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Hello all- Happy New Year !
I will be in Vegas from Friday 1/7 until wee hours of Saturday 1/15 in order to participate in the Carnivale of Poker. Will play the opening limit holdem event for sure and then probably just lots of live action.
(Any game Diane is in, is "live'!)
Hope to see some of you there. Come on up and say Hi if you have a chance. I will be the over-weight, middle-aged, short hair, big mouthed broad terrorizing the mid-limit holdem games at Harrah's/Bellagio/Mirage.
Diane
Diane wrote:
"I will be the over-weight, middle-aged, short hair, big mouthed broad"
God, talk about having things in common.
I will be the over-weight, middle-aged, no hair, big mouthed guy
Looking forward to having coffee with you!
Vince.
I'll be the over weight, middle aged guy with hair & shades and telling bad jokes at the table - I'd be the one check raising the little old lady. :-)
I look forward to getting together with both Vince and Rounder and anyone else from 2+2 who happens to be there and is socially inclined.
Page me or find me through the floor people in the poker rooms at Harrah's/Bellagio/Mirage. I will be playing 16-18 hours a day if all goes according to my normal poker routine.
I travel with my faithful laptop also if you want to send an email to arrange a meeting as well.
Happy New Year, Diane
I guess I'll be looking for you at the Mirage.
"I guess I'll be looking for you at the Mirage. "
I know that's your line but I will be looking for you at the Mirage now that Mason has piqued my interest in the Mirage's come back.
Vince
Vince,
I'll be eating lunch at the Mirage and Harrah's and it's not at the buffet. Bring plenty of cash.
Sincerely,
mah
NO computer meltdowns(except for 2+2).
NO terrorist attacks.
NO mass suicides(cults).
Now the onslaught of "I Survived Y2K" type tee shirts.
Disappointing wasn't it. I bought all that tinned food for nothing.
Andy.
I hear that! And what in the hell am I supposed do with all these new packs of batteries I bought in anticipation of The Six-Month Blackout? I'm up to my ass in Duracells.
thats the problem with you city boys. you go out and get the batteries but put them in the wrong place. what are you trying to do, light up your life?
I'm sure Lady Gambler would be interested in taking those batteries off your hands at a discount. She needs a fresh and constant supply for her 10" solemate, BBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
just curious.... he got suspended at Blair for asking a girl if her prom date ran on bateries.
he's awesome, but not named perry.
take care.
alex
But that was a funny line, I'll have to remember it.
Now you take that back. LG is one of the gang and doesn't deserve that treatment.
Hi everyone,
I am going to be at the COP in Vegas. I plan on introducing myself to Rounder and Dianne and any other 2+2 forum folks that may be there. In the past I have met Dick from Phoenix, Paul Feeney and Fossilman (whom, incidently, I haven't seen much here on the forum lately). I did a little thinking about those meetings and thought that my impressions might be of interest and maybe even some value for future first time face to face meetings.
Dick from Phoenix was in Vegas last spring or early summer. He came to Bellagios. I believe he met David and when David wouldn't talk to him he settled for me. I guess he knew that if David wouldn't have anything to do with him, Mason certainly wouldn't either. so I guess he didn't bother. (BTW- The stuff about David and Mason isn't true but Dick did meet with me.) Dick is a Gentleman. He had me paged. We shook hands and he sat at my table and we talked. I offered to stop playing and go to the bar and kibitz for a while but if my memory serves me correctly Dick was on a Vegas kitchen pass and had to meet his wife shortly He preferred to sit and talk at the table. We discussed , David and Mason, of course. Talked a little about our families. We didn't talk much poker at all. Before I knew it Dick was gone. As quickly as we met we parted.
Last month I played in a Foxwoods Tourney. I made arrangements with Paul Feeny to meet him down there one Sunday. I made sure that I didn't let Z know. I know he hates PF and wanted to stay on Z's good side. Yes, he has a good side. No Brenda it's not his hair. Anyway I found Paul at a 1-5 stud table wearing his Green Bay Packer hat just as he described. I moseyed over to him and gave him a $1 chip that we had bet about my being there on Sunday. He got up from the table and enthusiastically pumped my hand up and down. He had a big grin on his face and he just made me feel like he was glad to see me. I liked that. We walked over to the cashiers cage and stood there for a few minutes. We traded salutations and talked about 2+2 and Fossilman. He hadn't met Fossil yet and we talked about my satellite experience with the big man. We talked for approximately 15 minutes. Not anything specific, not much about poker. Just small talk. Paul then returned to his game and I went to the tournment area.
Fossilman and I had an interesting thing happen the first time we met. I wrote about it on the Tournament forum. We actually didn't meet. He was in the 2 seat and I was in the 1 seat of a NL holdem tourney. I knocked him out of the tourney. He walked off before I could introduce myself. I had a very good idea it was him because of the 3 wierd looking fossil things he keeps in front of him. He is a very YOUNG nice man by the way. Fossil does not apply to his age. The next time I was down to FW, the day I met Feeney, I introduced myself to Fossilman (Greg Raymer). I took him by the arm and led himover to Paul Feeney and intrduced him to Paul. We all stood there for a few minutes and exchanged salutations and made some small talk. After a while Paul sat down and started playing again. Fossil went off to 20-40 Holdem and I went back to the tourney area.
One thing I find interesting about these three meetings is that with each meeting we exchanged salutations, talked briefly for about 15 minutes. Talked a little about the forum but not much about poker. Then we each went on our own merry way. Another interesting thing about two of these meetings is that on later visits to FW I ran into both Paul and Fossil again. On each occaision it was like meeting with an old friend. I felt very comfortable around both of them. As if I had known them for many years. I don't know how they felt but I felt like we were more than acquaintances. Funny because we had only met face to face once before and I felt those initial meetings were a little awkward from the "what the heck do we do know" point of view.
Well that is my little story. Hope it didn't bore you too much. Hope it in someways helps when we meet in the future. I am looking forward to meeting you all.
Vince.
Vince,
Your just a softie in life, but not at the table. Good luck in LV and I'll keep an eye out for the Fossil. I hope you meet everyone out in LV and have some laughs, because that's what it's all about, until you get to the table.
Paul
cop in vegas. you are getting just like PF. i hate you both.
I should be playing some poker during the COP at The Mirage. (For those of you who don't know The Mirage room under the leadership of Donna Harris is making quite a comeback, and in my opinion is the best run room in Las Vegas.) If anyone sees me please say hello. Also, if I can, I would be glad to join a few of you at the buffet. I don't want to set up anything at the moment since I don't know my schedule. But I do expect to get out some.
Vince,
I have met Dick by accident one night at Casino Arizona we were discussing eBay Auction stuff if I recall he was in 1 seat and I was in 3 seat. We player a few hands and he said are you Rounder. I said how did you guess that. It was fun. I wish I was in the game that night but it was during my fuzzy time and shouldn't have even been there but I was impressed with Dick's play and seems to me he carried off a few racks to the cage.
As most know I did meet Big John in LA all 6'8" of him and we had some fun at the Seniors I also had the privilage of meeting Rick N. and his student really nice people. I met Johnny Chan that night too but he was stuck big and not in the mood for conversation :-)
There have been others I have met after the fact like th guy who said Hey I was at that table at Gila River which seat were you in.
So much for the rambeling, it's 1:10am in Chicago and I am wide awake. Looking forward to getting back to Arizona - I sure miss the tournament action. Ring action here is great but my 1st love is tournaments.
We miss you too. The action has dried up at the tourneys with you gone.
JG
Jim I'll be at Gila on wed evening for the HE tournament pls. ID yourself to me OK. I think I know who you are but I am not sure.
Hi,
I was there last night. Looked for you. The only thing really distinguishing from your picture was the wristwatch with black band. Didn't see anyone like that or that I thought was you. I was the guy who flamed out 11th and made a couple short stacks very happy.
I wasn't there last nkght - sick as a dog - flu - I really wanted to go. I'll almost for sure be at casino arizona tomorrow for the NL HE tourmanent.
See ya.
Lots of times we just meet by coincidence. I had exchanged e-mails at least once with Rounder, on some Forum subject, so I knew his name. Then one night, I was playing at Casino AZ and I got into a discussion with this guy about eBay - finally he was nice enough to offer to review some of my listings and help me; he gave me his name and e-mail address, and I recognized the name! I said, "Oh - Are you Rounder?" You have never seen anybody look so surprised - you would have thought I had discovered that Clark Kent was Superman.
Oh, Rounder, I checked my records. I carried lots of racks away because I was down 140 earlier and had to reload - but I did finish up about 100 that night. My notes say that the rest of the players were quite live.
My recollection of Rounder's play is that he was folding everything - I've certainly had nights like that. Anyway, that is an indication that he walks the same walk that he talks.
Dick
rounder only played tight because you were watching. he is a certifed loose player. badger our resident expert on loose players will agree if asked. as i understand it rounder would call a frog out of a well.
You got my number Zee man.
…this past Thursday Rick Nebiolo and his student (I'm not sure how anonymous she wants to be at this time, so I won't call her by name here.) took a little trip down to Oceans Eleven. I met them, and after playing well into the evening we spent some time talking in the lounge. I recognized Rick immediately . The star of the Caro tells video, he had that big screen (well, okay, small screen) presence that surely must have helped the video's casting director discover him. His student was all that he has said, and an extremely nice person too. She was very complimentary about my writing, making me feel a little like a big shot, almost up there with, say, Ray Leitner (Remember him?). But seriously, I could tell that she was a true student of the game, having approached it on a whole new level since beginning her tutelage with Rick. ("But Rick, it was a loose, passive game. It was the player on the button who raised first…")
We talked poker, life, the internet, the state of the cardroom industry in So. Cal. (you know, the cramped bathroom at a certain small cardroom, the important stuff). Rick is a great guy, as you can probably tell from his posts. The bits of poker talk told me that he also plays the game as well as his posts indicate. He was also very good about asking me not how I'd "done" in my game, but how I'd "played" (See the end of my first guest essay here.), which was, uh, a relief for me on this particular day. :-/
I expect to head up to L.A. one day in a week or so and will rendezvous with Rick and "student" as well as scott, who will be causing trouble at CalTech. (Come to think of it, I wonder if that's around the time Paul Feeney's arch nemesis will be in the area. Oh Zeeman…?) Between us we will surely figure out the meaning of poker and the answers to more profound questions like, "Did AlexB get his harmonica?". Stay tuned.
i haven't heard the scoop on the harmonica. and trouble is just my nickname. my real name is havoc.
scott
John,
It was certainly a pleasure meeting you. I hope I didn't seem to tipsy as my student kept switching my half empty cocktails with her barely touched ones when I wasn't looking. She is pretty sneaky which should be an indicator of poker talent.
I was surprised to later learn that you had one of your worst days of the year in poker. I spent most of the afternoon and evening at the next table (we played the 9/18 kill holdem - John was in the 40/80 holdem), and it seemed to me that your table presence was outstanding. If you were feeling any pain I doubt your opponents could tell from your attitude and demeanor. You are writing about the fine points of tilt in Poker Digest and I would guess you are about as tiltproof as they come. So I would say you can "walk the walk" as well as "talk the talk" on this subject.
Anyway, we hope to see you and scott in a week or so or whenever you can get up to Los Angeles.
Regards,
Rick
to buy it for me. Take it easy on scott, John. Scott is riddled with over 5 ulcers. I keep telling him to stop betting only on the long-shots at the track, but he says its the only way he can feel alive. Well, I hope he can learn enough from you to keep up that expensive habit. Of course, you know all about playing poker to fund expensive habits, don't you......
alex
relief for ulcers:
1. avoid stress (horse racing etc. poker is OK)
2. try Pepcid and stuff like that (preferablely see a doctor who knows about ulcers (might need an antibiotic if H. Pylori are suspected).
3. try sexual release (I'll leave him to decide on which form).
that's a start
One day a few months ago I walked into Sandia Casino in Albuquerque. Put my name on the board and started watching a hold'em game. There were two players with a lot of chips in front of them. They were young guys and decked out in Bronco's caps, shirts, and jackets. I started watching them play and I was astonished as to how well they played as their style is so rare in this casino. When I got home that evening I started thinking that one of the guys was probably Guy Downs (GD). I e-mailed him later and asked him if that was him and sure enough it was. I haven't seen him since he won that big jackpot. I can vouch that Guy and his friend play very well.
I'm getting my poker education in a local LV casino,4-8 jackpot poker.My purpose for being there is to move up asap and make money. I don't consider poker recreation. I'm at the 250 hr mark and my game is coming along nicely.However,what screams out at me is the amount I have paid in tokes,jackpots and rake.In trying to improve this scenario,I need some input on dlr tokes.I tip 50C a pot,and avg 2+ pots per hr.What do I get for this fee? The dlrs are pleasnt and mumble thanks,its not their fault or mine that the casino does'nt pay them much,and they rely on tokes.I've lost a few very good hands on mis-deals but we are all human.There have been a few angle shooters and I've never seen a dlr do anything to stop it.I'm always polite and courtious to dlrs,but am considering only tipping when they do something exceptional.
Consider: Even the slowest game gets 20 hands/hour dealt. (It's actually usually closer to 30.) If everyone tipped the dealer .50 (or if the average tip/pot was .50--same thing) then the dealer would make $10/hr+minimum wage+benefits, or well over $15/hour. This is not a starvation wage by any means. So if I tip .50/hand (and I do; $1 if I win a large pot) I am doing my part that the dealer makes at least $15/hr. And that's enough compensation in my book, especially since I'M not making that much what with the rakes (and tokes, and jackpot drain...)
Nothing says you have to toke - I hear Bill gates the richest man in the world who plays 3/6 HE does not toke dealers or wait staff - what a guy - I toke $1 on larger pots - if the dealer is a jerk she gets nothing there are 2 dealers on my s--t list both women.
You have to figure the tokes, jackpot and rake are gonna cost $5 per pot that's $150 or so off the table - money you can't win. So make your pots count.
Stiff all dealers. Dealers deserve to make more money so if you don't toke they will be forced to get an education providing them with a better living that doesn't depend on the handouts of the over taxed customers of poker parlors. Many dealers also smoke cigarettes. Never toke a smoking dealer. They will just turn around and spend the money on cancer producing carcinogens. Second hand smoke will permiate the air causing well meaning non smoking peace loving gamblers to become ill and die prematurely from second hand smoke. Make a New Year's resolution and refrain from contributing to the escalation of death by association. Do not toke smoking poker dealers. Join the cause now.
I look at a dealer toke as a loan I will collect with interest. Most play (poorly) and give back the largess to the generous customers.
Exception to a poor playing dealer is a great playing one. I put the ratio at about 90%(poor)/10%(very good)
I dout that there are 10 Great poker playing dealers in this whole country let alone 10%. Oh you said very good. Make that 15.
Vince.
Tokes are not a loan, they are a gift. Never to return, unless the dealer gets off duty and joins your game.
-Danny
That is what I was alluding to. DUH!
You're right, I glazed over your message a little too quickly. Sorry.
Danny
Me and 2 dealers went out into the parking lot on New Years eve and did a few tokes ourselves. It was delightful. Not since Vietnam was I so *%$*#4-$$. What a way to begin a new year. Oh yes I lost 200 in a 2-4 holdem game i think.
Are you who I think you are Ray Zee?
Nope, not Ray Zee, but now if i see him, i can offer him some maui wowie. as long as it lasts.
In CT, where I play H/L (5-10 to 10-20) most of the time, the rake is so high that you really cannot afford to toke. They pool tokes at Foxwoods, and as far as I'm concerned pooled tokes are simply another form of a rake. Think about it, when you rake the pot, the house collects an amount from potential winnings, takes it to the back room, and a portion goes to paying the employees. When you pool tips, the same thing happens, except that all of it goes to paying the employees. I am sure that the dealers don't really care whether 50% or 80% of their compensation comes from tokes or hourly wages. And, if Joe Shmo tips 1 penny or 1 hundred dollars after winning a given pot, it would have a totally insignificant effect on that dealer's weekly cut. If we all stopped tipping, I guarantee the house would increase the rake in order to keep the same caliber of dealers. So, if there is a difference between a pooled toke and a rake, please explain it to me. Elsewhere, if a dealer stays focused upon the game (ie. does their job), the rake is reasonable (compared to CT it always is), and the tips are not pooled, I'll toke 50c on any reasonable split hand and a buck on a scoop. If a dealer doesn't keep an eye on the game or does something ridiculous, I won't tip. There definitely are dealers on my s**t list, who I will never toke, no matter what. There is enough to pay attention to at the table without having to do the dealers job for them also.
Hello all- In the past I have organized meal get togethers for the group at rgp that travels the tournament trail. Now that I have been frequenting 2+2 as well as rgp, I am also interested in meeting any of you that would like to break bread together.
Two meal gatherings/opportunities have been established and I would like to extend a personal invitation to the 2+2 faithful who will be in Vegas at that time.
I take the liberty of inviting you since I serve as the unofficial/self-appointed hostess of the group. (No one else bothers.....typical men....always leave meals to the women)
So as hostess, you are all welcome to join me and my other internet poker friends.
Breakfast Monday Jan. 10 9:45 am @Mirage Buffet
Lunch Wednesday Jan.12 1 pm @Mirage Buffet
I will be outside the buffet entrance a few minutes before the appointed time. Will be wearing either my green Packers sweatshirt or my red University of Wisconsin Badgers sweatshirt. Tall, short hair, big mouth,etc. etc.
Regards, Diane from Green Bay
Hey Diane,
My son works for University of Wisconsin. Gene mapping project. Got his masters there.
I will try and make the breakfast on Monday. Don't let that keep the rest of you away.
Vince.
I'll try to attend the Wednesday lunch.
SPACE:1999
Hey, Space 1999 is ironic. You just don't understand the British psyche :-)
As for the dumbest, well give me a month and I might get it down to a shortlist of a few hundred.
Andy.
I disagree. That was one of my favorite shows.
In no particular order:
Hot'l Baltimore Supertrain Speak Up America Anything with Alan Thicke Almost anything with Tony Danza(Taxi was good in spite of him) Almost anything with Judd Nelson(ditto) San Pedro Beach Bums Joanie Loves Chachi Fish(starring Abe Vigoda; how many prostate & impotence jokes can there be?) The Shields & Yarnell Hour(one trick pony) Pink Lady & Jeff(no trick pony)
Favorite prematurely cancelled shows:
Homefront Cupid(just recently cancelled, starring Jeremy Piven) 60 Minutes Point/Counterpoint segment replaced by insufferable Andy Rooney
I've got your answer in one word:
Ricki.
n
I have called Binions Horseshoe and they do not even know! I ended up buying the tapes from ConJel for $15 each, but they did not have the 99 WSOP....
Binions doesn't even have the 1999 tape out yet. I understand it will be on ESPN one day - hopefully before the next WSOP.
January 19th on Discovery Channel
Check your local listing for time.
It's posted in the events fourm section
I purchased the 99" WSOP off the internet. I don't remember if I got if thru Conjelco or Gambler's book club. Not to burst anyone's bubble but the video is not very good compared to the 98" WSOP.
Dice
...
1.Ken Shamrock(shootfighting) 2.Igor Vovchanchin(sambo) 3.Mark Kerr(greco-roman wrestling) 4.Rickson Gracie(Brazilian jujitsu) 5.Frank Shamrock(shootfighting) 6.Bas Rutten(pankration, thai boxing) 7.Pedro Rizzo(vale tudo) 8.Sakuraba(judo) 9.Marco Ruas(vale tudo) 10. Vitor Belfort(Brazilian jujitsu)....comments?
I think you are watching too much SUPER FIGHTS
Actually they were fun to watch. You mean you don't like the TANK?
What about Hulkster and Macho man.
Actually Ali was the greatst of all time.
Rocky Marciano
As Ali himself said, "I'm the greatest heavyweight of all time, but the greatest fighter of all time was Sugar Ray Robinson".
I wouldn't disagree with the champ.
a boxer couldn't handle any of those guys outside a boxing match. you can lock up a boxer's elbows and break his knees etc. maybe use some guntings (i am unsure of the spelling. it's the tactic of attacking the attacking limb from an indonesian martial art.) boxer's may have impressive chins but i wouldn't bet their thighs to last too many rounds with kickboxer.
it's still not very important, though.
scott
Here's my all-time pound for pound greatest boxers list:1.Ray Robinson 2.Ali 3. Kid Gavilan 4. Ray Leonard 5.Joe Louis 6.Archie Moore 7. Henry Armstrong 8.Roberto Duran 9.Mickey Walker 10. Jake LaMotta .....any comments?
If you're talking about Boxing and not more "extreme" styles, or techniques of other types of fighting, to leave off Rocky Marciano and Jack Johnson is a mistake. If you don't know who Jack Johnson is, go way back in your history books and you'll find him.
By the way, do you think Mighty Mouse could beat up Superman?
shooter
Even though in a no-holds barred street fight Tank could easilly beat DeLahoya, Trinidad, Roy Jones, Tyson, Hollyfield, and Lewis in one night, he does not belong with the guys that I have listed above. Pedro Rizzo and Maurice Smith both ko'd Tank with shin kicks, Vitor Belfort ko'd Tank with elbows to the back of his neck, and both Don Frye and Oleg Taktarov guillotine choked him.
