cole, there would be little to complain about.
second, were I a teacher in a conventional setting, those who presume they deserve an A because Daddy is a mover and shaker would discover the first day of class that they were barking up the wrong dog and ooze out the nearest exit.
third, I'm not addressing the predicament of the 90+% who are content with conforming to what they ascertain is expected of them (by college it's too late to debrainwash most people), but with the genuinely creative individuals willing to buck a few broncos.
once I had the good fortune to meet a husband and wife named Otto and Vivika -- world-renowned potters whose ware sold for big bucks to collectors -- he was Beatrice Wood's teacher -- and something he said to me hit the bullseye. we were discussing the limitations of most teachers and how the best students imperil the tacit hierarchy and he said," If my students' accomplishments don't surpass mine, then I have failed."
more manana. I have get up early tomorrow.
Mark,
Thanks for the compliment, but at the end of the year when I write my self-assesment, I always fall far short of my expectations. I should add, though, that I see dedicated, conscientious teachers every day, and thankfully, they are the majority--at least where I work.
Also, I agree that most educational systems do expect a certain amount of conformity, but grammar schools and high schools are far worse than any college I have ever seen. A couple years ago at a writing conference, I had the pleasure of talking to Donaldo Macedo, translator of the late Paolo Friere's recent books. Friere metaphor for education is the banking system: teachers make deposits in the form of notes and lectures, cramming information into students' heads, and later withdraw that capital in the form of tests. Donaldo told me that once he asked Friere why New York City's administrators weren't more concerned with the staggering drop-out rate among minorities in the city. Friere said, "But, Donaldo, don't you see? That's exactly what they want." The banking system of education works to ensure failure.
Further, although "debrainwashing" students certainly is difficult, and a certain amount of "debrainwashing" needs to be done, I think, I'm more concerned with "debrainwashing" some administrators. Last week I served on a panel to discuss our efforts concerning effective remediation, which must be done at all community colleges and many four-year colleges, too. Our vice-president prattled on about offering mini-courses in grammar and punctuation, saying that students know they need this because they say themselves they are deficient in these areas. As usual, I put my foot in my mouth, saying that students don't know what they need, and we may not either. But I think they need to see themselves as writers and students first, active members of a learning community, and not editors. I'll never learn.
Finally, your last comment abut students surpassing teachers applies to many people, but is perhaps exemplified best by Rounder (though he'll probably never read this) and his obvious joy for his student who won the silver medal for flyfishing recently. He's a superior teacher.
John
as things stand, I would recommend high school graduates enroll at community colleges for the first two years because there teaching is the focus and because it's affordable. one also gets to avoid graduate students who are more concerned with chasing skirt or chopping the more astute or daring students down to size.
the last college I attended was on the right track. grades were replaced with a sliding scale of from 0 to 6 units with units earned according to the amount of work done.
another atypical feature: undergraduates who could garner a sponsor on the staff were eligible to conduct classes consisting of other undergraduates. as a result, I was able to teach a course on James Joyce's Ulysses.
I remember one student whose first paper totally missed the mark. had I been grading the paper I would have been obliged to mark it D+ or C-. instead I wrote an extensive critique, and he was encouraged to plug away so that, by the end of the quarter, he was more than up to speed....
"People seem to completely miss the boat when it comes to figuring out what college is about."
I may have missed the boat but I never missed a party. My social skills had a numbing effect on me for life. I hope doc doesn't read this I probably misspelled or had bad writing somewhere. FOLD!!!
ukw
I have an idea for a new 2+2 publication.
It would be a texas holdem casebook. There would be a lot of different hands, say 100 or so, with a detailed explaination of the correct play. Some of these hands might be fairly routine, but some of the problems could be extraordinarily complex.
I think it would be great if at least half of the problems were very sophisticated.
A solid estimate of the + or -EV of different plays could also be offered, and the merits of different plays and their alternatives could be argued.
This book would be of ENORMOUS benefit for those of us who have memorized all of the standard holdem and theory books.
The only problem is that David and Mason might start seeing some real competition at the tables - effectively making the EV of this enterprise negative. (IE +EV from book sales, but even more -EV due to money lost at the tables.)