1. Dave Semenko 2. John Ferguson 3. Gordie Howe 4. Dave Brown (just ask Stu Grimson) 5. Ali ( had to drop him to 5th 'cause he can't skate too well)
Hey you old dudes out there with Marciano and Ali. That's ancient history. Kojee is talking about the real bad boys where everything goes but eye gouging and biting. My vote is for Dan Severin who actually beat Shamrock
boxing's still beautiful. especially the lower weights. but i wouldn't take the boxer against these guys in an alley fight.
scott
Tougest guy: anyone with a gun
Kojee,
Cassius Clay aka Ali was the greatest boxer IMO. He was in prison for his prime years 5. He was the greatest, but I still feel shortchanged, because we missed his prime. Thank you Vietnam, and I don't feel shortchanged because they ended that war just in time because that was the only lottery I ever won. God bless all those that served in Vietnam and any war that are either dead or living.
paul
Gene LeBell, Hayward Nishioka, and Carlson Gracie could have finished off Ali (in his prime) in less than one minute in a no-holds barred street fight. Boxing has way too little tools at its disposal. I agree that Sugar Ray Robinson and Ali were the greatest boxers of all time but they wouldn't have been able to defend themselves against kicks, throws, chokes, takedowns, armbars, kneebars, leglocks,etc. In addition, LeBell and Gracie were also masters of biting, fishhooking, and eye gouging. Ali couldn't even beat Inoki despite the fact that Inoki wasn't allowed to do takedowns and submission holds....and Inoki was only a second class grappler!!!
if i remember right ali was stripped of his boxing title but never served anytime in prison.
Stripped of his title and unable to fight for THREE years (not 5), the case was overturned in the Supreme Court. He never served time.
Ever hear of a man named Alexander Kerelen? Hes an undefeated-for eight years- heavyweight greco wrestler. If we learned anything from the ultimate fighting, its that wrestlers dominate all other fighters. Unfortunately, the wrestlers in the competition were not that great. If Dan Severn can do well, theres about a hundred other heavyweight wrestlers (greco or freestyle) that could do even better. Alexander Kerelen is the best wrestler therefore the best fighter. He also weighs 300 lbs in the offseason-solid muscle.
I heard that Alexander Karelin actually competes in no holds barred fights in Russia/Armenia/Ukraine, but I do not know his record. I also don't know if he is any good in the art of submissions. Ultimate fights are won by submissions, not by pins as they do in greco-roman. By the way, I'm just gonna assume that "Ivan Putski" is an alias and not your real name. Putski was a very strong man and great pro wrestling performer. Probably a real shooter/hooker as well. In his prime he could have easily defeated Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Spinks, and Shavers in no holds barred fighting.
For boxers, ity has to be JAck Johnson (1915) and Jack Dempsey--he was a very violent man, a killer. Ali was a teriffic boxer, but he had the benefit of media hype. Ask Ali who the greatest boxer was, and if he wants to tell you the truth, he'll say Johnson.
Grapplers (not wrestlers) is what Kojee peobably meand are probably the toughtest because of their ability to fight on their backs or on the ground which is where most fights end.
I've made a resolution to keep a careful account of my Bankroll for this coming year. I've set up a spreadsheet which includes: Date, Location, Table Stakes, Hours Played, Session Gain/Loss, Total BR.
Am I leaving anything out?
Also, what about gambling expenses? Should I deduct them from my total BR, such as travel to/from the card room (I take the bus) and books by our illustrious 2+2 hosts? I don't plan on including food, since I'd be eating anyway.
thanks for your comments, J.
Try to eat in casino if it's free and tips small ( I saw world champion of poker order 2-3 free foods and tipped $1 american),sleep in restroom so you can save bus fare. You will SURVIVE.
I like a notation section for any extra ordinary hands or situations - maybe a state of mind note.
Expenses - I don't keep track except for travel to out of town tournaments.
And you deduct those from your bottom line? Reading your posts, I take it you play in many tournaments that require travel. Your BR must be very large, so I'm wondering how much these expenses eat into your overall percentage, if you do deduct them from your playing roll.
thanks, J.
The travel is a cost of doing business. I deduct the flight and hotel room from winnings. I have made all trips profitable to date with the exception of the 99 WSOP - that was only because I over did the super satellites and didn't play eneough of the single table satellites and ring games. I wanted to win that 10K seat real bad.
Jordan, I gave up new years resolutions year ago, but that was before I was a poker player. :) This year, i resolved to faithfully maintain my bankroll. I am also doing a better job of maintaining an accurate log of every session that I play. The columns i have are date/limit/location/buy-in/hrs. played/and profit-loss I am keeping it all in a notebook, that way I can cross reference to a seperate area, where I keep notes about the session and note any interesting hands.
I hope I keep my resolution and stick to it!
Does anyone know if Treasure Island Casino (which is south of the Twin Cities) has hold'em? Thanks.
No, there is no poker in Minnesota at all. In April, Canterbury Park race track will be opening a card club with all sorts of poker games.
Right now, the casinos in Minnesota only offer Blackjack and slots.
What a fun state.
Wisconsin is no better. I hate to think that I have to travel to Iowa or Illinois to play cards.
Thanks for the response.
Jon,
I'll be heading out there June 29th-July 2. I have to check on a few things out there. Maybe we could hook up one of those days. Email me if your interested.
Paul
Come on, it's approaching 3 MONTHS !!
Maybe he's waiting for a winning session.
Michael,
You know, somebody criticized him here for posting losing results. Couple that with his own observation, where he basically pointed out the same thing, maybe you're right about him wanting to wait for better results(even if you did sound like you were half kidding). Anyway, I hope that's not the case because I love to read about his High Limit ring game experiences, Win or Lose! I could care less about tournament results, here or abroad.
For what its worth, I saw Phil playing some high limit 7CS and O8 at the Taj in December. I think it was $400/$800 and he was very queit, and the entire table was constantly rinning him. So he mst have been stuck. And to top it off, the TV screens in the poker room were replaying a video of the first USPC main event no-limit hold'em final table where Phil blew off a big chip lead and finished 2nd to Ken Flaton. To quote Phil- "Brutal!"
i saw him playing too at the taj in december. he was playing 400/800 hold'em against johny chan and two other faces i recognized, but couldn't place a name. all phil could do was complain about his bad beats and one in particular to chan in which chan outrdew him on the river cost phil i think around 8,000. he was complaining to his friends walking by how he lost around 30,000 during a particular dealer's half hour. grow up, phil, it wasn't the dealers fault. I must say this, it was very entertaining watching four guys playbing at these limits. they each had one year of my college tuition infront of them. well, maybe someday.
This may sound ridiculous, but I'd pay 10 bucks for a seat with an un-obstructed view of the table where I could watch people like Phil playing 400/800 Hold'em. I'd love every second it.
.
I just read for the second time a post by Tom Weideman on rgp and a new response. It concerns corporate sponsorship of poker and Tom is just brilliant.
Look for the thread called Ranking Tournament Players by Gim Geary. Tom Weidman has a response on 01/4/00 at 12:43.
Gee, I thought I used to know how to insert a direct link but then again this is a newsgroup (oh yeah, I could have linked to deja.com).
Anyway, it is time for Pollitically Incorrect on the tube and Dennis Prager is on.
Good Night,
Rick
,
I am going to be in San Jose for a conference next week and want to get some poker hours in. Can someone give me a rundown of clubs near the Fairmont Hotel?
Theres 2 card rooms in San Jose: Bay 101 and Garden City. Both are big, and spread 2-4 up to high limits. I don't know where your hotel is, so I can't say which is closer, although if you're near the airport Bay 101 is just nearby. Low limit games are beatable but table selection is important. I prefer GC only because the players chairs are more comfortable.
The Fairmont is downtown. Neither club is that close. You will need to take a cab. (Should be < 10$) Here are some criteria to help you decide:
Food - Garden City. Not even close. Try the prime rib or smoked porkchops.
Omaha/8 - Bay 101 has 4/8 1/2 Kill - Garden City 2/4 or 3/6.
7 Card Stud - Bay 101 has 4/8 High only (call first, does not go every night). Garden City has hi-low split (3-6 or 4-8 - not sure?)
Lowball draw - only at the Garden City
Low-limit Holdem (2-4, 3-6, 6-12) - both have "good" games.
Mid-limit Holdem (15-30, 20-40) - Bay 101 will have several, usually must-move. Garden City will have one. Games at both places can be wild.
Hi-limit Holdem (30-60, 40-80, 60-120) - only at Bay 101. Probably only 1 game. Probably tough.
And that's about it.
maybe worm can tell you which clubs have tables with the least gum under them.
Are there any cardrooms in the Orlando area?
No. There are games less than 50 minutes away on the Sun Cruz boat in Cape Canaveral. Pretty loose games of one round Omaha H/L one round HE, and other tables with 7CS H/L. Sometimes there is a pot limit HE/Omaha H/L. There are some very good players in that game. I would say that in each higher limit game other than pot limit you will be playing with regulars, half or whom are very good players, the other half good players who just play too loose (possibly because its only a five hour cruise). Other than that your only choice is the Indian Casino in Tampa, which has a sort of mini-tournament structure.
Wow, a huge improvement. Tweak it to put the newest posts on top and it'll be the nuts. This allows one to read while it loads. Thanks Chuck?
What exactly does Digestify mean for the 2+2 site? Probably I am not spotting a link.
D.
it actually is kind of a code. if you break it down into parts it becomes obvious to all. dige(did you) stify (stiff the dealers). since people that do this dastardly thing at times get the wrath of many, those people use code. if you have problems with this code i suggest pig latin.
Wells not BobaLink!!!
Digitfri!!!!
http://atlascopy.com/index.htm
You might want to check this out if your tired of spending $26 for ink catridges. You can buy bulk ink 16oz for $24 and refill your current catridges you are using with a syringe and needle. Make sure you order the correct ink for your particular catridge as there are as many of those as sand in the beach Z just hit into. My catridge holds 27mls~1oz so doing the math thats 16 refills for $24 dollars. And someone else can figure out the rest. It covers the ante's.
Paul
i tried using ink for cartriges but when hit all the bears did were get mad as hell. very dangerous indeed.
Paul,
You wrote: "You can buy bulk ink 16oz for $24 and refill your current catridges you are using with a syringe and needle."
Doesn't the blood from the needle mess up the ink?
Rick
Rick,
Go see the movie End Of Days if you want to see blood ink.
paul
ok. if anyone is actually doing these, please let me know (by post preferably. i want to build support. soon everyone will be doing number theory.) also, if anyone has any questions, post or email me. if you want me to check your thinking or explain something, i would do so gladly.
remember these statements may be true or false. you are supposed to determine if a statement is true. if it is true, then prove it. otherwise, try to salvage the statement. that means changing it a little to make it true. maybe add an hypothesis or something.
1. if n is an odd integer then 8|n^2-1 (| means divides)
2. a,b,c are in Z (the integers). if a|b and a|c then a|(b*r+c*s) for all r and s in Z.
3. a and n are integers greater than 1. if a^n-1 is a prime then a = 2 and n = a prime.
4. imagine the cartesian plane. we call points with integral coordinates lattice points. no triangle whose vertices are lattice points can be an equilateral triangle.
there are also some numerical exploration questions about continued fractions. i am just going to try to describe a continued fraction.
take any rational number r/s. this is equal to some integer a plus some remainder k/s, where k is less than s. but this remainder is equal to the reciprocal of a number larger than 1, s/k. which is then equal to b + l/k, where l 29/11=2 + 7/11=2 + 1/(11/7)=2 + 1/(1 + 4/7)=2 + 1/(1 + 1/(1 + 3/4))
= 2 + 1/(1 + 1/(1 + 1/(1 +1/3)))
these will come up later.
scott
Hope this "proof" to the first problem doesn't have too many holes.
>>1. if n is an odd integer then 8|n^2-1 (| means divides)
if n is odd it can be defined as n=2x+1 where x is any integer or 0.
therefore n^2-1=(2x+1)(2x+1)-1=4x^2 + 4x + 1 - 1=4(x^2 + x)
if x is even then (x^2 + x)=2y where y is any integer.
if x is odd then x^2 is odd. then (x^2 + x) is even and equals 2y where y is any integer.
if x is 0 then (x^2 + x)=0. 8 doesn't divide 0 therefore n cannot equal 1. Statement must be modified.
since (x^2 + x)=2y for any integer, (n^2-1)=8y.
8|8y therefore 8|n^2-1 if n is an odd integer other than 1.
good, except 8 does divide 0. 8*0=0, so there exists an intger, namely 0, such that 8*a=0.
scott
Don't laugh too hard.
2. a,b,c are in Z (the integers). if a|b and a|c then a|(b*r+c*s) for all r and s in Z.
b=ax and c=ay where x and y are in Z.
therefore (br + cs)=(axr + ays)=a(xr + ys)
since x,y,r,s are integers, (xr + ys) is an integer
therefore a(xr + ys)=aq where q is in Z.
a|aq therefore a|(br + cs)
anyone who's laughing is not laughing at you. thy're probably laughing at me. well, whatever makes them happy.
scott
If David Sklansky is NOT a (multi) millionaire then why on earth should I take advice from him?
Anyone that has been in the business as long as he has-written as many books--and been playing poker professionally should CERTAINLY be a (multi) millionaire by now.
If he is NOT then I will never listen to any advice he gives out ever again. I mean really!
That would be like taking investment advice from someone that drives a Ford Taurus. Now comeon.
Without revealing confidential information about Mr. Sklansky's portfolio, I can tell you that it is quite substantial indeed.
Who cares how much money David has, worry about going heads up against him in a tournament, thats what matters. Besides he has done a lot more for the game of poker than one can imagine. Forget the advice, thats not all that he has brought to the game.
I usually advise my clients that speculating is not wise as there is so much of it now in the markets. I have no doubt that Mr. Sklansky's poker advice is extremely sound and is contributions to this game are legendary.
because you should be picking your investments randomly.
alex
the question is not whether David is a multimillionair or not. it is that if you play poker and gamble and do not understand what he says you will certainly not become a millionair. also sam waldon drove on old pickup truck till he died. and jeff brazos just bought a new volvo and traded in his honda civic.
Hump A Trump,
He may have been but since he purchased exclusive rights to my DIAMOND CAVE in South Africa, (Zee inspected it of course) he may need a loan Lumpy.
"Under The Boardwalk"
Actually I do drive a brand new Jaguar Vanden Plas but not so much to impress my readers as to, well never mind that's my business.
I'm always looking to up my bankroll (especially after decembers)
By the way where do you park it? Maybe I can sell it for parts.
Dave Sklansky says,"Actually I do drive a brand new Jaguar Vanden Plas but not so much to impress my readers as to": 1. Impress the babes 2. Depress his male friends 3. Smell the real wood interior 4. Drive fast 5. Support the garage mechanics 6. all of the above
Maybe David plays golf!
P.S I do like the 5 choices though.
Maybe he's made millions gambling, but he's broke because he has your taste in women.
How ridiculous. The idea that lifestyle or physical possesions is a sound indicator of one's wealth is eronneous Anyway, regardless of his personal worth, your desire to ignore his writings for whatever reason won't get you anywhere. Forget about how much money David Sklansky has managed to accumulate, worry about learning the concepts he teaches and start working on making that first million of your own.
Oh wait, you're Donald Trump, you allready have millions...never mind.
Last week it was a rumor. Since the 3rd has passed, can anyone tell us if the Taj Mahal poker room did indeed go non-smoking?
Thanks.
I was wondering about that too, esp. since I posted the rumor.
Just got off the phone with the poker room. It's still a rumor. Oh Well. One can only hope.
Danny
I sent a note to Tommy Gito about it. Guess he does not check his email. I'll be down there this weekend. I'll try to find out.
I was down at the Taj over the Christmas weekend. The players were talking about it then. I hope it wasn't just a rumor. I was almost choking on the smoke in there. Lousy ventilation.
I find the ventelation better at the Taj than at the Trop. I was just there and I had to take 2 showers and burn my clothes to get the tobacco stench out. . .Not to mention the screaming headache.
All part of the job, I guess. . .
shooter
The Vancouver casinos are now smoke-free. Many smokers like yours truly are in a constant state of tilt. Easy money! Come on down..er...up.
great they will get my business. see you in the spring when i come thru the mattress.
i cant believe a person a smart as you is as stupid as you.
Ray,
Dumbest thing I have ever done in my life - no doubt about it. Peer pressure working as a busboy when I was 14 years old got me started and I have been hooked ever since.
To be honest, while I have had some difficulty with the new no smoking rule, I am actually happy about it. It forces me to smoke less. As well, the place smells a whole lot better. My wife commented the other day that for a change my shirt didn't stink of cigarette smoke when I came home.
I've heard the same thing -- that they actually like the non smoking law here -- from many other smokers. Some have even used it as an opportunity to quit. (I here that prescription drug that reduces the craving is good.)
Also Ray said "...when I come through the mattress". I'm afraid Paul's starting to get to him.
La Vida Loca or Mambo No.5? Or is it something else?
Well, with the second verse the same as the first, which is the acid test for redundancy, I'm voting for I'm Henry the VIII I am, By those lovable Herman's Hermits. And as we all remember Herman's name is Peter Blair Dennis Bernard Noone.
"Coming Down Again" by The Rolling Stones 5:55. Album "Goats Head Soup". Z's specialty that he serves on Superbowl Sunday when the "Rams" play.
Meet you by the "Stump."
paul
actually a ram is a sheep. if you ever come up to montana i have a cute one with a black face for you. bbbaaaaaaaah
You guys aren't even close. The correct answer is "One More Night," by Phil Collins.
JG
Lighting Hopkins,I Once was agambler but I bet my money wrong
I vote for "Live and Let Die", for the simple reason that it has this line:
"And in this ever-changing world in which we live in..."
Dan,
I agree completely! And, if it's sung "And in this ever chang-in world in which we live in," it's far worse.
Old Joke:
A Texan strolls across the yard at Harvard University. He stops a tweedy looking type and asks, "Can y'all tell me where the library's at?" The professor replies, "Sir, at Harvard we don't end our sentences in prepositions." "Well, excuse me," comes the reply, "Can y'all tell me where the library's at--Asshole!"
The Bird is the Word?
- Andrew
ill go with surfer bird but what about 100 bottles of beer on the wall.
Ray,
I still have not heard anyone finish singing the song.
Post deleted at author's request.
How about Backstreets by Bruce?
He says "hiding on the backstreets" 30 times in that song.
Danny S
A pox on your house for dogging the Boss. Backstreets is a masterpiece, and every one of those "hiding on the Backsteets" has more power and emotional impact than the previous one.
Ah...don't get me wrong. I love the Boss, have seen him in concert many times and I like Backstreets.
Still with 30 "hiding on the backstreets" it has to rate up there as redundant
Danny-
As a guy from Philadelphia (am I right?), don't you just love this one from Atlantic City:
"Down here there's just winners and losers,
and don't get caught on the wrong side of that line."
How about Mony, Mony?
I got it! "You are so beautiful to me" by Joe Cocker.
2nd half of Hey Jude
Also Grand funk kept getting closer to his home
He's a loser.......a song about Gary Carson. Close second Yesterday.....song about Gary Carson before he played poker the first time.
x
It might be the same theme, but at least it moves around the orchestra pit a bit while going nowhere.
The RnR equivalent would be Chicago who took the same sound, recorded it 179 times and distributed it over a 30-yr catalog, tho granted it's a catchy little hook.
JG
Post deleted at author's request.
I think I read all the responses and can't believe you all missed it:
LOVE TO LOVE YA, BABY by Donna Summer?
Louie, Louie.....The Kingsmen. Not only is it redundant but unintelligible.
I used to know someone who knew the lyrics.
It's a Small World!!
Every nite at 10 I'd lay her again. Louie Loueye OOhh, oohh.
Now what's so HARD about that.
FAP
It's Me and My Arrow
Another long night at the tables last night, and wound up on the negative side on 3 out of 4 sessions played. I'm one of the few players who's not afraid or ashamed to give exact figures. . .I'm playing on a limited BR of less than $1,000, so I'm stuck on the 2-4 tables. But I can't help but think that I'd be wiser to move up, even though my BR doesn't can't afford it.
Here's the play that burned me over and over again last night: Holding quality cards, I'm forced to back off every time the board comes up 3 suits. So here I am, holding best hand up to the turn on numerous occasions, betting it up and turning the rest of the table into a calling station. Then the river comes, shows a third suited card and someone makes a flush. Finally I realized: ALL LOW LIMIT PLAYERS PLAY ANY SUITED CARDS. And when you have 8 callers, it's bound to bite you in the ass every time, because EVERY suit is being represented at the flop. So, if the flop comes 2 diamonds, the clubs, hearts, and spades all drop out and one or two callers are just waiting for the 3rd to drop. It was maddening, and I wound up leaving down over $150 thanks to this (as well as a few other) low limit bulls**t screwings.
Finally I went to a higher limit and found myself above water, though marginally. I'm sure many of you will tell me that the numbers are on my side in the long run, but in the short term it was VERY frustrating.
any comments?
shooter
Read my post under Texas Hold'Em: Can you win without losing your mind. I share your frustrations, and like Bill Clinton, I feel your pain :) That said, I modify my hand rankings when I play with the chowderheads in the 2-4 and 3-6 numbnuts contests. Since everybody plays everything---some people would call if dealt two BLANK cards: The big pairs drop in value. Essentially they are like any other pair where you usually have to flop trips to win. You might try laying off the hammer until you see the helping flop, or the helped-nobody garbage flop. This will decrease your earnings slightly but will also decrease your variance, not to mention your likelihood of going insane when KK gets cracked by 93---three times in an hour. Also, hands like Ax suited go WAY up in value, and most Kx suiteds become playable. Unsuited connectors (98, 65, and so forth) are also much more valuable when you play with loonies. Also, keep in mind that the short-term variance in this type of gsme is kind of drastic. Hang in there and try to think in terms of the long run.
Don't forget the high drop. If your paying in California, a $3 drop on the 2-4 is the same cost for 6-12 at many places.
Badger probably knows someone making 6 figures playing 2-4 but I think may be very hard show much profit in this structure.
Of course you do need the right BR, so you will have to decide whether to take shots or wait til you acquire more money.
It would not be a reason to move up because the whole table will play any two ( possibly suited ) cards. This is just free money. Read John Feeney's article in PD about developing the right attitude.
D.
Shooter I'd like to help but give some indication of the cards you are playing and where.
I pair in a game like this ain't much. Your big pairs go way down in value against so many random hands. Connected cards making nut straights and Axs making nut flushes are good hands in this sort of game. Good rule is - if you don't hit the flop hard get out - it will save you alot of bets chasing cards.
Thanks for your input Rounder. I read your posts every time, and gain a lot from them.
I usually play at the Trop in AC. I'm becoming one of the 'familiar faces' there. I have about 40 hours of table time in the last month, 35 at the 2-4 game, and about 5 at 3-6. So far I've done much better per hour at 3-6.
As for the cards I play, I try to play by HPFAP's guidelines, though I haven't memorized their hand grouping chart. I generally only play big suited connectors and big pairs from early position, sometimes one-gapped suited if they have eyes. On the button I play down to about 66, TJo, 67s,. Looking it up, that's somewhere between Groups 5 and 6. Maybe too low, but I take into account how loose the individual game is. To tell the truth, I've been thinking of lowering my early position requirements, since there are ALWAYS 6-9 callers pre-flop. I can pretty much expect it every hand, and raises aren't much of a warning to get out, since I've seen the most UNBELIEVABLE raises in these games. I saw a guy raise from UTG with J5s and take the pot with one of those 3 suited boards I was complaining about in my original post.
Hope this helps, and I look forward to your comments.
shooter
That is why I like Axs so much alot of good things happen with this hand wheel, trips with A kicker, AA on the board etc. lots of combos all winners.
Pairs go up pre flop too - flop a set and you are in business and there isn't much difference between a set of 6's and 2's is there. Connected cards are important too they make the nut straight if you use both and you get to make another straight as opposed to one gappers. Grp one and big suited are all good here too.
I wish you success.
Good advice, but I'm wondering: If I see the flop on SO many different hands, will the price of paying to see the flop 40-60% of the time wipe out the gains I'll make when I do screw the table the way they screwed me? By the sound of our posts, the advice for these low limit games is to loosen up a lot. I had always read that the secret for loose games is to tighten up. Maybe I'm mistaking 'loose' for 'ignorant', which is really what these players are. They probably wouldn't know what the word 'loose' means in terms of poker. Hell, the biggest winner at the table was an old guy who turned to me and said "What's it mean when you say 'NUT flush'?
see what I'm up against?
I'm talking about playing the connected cards in late position no where else. play the smaller pairrs in med to late and the group oneish hands in early.
This should keep you to about 25% of the hands.
I play much more stud, so my playing Holdem is simply to get a feel for the game. I have read the books and practiced on a computer, but here is absolutely no substitute for live games, and a lot of them. The analogy might be masterbation vs intercourse. Anyway, I really believe the only reason to play 24 or lower games to to simply see how the cards behave and to see how people react. It is a basic training of sorts. You must keep your head and play according to the odds. In low limit games, low suited connectors are frequently played too loosely. In stud, it's live cards. In holdem, it's high cards.
Just made my final travel arrangements for the COP - I'll be arriving 7am on Sat the 15 and out the next morning. I am coming to play in the $500 NL HE tournament. Hope to see some of you there.
Missed two tournaments today one is real easy money so I feel like I lost. Flu sucks. Anyone want to play phone poker? I'll deal from here and tell you what you got.
:-)
well i guess till you get better we will get bombarded by posts.
I have just moved to san diego and I need to know where is the best place to play. I live near downtown, approximately at I-805 and I-8.
I play holdem, 7cs, hi-lo stud, and O8. I usually play lower limit, anywhere from 2-4 up to 6-12, sometimes playing as high as 10-20, (depending on the games,how loose etc). I also love tournaments and need to know where and when the small $$ tournaments are (100$ or less). Are there any small $$ no-limit HE tournaments? Limit HE? 7cs?
any help would be appreciated
new guy
You are about 1/2 hour from Oceans 11 in Oceanside take freeway North to Oceanside and follow the signs.
You live about a 7 minute drive from the Lucky Lady on El Cajon Blvd. They have hold'em at the limits you're looking for (S.D. is pretty dominated by hold'em.). I'm not sure if they have O8, don't think they have any sort of stud yet.
Your next closest cardroom is the Village Club on Broadway in Chula Vista -- maybe 15 minutes south taking 805 to the H street exit. They have hold'em, O8, and some 1-4 stud h/l.
Viejas is straight out I-8 about 30 minutes, and Sycuan is similar, but harder to find the first time. They have smoke, but the games you're looking for.
Oceans Eleven has all the games (no stud high though) and is about 35 min north (take I-8 straight north to where it becomes I-5 and keep going about 30 min from there to Mission Blvd in Oceanside where you'll see a big "Casino" sign on the right.). IMO, it's probably the most professionally run cardroom in the area, though you may find the Village Club or Lucky Lady more "homey".
Sycuan has a Limit HE tournament, $13 buy in, no rebuys, and you get a $30 for $20 buy in coupon to use the same day. I know they do 3-6 and 4-8 HE after the tourney. Times are at 10am and 6pm Sat and Sun and I think 10am M-F. I'll be there most Sunday mornings for a while.
Stopped by the Commerce to meet John Feeney and small caps scott. When I got there, Rick Nebiolo and his student were heavily involved in a 9-18 Hold'em game. In one hand, Rick limps in with J10o, is raised by his student with 99's, flop comes 78x, check, bet, call. Turn 9, bet, raise, reraise, call. River pairs the board and student takes down nice pot. I mentioned to student that she may have learned everything she can from her current mentor and might have to consider moving up a little. I told her that D. Sklansky has a new Jaguar and might consider taking on a student with her qualifications. ;< )
I met scott, James H. and TJDJ (Ted Jou). Here's these three guys, still in their teens, on break from their Universities, whooping it up with some juicy low limit action. They were playing, having a great time, and actually savoring the flavor of casino action that so many of us "veterans" just take for granted. This should be the future of poker, young people coming in and tasting the heady thrills of victory, surviving the inevitable losses and coming back from them by studying and improving their games.
I met John Feeney only briefly as he was totally immersed in what looked like a very good $50-100 game that was being spread using $10.00 chips. It was a little weird seeing guys shove in a stack to raise on the turn or river. This is another young guy who looked comfortable in his environment. Where he is today is where the "young turks" will probably be in five or six years if they continue to participate and study.
It will be a great thing for poker if we can continue to attract people with this much promise to our game.
John - Good to see a Big John Post here again.
Wish I was there would like to meet the "turks" I was gonna be there this weekend except for the flu getting me down.
I still get excited everytime I enter a card room - savoring the flavors well you're a bit more poetic than I but I get this exuberance that is hard to describe. It is the feeling I used to get when I was wrestling and I was entering the mat for the match - this wave would come over me and I'd change from this nice affable gragerious guy to this monster with one goal to pin my opponent any way possible within the limits of the rules (I was disqualified in a sectional contest once because of over exerburance).
i hope you're feeling better. i am looking to be in la this summer, so i am sure i'll get a chance to meet you.
is over exuberence against the rules?
scott
Big John -- As brief as it was, it was a real pleasure meeting you. I was sorry you couldn't stay longer and have dinner with us. (Well, "midnight meal" might be a better term.) I did get to hear a good story of yours, though (the tree and the "owl"), from Scott. I'll definitely see you again in the coming months at one place or another.
I had exactly the same reaction to seeing these young guys enjoying their cardroom experience. I saw Scott just after he had sat down in a 2-4 stud game. He had a look of attention and focus that said, "Alright, I'm here, I'm playing, let's go." I was sure that if he didn't win it wouldn't be because he didn't bring more intensity (and obviously more thought) to the game than any of the other players. (He did win that night, btw -- quite a sizable win for the limit. Casino losing streak [of one] officially broken.)
I happened to walk across the the casino floor with James H. just after he had cashed out his own sizable win. He was really excited to have discovered how beatable the games were. Then we linked up with Scott and Ted, who has *also* won (not a bad little parlay), and it was just really fun to see their enthusiasm as they talked about what they'd just experienced. I think they had more fun than anyone else there that night (and at the Commerce, that's a lot of "anyone"s).
Aside from Scott, who at this point is pretty set on pursuing some serious poker, I don't how involved these "Young Turks" will get with the game. But it's clear that they have the abilities to go as far with it as they would ever want to. Even if they just keep it as a regular hobby as they pursue things like physics research, I can envision the time when some veteran players are going to be buzzing about these tough young players popping up in the poker world.
Rick and "student" were gracious and fun as ever. Rick is teaching her expertly, but I have a feeling he's learning a thing or two from her about how to have fun at the game.
John,
I'm sorry I couldn't stay also. The Commerce was my fourth cardroom stop of the day, having played some 4-8 Hold'em at Hawaiian Gardens while waiting to collect on a long overdue debt. I then spent 4 hours at the Normandie in the 15-30 lowball before running over to Crystal Park and playing the NL Hold'em tournament. By the time I got to where you guys were, I was a tired old man. I did perk up a little when small caps scott mentioned he might like to try a little small ring game NL Hold'em action, but nothing much came of it.
It is exciting when you see that the best and the brightest are being attracted to our game. The "Young Turks" certainly qualify in that regard. I figured that if I could get scott involved in some NL ring game action he would be "hooked" like I am and then we'd have an elequent voice on the forums to advocate big bet poker.
Send me an email the next time you are heading up our way and we'll hook up for dinner. I hope that 50-100 worked out well for you.
it wasn't that late old man. i definitely would have lost some money at nl if it would have kept you going through dinner.
actually, when my high school game gets back together we usually play a couple rounds nl. i want to learn big bet poker. it's fun and will probably be more so when i cease to completely suck at it.
scott
Big John -- The 50-100 did go well. The Nebiolo jinx was broken. I'm expecting to make it up to L.A. pretty regularly this year. So I'll certainly be in touch. I'm guessing that as time goes by you'll see scott in some NL games as well as every other structure and game type you can shake a stick at. I might even dip my toe in it if the blinds were small enough that I wouldn't be setting too much money on fire. (TM Badger) (I'm still fuming over a tiny pot-limit game I played with friends some time ago. Twice I got myself and another guy pretty much all in by the flop holding KK. Both times he drew out. It was like a rack of chips each time. I need a fresh start. :-/)
so are big john and rick (and rick's student is quite a cool woman), but the point of this post is mr john feeney.
everyone in jimbo's and ted's dorm thought we were being abducted by a pedophile when we drove off in a car with someone we met on the internet. someone almost called the cops. the people at this school are paranoid and juvenile. one stupid thing they do is dump water on people's heads who break rules during dinner. like getting out of your seat or throwing food. i hadn't seen someone throw food in 10 years. apparently the people here don't meet strangers at bars. i mean really, what were the odds you were a lunatic? i am a gambling man and i liked my odds.
fortunately for everyone involved, you were not a pedophile. or if you were, you managed to restrain yourself. for that, i thank you.
when i'm here this summer, i'll come down to san diego for a while. we'll have a car and everything.
scott
Well, when you tell them it's a guy from a gambling site on the internet, and he's driving you to a huge gambling den... Whew! Glad no one turned me in.
You've now played on both coasts, Scott, in your first two shots at cardroom poker. That says something. I'm not sure what -- but definitely something. Anyway, the summer sounds good. See you later, guys..
scott,
I'm confused. "They" dump water on you if you get out of your seat during dinner? Who is "they"? Do they have waiters at these fancy schools? Food police? Super skinny blond chicks with tatoos who think they are doing you a big favor by cleaning the counter in front of you when a stupid hamburger costs $5?
BTW, the odds against John Feeney being a lunatic based on his writing was 4.1 to one against. The average pro poker player would be a 2 to 1 favorite to be a lunatic. That means that John Feeney is 8.2 times less likely to be a lunatic as the average pro poker player. Correct me if I'm wrong on the math but please be warned that I am a lunatic and know it. Lunatics do not like being corrected.
Regards,
Rick
Yes, there are food police here. They are generally referred to as "waiters", but they're really instruments of a totalitarian food service regime. Anyhow, the convenience of having someone serve you your food is well worth adhering to a few simple rules (or am I showing my communist tendencies again).
Come to Caltech sometime and you can see for yourself - guests don't get wet, their hosts do for any rules they break. Don't take Scott's word for it, see for yourself how crappy this school really is. The only upside is the easy money in the .50-1 poker game, but now that we've discovered casino poker, I'm not quite sure what this school is good for anymore.
x
no, i am flying home tonight. but i will probably be able to get up there this summer.
scott
After sitting down at the 2-4 table and realizing how easy it was going to be to walk away with over 50 dollars, I had a hard time pulling myself away to watch some of the old timers in action. I was hoping to see some of the action at your super high limit game, but as I said, I was not about to get up when people insisted on throwing money at me. We will have to do this again, maybe next time we'll swing by San Diego, so we can catch you on your own turf.
-james H.
James,
You wrote: "I was not about to get up when people insisted on throwing money at me."
What were you doing? Lap dances? Don't come to Hollywood Park or I will definitely have to call security for this sort of behavior. I guess they are pretty damn lax at the Commerce.
Regards,
Rick
P.S. If you can get away with lap dances, you should sit in with those rich old ladies who play pan. I hear they tip real well. You could make more big bets per hour than Rounder.
John,
Actually the hand between my student and I went a bit differently. I was in the BB with Jd Td and she limped UTG and four other players called. The flop came 8h 7h 3d. I was thinking of betting at this with my two overcards and inside straight draw (the hand had several people capable of folding). As I was thinking, she was already reaching for her chips so I checked, she bet, two called and then I called with my inside straight draw, overcards, and back door flush. I really need to work with her to elininate the bad habit of reaching for chips too soon.
Anyway the turn came an offsuit nine. This is my dream card but I already planed in advance to checkraise if I saw that she would reach for her chips. She did so I was able to trap one player for a turn bet before she and I put in three raises head up. I was pretty sure she had a set. The river paired the eight and she lept out of her seat as she bet. I just called and showed the table my cards so all would know we had legit hands.
We never softplay one another and winning each others chips somehow is a little sweeter than winning ordinary chips. Usually after a while one of us takes a table change anyway. We don't need each other in our games.
Regards,
Rick
Rick,
I stand corrected on the particulars of the hand. While you were telling me about it, I was probably a little bit distracted by watching how adroitly your student was collecting and stacking those newly won chips. I did notice that it didn't take you very long to reacquire those lost stacks once you made that table change and no longer had to contend with your aggressive student on your left. (I wonder how much of her improved results at poker comes from having great position on the best player at her table?);<)
If you teach as well as you play, I see a whole new career ahead of you.
Hi Big John,
It was nice seeing you again. The last time I met you and Rounder at Crystal Park, I did not have a chance to stand up from the game I was playing as I thought we would have a chance to catch up at the bar. Last Saturday, I was able to come and stand up close to you and I can't believe how tall you are. I was already in my most spiked high heels so I can at least look at you eye to eye but I could not even come close.
Thanks for complimenting me on my play and also the time I played at CP, I strive to do my best all the time but as Rick pointed out, I still have a lot of tells which I intend to correct as it's costing me some of my winnings.
It was nice meeting the 2+2'ers at the Commerce Casino. This was my second time to meet John Feeney and I told him how his articles/essays and his posts have helped me a lot in my game strategy. (By the way, I have learned a lot from all your posts also and from the other posters of the forum and from all the poker books I have read.) However, most of my poker knowledge is credited to Rick who is really the best when it comes to teaching. He will not stop pinpointing my mistakes until he knows for sure that I finally got it and I won't do it again.
After our poker session, John Feeney, small caps scott, James H., TJ, Rick and myself had a midnight snack/dinner/cocktails at the California Grill and I had a chance to talk to everyone who are as enthusiatic as me when it comes to poker. All of us had a great time and the following day, the troop with the exception of John Feeney went to play at Hollywood Park. We all played separate games but I think everyone went home a winner that night.
I hope to meet a lot of the 2+2'ers in the future. My first time I met you and Rounder, I did not even consider you two as strangers, we had so much to talk about, (thanks to the forum), it seemed like I've known you both for a long time. The forum brings down the barrier. This happened again the first time I met John Feeney and also when I met small caps scott, James H. and TJ. It really is a pleasure!
Wait till you meet ol' Izmet Smoothtalker Fekali!
I'm coming over soon.
BTW, please say hello to Mrs. Grace Rosenfeldt at the Crystal Park (she's a poker host/prop there), if you have a chance.
---
Hi Izmet,
Rick and I will be looking forward to seeing you. It will be a pleasure meeting one of my favorite posters. Who knows, maybe a lot of the 2+2ers will also have the chance to meet with you and us when you are in town. Just keep us posted.
We will say hi to Grace Rosenfeldt for you if we have a chance to go to CP.
I know I'd try to make it. I'd love to meet the Slovenian jammer.
John,
"Student" just left. We were talking about how great it would be someday to have a big group of posters all sitting around a table and having drinks and stuff. Maybe even Abdul, Mason, Gary Carson and Badger would show up along with Mr. Sklansky himself. That would be an interesting mix. The main problem would be setting it up so that only one person would be allowed to talk at the same time and this may be some sort of mathematical impossibly.
Regards,
Rick
This
Big John,
She has so much poker potential it drives me crazy when she makes a fundamental mistake regarding the way she puts out her bets. That is why I wrote that post above. Of course both of us know that even veteran players make this mistake. Anyway, I think I was a little hard on her in my post as she played the hand very well. And yes, having a tough tricky player like her on my left is a nightmare. I didn't have much chance to win money until I changed tables.
Because she is so attractive and ladylike people may underestimate her intelligence. She was in college at fifteen! She can respond to an email on some poker problem I send her with a full page of analysis and she can write it in about five minutes. She doesn't even use nor need a spell checker. Her concentration and focus is fantastic at the table. If she wants to, she can easily join those players' Abdul talks about in his deleted articles. I think she has a better shot and beating 40/80 or bigger holdem then I do if she works hard. But then again, she has a fantastic career as an executive. Few poker players at any limit do as well as she does. So she will probably keep playing poker as a part time thing. This is why she doesn't want her name mentioned on the forum. Big companies still frown on top employees playing in card clubs. Too bad, because she is the classiest player at the table I have ever seen. She has world class manners and is a world class person. But I'll still try to win her chips as she will try to win mine :-).
Regards,
Rick
P.S. I can't see taking on any more students. Anyone else would be a let down.
i enjoyed meeting you too. you are in fact as large as the lengends led me to believe. it was a great experience. last summer, the government paid me about 11 dollars an hour to do math research. i have a standing offer for this summer. but apparently caltech can beat that and i can play poker for 8 hours a day. it is looking very likely that i will spend this comming summer in la. so i am looking forward to that low limit nl game.
scott
Hi scott,
It was a pleasure meeting you and James H. and TJ. Hope you had fun and always remember the goodies at the Korean restaurant. Wasn't that something else? Your visit was too short but when you come back to visit California this summer, let's get together again, you and James H and TJ and the rest of your friends.
Hi scott,
It was a pleasure meeting you and James H. and TJ. Hope you had fun and always remember the goodies at the Korean restaurant. Wasn't that something else? Your visit was too short but when you come back to visit California this summer, let's get together again, you and James H and TJ and the rest of your friends.
It was most certainly a pleasure meeting some of the poker greats of 2+2. Although some of you were burdened with responsiblities like a family etc, you all managed to retain some of the spirit of college students just out to have a good time at all costs. You make your living, or a substantial portion thereof, playing a game. You guys rule.
I found the casino a great place for an 18-year-old to be. While they claim that people of our age are not allowed into these places, I found out otherwise shortly after I met Big John.
I was sitting at a 2-4 Hold'em table and a new dealer sat down. While he was dealing his second hand, he asked me, "Did you get carded coming in?" I, being an honest individual, responded, "No." He told me, "You look so 17." "16 probably," another player quipped. I checked my cards and smiled. He continued dealing.
The casino is great.
with Big John saying he is posting less for awhile and that crazy Paul Feeney (PH) preoccupied over on the sports forum stuff and Vince has become y2k neutralized it seems so nice around the forums. what a wonderful life.
now if we can do something with all the animals that hang around (badger, worm, hamster,ratso) that drive me nuts.
Shoot em, clean em, cook em, eat em and mount em. Unless you only want to hold em.
Ray,
Is that something you do every Millenium or are you just getting itchy for some of my Bro's money on the Left Coast.
Good Luck
Pheeney, Faul
Ray,
While I am staying away from posting to the forums directly relating to poker theory and strategy, I see no harm in my posting to the exchange forum. I think it is better to confine chit chat and off-topic postings to an area where "serious" participants won't be frustrated from having to wade through posts of no interest to them.