Would anyone like to write this book??
-SmoothB-
Smooth,
I would go so far to say that this book is already written--its in the archives of these forums. An experienced book editor, along with a poker expert, could compile, IMO, a very nice volume that would be of great benefit to those who study poker, as well as 2+2. I often wish I had the time and energy to compile my own "best of the 2+2 forums" to read and study on paper.
Problems of identity would have to be dealt with, of course.
KJS
KJS,
Problems of coypwrite aside, those would have been my words exactly.
Regards,
Rick
Believe it or not , you guys have echoed our thoughts exactly. Mason and I have already decided that if we do another book it would probably be either 50 HOLDEM HANDS or THE BEST OF THE 2+2 FORUM. By the way if we do the second book, those of you who would not give permission to reprint your contributions would save us time if you tell us now.
This is genius.
This is actually a page out of Walt Disney's book. Back in the fifties when the Wonderful World of Disney was on tv Disney got Fess Parker to play Davey Crockett for a multi episode segment. It was incredibly popular and ended, of course, with Davey getting killed defending the Alamo. Later that year Disney took the episodes and released them as a movie. It had already been on tv for free but they got people to pay and see it again in movie theaters.
I'll let others elaborate on the analogy.
i still remember fess parker and buddy epson in those episodes. for a kid they were the best.
You can re-print any of my poker stuff, but we'll have to negotiate over the rights to my book, movie and music recommendations; not to mention any stuff dealing with weightlifting.
I would greatly prefer a '50 holdem hands' format. Hopefully these would be rather complex problems. As for a 'best of 2+2' format, hopefully the more challenging problems would be presented. Also, I would hope that the format would be well polished and edited and not simply a reprinting of our posts more or less verbatim.
Anyway, keep us posted! I am sure that many of us would welcome such an addition to our libraries.
If it is successful you could always print more than one volume - IE publish another 50 hands a year or 2 later, etc.
-SmoothB-
just got back from yellowstone national park. i went looking for wildlife and found plenty. i saw hundreds of elk and bison. moose and grizzly bears. saw some neat coyote antics as well as other small game. the wolves were great. saw two packs. the rose pack and the druid pack. watched them in the larmar valley and enjoyed them. fun seeing five of them pulling each other around tugging on and old rope they found. these were this years young. also one pack had an elk kill and a grizzly came to run them off the kill. usually the bear wins but this time the pack attacked the griz and would run in and bite him on the butt and finally chased him away . didnt fish much but the cutts were in the lamar and slough creek area. i also fished the rosebud and stillwater rivers up near redlodge. i havent fished there in years so it was fun returning even though the fish werent very big but plentiful.
I'll bet it was a little chilly there this time of year. I assume that you have a camper of some sort. Sounds like a fun trip.
two days were cold. about 10` in the morning 50` afternoon.but the rest of the trip it was in the seventies or so and sunny.
welcome back Ray, how's the weather up in the park? are the cutts still on hoppers or did you have to dredge them up with nymphs?
warm and sunny weather so the cutts all hit dry flies,whatever you threw at them.
I've yet to see the wolves but will. Lamar Valley is one of my favorite areas in the park. When I was courting my wife we camped at Slough Ck. Were the crowds down?
Ray -- How was the traffic? Long delays? Any Sig-alerts (How do you spell that, Rick?)?
Will this one make it into the Best of the Forum book?
It will make it into "Therapy Lessons Learned While Writing On The Forum"
ukw
this time of the year not many people just come and drive thru and clog the roads. but even in the summer its not bad as the press needs something to write about.
not many people but alot more than there used to be at this time of the year. fishermen all over the place. the wloves and bear stuff happened right at the turn off for the slough creek campground looking across the main road up on the hillside. how could any woman resist a man that took her to the slough creek campground.
Ray:
Did you fish the Yellowstone? When I went for a week last year, I had better luck there than Slough Creek, even though Slough was more highly touted by my friends who worked there. Fishing right off the road is not too glamorous and the wildlife near Slough better for sure, but for some reason the fish on the Yellowstone liked me better.
Sounds like a great trip.