I have been giving your poor Mexican Stud Braceros a little break since right before Christmas after posting large back-to-back wins against them. I decided to play 50 hours of 15-30 and 25 hours of 30-60 to make sure that my bread and butter lowball skills don't deteriorate or atrophy. I don't want to wind up as one of those sad figures whose skills become so eroded from disuse that they have to hide out in some lean-to up in the northern wastelands, surviving on berries and roots and royalties, hoping to stumble across a dead elk, bear or opossum to liven up a winter's stew.
I often wondered what you did up in Montana to turn an honest dollar in your semi-retirement until I read your advertisement so cleverly hidden in the subject header. BTW, do you do windows?
aint no possums in montana
anymore. they've all become stew.
scott
Post deleted at author's request.
I am a 10-20 or 15-30 holdem player and wonder if any casinos in Tunica Mississippi ( or any place other than California or Las Vegas for that matter) have games with those limits.
I would like to travel to other places in the country and play...so any information would be helpful. Thanks.
LAM
10&20 is played in most areas with public casinos. in fact its played all over the world. find a place you want to go and give the casino a call and ask.
Tunica has great games at the Horseshoe just for what you are looking for. They spread several $10-20, 15-30, 20-40 and higher games every day.
Call 1-800-303-7463 for more information. Kenny Lambert is the poker room manager, Jim Presley is his assistant and Anita Estep handles the room reservations.
Come to SARGE and try it out or come down any weekend for great games and super people. One of my favorite spots.
Diane from Green Bay
There is a lengthy thread on RGP regarding Womens events at the WSOP and other events. Basic arguement is since there is nothing physical about poker why have the womens events.
The discussion has branched off to arguements about woman not doing very well in the Big one seems Barbara Enright is the only lady to make the final table since it's inception.
I can see why women are not making it to the hights as men - I put it down to emotion, aggression and testosterone but I'm just an old MCP.
There are any number of great women poker players but the question remains do they deserve to have their "OWN" tournaments I think it degrades their abilities - it is 2000 - maybe it is time to do away with women only tournaments.
Comments.
lets face it, (all) human cultures like to have (gender) segregated social events. since it is 2000, lets just accept that. (and if it does degrade their skills, well, so much the better.)
brad
MCP,
Do a Title IX for TNMTS like the wizards did in MA, so as to eliminate meaningless MEN sports like GOLF, LACROSSE, HOCKEY, FOOTBALL, ETC. I enjoy woman's sports probably as much as anyone, but to sacrifice MEN'S sports to make things equal IFR.
MCP with a TWIST
I have always maintained that women should have their own cardrooms. Would you like to invest?
Yes I agree and let me buy the first couch with straps.
You are right that there is no physical reason to have separate events for women. The decision, however, is not based on physical considerations but marketing; and, within common sense constraints, I believe businesses should have the right to market their products or services as they see fit. If I don't like what they are doing, I have the right not to patronize them, to complain, etc.
On a related note, why are there seperate shooting and archery events for men and women?
Considering that success at poker depends directly on how dispassionate, coldly calculating, and bloodthirsty one can be over a period of time, I strongly disapprove of women and men playing together in the same poker tournament events. We guys would never have a prayer!!! (Parenthetically---I DO love the enchanting way the little dears giggle when they make threes full of deuces on the river to beat my Ace-high flush.)
Rounder,
If you ever get to a final table, short handed with Barbara Enright, you'll never again argue that emotion, aggression and testosterone were legitimate factors in that men vs. woman outcome. Barbara will have the biggest set of "balls" at that table, I guarantee it! She is a super aggressive player shorthanded, and would put you to the test.
No arguement from me here John. She was at the Sr's and liked to play 45s like the nuts. Just wondering why they still have gals events at tournaments.
Well, I guess it is time for Diane to respond.
I don't want or need Ladies only events. There was a time and place for them when it was still necessary to have an easy way for women to break into the game. but that is no longer the case.
We can hold our own with you fellows. Barbara, Susie, Kathy L, Kathy K, Linda J etc and many others have shown that we can compete on equal footing and in WSOP open events.
The Ladies event at WSOP has been a tradition for years, but it has outlived it's need and should be eliminated.
Diane from Green Bay
anyone know where/when some especially weak games are in the phoenix area. i usually play at casino arizona in the late afternoon, 10-20.
just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on day of week or time of day or different place to play.
brad, (posting from work to kill time)
Brad,
I think the Casino Az. 10-20 is one of the worst in the area. Of course there is always Gila river and Ft Mcdowell. The 20-40 ato Casino Arizona is very loose compared to the 10-20 and they are spreading 15-30 too.
ja, 10-20 is pretty tough and tight, but i cant really play any higher because of bankroll limitations.
thanks
brad
Brad - have you tryed the 4-8 6-12 at casino arizona they can be really profitable. Local pors are making a living playing there. Loose passive and plenty of rich folks to fill the seats.
thanks, id play 6-12 in a second but it never gets going. maybe ill try the 4-8 if i can switch gears.
brad
4-8 hold'em "Wild Game" 4-6 hands capped pre-flop per hour. Lots of pre-flop raising. The boys came to play! I have not been playing many hands at all, 1) I have been getting very poor starting hands 2) I don't play poor stating hands. The few I did I won. This game is the "feeder" to the main game, but I am seeing player that were in the main game now moving to the feeder. I ask one guy "How is the main game" he says "So tight ..can't make any money. Guys are getting out of the main game putting their name on the board to play in this game." Another hour goes by and I get called to the main game. I grab a few racks and start loading my chips. As I am leaving the loud mouth at the table (who has been commenting about my tight play all nigh) says "The tight game is more your style anyway" another older guy says "If you play half as well as this guy PJ you could go home a winner too" PJ: "This guy's not a player" Old Guy: "I have played with him 5 times and he has gone home a winner every time" (didn't know the old guy was keeping track but he is correct I have been beating this level for 2.2 BB for about 150 hrs) PJ: "I don't give a shit how many times he has won he still ain't no player. I (PJ) play every night and win and lose hundreds of dollars that's a player!!" Now since this guy has been on my case most of the night I wanted to just rip into my true thoughts about "Regular Fish" like him but I decide to stay cool and just say nothing. I head off to the main game. I am at the main game for no more than 30 min (it was a tight table)and here comes PJ. He sits on my left and starts with the comments. I win 3 out of the next 9 hands I am up just under 100.00 for 4 1/2 hour time (2.7 Big Bets per hour)and decide to hit the road before I have to pay my blinds. PJ: "O.K the true grinder is on his way home to count our cash, put it in you little black book." Now I am getting a bit pissed. What I did want to tell this jerk is that "It's a piece of cake winning money from a "REGULAR FISH" like him". I decide to just say nothing again.
Question: Since I will probly run into this jerk in the future is it worth it to let this guy have it or just leave him swimming in the fish pond?
Thanks (had to get that off my chest)
Best of it !!
MJ
x
If it got "personal", I might be tempted to give the guy a shot with the intention of putting him on tilt, but why make yourself a bigger target at the table? You have these chowderheads right where you want them, why rock the boat? Most people would rather lose their money to a 'friend' rather than an 'enemy'.
I hear what you are saying Dunc Mills..but it was hard to just sit there and take it. Guess I'll wait to see if he keeps it up.
Best of it !!
MJ
I have used two approaches to just this kind of situation, with reasonable success: 1. Agree with Supermouth; say, "You're right, I'm not a "player", as you call it, I'm simply a "winner". Smile sweetly. Continue, "I'm sorry you don't like playing with me. However, I want you to know that I'm happy--VERY happy--to play with you." Seven hours later the true meaning of what you said will sink in--in the meantime, you just might shut him up while he mulls it over. 2. Tell the floorman that this player is harassing you (he is!) and criticizing your play, both of which are big no-nos. He will be told in no uncertain terms to cease and desist if he wants to keep on playing in this cardroom. (If you aren't getting this kind of protection then YOU shouldn't be playing there; come to think of it, the dealer should have reprimanded Jerkface in at least one of the incidents you describe.) In either case I would watch the progress of Asshole, and as he blew the last of his fifth rack of chips and got up to slink into the night, I wouldn't be able to resist calling out, "Now, there goes a real player!!!"
"I'm sorry you don't like playing with me. However, I want you to know that I'm happy--VERY happy--to play with you."
This is a good one.
Thanks
MJ
On one of the threads in the Hold ‘em forum, someone alleges that the distribution of cards on Planet Poker is not random. Mike Caro advised PP about their random number generator. For those of you who are familiar with his mathematics and computer skills, does Mike Caro have the necessary expertise to assure that the cards are fairly dealt?
I believe so yes. If I am not mistaken, his poker software, Poker Probe, uses Monte Carlo sims to determine the outcome of various matchups. The results determined by Poker Probe have been independently verified. If I am right this proves that Mike knows how to implement a random number generator via software. He has done a lot of work on a program call ORAC that plays heads up no limit hold'em. Also he did the famous poker tables that appear in Super System.
that has nothing to do with hand distribution, it only analyzes heads up matchups.
mike didn't write the software for the company in question, and his probe analyzes headsup situations, not flops and hand distributions. MR.Caro's personal website is incomplete. I'm not sure his skills range much beyond dos based programming.
Just saw the 1999 WSOP tape and it is worse than bad.
1st 20 min. is Wilford Brimley and some chick talking about drivel and the final table is so bad you don't know what the cards or bets are - Phil Hellmuth can't be heard and the video looks very amaturish. All in all awaste of time and money - hell it only took binions 7 months to get this piece of crap on the street.
Disapointment.
Is this what's going to be shown on Discovery Channel on the 19th? Or do we have something better to look forward to?
shooter
nt
Thanks for the info Rounder.
It Sucks!!!
....
XX
his posts were getting too strange so mason asked too have him deleted. i never realized he meant vinces posts and not the whole enchilada. malentendu thats all. mhrip. lets hope he hasnt cloned himself along the way.
He saw my face and had a picture taken of us together. I'll leave the rest up to you since you probably own a "JUDGE".
Huh?
GTO,
G.O.A.T. OFFERINGS
A "Judge" was a Pontiac GTO back in 69,70,71. Spoiler on the back if ordered. It was a MUSCLE car, didn't corner too well.
FLOYD AND SID HOFFMAN'S 69 JUDGE!
AT 'ALL PONTIAC WEEKEND' CAR SHOW IN REID PARK! YOUR NEVER TOO YOUNG TO BE A GTO FAN!
R.A.III 400 LURKS UNDER THE HOOD!
THE HOFFMAN'S PURCHASED THEIR JUDGE IN THE EARLY 80'S. IT FEATURES A R.A. III 400 WHICH HAS BEEN COMPLETELY REBUILT, BORED .060 OVER, A CRANE R.A.III BLUEPRINT CAM WAS INSTALLED ALONG WITH A HOLLY 650 DOUBLE PUMPER, AN MSD6A INGNITION BOX, AND 3 TUBE HEADERS! A TURBO 400 TRANNY BACKS UP THE 400 AND A 3:73 POSI PUTS THE POWER TO THE GROUND! OPTIONS INCLUDE: DUAL-GATE SHIFTER, IN-DASH TACH AND POWER BRAKES. CAR IS PAINTED CAROUSEL RED AND INTERIOR IS BLACK! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK FLOYD!
Paul A "GOAT DRIVER"
i wouldnt be seen in the thing. with such a low rear and a four insteed of three deuces.
I just read Mike Paulle's report of the third Carnivale event, and one Vincent Lepore cashed for a bit over $1,800. Congratulations, Vince! Frank Brabec
My picture page now boasts 8 photos - Badger, BillM, Mike Blair, me, Jeff Harding, Rounder, scott, and Tim.
Come on, guys and gals ... we have a lot more than 8 posters. I have access to a scanner, so you can snail-mail a regular picture if you want. Both mail and e-mail addresses are on my sub-page Contact Us.
Dick
My picture just wouldn't fit in on your site. I'm actually very good looking.
Brett
Come on, Brett, send it in. Now if you don't show your hand (or in this case, your face) everyone will think you are bluffing.
Besides, we need some competition against Rounder for Most Photogenic. I'm partial to myself for that prize, but I haven't found a second vote yet.
Dick
I am 18 years old, living in California. Aside from internet poker and private games, are there any options for me to play in casinos or public cardrooms?
people your age shouldn't be playing poker.
scott
x
I am also 18 and in California.
I'm sorry to tell you, but there are no poker games for you in California.
Okay, so I butchered scott's joke...
Seriously though, where are you in California? There's indian casinos all over the place - and if you look any older than I do, you can probably walk straight into any card club - and of course there's always the infamous Caltech Fleming House poker game...
I live near San Jose. Anything around there?
Indian casinos like Sycuan which don't serve alcohol will let you play. But gamble responsibly and remember to put your studies first.
Come on down we need the action.
I don't think so.
I'll be 33 next month and still get carded at the valley casinos. I don't think they think I look 17. And if I recall correctly, Zart had been asking around here a few months(years) ago because he was having difficulty and was somewhere between 18.0 and 20.99.
JG
PS, there's .5 chance I'll be at tourney tonite. There's a picture on my webpage if you want to pick me out. (Add 25 lbs)
Jim I'll be there tonight hope for better run of cards than lastnight. 2 hours andplayed 4 hands. Pot was 15K lastnight and had 90+ players.
I was a bit offended that I didn;t get carded at the sr's wher eou had to be 50+ to play in one of the tournaments. Funny thing was no women entered guess they didn't want to admit they were over 50.
x
I asked the security guard on the way out. He said they were 18; the other valley one's are not. Gov. Hull is trying to standardize the compacts such that the age is 21 for all of them.
JG
Jim, Ft McDowell and Gila are 18 Casino Arizona is 21.
BTW - nice meeting you last night. I made it to 12th that tournament is such a meat grinder. If you wanted to see a flop it cost your stack. I was UTG with 6 at the table with A8 and made a run at the pot BB called my raise with J7 and hit 2 pair on the flop.
I have this feeling that 4 or 5 guys are playing together there. I wish I could prove it.
email me privately
All the indian casinos around So.Cal are 18 to play. They are much better too because you dont pay the rake until you win the pot. It makes it cheaper if you play tighter then the other players. San Manuel is probably the best Indian casino for Poker players in so cal.
One of the supermarket tabloids has an annual list of the best dressed and the worst dressed celebrities. Maybe it's time for us poker players to make our own list too. Who are the best dressed and worst dressed poker players around today?
Do dice earings, wild cowboy hars and card decorated shirts count?
Do dice earings, wild cowboy hats and card decorated shirts count?
;)
All the regulars dress like shit. Typical slobs with lots of gold chains, need shaves, and wear coats (like my granny and her cold blooded friends). Oh yea, lots of hats (all kinds), sneakers, sandals with white socks (egads!), and sweatshirts that are too small for their beer guts (guess they never heard of Extra Large). Tourists and some of the New York Gypsies dress to the nines, but I do like the babes in the low cut tops and tight spandex pants the best.
GaryCarson's picture on the irc site would indicate that not only does he strangle small dogs for entertainment, but he wears cheap ties too. Not number 1, but in the bottom 10.
Can someone tell me a good book to get for different types of home Poker Games? Thanks.
Limit, No Limit and Pot Limit hold'em!!!
:-)
I know you only deal with hold'em Rounder, but my non-casino playing poker friends get bored with stud and hold'em. I do not want them to get bored since it is easy pickings, even for a rookie like me.
I enjoyed "Thursday Night Poker" by Peter Steiner even though I only play the occasional home game. It has a lot of stuff about Omaha and Omaha split which are good lively games to play at home without having to resort to wild cards and alehouse stuff like that.
Andy.
I was going to suggest that too Andy. It is certainly geared, as the title suggests, to home games. I guess the problem I had with Stiener's book is that the effort I put into reading it didn't really pay off for me-that is, I didn't feel like I really got anything out of it, and I host a game at my house almost every week. There is some valuable info in this book though DCC, Peter Stiener is a retired probabilities prof., so he knows his numbers, but there was some stuff that was a little iffy, and it was not the most interesting book I've read.
Check out "Chilcoot's Poker Page" for a list of home games if you want to add variety: home.gci.net/~chilcoot/poker/
Try introducing loball, razz and high chicago/low chicago. They are easy to learn, and you dont have any of that wild card nonsense.
Mike
The general concepts and principles in Theory of Poker work in home games as well...as long as half the cards in the deck are not wild and the antes are not as big as the bets themselves!
In my first weekend of casino excursions, I got three 4-of-a-kinds...None of them made me huge money, but every time I turned over the cards, people said, "Oh, if only I had 4 of a kind, we would have hit that jackpot."
...being only 18 playing in a 21-and-over cardroom, this began to concern me...what would I do if I hit the jackpot? They certainly wouldn't pay me after I had to give them my SSN and all that...If I hit the jackpot, The floormen would never let me in again. They'd put my picture up on the wall next to the other winners of bad beat jackpots but mine would say, "Card this kid." ...I really hope if I give someone else a bad beat, atleast they will get the money - otherwise I'd have people following me home and killing in my sleep...
So, I'm thinking...4-of-a-kind all of a sudden becomes a very dangerous hand to have...so I was thinking about strategy...On the river, do I bet out and fold to the raise? Or, should I check-raise and fold to that re-raise?...Its probably a few more re-raises before I know for sure he's got quads...maybe I should just ask him, "Do you have quads?" and then fold if he says yes...hmm...maybe if I fold my quads every time, it will give me some sort of game theoretic advantage? - yeah, this really is a big hole in my game...any suggestions?
Post deleted at author's request.
To a casino floorperson and a bar bouncer, saying "I left my ID at home" is, in about as many words, like saying, "I'm underage". No one buys it. Still, they may be bound and allow it.
Yeah, but telling them you left your id at home certainly isn't as big a give away of your antisocial intentions as saying you forgot your superego. ;)
Doesn't everyone lose their superego when they turn 18?
qwerty
If you win the jackpot they only need your social security card which doesn't show your age. At least the times I have had to produce my ID in a casino when winning tournament money or jackpot money all thy want is your social security card.
avoid jackpot games in general if you can. good advice for all ages. find out the law. in nevada they dont pay any bets to underage. in your state it may be different. id consider a phoney id but would give the correct ssn as thats a federal beef.
I am just glad to know that I'm not the only underage guy who plays in casinos all the time. But hey, Fake I.D. is your best out probably. These guards in the So.Cal casinos never even suspect they are fake. Better yet if you have a friend who looka anything at all like you use his.....it worked for me flawlessley (the guards once again never suspected the ID wasn't mine - even though I barely looked anything like the guy on the picture)Sad conclusion to the story.....I lost the damn thing and now have to sneak by the guards just to play some poker.....hell at 18 we're considered adults, why not let us play poker, afterall they allow us to flush money away on crap like the lottery and make us sit on juries etc etc...okay I'll quit rambling on.
yeah. if they want to try me as an adult they should allow me drown my sorrow.
scott
djtj,
I agree with Ray on this one. Once you start breaking the law it's hard to stop. You start lowering your values of what is right. You may get over this stage but some never do. Look your 18 hopefully you have a full life ahead of you and the money you make off the bad beat will be gone in a month or less. I know it's cool to have a fake ID and I had a few, but if I had it to do over I would never have got one. Playing under age in a 21 or over casino, just don't blame the person who catches you for being a jerk. YOU HAVE PUT YOURSELF IN THIS SITUATION YOU MUST ACCEPT THE PENALTIES. The bottom line is your going to do what you got to do because your 18.
good luck paul
First of all, there is no bad beat in AC so we don't have that to "worry" about. If you win any jackpot on any machine in AC, they may or may not, at the descretion of the floor person, as for ID to prove age no matter the amount If the amount exceeds $1200 for an investiment of $1.25 (five quarters), you will need your SSAN. Most people do not carry it with them so they take your word and like a driver's license to back up. If you have a casino card which most people do, thay will verify the card if it is really you. Then no need for more info since you are in their data base already. They will NOT pay off any minor even if you hit the day before your 21st birthday. You are on camera, so getting someone else to pick up the money will not work. sorry
You're 18...and it's illegal for you to play...so why do it at all? DON'T underestimate the potential impact of even a simple arrest for underage gambling (or other misdemeanor), even if the affair is never prosecuted. These days that sort of information shows up on credit reports, employment screening services, and other private and public databases. You can find yourself unable to open a checking account, rent an apartment, land a decent job...all because of ONE negative incident. If you don't believe me, all I can say is, I'VE been there, and done that, and it's no fun at all. Besides, you're 18...at the height of your physical strength, not a care in the world (compared to when you're, say, 38),....why in the world would you want to spend this irreplaceable time stuffed in a smoky cardroom with all of us decrepit old farts when you should be out playing baseball, football, skiing, partying, having sex with any girl who'll hold still long enough, eating to excess, staying up all night..in short, all those things we old folks CAN'T do any more, or won't, because the price is too high. The cardrooms will still be there when you get old and fat, and you need them to get away from your wife or to stave off boredom. Go out and enjoy life, of which poker is only a sad and poor imitation.
Sadly, I must agree with Kevin.
but you're both missing a few things.
the first is that i, and probably some others, have a system of morality that is independent of the law. the only sense in which i consider the law is a risk/reward type fashion. illegal is not sufficient to show immoral.
second. who cares if they can't land a decent job, etc.? i don't. i can't tell heaven from hell. neither one is death and that is all that matters.
third. kinda like second. life is life. it doesn't matter if you're sleeping or skiing. reading or drinking. working or playing. it's all the same and it's all beautiful. life needs no justification in any form it takes. i am not wasting my time when i play poker and i am not wasting my my time when i sit and gaze out the window.
last. if you have to stave off boredom, then you are the one who is living death and should, therefore, be quite reluctant to give advice on life.
scott
Scott, Everybody has their own moral compass and hopefully it is not externally imposed. We all encounter "rules" in life that we ignore or disobey because the rules are irrelevant to our experience, or self-contradictory. The fact is that the prevailing common law DOES coincide with most persons' morality; i.e. people don't do an act that is forbidden by law because they feel that it's simply wrong, not for fear of punishment. I was merely citing the PRACTICAL consequences of what you are doing. I could care less if you're 18, 8, or 98 (although I think the arrogance you show will prevent you from maximizing your winnings, and such arrogance only fades with maturity). And if you don't think a decent job is important, tell that to someone who is sitting is his/her apartment, the rent is a week overdue, and the phone is going to be turned off tomorrow. And despite your feigned indifference to the concept, some moments, some experiences in life ARE far superior to others. However, there are some persons for whom the time spent in a poker room indeed represents the pinnacle of their existence. Far be it from me to say it shouldn't be.
Don't play pocket pair or suited connectors!
Danny
atleast somebody got the humor value of this post.
Stop giving me life advice; I can take care of myself. Laugh a little, don't worry about other people's kids and hope I don't take a jackpot away from you :p
Win, win, win... build a big bankroll, and move up to non-jackpot games. Quick!
This actually happened to me when I was still underage. My quad Kings beat the guy's Aces full. The cardroom didn't honor the bad beat. I cost him 8,000. After he found out that he wasn't gonna get the money, he immediately ordered two shots of whiskey in order to keep himself from "Taking me outside"...The other players at the table told me that I was lucky. The pilot who was sitting at the guy's seat a few minutes earlier was very hot headed and would have jumped across the table and killed me. Just thought I'd make a confession.
Some of us are planning to get together in L.A. for a minimum $50.00 buy-in $1-2 blind NL Hold'em game. This will be a cut-throat social game. After each hand, we'll discuss how we would have played, how Mason would have played, the nasty comments that Gary Carson would have made about the way Mason played it, and finally, the pot will be awarded to the winner based on bets uncalled or a showdown.
If we get sufficient interest, we can get the game spread at the Bike, Commerce, Crystal Park or Hollywood Park for a collection charge of $5.00 per 1/2 hour or less. As an alternative, we can use a $1.00 ante structure with a $3.00 dead drop. This will result in a slightly looser game and, given enough social interaction, lower overall collection costs.
When we had this game every night at the Commerce, the collection was $4.00 per half hour and the game was extremely lively and enjoyable. If we can agree on a place date and time, I will make arrangements to see the game is spread. Post here if you'd be interested.
John I am going to be in LA in early Feb. for the LA Poker Classic. Count me in.
Mike
How about all you fair-weather CA and AZ types chartering a plane and coming up to Edmonton so Dan Hanson and I can get in? We can set the game up in the courtyard of the private poker club here in town for the 1st Annual Great White North Al Fresco Poker Classic. Toke the house $1-2/hand, no drop. Your dollars are worth a ton here, we can arrange guided tours of West Edmonton Mall, etc.
One additional advantage: when it's -25 outside, you will not lose concentration at the table. Truly an "Only the strong survive" type of game.
-25c is only -13f down here in the states. in montana at that temp. im swimming in the lake.
Yeah after he gets his pet polar bear "COKE" to make a hole in the ice.
Oh, so that's why they call you numb-nuts.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
P.S. - I know that as he's reading this, Paul Feeney is kicking himself for not thinking of it first.
Goll-llly. Sounds like fun... IF you guys can figure out a time and IF I can get enough airline scratch together and IF someone can haul my sorry soggy Portland ass around - AND perhaps put me up for an evening??
Then I can grace you all with my fabulous hippielike presence as scott has been so gracious to point out.
I'd love to do that... You can email me privately, too in order to discuss.....
Thanks, Tim
Deal me in.
Gee Tim, you make that sound almost too good to pass up :)
damn right tim's a hippie.
also, id be in the game if i were in the city. i may be back in la this summer. or the game can come to ny.
scott
"damn right tim's a hippie. "
Screw you, I'm going home....
Screw you - Home.
See Ya! Tim
John,
If you guys ever make it over to Las Vegas we spread that very games every Sunday at the Stratosphere at about 6:30 (didn't get started until about 7 last week). The game normally lasts until about 6am and we spread a second game that usually lasts from about 9 until 2.
Randy Refeld
Barring any objections from the law-abiding citizens of this forum, the Caltech students would be glad to participate in some great poker with some great players.
This Friday, January 21st, 7:00 P.M. at the Commerce. Everyone is cordially invited and welcome to participate or watch. Taking signups and seat reservations as of now. $50.00 buy-in, $1-2 blinds. Collection of either $4 or $5 per half hour per player. Initials will go on the board at 7:00 P.M. in the order posted here. I am first, and will be in seat#9.
BTW, I was kidding about dissecting each hand. We'll give the pot winner 15 seconds after each hand to dazzle us with his/her brilliance or baffle us with his/her BS.
I am hoping that this will be a success and will evolve into a regular get together. Later, we might try varying the format, adding some NL 3 draw lowball or pot limit Razz. Remember, sign up first so you don't get shut out.
I will be at Harrah's from 1/19-1/22. I am greatly disappointed to miss this opportunity to meet with you. Have a great game.
Big John,
I don't want you on my left. I can make it and I'd like to claim seat three. From there I can keep an eye on you.
Regards,
Rick
Big John,
Since Rick told me he won't let me look at his cards during the play of the hand I might as well play. Put me in seat number one please. I want to keep the wild gambler types like you on my right and the rocks like Rick and John Feeney if he comes on my left.
Post deleted at author's request.
Hi Badger,
Big John is going to have a poker party at the Commerce this Friday evening. If you're in town, why don't you come down and join the fun at the table. There's still a lot of seats available. Also, it would be a great pleasure meeting the Omaha Champ in person.
Big John,
Count me in if it is in Los Angeles. I'm pretty clueless about no limit against players that do have a clue so I'll be the fish. I will deviate from my usual big buy-in approach I use at limit and you guys will have to get it from me one buy-in at a time but figure I'm good for at least six buy-ins. BTW, does anyone mind if I have someone sit behind me while I play?
Regards,
Rick
Post deleted at author's request.
I'm sure I'll be twice the fish you could ever be Rick.
Maybe being downstream of the loose money that way will help me survive. As you know, Big John, I'll be in touch and will try to put in a little time in this game when I'm up there. (I hope it can be at Commerce or maybe the Bike as those are the main clubs I want to go to.)
After each hand, we'll discuss how we would have played...
Motion to have Ray Zee play in this game. Thank you.
Hi Rick: I was at a wine class last night and the "teacher" had mentioned a California wine variety that imitated a region in Italy (not Chianti, I forgot though), and this Cali variety is called Nebiolo. Do you, perchance come from a wine-making family?
I thought it was really cool that there's a wine "named for" a forum guy... Take Care, Tim
Tim,
I think it is spelled with two "L"s (i.e., Nebiollo). My Dad may have bought a bottle or two but we were never big wine drinkers. I wouldn't know if it is good or bad.
I'm not aware of any connection between these wine-makers and any of my relatives. My grandparants came to this country from Poland and Italy without a pot to pee in like millions of others early in the (I just remembered -last) century. So there is no free room at a nice Italian villa for me :-).
Regards,
Rick
x
I've been told that home poker is legal in Denver, Colorado as long as the game isn't raked. Has anyone checked into this for sure?
Thanks,
Honest Citizen
That's not entirely correct, but it may reflect the practicalities of administering the law.
In Colorado "gambling" is a class 1 petty offense and "profesional gambling" is a class 5 felony. "Gambling," however, is specifically defined by statute to exclude "[a]ny game, wager, or transaction which is incidental to a bona fide social relationship, is participated in by natural persons only, and in which no person is participating, directly or indirectly, in professional gambling." "Professional gambling" means participating in or aiding or abetting "gambling" with the intent to derive a profit therefrom. You'll note a certain circularity here.
The key, at least the way I understand the law to be enforced, is that there must be a "bona fide social relationship" -- everyone must know each other -- and that the house cannot profit directly from in that the activity itself, such as by a rake or time charge. The Sports Bar in Federal Heights, for example, used to run an open hold 'em game every day (perhaps it still does), but the players all had not know each other and the dealers worked on tips with nothing going to the house. Around the time of last year's Superbowl, however, Arvada cops shut down a restaurant's football pool when one of the participants (or maybe the owner) admitted that he didn't know all of the others in the pool. I understand that a number of Denver social clubs spread poker without any hassle but they limit their membership and keep the activity pretty quiet. There are also several quasi-legal (or quasi-criminal)establishments that seem to stay in business.
I've heard several people in the gambling business tell me that the existence of a common dealer or a rake determines whether the game is legal, but I don't see that in the statute. That may be the test for most prosecutors, though.
See generally Colo. Rev. Stat. sect. 18-10-101 et seq.
My understanding of Colorado law is that the game is legal if no one profits from it indirectly, such as a time charge, a rake, or dealers receiving tips.
The Sports Lounge was busted, but only after several years of operation. Usually law enforcemnt does nothing until they receive complaints about a game.
The social relationship issue is vague, and therefore rarely enforced. Just pass the deal and have everyone bring their own refreshments.
Brett (who only has one conviction for professional gambling)
That is great information, thanks guys. In my game, we usually have one dealer. I have an oval table, and it is inpractical for the people on the end to deal. Generally, I sit in the middle and deal most of the night, sometimes trading off with another player in the middle. Along with using two decks, this format also speeds up the game.
I don't rake the game, don't accept tips, and we generally share the cost of food. Most players know each other very well, though we do occasionally invite a new acquaintance. Sometimes from these very pages!
Do you think I should make sure I pass the deal more often, or does it matter?
Only one conviction for professional gambling? Is that a badge of honor in the professional community? I'm sure there is a good story behind that one ... I'm all ears!
Thanks again,
I live in Denver and we run a game inside a poolhall. Before it all started we contacted the police department and researched it very extensively. And you're right, as long as the house does not make any money from the table and everyone knows everyone there is nothing that the police can do. In fact there are police inside the establishment on a daily basis and alot of the times they watch and they have said nothing . We usually run a 1-3 or 2-4 game which keep the stakes fairly cheep, but I am interested in moving up the ladder a little and would like to find a game with a little more $ invoved. Any info would be appreciated.
jas
My game has a smaller limit than the game you are already playing so I doubt you would be interested. However, I would be interested in yours. Also, if you send me your e.mail address I'll let you know if I hear about any other games. I know one guy who is thinking about putting a mid-limit game together.
Though, I am still a little curious about the everyone knows everyone rule. What the hell does that mean? If I bring a friend to the game, and he knows me, and then I introduce him around before the game starts, does that qualify? What about meeting a guy over the internet, exchanging some e.mails, and then inviting him to the game? What if you form a club, and formally induct new members, now does everyone know everyone?
As long as it is ok, I welcome any additions to my game. It is small and friendly. Shoot me an e.mail.
Pat
The way that the police explained it to us is that it is considered "friendly" gambling, which according to them is legal. The way we do it, is that when a new player that no one knows comes and sits down, we all introduce ourselves and the police say that that is ok. Believe it or not I would be interested in your game and maybe a few others as well. I will shoot you an e-mail later and let you know.
jas
the only way the police bust the game is to have an insider bust it by acknowleding the house split : This happened at Fairchilds. Most games in town rake. A player can get action in the circuit everyday of the week at varying limits if he wishes. One social club in town is sponsored by a Denver Police Charity organization. Getting busted usually results from what I've seen by people being horribly stuck compalining to the cops. The casinos in the hills do not like the competition.
The sports lounge, as people refer to it, is back in business at a location referred to as the Matahorn. Interesting that Mr.Alger quotes the Colorado Statutes. He must be a lawyer. The statutes are only enforced when the protection hasn't been paid. Denver politics.In the late sixties Denver had the cops busted for running a bordello and burglary ring.
Since posting, I've recieved my usual harssment call fron DPD detectives over some issue they failed to investigate 2 and 1/2 years ago. Probably just a coincidence.
I want to drive from Minnesota and play hold-em in the Chicago area. Any help finding poker rooms, or web pages that can tell me about poker rooms in the Chicago area is needed. I can go during the week or on week-ends. I just need to know where to go. Thanks.
Sara
My favorite page is www.casinocity.com Use the search feature in the casino directory to find exactly the room you're looking for. www.pokercentral.com can sometimes be useful for a little extra information, but in general is out of date and less accurate.
Hollywood Casino in Aurora (off RT 88 west of the city) usually has 5-10 and 10-20 hold'em, 1-5 stud. 10% rake to $5. Occasionally bigger games, and sometimes Omaha -8. No boarding times, which is nice.
Harrahs (unless the name changed again - I don't keep up) in E. Chicago Indiana is just south of the city. Their casino in Joliet IL also spreads poker, but I've never been there.
Hollywood in Aurora opens at 8:30 or 9 a.m. every day (they tell me, I've never been there that early). They close at 6 a.m. (I have closed the room on more than one occasion), everyday but Saturday, when they close at 8 PM. Joliet still has no poker on Saturdays, I believe. Aurora has a $25-$50 half Omaha/8 half 7-stud/8 game that goes on Mondays and Fridays. They have a 20-40 holdem game that goes on Thursdays. They have a $15-30 Omaha/8 game that goes on Tuesdays. The 5-10, 10-20 holdem, and the 1-5 stud go everyday. Food comps are very liberal, supposed to be for 4 or 5 hours play, but if you play a couple of hours, and get hungry, I've never seen anyone turned down. They have a buffet, and a diner where the food is good. After 12:30 am, tho, you just get hot dogs/pizza at the snack bar, cause that's all that's left open. I think they got a $49 room rate at the Comfort Inn nearby, I know they sent me a coupon, but I always go home (live just an hour away). Games range from loosey-goosey to loosey-maniacal, so fasten your seat belt! Good Luck, Frank Brabec
vince will be quite annoyed that he missed a woman posting. you have to post regularly at least until vince gets back. it's only fair.
scott
Anyone know of a palm application that can be used to keep track of poker results, either tournament or ring games. I'm using a spreadsheet right now on my palm and if there isn't one out there, I'm going to right my own (probably java/kvm based)
I was talking to John and I've decided that something needs to be said here about Brazillian Bar-b-que. It is incredible. Now, I'm sure Kevin L. that scott isn't listening to you. I'm not listening to you. But, if you said, since getting a misdemeanor arrest I have been given the boot by brazillian bar-b-ques, I am sure scott will be at attention. This is because scott, like I, understands that although all life is beautiful. Life at the brazilian bar-b-que is more beautiful.
For those of you who don't know about it, I would suggest reading an introduction to the subject by a more mediocre brazillian writer like silberstang or Saddam Hussein (who according to Davey has begun to write mediocre brazillian books). Anyhow, once you have a background, then I suggest you discuss it on an advanced plane with me.
Let it be said that the best brazillian eaters in the world, are, of course in brazil. And like Huck Seed, they could not care less for the forum.
Now, as for canadians. I have an apology to make. i saw the hurricane last night, and it was great. Canadians, like New Yorkers are great.
alex
I would just like to note that, for anyone not following jimmy jazz's "I'm a pansy" thread on the Hold 'Em board, Rounder informed him that he needs to up his red meat intake. As the Brazilian BBQ will allow you to consume your year's quota of red meat in a single afternoon for about ten bucks, perhaps young Jimmy should take heed of AlexB's advice.
Niels,
When my brother came out to visit last year we went to one for lunch with my buddy Greg. He had nineteen portions of red meat! And your right, the price was only around $10 bucks. Too bad he doesn't play poker. He wouldn't just call with trip queens. Vegetarians are wimps!
Regards,
Rick
it would certainly give me pause to hear that people convicted of misdemeanors are deprived of brazillian bbq. however, i trust that in our glorious nation one ammendment or another would shield me from such an atrocity.
have you been back to green fields? it's really sad. no more flank steak and smaller portions. they won't give you 2 pieces at a time. they have lots of business and don't remember when we were their only customers. ingrates.
hurricane was cool. much better than sitting in the lobby of the theatre, which is how maniac mark spent that portion of the evening.
did you hear that julia and shekar didn't ditch us? her car broke down. isn't that damn funny?
scott
scott,
my family hit greenfields for the first time 3 weeks ago. It's hard to imagine the place used to be better. It was terrific.
BTW I'm having a problem with the whole "small caps scott" thing because it's in actuality lower case scott. Small caps would be CAPITAL letters but all the same size as lower case letters. At this point I don't think we can effect a change but perhaps we can include an emoticon in your handle because of your affection for the little buggers.
small:-)capsôżôscott mmmm, . . . it needs work.
SammyB
where? is it a national chain? or are you in the dc area too? greenfields is damn good. but the flanksteak is, i mean was, even better than the sirloin. it was the best. and now it's gone. they used to have about 5 or 6 other types of meat. rabbit, etc. what i really missed was the flank steak. it was so good. gone. now it's gone. gone. gone and before you could say "leave the rest" and go to work. now you get one sliver each time they come around. it takes hours to eat. and they have the audacity to start trying to push you out of there after an hour and a half. we got great service about 10 months ago when we were the only people in the place. and now, just look at what its become. it's sold out, friend. sold out to the man!! it used to be one of us, and now it's just a looming shadow fading as the sun sets.
about the small caps scott thing, you are, of course, correct. but, unless you also only write in lowercase letters, scott is sufficient to distinguish me from the various Scott's.
how'd that big s get there? i think this line is traced. i have to go.
scott
I don't know if Greenfields is national but thtre is one on Northern Blvd 1 or 2 blocks west of the Van Wyck Expwy. If you're old enough to drive you can get there from Columbia in about 25 minutes. I'd take the Triborough to the Grand Central to northrn blvd and hang a right.
today I got me a new Super Chromatica Hohner Blues Harmonica. Its awesome, but was expensive. I figure it will be an investment on when I'm so famous that people will auction my musical instruments like they did Elvis'.
Haven't been back to green fields, but you can count on me to get all of the new metropolitan buzz on good food. A place near my dad's house just opened called the Peking Duck. 12.95 for a whole duck. And its a good duck. not bad, huh?
its a shame green fields slipped. We should open our own place.
a place near nist beats that. good peking duck for 9.95. but only for lunch.
we should open our own place. with our vast experience eating food we'd be assured success.
scott
I mean a GOOD duck.
i'm not picky. i just like duck.
scott
Sounds like a lotta harmonica. Keep us posted (heh) on your bluesy progress.
Only $12.95 -- and it's a good duck, eh? Always worthwhile to find a good duck.
I don't know much about duck, but you can't swing a dead harmonica without hitting a few turkeys around here.
Before I started reading this thread, I thought it was going to have something to do with Women's Lib. I suppose some of the infants on this board don't know anything about that.
are wearing a bra now!
ha ha.
who's got the last laugh
new york is still here
alex
I think you must be taking lessons from Paul Feeney, or maybe I'm just tired.
To the extent that I understand the message, it may be a new kink worth trying someday, but I'm not yet that desperate.
'
I am going to be moving to Seattle and would like some advice on the best places to play. Also any comments on the play in general, is it tough compared to other places or soft. I play limits around 10-20 but any comments on the Seattle poker scene would be helpful.
Jon (if that's your real name ;)
The best poker in the Seattle area is at the Muckleshoot casino in Auburn. Its about a 35 minute drive from downtown Seattle. Big room, very friendly staff and dealers and a very generous comp policy ($7 in food every session just for sitting down), the rake is reasonable too ($3 max on LL). They spread 1-5 up to 20-40 Stud and 4-8 to 20-40 HE (maybe some Omaha 8 or better too). I can only afford to play 4-8 so can't comment on your limit. In my game their are occasional maniacs but mostly people seeing way too many flops with bad cards, not raising too much, playing lots of draws and showing down with bad stuff. I have seen some folks move up to 10-20 after not exhibiting too much skill in the 4-8 games. Look for directions on the Muckleshoot web site.
There is another Indian casino in Marysville (about 30 miles N of Seattle) and a couple of smaller cardrooms around Seattle (none allowed in the city limits). One is called the Hideaway. My friends tell me the games there are super wild so I stay away. I would start with Muckleshoot and maybe ask some players there for other suggestions. My guess is they'll say don't bother with anywhere else.
As far as comparing it to other places I have not gotten around too much (only WA and Vegas). Local pros tell me that Washington State has some very high caliber players. Maybe others on this forum can corroborate that.
Maybe I'll see you around.
KJS
I owned and operated 2 cardrooms in S.King County for many years. We sold out just before the Muckleshoot went into bus. Never played there. For 10/20 the best game on the west coast is the Hideaway at 145th& Aurora. For everything else try Diamond Lils in Renton. Jon Kitna Huh,Hmmmm.... excellent poker is played in the northwest play good!
The muckleshoot is by far the best action for your money.The dealers are good and the shift managers are the best I've ever encountered.Scott & Jim on swing shift are the best in the business.Anybody gets out of line and the problem is taken care of ASAP,you are aknowledged upon entering the room,the atmosphere is friendly if not jovial,the food is excellent,the comps are loose.
I feel compelled to share one story about Muckleshoot that runs counter to Big Slick's comments. In qualification I will say that I have not seen anything like this happen since this episode. Overall, the staff seems top notch.