KJS
if you fish slough creek it isnt very good unless you hike up a ways, then its good fishing and beautiful country. i go to the third meadow about eight miles in for the best fishing and to here the elk bugle between the two hills close to the valley. in the yellowstone in the park i dont fish it anymore but its ok for 16 to 20 inch cutts. out of the park its great for big browns and rainbows but hard work.
Ray,
Since your telling everyone where the good fishing holes are, why don't you tell me where a good HE game is? As I'm relatively new to the game, I'd like one where the players are really bad and have lots of money. I'm native to Montana and have been fishing since I could walk so I'm sure we could work out a good trade of info.
Sincerely, B
if you can get around the high cost of living ive never seen such good games for earning money as in northern cal. many other places that have had games, you were limited to the hours you could play. for small stakes all the games in montana will be good as they mostly have small antes and bad players with a high rake but easily beatable. if you are a non smoker, then its cal. vancouver b.c. or taj in a.c. or foxwoods. playing poker in any other smoking place will only bring regrets later in life.
My post was only half serious; but thanks for the info. I now live in N. Cal so my future looks bright. BTW, if you are ever headed to Western MT, drop me an email at hiboris@hotmail.com and I'll give you some non-Bulls**t directions for fishing holes (If I lose my shirt at the tables here in N. Cal. I won't tell you jack).
i live in western mt. in flathead county.
well what do you know? I'm from in the Olny area. Guess you'll just fine on your own for fishing.
olny huh, i live just south of you a few dozen miles. i wont tell any bad olny jokes about the people from there so you are safe. if you havent been around for a while you may not know american timber closed down for good. also loons echo up at stryker got sold to the bank recently. and whitefish has a new golf course development going in near big mountain ski resort with lots starting at 200,000 with 300 or so multi million dollar homes going in.
Rounder, you been reading my arm or do you have spies also?
Yes, I was in the Corps 64-67, and I might add that I have never forgiven John Wayne.
Suburban
I mutual friend told me you were in the corps.
As for tatoos I look for guys with them the more the better I also look for smokers. I recon if someone is silly eneough to disfigure their body for ever and damage their health they can't be to bright.
:-)
PS: Guess I was never drunk eneough to get tatooed.
All Poker Pros are Gamblers
Some Gamblers are persons who post on this Forum
Therefore, some people who post on this Forum are Poker Pros.
Can the last statement be false while the first statements are true? Valid / Invalid
If the argument is Invalid, why is it so?
Have fun,
CV
"(1)All Poker Pros are Gamblers
(2)Some Gamblers are persons who post on this Forum
(3)Therefore, some people who post on this Forum are Poker Pros.
Can the last statement be false while the first statements are true?"
Yes. By (1), there can exist gamblers who are not poker pros, and the gamblers who post on the Forum can come exclusively from those.
"If the argument is Invalid, why is it so?"
Being a gambler is a necessary but not sufficient condition to being a poker pro. Just because some gamblers post on this Forum doesn't ensure that those gamblers who post here are poker pros.
#
Correct. There is a distinct Fallacy (Undistributed Middle) being comitted in my argument that deals with the Term "Gamblers". To connect the terms "People who post on this Forum" with "Poker Pros" I would have to talk about *all* "Gamblers" either by including all of them or excluding all of them at some point in my argument.
To make this argument valid I would have to state something like: "All Gamblers are persons who post on this Forum". Unfortunatly, my argument then becomes unsound, since that statement isn't true because some gamblers choose not to post here.
I'm liking this Logic stuff.
Later, CV
Buy any book you can find by Raymond Smullyan. "Alice In Puzzle-Land(out of print, but I found one), "The Lady Or The Tiger", and the two "Chess Mysteries" books are a good place to start.
As for statement 1, I don't believe that Dan Harrington is much of a 'gambler'. He's a pretty good poker player, though......