The story in question involved a 30ish maybe intoxicated man who gots his chips and jacket taken from a 4-8 HE table and his chips were not returned by the casino. He claims that he was getting low and wanted a minute to walk around so he left his jacket and $11 in chips on the table. When he returned (well under the time limit) his seat had been taken by someone else. His coat was returned to him but the staff did not acknowledge taking his chips and basically said tough luck. He sat at my table later and I witnessed much interaction with him and the floor and even casino managers. Unbelievably, they told him that he was obligated to take his chips when he left the table, even if he was going to return! Now there is almost always a list in that room so seats get gobbled up immediately. Besides, EVERYONE leaves their chips when they go to the bathroom, for a walk around, to eat, etc. That's how you reserve your seat. I was very suprised that the casino tried to pass off this rule in this case and, furthermore, chose to have the casino manager argue with this guy over $11 worth of chips in front of many partrons. The ruling was bad and it was bad tact to have such a conversation within earshot of the tables.
It did make me wonder if patrons would be allowed to see the videotapes in such a situation. It seemed to me there was some controversy about who took the chips and pocketed them. I was thinking that if I was the guy I would sternly ask to see the tapes to clear it up. Does anyone think the casino would oblidge?
KJS
Some lady at my poker table last night, made referece to the old adage "If a tree falls in a forest, and noboby is around to hear it, does it make a sound? She concluded that we'll never know. A few other people insisted that she was wrong, and that the falling tree would make a sound!
It's been my experience that many people see the old adage as some sort of philosophical question. But in high school, a science teacher of mine assured us that it's not a philosophical question, but rather, a physics question which basically concludes that, "If there aren't any ears around(or tape recorder)when the tree falls, then there ain't no sound."
There are three components that make-up sound.
(1)a source(Whatever creates the sound waves)
(2)a medium(That which the sound waves travel on, Air, Water, etc....)
(3)a receiver(Ears, tape recorder)
Take away any one of those components, and ala-Kazam, No Sound.
One of the funnest examples of this fact is to remove one of the most common mediums that sound waves travels on, which is air.
Our science teacher brought an old fashion alarm clock to class one day, which had two bells on the outside of the clock. He placed the clock on a class plate and turned on the alarm, which was incredibly loud. He quickly placed a clear class dome over the clock muffling the sound somewhat. He also had a small generator with a rubber tube that he hooked up to the dome to suck out the air. While the air was still in the enclosure, you could hear the alarm and of course see the little hammer banging away on the two bells. But as the air was almost all drawn out, you could hear the volume dropping (just like somebody turning the volume knob on a stereo down). Then, when the air was completely drawn out he turned off the generator. Let me tell you, it was so eerie seeing that little hammer banging away on those bells, but yet--No Sound! No sound what-so-ever! Nada! Zip!
I was going to try explaining what I had learned, but everybody's view seemed so etched in stone(BooZe temporarily does that), so I just listened.
quantum physics, if no one is there to see something, is that something still there?
brad
You could define sound to include just the first 2 components, and I don't see why that would be an improper definition.
The philosophical part has to do with the hearing. Every time we've been there to listen, the falling tree made sound. However, does that mean that the event necessarily produces sound every time, like when we're not there? Not a very important question, IMO, but that's what it is.
BTW, how come you didn't hear the alarm faintly ringing through the materials it was sitting on? I mean, sound does carry through solid objects, so some sound should have carred through the bottom of the container, where it came in contact with the alarm clock. Once it reaches the exterior, some of that energy will be transmitted to the air outside, and you would hear it.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
There are a lot of silly conversations at poker tables and this is just one of them.
what if a man was alone in the forest without a woman and made a statement would he still be wrong(:>
well, go ahead and try it.
brad
'
d
except for a red breasted nuthatch there are no sounds in the forest as we got a foot of new snow last nite. you are all correct.
"Shoot em, clean em, cook em, eat em and mount em. Unless you only want to hold em." OK now you want me to hold them because of too much red meat. This is harder for me to understand than LL multiway.
OOTMB
great players are hard to read.
brad
Hi guys. When you're all finished with the tree in the forest...try one of the following:
1.How much deeper would the ocean be if sponges didn't live in it?
2.Is it a good vacuum cleaner if it really sucks?
Andy m.
This question has always irked me, if a tree falls of course it makes a sound even if "someone" (a human) isn't there because some other living thing is certainly there to hear it. That's the bottom line, no one can dispute this.
ATWOOD wrote: "of course it makes a sound even if 'someone'(a human)isn't there, because some other living thing is certainly there to hear it."
If you re-read the original post, Stewart wrote: "If there aren't any ears around, then there is no sound."
Well, other living creatures have ears, and Stewart's hypothetical is based on "there not being any ears around" to complete the circuit; (1)source, to(2)medium, to(3)receiver(ears and a working brain).
Of course the falling tree would create sound waves, but Stewart's contention is that, "if" there are no receivers around, then the circuit is incomplete, so there is NO sound--just sound waves.
Martin D
and no one pays to see it, is it still a full house?
Since there is no medium in outer space, there is no sound in outer space.
I don't get it. What does space have to do with psychic powers?
"What does space have to do with psychic powers?"
That's easy. All 'psychics' have a lot of empty 'space' between their ears.
I agree with you Stewart. If there are no recievers there when the tree falls, it would be like that scene in the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey, where the main star was stuck outside the ship because Hal refused to let him back in. Then he turned the pod's door towards the main ship's opened door. And when he blew the exploding bolts on his pod, which catapulted him into the ship, there wasn't a sound during the whole scene, cool!
Then he closed the door and turned the valve, which released air into the room, and the sound waves suddenly had a medium to travel on, so sound flooded the room. Cool......
Well Stewart, I'm no physics major, but I would have to say that it does make a sound. Now, i base my theory on two things
a)common sense
and
b) I don't know why there has to be a reciver for there to be sounds. Of course there must be a source, and there must be some means of travel for the sound waves, but why does there have to be an audio proof that the sound occured (i.e. ears, recording device). It seems to me that there must be another way to test whether or not sound waves were present. We know of course, that sound waves are a source of energy, that is, they can perform work. Kind of like the fat lady hitting that last note at the opera and shattering a wine glass...a silly example, but you get the idea...decide whether or not the sound waves existed, not whether anyone heard them.
mike
Mike said, "I don't know why there has to be a receiver for there to be sounds."
Mike,
Your brain turns sound waves into sound. Without a reciever, the whole event of a tree falling would be a silent movie. Just like it would be a silent movie if there is no medium for the sound waves to travel on.
-Randy
How about this, when a deaf man gets in his car after having it in the garage to be repaired, and feels the vibration of the sound waves blaring from the stereo, allthough he cannot hear the music, will you argue that the sound does not exist?
Mike,
The next time you're with a totally deaf person, ask him to help you with an experiment(assuming he reads lips). Have him put his hand on the hood of your car, then whack the hood really hard with a baseball bat, so he's sure to feel the vibration. Then, when the vibration stops, ask him what he heard. If he's confused by your question, just explain to him what you said to me in your post here at 2+2. I'm sure that will clear things right up for him, then you can post what he tells about how hearing and feeling a vibration are one in the same. Good Luck!
Randy
PS: Oh yeah, if you know any other deaf people who are looking for a good deal on a car stereo, be sure to let me know. Thanks!
I guess maybe I have been aproaching this question wrong. My point about the deaf guy and the mechanics at the garage turning his radio up were that he would sense the vibration produced by the sound waves. Randy, that is not the same things as pounding the hood of the car to make him feel the vibration. Now, there is a possibility that I am interpreting this wrong. I was trying to argue the fact that sound waves are present, which they are, but perhaps I am wrong. Maybe sound is a term for the interpretation of sound waves by your brain. In which case, if there are no ears in the forest, then no it does not make a sound. Furthermore, if you are there when the tree falls, it STILL doesn't make a sound, only sound waves.
So anyway, this is the second time today I have admitted I was wrong, so try to be kind, my ego is hurting.
mike
"Maybe sound is a term for the interpretation of sound waves by your brain. In which case, if there are no ears in the forest, then no it does not make a sound."
Actually, in this case, the tree falling doesn't make a sound whether a person is there or not. The tree never makes a sound it just makes sound waves.
As Randy himself said, "Your brain turns sound waves into sound."
But then again, is there fundamentally any difference between sound waves and sound? I don't think so. Is your brain really turning sound waves into sound or is it just receiving sound waves.
So really the answer depends on whether or not someone makes a distinction between sound waves and sound.
ok, I'll stop rambling now...
The brain does turn sound waves into sound, and if that part of the brain(the yahbadabadoola)is severly damaged, then you won't be able to hear a thing, even if your ears are in perfect working order.
Deaf people don't drive. They scoot
alex
.
Well, I was a physics major, and there is simply nothing to debate on this question. Here you go:
When a tree falls, the impact with the ground creates shock waves both in the ground, and through the air. The waves in the air will continue to travel until they die out due to the natural impedance of the atmosphere. If, along the way, they strike anything, they will impart energy to it. That energy will be converted into heat or mechanical motion. If the thing that they strike happens to be an ear drum, then the mechanical motion created will cause small bones in the ear to move, which will cause tiny cilia to also move and trigger nerve endings, which will transmit the information to the brain as 'sound'. If there is no ear in the way, the sound waves will just continue on.
So when the tree falls, the exact same thing happens whether anyone is there to hear it or not, in the same way that a radio station still broadcasts music even if no one has a radio turned on.
A lot of these 'philosophical' questions are just silly, and wouldn't even be debated if the questioners had the foggiest notion of the physics involved.
Next?
...about the refrigerator light?
Thanks, John. I attempted an empirical study, but slammed the fridge door on my head. Now I have a headache.
schroedinger's cat?
Dan wrote:
"If there is no ear in the way, the sound waves will just continue on"
I believe they're going to continue on whether there is an ear in the way or not.
However, if there's no one there to see it, is the tree really there at all?
here is the answer--
there is always a sound because when a tree falls sound waves are sent out. because a person is not there to here it doesnt mean something else is not. plants can and do hear and react to sound. when the tree falls other plants around it and itself if its still alive will hear and respond to the sound. plants have feeling too. remember that John Feeney when you eat your vegetables.
That is an interesting point Z.. While plants don't have ears, studies have been done that show plants react to sound, such as people talking to thier plants and playing music. Plants don't have ears, and they don't have brains, so even if they could "hear" the sound waves, they couldn't process them and turn them into actual sound due to a lack of a brain.
I'm not exactly sure which is true, but it seems silly to say that the tree doesn't make a "sound". Like I said before, it obviously produces sound waves ( a fact that is not in dispute), however, the argument is whether or not it produces "sound", as opposed to "sound waves". The plant example makes an interesting dimension to the problem.
How about this...if thier are no plants OR ears (or a recording device), then is there a sound?
Mike,
I don't mean to sound condescending, but I'm impressed with how far you've come in such a short time, from your first two posts in this thread, to your last post here to Ray Zee. In your first two posts, your arguments seemed so emotionally based. Then in your 3rd post, you start to calmly explain you're point of view. Now in this last post to Ray Zee, especially the last two paragraphs, you present some very well thought out points, totally devoid of emotion.
I realize how tough it can be to 'not' get emotional when we are faced with a point of view that's in direct opposition to our own.
Good Job! Martin D
.
We seem to be using two definitions of sound and hence all the confusion.
Definition 1: Tree falls causing soundwaves to travel thru the air.
Definition 2: Tree falls causing soundwaves to travel thru the air and be received by a receptor.
If we use D-2 then by definition,without a receptor, there is 'no sound'.
If we use D-1 then we can conclude that the falling tree does cause 'sound' because if it didn't we would not be able to hear it whether we were in the forest or not.
How do we know the falling tree caused soundwaves this time just because it did every other previous time? We don't! [David Hume].
As for Ray's last post [something [the plants] hear the soundwaves therefore the falling tree caused sound] implies that there must be a receptor for sound to occur [D-2].Liebnitz,a 17th or 18th century philosopher also believed that nothing exists unless it is perceived and that things exist even if no one is there to see them because God perceives them.
Personally I go with D-1.Our senses are for obtaining data from an objective universe who's existence is not dependent on us.
Andy M.
Ah, but we can often measure after the fact and find the effects of those sound waves. For example, if the sound waves touch a liquid, the liquid will ripple. If the liquid happens to solidify at that instant, the sound may be recorded in it (i.e. fast-drying paint). Also, with a sensitive enough thermometer, you might detect the increase in heat on objects as the sound waves hit them.
And of course, there's always a wax drum with a needle and a diaphram...
Know I've heard eveything! Mr. Zee, either I need to relearn what the definition of a fact is, or you need to stick to stud poker. Hmmmmmm, I think I'll go with the latter of the two.
Allen
the word 'know' and the word 'now', as in "Now I've heard everything."
plastic ball. Then someone struck his ball with a bat. that's what we should be talking about.
less chat more bat
hey scottie, "the dolphins cry" is a super good song by Live. And I found it by myself!
alex
Hey, I believe I was the one who told you that was a good song, so don't be going around saying "Oh, look at me, I know good music!". You're nothing but a hack, and a hack you'll always be I'm sorry to say.
Mark
yes, it is a good song and i am not surpised that alex could not even find this song himself. but, mark, the song is currently all over mainstream rock radio. and you discovered it!! you should be a detective.
and you are not sorry. you thrill yourself in rightfully declaring alex a hack.
scott
I never claimed to have discovered the song. I simply was the one who told Alex it was a good song when he was in my car and he hadn't really heard it before. Maybe one day if you learn to check your facts before you make an ass of yourself you could become a detective like me. But yeah, it is funny to call Alex a hack. I'd call you one too but I don't want to get stabbed.
also, i'm not a hack. I'm just as entitled to live as either of you.
also, i got some more good songs, also totally on my own some buffalo springfield, filter (credit mark), and aimee mann(she's actually pretty good, her music is on the soundtrack from magnolia)
mark, get your big ass up to visit
Bill Bruford's, 'One of a Kind'? If not, I'll have to assume you guys aren't musicians.
i'm not a musicion. i have heard of bill bruford and he is ok. i don't like chick singers, though. nothing personal, i just don't like their voices. jamesh is a musicion, a drummer in fact, let's hear what he has to say of bill bruford.
scott
I'm suprised you've heard of him. There is no singing on the 'One of a Kind' album though.
You would be suprised at what people know on this forum!!! Bill Bruford (excellent drummer)-King Crimson-Williams College fall of 1971. Robert Fripp (savage guitarist), David Cross (Violinist extroadinaire), anyway one of my favorite concerts of all time. Pete Sinfield broke off from Fripp because he said Fripp was a maniac. Lenny White is one of my favorite jazz drummers. He played in Return To Forever one of my favorite progressive jazz bands. Al Dimeola (favorite guitarist), Chick Corea (piano/harmonica), Bassist can't remember off the top of my head excellent.
Music to my ears.
paul
...He's got a harmonica!
Bro you know what they say about Harmonica players!!!!!
oh when the saints go over there oh over there oh over there i want to be in that rhumba when the saints go ove there
alex
hmmmmmmmm i think you need to do more reading than talking.
Oh, you mean like 'Alice in Wonderland', right?
Z is preparing your salad as I write this. There is no anecdote he grows them himself on COKE dung underneath the floor of his half-moon outhouse, which is really a subterranean cellar (lavoratory). You shall be able to hear the plants as they grow above you as you are transfer to meet "Alice In Wonderland". You will also understand the "Three Levels Of Play" and much more but your physical presence will be gone.
Drosophila
I just got a private email message from K_S telling me that he'd heard of a poker place in Portland by the name of the 123 Club (Chinatown/Downtown area). I've been here almost 6 years and never heard of it - seems like it would be a private/quasi(il)legal place. Has anyone ever heard of it?
I know some of you guys used to live in the NW... Little help, please! Thanks a lot Tim
Anyone know a website i can find up to date results a the carnivale of poker, besides rgp.
Go to rec.gambling.poker
Mike Paulle is doing a great job of covering each day's event in detail. He posts the full write-up each day on rgp in addition to the printed copies being handed out at COP.
Diane
x
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Any one know of a local game in the Manhattan, Ks area that I could play in? Any info would be appreciated.
Chuck
Looks like the rumors are true.
RGP has had several posts indicating that the TAJ is now non smoking.
I am going Sunday to see and smell it myself.
Danny S
now i may go back and play during their tournaments not that they need my business.
HATS OFF TO ALL THE TAJ POKER ROOM PERSONNAL!
Here's a conversation I had while playing at the Trop yesterday:
Me: So I hear the Taj went all non-smoking. Dealer: Yeah, this is the first weekend they've been. Me: Do the players like it? Have you heard anything? Dealer: Well, we've been VERY busy here!
shooter
Just returned from my first experience at the new Taj.
It was great. My sessions lasted a lot longer. I felt fine aftwerwards. And the poker room was packed.
Danny S
damn those poker rooms go non smoking and now they get so crowded you have to wait for a seat.
Friday started out just fine I won the local 100 player $30 buy in NL HE tournament $1500 1st prize money (BTW 2+2 and RGP poster Jeff delt the last table) and I had to hustle from Casino Arizona to the Airport to just catch my flight.
Got in about 5pm and immediately began to play satellites - 1st 3 I lost in the 1st few hands with QQ twice and AK - flopped a K. Well 4th satellite I got heads up and played it out for 30+ min. final hand was AKc all in against 78 - we each had about the same amount of chips and an 8 hit the turn. That one hurt a bit. Couldn't believe he called my big bet with 78 this guy was apretty good player and I put him on being better than that.
Looked for Vince, mah and Diane so many people fit their desctiptions Vince Black Bulls hat and mah with a black cowboy hat (1/2 the guys wear this stuff and I didn't see any blonds with a Green Bay Packer shirt. It would have been nice to see them I wish more would post their pics on Dicks page.
Sat. Morning won the 1st satellite and got my $500 chip for the big one in the afternoon played 2 others and got heads up in both lost with the best hand both times. Kept getting out drawn.
1pm $540 buy in NL HE - had to be over 600 in this one the tournament didn't start until 1:30 cuz of all the late folks signing up. T$500 to start. about the 5th or 6th hand I get pocket Q's make a raise to $50 and get raised to $200 very loose limper calls and I call K hits board I fold raiser shows AA - loose limper had K2 and won with 3 K's - that was it for me - I never saw so many 5-3 and 8-2 before I didn't see 3 flops. Last hand I had $150 and in late position had 88 went in and Tom McEvoy called my raise from the small blind. He had QQ and I was out after 2 hours of virtually nothing.
Well that is my sad story for the TOC - it was an uneventful trip.
Congrats for winning your way there in the local tourney. When you won the satellite and got a $500 chip was that your entry? If it was the experience did not cost you much. What is the SB doing with QQ? I wonder if we will read about that hand? Are you reporting real loose hands entering in a $500 event? Sounds like the $25 ones we have around here/ Dave
I don't call - a call QQ in the sb a loose call do you.
There are lose players at all limits. I was watching a pot limit game where there was TTx one heart and a lot of heat being applied by a guy with 3 T's caller called a $600 bet on the flop and $1000 on the turn and $1500 on the river with 5h4h caught his runner runner flush for a big win. Now that is loose.
CONFRONT CRAZY PANTS McGEE!!!!!!! LET ME TELL YOU BOY, THAT CRAZY PANTS WOULD HAVE STOLEN YOUR GOLD TOOTH FILLINGS TO BOOT!!!!! HE'S ONE SHIFTY CHARACTER, AND YOU HAVE TO STAY ON YOUR TEOS WITH HIM!!!!!! JUST THE OTHER DAY TOLLED HIM "I AM THE CHAMP OF THE WORLD", BUT HE SAID "NO DICE BABY". HE TRIED TO GRAB MY TROPHEE SO I CUT HIM DOWN WITH A GLARE. THAT WAS A CLOSE ONE SO TAKE MY ADVICE AND STAY CLEAR OF CRAZY PANTS McGEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Was trying to say QQ is quite a hand for SB when others are in for 8-2, 5-3 etc. Bad one to hit you. Our local casino is have a tourney early Feb with the prize being entry to the July TOC at Orleans $2000 entry events. Will invest in that one; and hope to get some cards. Last tourney snuck into the money with virtually no cards unless you count the QQQ I had that got rivered by a flush. Could not get him out of drawing to the flush as 2 flopped and he had AKs. Having good results from my Cloutier book. Regards, Dave
Is this Carnival of Poker? n/t
Obviously Rounder is talking about his trip to Vegas for the Carnivale of Poker (COP) He just got his initials mixed up.
Too bad he missed our lunch meeting. mah, Mason, Donna Harris, Jan Fisher, Lee Munzer, Mike Sexton, and a few others all showed up and had a great lunch courtesy of Donna Harris and the Mirage Cardroom.
Not sure where the idea came from of Diane being blonde! I have very short dark brown hair (better than my natural gray) tall and heavy. Generally hard to miss since every time I am in a game, my mouth is chattering away.
The physical set up of the tournament room at Harrah's was awful. As a result, I spent most of my time playing $10-20 and 20-40 at Mirage. I had a great time. Staff was friendly and efficient. Games were great and comps were available for players.
Mirage definitely has a niche with their evening tournaments also. They run them Sunday - Thursday evenings at 7 pm. Well attended, big prize pools and many name players were seen there each night.
Sorry we didn't get to meet, hopefully our paths will cross again soon. I will be down in Tunica the end of February for SARGE and then again end of March for Horseshoe's big tournament.
Diane from Green Bay
x
Well I am no big limit player, but I have some idea that this hand was absolutely crazy. I was just waiting for a table and watched the 10-25 PLO game that was the table right in front of the board, next to the "big" game the 25-50 PLH game. Two guys had all the money, big stacks of Benjamins. Most other guys were around the buy-in of a dime. One guy went all in 3 pots in a row, lost them all, and kept coming out with another dime from his pocket. He raised the next hand to $75 under the gun, 6 players call him, one folds, then the small blind calls and the big blind goes all in for $575. The UTG player then for the 4th hand in a row goes all in for $1000. One player folds, another thinks and then calls, one player folds, the next has a big wad of cash and calls, the guy after him is the other "big stack" so to speak and calls. The small blind has $800 of it and puts it in. So we have a pot of about $5500 before the flop with 3 guys in, one guy almost in, and two guys with enough money to buy my car still there. The flop ends up being 46J, the shortest player goes in for $300 I think, the two players call. The turn comes a 7 and the first player counts his money and bets 3 dimes. Player two thinks a bit, then goes over him with 7 dimes. Player one thinks for an eternity, then calls. River comes a 9, both players check. Player two wins this monster pot with get this, A359, nothing suited to make baby straight! Player one mucks his cards face up mumbling, he had JJ54, top set on the flop. The guy who went all 4 in a row has 8822. The big blind had aces, the guy who went in on the flop had kings, and the small blind had some garbage, i think 10662 with two hearts. You going to tell me this was a tightly played game? I haven't played PLO much, but I almost choked seeing how this played out. Sure these guys are real good, maybe good at gambling... There's my trip report for you, I didn't even get into my game, the list took over an hour and I gave up and played over at Bellagio instead.
Fellow Forum Members,
I'll be in Vegas from the 21st through the 23rd of this Month. I'll probably be hanging out in the 6/12 to 10/20 range Texas Hold'em and Stud games at the Mirage and Bellagio.
Dick was kind enough to put my Mug on his Players page, so if you see me stop by and say Howdy! I usually go by the handle "Leroy". He He He! Just too many of us Chris'es running around, and the Cardrooms always mangle my last name.
Now that I'm up on Dick's page I expect to see everyone else there too! Later, Chris
Arrived in LV this weekend. Getting my butt kicked so far. The highlight of the trip: Last night, while Vince and I were talking, Mason walked right between us, not knowing (or caring) who we were. Tried to get Vince to introduce himself, but he was just too nervous about being that close to his idol.
Not sure how Vince managed to cash in on that tournament, he has a nasty habit of raising (pre-flop) with JT. But we had a good time playing at the Mirage, with John Bond and Roy Cooke.
There are lots of live games at Harrah's, I have played in the 30-60 and 50-100, both had lots of action. There are also pot limit games with blinds of 10-25 up to 100-200. Both The Mirage and Bellagio were packed with players this weekend also.
Right now, I'm getting ready to go out and recoup my losses, so if you're playing with me and I raise, please don't call.
Brett
3-Bet, I will be in LV next week for a couple of days. I have a comp trip to Laughlin but will be scooting up to the Mirage/Bellagio/wherever on the 25th or 26th. If you are going to be around, I'd like to meet you. Out.
I'm planning to come up for this tournament probably for the 2/4 Limit HE & NL HE on 2/6 - any suggestions for a near by hotel.
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I'm certain he was just waiting for Vince Lepore to elaborate.
Not sure if you are serious , but I never heard you.
Post deleted at author's request.
Yeah yeah, it's a bit premature to post this, but considering all of the young ivy leaguers that are now on the forum, I think prematurity is appropriate.. :)
I'll be in Vegas Memorial Day Weekend - Not sure yet where I'm staying, but I'd love to get together with any, according to Abdul, twoplustwoskies that happen to be in the area - Either let me know here, or email me privately.
Thanks, Tim
But I do plan to be at some of the big ones this year - what is happening that week.
hmm... I dunno - I am ordinarilly lucky to plan mere days ahead, however, I am going with a LARGE group of rather anal anthropology/archaeology buddies, and THEY are making ALL of the travel arrangements. So, Tim does NO work!! Yah-Hoo!
So, aside from the pleasures of card playing, anyone who chooses to get together, especially with this motley group of social scientists, will no doubt be subjected to lengthy ramblings of the corporate and socio-economic power structure...
& all I wanna do is play cards....
sigh...
Methinks that I will not be playing in any tournies, unless there are REALLY cheap ones (as my tourney play, uh, blows), so I cannot help you, Rounder, as far as what's happening. Hopefully something - I'd love to meet you.
Thanks, Tim
Besides playing poker I am an ultra right wing conservative who loves to argue with social scientists, about the filures of liberalism. Could be fun. :-)
:)
Well, despite my seemingly hippie appearance, I, too am surprisingly "conservative," especially when coupled with my leftist pinkocommiebastard mates- Tho,
Now I will contradict myself. I am most liberal, actually, in that I don't really care what other people do or think - It's their life - whether it's views I espouse or despise... Perhaps I am just a Libertarian at heart...
Now I REALLY hope we can get together, as one of my friends will NOT shut up when on a tirade... It'll be fun to see an older man tear her apart... hee hee...
I just want to play cards.... Thanks, Tim
Heh, finally it happened to me too, got an idea stolen... What a breaktrough for my reputation! "Twoplustwosky", that's according to Izmet, my friend... :-)
---
DAMN!! I'll get it right someday!!
BTW - RE: your website. Is it underconstruction, or are the non-linkable areas just topic headings? Thanks, Tim
Under construction, always. I plan to turn those headings into links.
---
does anyone know if any vegas casinos rate poker like they do table games for comp purposes?
From my personal experience only:
Casinos generally view poker players as being their least important customer. We do not rate free rooms, airfare, etc type programs that active craps, slot, or pit games player qualify for. Even though we may spend more total hours glued to the tables.
However, most poker rooms are able to offer you meal comps if you play several hours. Then once you are "known" to the room as being a regular or semi-regular visitor, you can qualify for a reduced room rate at the standard "casino" rate. This is generally half of normal full rack rate.
Many players though have also found comparable room rates or even lower rates through the internet specials and by accessing the casinos web page for specials.
In terms of Vegas, I feel that the Orleans is the best value in terms of room rates available to poker players. They offer $35 rates M-Thursday and $55 on weekends. However, where you stay is generally also influenced by where you want to play. Orleans is good value for low limit players + it offers a bad beat jackpot to chase after.
If you are interested in the higher limit games, then stay at Mirage for $79/109 poker rate or considerably higher at Bellagio.
Hope this helps a bit.
Diane from Green Bay
When is the WSOP special being telecast I seem to remember 1/19 for some reason - or was it the TOC - I must be getting old memory slipping.
Thanks anyway.
WSOP is on Discovery Channel tonight 7pm CST and again at 10pm CST.
Diane
Speaking of table game comps, and others, what is the best game to play if you are trying to earn comps? In particular, is it possible to earn comps at specific games which cause the ev of the game to become greatly positive (say > $10/hr)?
Any information on craps and/or slot comp systems up and running?
- Andrew
My cousin gets flown to AC from Long Island, they pick him up in a limo and give him his meals and a room all he hs to do is play 8 hours of video poker at a 50 cent machine. His basic strategy gives him a 97% return on a machine, full houses 9 straights 5.
Try reading "The Frugal Gambler" by Jean Scott. She claims that she lives for free several months out of the year in Las Vegas and comes home with a profit. She primarily plays positive-expectation video poker machines, but also counts cards in black jack and takes full advantage of promotions.
Also try "Comp City" by Max Rubin. His comp engine is black jack. Mason Malmuth gives out a few ideas as well in his article "Free Bets and Other Topics," which can be found in "Gambling Theory."
Most casinos treat poker players a lot worse than pit game players. They would rather have a bunch of slot playing Zombies than a bunch of poker players.
A slot brings in around $800 a day profit. a lot more per Sq foot than poker tables plus the number of staff required is a fraction in the slot room.
I suspect if push comes to shove the 1st thing eliminated from a casino is gonna be the poker room.
Can anyone give me an internet site where I can order Doyle's book online. Thank you.
I have heard it is out of print. I have seen copies at my local Gamblers World the number there is. 480-968-2590. They take credit cards and will ship for you.
Look on the bottom left corner of this web page and click on Conjelco.
D.
The 1999 WSOP tape is on the Discovery Channel tonight. It's at 9:00 in MST; in other time zones, look it up.
Dick
xx
Actually, that's the Discovery documentary, and it's showing at 8 p.m. EST and again at 11 p.m. EST.
Young asian guy went to vegas with partner,they had bankrolls $ 10,000 each,played PAI GOW and won 3.4 millons. They splited money but Asian guy continued to win up to 22 millons,it take him a year to lose all back. Now he learns to play poker 3-6 hold'em.
it is indeed a lucky story. many gamblers want to lose so they have a purpose and goal. now he is happy. plus he can play a game he may actually have the best of it. thanks for sharing this wonderful story with us.
Post deleted at author's request.
xx
I'm surprised they let online poker players post here at all!! Well, next those online players will want to ride in the front of the bus and drink from the same water fountains as the rest of us real poker players. Where is it going to end? ôżô
boy i was so excited when i clicked on the idea of the millenium. i had such visions of great ideas. it may be a good idea but is this your best idea of the millenium? or are you using yellow journalism.
Rather than relegating us to our own ghetto, I think you non-online players are going to have to get with the program. Predicting the future is tricky, but I suspect that within the next few years, certaily less than five, at any given time more persons will be playing in online games than live casino games.
Reasons include:
1) much lower rakes
2) more convenient
3) can be anywhere, not just close to a casino
4) any efforts to ban it will prove futile if law makers are stupid enough to try
5) improved technology will eliminate or ameliorate its curent problems
6) pros will find that they have much better game selection opportunities
7) good customer service will be the primary way that online casinos can distinguish themselves from their competition
Bill im afraid you are right. online will take over the poker world as far a quantity and quality of games. it will be sad to lose the social aspect of the game. the only hope is for casinos to improve their treatment of players but that i dont see unless its in a place that only offers poker.
Anyone know where I can purchase WSOP vids? any or all years. thanks
Click on the link to your left marked ConJelCo.
I enjoy all of them EXCEPT the 1999 version it is so bad you can't tell what is going on and found my self yelling at the TV "WHAT DID THEY HAVE" unless you are collecting them and want the full set I'd suggest skipping this one and buying the 1999 version from The Discovery channel - they advertised it for 19.00 last night after the telecast of the 1999 WSOP.
vince.
Come on Vinny - you with nothing to say.
WOW a 1st. Sorry I missed you - hey were you playing a NL HE satellite on Sat morning?
There was this guy dressed in black with a bulls hat and I thought it might be you.
Unbelieveable! That were me! I looked and looked for you! I know that I am so beautiful that one would feel intimidated by my gorgeousness, but come on. Ssay hello! I missed the lunch with dianne because it was the same time as the Stud tournament so I din't get to meet some of the other folks here on 2+2. Next time I'll do my darndest to meet folks. I played with Mason but was too intimidated to introduce myself. Plus, I liked being anonymous. If he knew I was at the table I'm sure the fear of playing with his master student would have been to much for him. He would have crumbled.
I ran into 3 Bet Brett. Mason actually walked between us while we were discussing the 2+2 forum. We (me not Brett) were going to pull a wayne's world and drop down on the floor and proclaim "Were not worthy, were not worthy". I don't know if Mason would have appreciated that or not. If it were Sklansky I would definitely have been in the bowing position. Of course I'm sure he gets that all the time. Well next tournament. Vienna!
Vince.
I offered Vince $50 to sneak up behind Mason and whisper the secret word into Mason's ear, but Vince didn't think Mason had a sense of humor.
Personally, I think it would have been worth ten times that much.
Brett
I'd of done it for $1! LOL
OK that really cool looking blond with the big head lights at your satellite table you were seat 8 or 3 and she was 3 or 8 and from Phoenix so were a couple of other guys at the satellite table. I was gonna wait for you to leave the game but got distracted and went in the main room when I got back you were gone. Well next time.
Rounder,
You need a better set of glasses. Those weren't head lights.
Vince.
Vince,
Help me out. I know you are from Boston (I'm a New Englander myself), but I had always gotten the impression you were a Bellagio/Mirage player and lived in Las Vegas. I'm asking because we were thinking of buying you dinner later this year if you lived in Las Vegas.
Regards,
Rick
Gee Rick if you guys are buying I'll fly out for a free dinner. Vegas is only 40 min from Phoenix.
:-)
PS see you is a couple of weeks coming out for the Commerce on the 4th.
Rick,
I lived in Vegas from Jan-July 1999. Family obligations forced me to move to Boston, for a short while I hope. I try to get to Vegas as often as possible. I love it there. I love the poker even though I agree with Badger about the smoking. It really sucks. I love southern Cal also and will look you up on my next trip. I plan on being in vegas during the world series. May see you then. Thanks for the dinner offer. Please bring your student. You have no idea the effect young pretty girls, er.. students, have on the elderly.
Vince.
Their coverage albeit tarty - a 7 month old event - was good, head and shoulders above the poor effort Binions made for the 1999 WSOP. I'd like to see more videos of the Big events. I know the TOC made one but I really am not interested in paying $50 for a video those are rip off prices and I don't like to be ripped of.
Great Show.
It was nice that they simply covered the event without moralizing about the destruction of society or other peripheal issues.
D.
I also saw the show, and was impresses. The show was so good that even my wife (not a poker player) was impressed) She made a statment that I thought was funny. She asked if you had to dress bad to play in the tournament? I thought that was funny.
But It was a nice inside look at some of the top players of the game, talking about hands and discussing about other players. I could not belive that the last 2 players at the table had won super satalites to get their birth in WSOP.
Over all great show.
If you knew how hard it was to win a super-satellite, that might not surprise you. Despite his tournament successes and tournament books, McEvoy sets the record for futility, having never won one. While you might get by with a minor mistake or two in the Big Event, even one fine-line mistake late in a super is almost always fatal. I think Badger alluded to this in a different thread, but fast action tourneys do not give bad players the advantage that is commonly believed -- events like supers simply take a different attitude.
.
It was a good show and would even have been better if they had showed Seidel's Ace high 150,000 call of a stone cold bluff from Goering.
I enjoyed how accurately they portrayed Phil Hellmuth as being a crybaby.
XX
It wastes time looking up so many of your messages just to see "XX", when it could have been easily avoided.
Thank You, Barry
.
xx
.
I enjoyed how Seidel took his painful river loss very maturely. Totally world class.
"He stayed with a jack......!" com-on phil, you were on TV. Chill dude
Did you hear T.J Cloutier say he remembers hands from 5 years ago (even if he played against a player once or twice). I hope he was not too serious about it or if he was I hope he is the only one.
P.S. really enjoyed the show. Wish there would be more shows like this one.
yea, tj tells me about hands i played against him 20 years ago. and he remembers all the stuff and i have no idea what he is talking about.
I thought they did a good job too, especially when they showed me in the gallery on the third day of the tourney. I think they said you can buy the tape of that program for 19.95.
I disagree. Although the show was appealing from a poker players point of view I don't think it captured the excitement of playing the final table of an event like the WSOP. It was nice seeing familiar faces that most of us recognize from our poker playing tournament trips. But it would have been better if the producers would have focused on the excitement of the event. I'm not sure how or if that can be done but it is what the World series and other major tournaments are all about. Someone unfamiliar with the World Series might just not understand what all the fuss was about. It was obvious that not much money was invested in documenting the event. I did think Daniel Negreanu came accross as a bright young individual that could be a good spokesman for Poker. I think that Phil Helmuth did a good job also. TJ was, well, he was there. Noel Furlong did not impress me. He did not appear to appreciate the fact that he was playing for the world championship of poker. Just another day to a wealthy business man. I believe Chris Bigler would have made a good champion from a PR point of view. He showed a lot of enthusiasm and seemed to be the only one of the group that was truly enjoying the experience. Huck seed looked like he was in a boring ring game and was ready for bed. It was disappointing not seeing David or Mason or Ray there.
Vince.
Missed it. I was at the Casino getting my ass kicked for a rack and a half. Anyone know if/when it is on again?
In January 2001 they'll show the 2000 WSOP. Be there or be square!
I enjoyed it but I wish it was longer to allow more time to show exciting hands, like the Seidel call. I was glad to see the hand Huck Seed got knocked out on b/c its received a fair amount of attention but more hands would have been nice.
I have come across this several times in low limit hold'em at the Taj Mahal.
There is a little group of Asians that always seem to be playing in the same games. It does not appear to me that they are playing together, with the possible exception of them being less likely to bet when it is down to just two of them in one pot (which happens infrequently in low limit since there seems to always be someone else in the pot). However, when any one of them wins a pot, they throw the other one big bet (if it's a decent sized pot) or a small bet (if it's a small sized pot). They mutter something about a "contract".
My question is does the Taj Mahal allow players to give chips to other players at the table? I have seen this happen several times and at no time has any dealer or player questioned it. And should this annoy me?
let them have fun. they arent cheating just bending rules that dont hurt anyone really. ive played lots with people throwing bets back. ive even done it myself with players that like it and enjoy the interaction. they like to play together and so what. it all works out best for you in the long run. the only drawback may be it could cause some others not to play.
It is common among certain players at Taj and Trop. It often happens when 2 players are head to head and one wins a pretty big or close pot. It is essentially the winner puts up the ante for the looser. Usually just a friendly gesture. Common among some regulars. I have been "flipped" a bet by the winner on occasions. No harm here
I have been playning in casinos (mostly 5-10 hold'em) for the past 18 months and I have finally turned 21 so I'd like to start playing in tournaments. Simple question: can someone explain the rebuy structure and how it should affect my play. Thanks in advance, Kevin Concannon
Rebuys normally take two forms unlimited for the 1st 3 or 4 rounds and 1 or 2 rebuys or add ons by the end of the 3rd or 4th round.
In unlimited rebuys there is always several nuts playing very loose trying to win with nothing and build a big stack rebuyins as much as it takes - you can score on these guys because it is easy to isolate them and strike with good hands - so the rebuy period is a lot like a 2/4 game. It is a lot different after the rebuy period is over. The game really tightens up as you can no longer buy more chips.
I tend to play pretty tight in the rebuy period and loosen up after when the blinds go up and a big bet means something.
Hope you have success.
Only in the United States would you find people who want to keep a 6 year old Cuban child from his Father, while at the same time allow O.J. Simpson the custody of his own kids.
Go Figure, Tony
xx
That's the best line I've heard regarding 2+2. Not sure if he wants me to tell you who said it, so no attribution.
Brett
x
This is another reminder to send me your photo, if you want to be part of this wondrous collection of faces - found at http://www.annabelles-treasures.com/poker/photos.htm. We are up to nine pictures - still woefully inadequate.
Don't forget, you can snail-mail me a regular photo and I can scan it in. My address is at Annabelle's Treasures Contact Page.
Dick
Post deleted at author's request.
I can photograph rick off my Caro tape with my digital camera. OK Rick.
Student & Lady Gambler we need a gal on the pic page come on in the water is fine.
I keep trying to upload my picture, but I can't get it past the ugly filter on the firewall.
Seriously, I suppose I can find a photo and scan it. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Post deleted at author's request.
..Sklansky and Zee's combined lifetime poker earnings (or at least earnings at ~$40-80 HE), according to DS's post on the HE board.
Lemme see, I get: (10`100)`(1/15)=4,641,588.83=w
"Sixty years combined experience";[w/(60*2080)=$37.19]
Assuming that DS & RZ contributed roughly 50/50 to 'w', I've got David grinding $40-80 for ~21.5 hours to pay Badger off on that TOP reading bet. $18.60 per hour at 40-80??!! Hell, put me down for the $6-12 games at the Commerce...
.
uh...they share the hours too. so $40/hour. but i still think david was just speaking figuratively. also, i don't think he actually owns a math hat or a i-win-more-money-than-everyone-combined hat. but, if he did, that would be damn cool.
scott
..I kinda messed up the ol' hourly rate there. However, you shoulda seen some of the numbers I was coming up with when first trying to calculate 1/15 root of a googol. Initially, I got 1.46....
here's an easy way to get an approximation in your head.
the 15th root of a googol is the same as 10 to the 6 and 2 thirds. 10^6 is just a million. 2 cubed is 8, so the cube root of 10 is a little more than 2. so 10^(2/3) is a little less than 10/2. so you get a little less than 5 million. i would have guessed 4.7 or so, but a few hundred thousand doesn't really matter at this scale.
scott
kinda shows you got to improve and play higher stakes. see poker pros make less than a plumber and even have to wear a belt to keep their pants above the crack.
ray,
Some don't bother with the belt. Years ago I saw the final event of the Diamond Jim Brady Tournament where there was one "world class" (or should I say world classless) player spend the entire final table displaying about five inches!! of what I will delicately refer to "the less attractive form of cleavage". The thirty or so spectators in the bleachers slowly emptied out as it was clearly making them sick. And some hope for corporate sponsorship of tournaments. Yeah.
Rick
I don't think David plays 40 hours a week, and I would bet that Ray doesn't either.
If you try 20 hours a week I think you'll get better numbers.
If you just look at it from a per year basis, you get them making about 75K per year. Not bad.
- Andrew
Per year is definitely a better way to look at it. Plus, 40-80 HE probably isn't the only game they play, either.