Although each premise can be true the conclusion is not necessarily true or logically false, incorrect, invalid or something like that. The premeises do not lead to the conclusion therefore logically the premises may be true while the conclusion may be true but if they are all true then the logical thing to do is gamble somewhere other than on this forum because there may be some professional gamblers lurking here waiting to pounce on would be posting logicians from Colorado that try to illogically convince Ray Zee that bears don't shit on pear trees. (see Zee's pear tree post) Follow?
vince
not only did he s---t under my pear tree he ate all the mountain ash berries off my ash tree as evident by the red berries in his dropping and the lack of berries on my tree. soon ill be living in a wasteland.
Right! I doubt that any self respecting bear would want to fool around with Ray Zee's ASh.
Vince
i planted my pear tree 15 years ago and finally started getting really great pears off it. i had some before my yellowstone trip and they were great. so i left most of them on the tree till i got back. today i went out to get a pear and there were none on the tree. all i could find was a big pile of bear crap and a few broken limbs where he climbed up. it aint easy living in the country.
The first day of christmas will never be the same.
/
/
So what your saying is that PF finally figured out a way to get even with you. It ain't easy being Paul Feeney, either.
Vince
maybe if the tree was full of pizza PF would be the culprit but not pears even though paul is a peach.
"paul is a peach"
Imposter! The REAL Ray Zee would never utter such a blasphemy. Imposter!
Vince
"big pile of bear crap" The formation of "Prairie Rings" will commence with the degredation of poop from Winnie.
tptp
Hey Paul, how come you managed to get up to the North Country and climb a tree and you did not even get down to AC this summer. My God, even Vince and Dangerous Dan (and he IS dangerous) made it to AC once on his way to Las Vegas.
you know how mixed up paul is with letters so maybe he did go south and went to dc instead of ac. as for vince he will go anywhere he can find someone that will talk to him.
Yeah How come Vince would talk to you and not Rick N. I didn't want to bring it up but since you did like the old saying "Does A Bear Sh-t In The Woods". Or another adage "When The Z's Away The Bears Will Play"
ratso I went to Minn. instead my mistake I won't make it again.
Paul
Weather in AC is nice this time of the year. I suppose that is why I'll be in Toronto for a week or so. I am always at the wrong place at the wrong time. Got lots of action on the low limit tables in AC but walked away with a pittance (+ $43 for 8 hrs work/fun). Misse the last table in a tournament by 20 people (30/226)
At the risk of ridicule for a serious answer... Next year, pick all the pears, wrap individually in newspaper and store in a cool dark place. They will last all winter.
Is a refrigerator too cold (40F)?
Is it best if the student pays or should the parents provide a free ride? I'm not really seeking advice but am curious what others think.
at college age a student is old enough to pay his own way. but his parents probably want to pay so he doesnt have to spend too much time working to make the money. or he may not get the quality education he may get otherwise. if you can afford it i think the parents should pay but are not obligated to pay.
I think the student should pay. I don't see anything wrong with the parents paying but it should be seen as a gift rather than even the slightest obligation. If a student really wants a higher education he could have earned it himself by working hard in high school and getting scholarships. If he didn't put out that effort then college probably isn't super important to him. Get a job, which is what I would recommend regardless if the parents were paying. A little real life experience can increase the value of college enormously.
Ed,
If your parents truly give a $h_t about your education the money really shouldn't be an issue, they will have saved at least most of the money you'll need if not all. A telltale sign that you're going to have to flip the bill: (1)Your parent/s don't start talking about college to you until around your sophomore or junior year of high school.
We raised the kids with the understanding that college was not an option.
They were going and we are in it together.
I feel it is my responsibility to put the kids through college - we are paying for cars and insurance and ask the kids to work part time and summers to get their spending money.
It is an individual choice. When I was ready for college I was told to get a job so I joined the corps and when I got out went to college while working full time.
Hell it all works out in the end. I did supplement my earnings by playing pool, pinball and pinochle for money with the rich kids in the commons.
I felt it was my responsibility (as a parent) to pay for most of our 2 kid's college, at least the 1st 4 years. Naturally, they has student loans, but that amounted to only about 10K in loans, we payed the rest. We were fortunate enough for them to be good students and scholarships provided about 60%. My parents were poor, but did save enough to put me through the first 2 years. Scholarships and loand did the next 2, but for graduate school I worrked amd paid my entire way. I think that is a nice way to do it.
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