.
There will be a small buy-in ($50.00) $1-2 blind NL Hold'em ring game at the Commerce tonight at 7:00.
So far, the 1, 2, 3, 4 and 9 seats are locked up. I am willing to play head's up, three way, four handed etc. This game is usually a lot of fun and sometimes degenerates into a serious money game. I've seen as much as $50,000 on the table when it was a $100 buy-in game. I hope you can make it
John wish I could - I'll be there in early Feb. Hope to get a Mike Paulle type report but you can skip the notables present section :-)
Mike
I'd like to play w/you tonight but can't make it. I will look for future postings about any games you get together.
I think it would be great to meet some of the folks who post here.
MDJ from So. CA.
with all the rocks there at the commerce club id go to the bike for the easy pickings.
Speaking Of Cracks,
What are some of the best one liners you have heard at the tables when someone either said something or got beat in a hand???
paul
"I didn't wanna win that pot anyways; all that stackin'..." -Johnny Moss-
I saw a hand a few months ago where one player flopped a full house, the other was unaware (bad player, very fatigued) and stayed in to the river with bottom pair, I think it was 3's or something. So the hands were something like:
Winner: AK Board: AKK53 Loser: 34
After the showdown, another player says to the loser, "Aw man! That's some bad beat!! Do they have a jackpot for that?". The loser didn't even realize how badly he was being ragged on.
s'est la vie!
I was sitting next to a downshifter. Playing 1-5 7CS he started telling me he usually plays 5-10. He is powering people out and catching on the end in the beginning so he's ahead. He is peaking and a hand comes up he has a K up on 3rd street and I had AA/7 he raises and I reraise. It turns out he wins the hand he catches two pair but he was so certain I had trips that he checked all the way until I stopped betting on 6th street when he catches another pair on the board. He bets the river and I drop I didn't catch. He goes through this whole speal about how I played it wrong so on and so forth. I don't say nothing. A couple hours later his 7th card philosophy goes south and he loses his $200 dollars and gets up to leave. I say to him "Thanks for the lesson, this game was too easy for you, you must be going to play 5-10 now!!!" Silence and he left.
Paul
I LOVE THAT!
I see that all the time! Players are playing like s&%t, and then have the stones to say 'I'm just waiting for a seat at the 10/20 tables!'. When I hear that, I feel like a cartoon character with a question mark in each eyeball.
YAWAWAPF!
Vince.
I was playing in a hand where the flop was 3h 6s Qd. The turn comes 7c. The bet gets around to this one guy who says 'I raise. . .I'm on the flush draw'.
Don't tell me...he scared some hands out with that comment.
shooter
My favorite line at a poker table happened at a 5-10 game at the Taj. A gregarious guy was just coming in from a break and told the dealer to deal him in as he was getting settled. I don't know how but he fell off his chair. He got up settled down again and won the hand with QQ. As the next hand was being dealt I asked him, if you fall out of your chair for QQ what do you do with rockets. He said, "I stand up and shout I've got rockets." He looked at his cards and stood up and said, "I've got rockets!"
And he did.
A friend of mine was playing 1-5 stud with a real loudmouth. So my friend's real tight, and the other guy kept saying "Man, you're so obvious, you never come in unless you've got a monster." Well, a couple of hands later, my friend and this guy were in the same pot togther heads up from 3rd street. My friend keeps hammering all the way to the river, when the other guy drops, saying "See, if you varied your play a little, I'd call you, but I know you've got a winner." My friend pauses for a bit before shoving his cards to the dealer, then flips over a king high, and says "So I played THIS wrong?" The other guy is irate, goes on tilt, and runs through $200 in an hour.
Bill
i was playing $50 limit in oregon in the 1970's. i was dealing three card lowball with three draws. on the second betting round both stand pat and first guy bets and 2nd guy calls. ist guy says i got a seven low. the 2nd guy says that beats my eight. i say, hey guys there is another draw left. first guy says im still pat and 2nd guy says the same. first guy bets 50 and 2nd guy calls. first guy says i still got the seven low and 2nd guy say that still beats my eight. true story with two very bad players.
that can't be true!!! were they drunk? functionally retarded? are you sure you weren't dreaming?
scott
one of many absolutely true stories.
I caught so many gut shot straights that the other players at the table started calling me willie mays.
Said with obvious sarcasm after a bad beat, "how much do you have to win to get even?"
Yesterday, the Minnesota legislature approved the card club at the track. It will open on April 10th. They are considering several games, but will narrow it down to 6. Limits will be maxed at $15-30.
Also, "Backline betting" (?) will be allowed on 2 tables. What is this exactly? They said it will be allowed on some "California Games".
80 Days to go!
Backline betting happens in a game like blackjack when all the available seats at the table are full.
I could stand behind a cooperative player and place my bet next to his and benefit from whatever decision they made with their hand. Original seated player makes all the decisions and I just ride along with him with my bet.
Gives you the feeling of playing when all spots are taken.
Diane from Green Bay
i am planning a trip to puerto rico in april. anyone know the best places to play poker - holdem. i have searched on the internet and only came up with two places - and they do not answer the phone. any other advise/help/interesting things about the area is appriciated/vano
Tonight we kicked off the first Friday Mason Malmuth Invitational Big Bet Outing at the Commerce Club. Rick, student, Scott Horton and I had a nice seafood buffet before starting the game at 6:45. We had expected a 7:00 start, but decided we's crank her up early.
Within five minutes of starting, we were playing eight handed, had a full game within 15 minutes and managed to play with a pretty full table until Rick and student had to leave just before 12:30. We were joined by three people who were former regulars at the Commerce NL ring games of 1996. There was a lot of laughing, a little drinking, some astute playing and some less than astute playing as well. Rick had pocket aces four times at least, flopped a set of eights against me and had many other big pocket pairs which stood up except for one pocket queens that lost to Scott Horton's pocket kings.
Student showed good attitude and aptitude for big bet poker and proved early on that she wasn't going to be intimidated or pushed around in the game. I'm not sure who fared better in the win loss column, but I am sure that student had a very good time and liked the format a lot. If the cards hadn't favored Rick so one sidedly, I know which way the pendulum would have swung. Scott Horton was the only player at the table who didn't have to reach into his pocket and pull out more money. I started out pretty well, but played somewhat faster and looser than Mason might approve, losing a little bit overall. The entertainment value was certainly worth the cost to me.
Next week, we will reconvene at the Bicycle for some NL Mexican Stud action. You are all cordially invited.
John sounds like a nice time hope none of our friends got stuck too bad.
I made my reservations yesterday I get in LAX on 2/4 at 4:15 I'm getting a rental car and should be at Commerce club by 5 hope to play in a satellite and the $300 buy in at 6:30 - I am also looking forward to the Sunday NL HE tourney at 2:30. Maybe we can get up a NL ring game Late Friday - I hope real late :-)
The way I have been going in tournaments lately maybe I should just stay home. Have played in 10 so far this year. 1 Win - 7 under 20th (last 2 tables) 4 11ths or 12ths close but no cigar. Satellites played 7 at the COP - 3 early exits 2 with QQ and one KK - 4 got to heads up - 1 win and 3 loses ahead on every last hand and got out drawn.
Hey do the they even out - seems like everytime I go allin with QQ some guy flops 2 pair.
Sorry to ramble - need a shrink these days - no one understands ME.
Cheers, Mike
Mike,
I'll see you when you get here. I'm sure we can get another small ring game going sometime while you are here. On my way out the door to play some tennis. Catch you later.
its good to see you suckers getting together for a friendly game. too bad i wasnt there to take ya all off. i guess im glad as i might have had to been behind you in the buffet line. rick got lots of aces because i had 50% of him and my friends were dealing. thanks for the action. ill send my mexican friends in to play with you at the bike as i need to get some new impluse couplings for my magnetos on you. ill be heading down cal. way soon for some sunshine and may come in a few joints incognito to bust a few.
Ray -- I hope you can pull off the incognito thing, but I don't like your chances. When I first spotted you in Oceanside last year I recognized you from *behind*. It was the shape of your hair or something.
By incognito, I presume you mean you won't be carrying that sandwich board sign that Mason usually insists you wear when walking through a card room. I happen to believe it is a very tasteful ad for 2+2 books, but it does make it difficult for people to not recognize you and David.
I almost went to the Bike this evening to take on your Mexican Posse, but my car steered itself to the Normandie instead. I had to get back my losses from last nite's NL action. It took me the better part of an hour, but I managed to beat the 15-30 lowball for 10 big bets and still get home for supper.
If David would pay Badger that $400 he promised for him reading the Theory of Poker book, (and claiming not to have learned anything) maybe Badger would have come to the Mason Malmuth Invitational Big Bet Extravaganza and rescued me from all those "rocks". I have it on good authority that Badger spent 4 years in high school and didn't learn anything, so how hard would it be to not learn from one little book?
If you had been there Ray, it would have really livened up the game. We would have lowered the buy-in for you if that would have made the difference. Just ask. We all know that while DS kept his half of that fifteenth root of a googal you guys won, you blew off most of yours backing the less gifted players. Maybe you and Mason get put in together and you do the playing while he sits behind you and watches?
Big John,
Great time. Great game. Great stories. Collectiion sucks. I got lucky. Never had so many big pairs that stood up. Student doubled up on me then went on to triple up with three kings and almost get even. Highlight of the night. Student bets $130 to steal $3 in blinds and shows a 55. She said she was sick of me getting all the big pocket pairs.
Regards,
Rick
A good time was had by almost all. Thanks for putting this one together John.
My favorite moment was at the conclusion of the session when John takes a final jab at his old buddy Steve and sez "OK Steve it's time to compare...How much money do you have left? I've still got $1200, can you still buy gas?"
His name was Scott. My favorite moment was when Student shoved it all in when there was $3.00 in the pot. I was watching Rick's face at the time.
Second on my list is when Frank and Scott Y. bet and called $100 each with the straight draws and both checked the river for a showdown of 7-6 vs. 2-3. It absolutely shocked me that Scott didn't bet his last $120.00 into that $300 pot. I guess he thought 2-3 might win it?
This Friday nite we'll be at the Bike playing NL Mexican Stud. I hope that some 2+2'ers can make it down and get a nice little game going. So far it looks like Rick, Student and I will be there. The game is played maximum 7 handed, so it shouldn't be hard to have our own game. The rake is $3.00 per hand and the ante is only $1.00. The buy-in will be $100.00. Just a friendly big bet game to liven up your weekend.
We all use coin flips as an example of something that has a fifty fifty chance of happening, but is this true? Years ago someone told me, I think it was my ninth grade biology teacher, that an experiment using mechanical flippers found that heads actually comes up about fifty-one percent of the time. Does anyone know anything about this?
it would be likely depending on the coin as the heavier side should end up down.
Try balancing a coin on its edge and then banging the table. It doesn't fall 50-50 each side.
Wouldn't it take several hundred thousand attempts to really confirm this? I'm a little too busy to see if you're right...
shooter
I read somewhere that the head side actually weighs a little more than the tail side.
It's true that the coin is not completely unbiased, but the effect is nowhere as great as 51/49. It'd be more like 50.005 - 49.995, and it would be a different value for every denomination of coin, and for the amount of wear on an individual coin. Not exploitable.
As long as we're being trivial about it, I would surmise it would also depend on the material onto which the coin was flipped. If it was caught in hand the determinig factor would more likely be the rotation of the coin and the timing of the catch. (This assumes that the rotation has not been so impeded by resistance as to slow to the point that the coin stops rotating and gravity acts on the heavier side.) Same if it landed on something like a bed where it would not rebound. However, if it was allowed to drop to a hard floor or something like a drum then I believe the difference in weight between the obverse and converse sides of the coin would come into play.
On a hard floor there might also be a difference due to surface texture on one side vs another. If one face has a picture that is relatively smooth and uniform and the other has some pointy bits, then they will rebound differently.
Then there are the small number of cases where the coin will come to rest standing on its edge.
But there is something I'd worry about if someone offered me a coin-flipping game - I'd worry that the guy was able to control the flip, or to substitute a loaded coin, or use sleight-of-hand to place the coin the way he wanted when he picked it up, etc. If the game involves catching the coin and slapping it onto the back of the hand like many people do, there's ample opportunity for a good coin manipulator to make the game come out the way he wants.
When you brought up the possibility of the coin landing on its edge I laughed out loud and knew we had definitely reached the bottom of the barrel on this one.
No, wait... You haven't heard me expound on the possibility of a freakish quantum tunneling effect causing the coin to vanish.
I was going to continue, but in a rare statistical event all of the air molecules in the room decided to go the same direction at once and I passed out from the pressure drop.
nt
Do you know any stories of an angry player who either beats up a dealer at the tables, or maybe waits for him to get off duty out in the parking lot?
It's just that this loose cannon at my table last night(who was killing the table at one point) swore he was going to get this one dealer who kept giving him good hands that kept getting drawn out on(the floor man had to be called over to try and calm him down). He had lost almost all the money he had won in the course of just ONE dealer! Anyway, it made me wonder if any of these lunatics ever follow through with their threats.
-dsm
I was followed out to the parking lot one night after skinning this hot head and his pal. I circled back and got 3 rolls of quarters and put them in my sock - then thought better of it - and got this security guard to go with me - they saw us and ran away.
I have never heard of a dealer getting beat up. Johnny Hale told me a story about a really well known bad tempered player who put his cigar out on a dealers arm in California.
i think if we allowed players to beat up the dealers the dealers would be less likely to deal us a losing hand dont you think. actually there have been more dealers beating up the players. years ago at the dunes casino puggy got in a fight with a dealer, an asian lady and then her husband got involved,next she threw handfulls of his 100 dollar chips out in the pit area. then she was beating him on the head with her high heal shoe while he was wrestling with her husband. i got this one second hand from someone who was there so it may be a bit off. one day ill write a book with the great stories of the game.
I'll be the first one to buy.
The guy a alluded to in my post was Puggy. Guess he is a real piece of work.
I'd cater "Exclusively" to poker dealers. Particularly those at Hollywood Park, 3rd shift!
Bone chilling implied odds and sadistically awesome pot stealing opportunities await you at Sam's Town (Vegas) tonight! Their cardroom is spreading a NO LIMIT GAME at 6 p.m. saturday Jan.22, 2000. It will have a 1-2 blind. $50 minimum buy-in. And a maximum rake of $2. They are currently taking phone reservations at 702-454-8092 or 702-456-7777. For those at Harrah's or know someone who is at Harrah's, there is a free shuttle that runs from Harrah's to Sam's Town. It runs every hour. Call for details.
I love no limit. I'll definitely be there tonight. See ya...
I play no limit with my girlfriends back home in Los Angeles. Deal me in...and my friends too.
Gee I wonder where Sam's Town got the idea of spreading a $1 and $2 blind no limit hold'em. BTW anyone that wants to play no limit the Stratosphere spreads no limit hold'em on Sundays. The first live games gets started at 6:30 with a second game around ten.
Best of Luck,
Randy Refeld
Are Debra and Louisa Kelly gonna be there?
Well if you look at the posting times I would lay odds that Kelly Debra and Dude are all the same person; probably someone with a vested interest in people going to Sam's Town.
Gonna be away for a long time I wish everyone success and hope we meet up some day.
I may be lurking so don't say bad things about me - I am sicillian you know.
Bye for now.
I'll miss you, Mike. I have your e-mail so if I'm ever going to be in AZ I'll be sure to let you know.
Busted straights and flushes to your opps,
SammyB
If you are in N. Cal. drop me an email. We can have lunch and argue all at once instead of in a million little posts.
Good Luck !
D.
Post deleted at author's request.
Rounder,
Will you be in Vienna in March.
Vince
Vince,
I'll be in Birmingham England for the UK HE Championships. the 1st week in April.
Hope you can make it.
how long
post reports on your progress
you can always find a comp. and access
give us a report on the u.k.
good luck you will need it.
Take care, man... Wherever you are going, draw to a gutshot at least once for Izmet's sake...
See ya!
---
m
Ray Zee you so fine
you weally, weally blow my mine
Ray Zee...Ray Zee
I see Ray Zee in big side game counting his money. Dan Carrington sit downe next to him. They wisper back and froth. Ray Zee laugh out loud and then wisper sum more. Then he give Dan Carrington big wadd of money. Dan Carrington laugh out loud. Dan Carrington give money back and then they both laugh out loud. Must been some good joke. Ha Ha. Ray Zee then cash out and they both walkk very fast to exit. I think they going to nudie bar. That why they need so much cash.
In the previous hand that John posted:
1) John knew his opponent did not have a J.
2) Opponent new that John knew that he did not have a Jack. Since opponent knew that John knew this, opponent would find representing trips a reasonable play.
3) John knew that opponent knew that he, John, knew that opponent did not have a Jack. Since John knew all of this he knew it was reasonable for his opponent to represent having trips but not having them.
I honestly believe that at some level John was thinking this way. Whether it is right to check and call or bet and call a raise is open to debate for sure. In light of this is at all possible that John actually did induce a bluff raise?
Sorry about that I posted this on the Texas Hold'em Forum so Chuck can delete this thread if he wants to.
I want to purchase the Discovery tape of the 1999 wsop show. (I am gonna use the Binions tape as blank it sux) Can eigther of you tell me how to get a copy of it.
check discovery web site. it is available for 19.99. What, don't you have a vcr connected to your tv?
Rounder- Go to Discovery web page. Show was aired twice on January 19th.
Sorry, I didn't tape it or I would offer to send you a copy. If for some reason, you can't get it through Discovery, let me know and I can try to track down a copy for you from someone on rgp.
Good Luck. Sorry I missed you at Carnivale.
Diane from Green Bay
I surfed the Discovery web page and it wasn't there.
Is it going to be re-broadcast.
Saw Sklansky last night at Bellagio, appearantly giving a guided tour of the poker room to an attractive young lady. I assume she was his niece.
Kinda warms your heart to know the old guy still cherishes family values.
Brett
Brett,
You really should have introduced yourself to David's father. I'm sure it wasn't David. I'll lay 2 to 1 that guided tours are not a thing David does even for family unless of course he gets 200/hour.
Vince.
I have a brief 4-day junket set for this week to Laughlin and Vegas. It's a working vacation, so I will actually be making some sales calls, but I should have time to stumble into a couple of casinos in LV on Wednesday and/or Thursday the 26th and 27th. If there are any 2+2 posters who will be in town, please respond to this post, and maybe we can hook up for a soda while I'm in town. Make it quick, though; I have to leave for the airport about 1:00 p.m. Monday afternoon.
I am always happy to meet up with two plus two posters; if you want to look me up when you get here I am listed in the phone book
Randy Refeld
I have a business trip to Columbus Ohio scheduled and decided to tie in a weekend trip down to see my Horseshoe friends in Tunica.
If anyone is going to be down there at that time, let me know and we can get together for a meal/chat.
I will also be back down there with several friends 2/24-2/27 to play some satellites for their big March/April tournament and to hook up with the SARGE group from rgp.
Diane from Green Bay
Greetings: Does anyone have any suggestions on where to stay for my Vegas trip on Memorial day weekend? We are looking for reasonably priced (say, under $100/night) and centrally located (i.e. walking distance to good places to play, and take in sights, etc).
Any and all suggestions appreciated.
Thanks, Tim
Tim,
If you plan on playing poker try Bellagios. Call thier poker room and ask for availability and pricing. I believe the poker rate is between 99-129. You can't beat the hotel. The Flamingo Hilton accross the street might be a better choice dollar wise. Call for a poker rate.
Vince.
If you don't mind spending a little more, The Venetian has very nice rooms. They are all 700 sq ft suites. It is the largest hotel in the world, has lots of great restaraunts, and a brand new poker room.
For a little less, The Rio offers mini-suites that are nice, but you'll be off the strip.
Brett
Brett
v
I suggest the Flamingo Hilton. It is center strip so you can walk anywhere. Poker at F.H. is one or two tables of 1-4-8 holdem and one or two tables of 1-5 7CS. Friendly poker room personel and generally a good game. They will give you a rate for 4-6 hours of poker play. On week days it is around 50-60 and weekends probably about 100 per night. I am not sure about Memorial Day Weekend. The Flamingo is a nice hotel with good service and nice rooms, A great pool area and a so-so buffet. You can play poker there, or walk to the Mirage (2 Blocks) Harrahs (1 Block) Bellagio (1 Block). Or catch the tram behind Balleys for a trip to the MGM. That puts you within walking distance of poker at the Luxor and Mandalay bay. If you stay and the Flamingo Hilton...you will get on their mailing list for some really good deals. I get rooms there during the week for freee or for 15 bucks during the off peak through the mailings. I hope this was helpful.
LAMentary
The number I got is 888-404-5869 I just ordered it - 4-6 weeks to deliver. The show will be rebroadcast on May 5th 8 & 11pm (EST) and may 7th 4pm (EST).
Am I the only person who taped it when it aired??
Shooter,
Just out of curiosity what are some of the things they aired on the show. Is it worth going after?
Well, I didn't see the 'official' tape, which everyone said was horrible. The Discovery show seemed pretty good to me. It tried to give a good dose of laymen's fodder as well as real poker skill. Of course, nothing on channels like Discovery or TLC can go too deep for fear of losing the general interest viewer (one of the sad truths of a television oriented society, but I digress). Anyway, the first 15 minutes were the weakest, just showing off the glitz and the glamor of the tournament (so glitzy, in fact, that the million dollar 1st prize is brought to the final table in a CARDBOARD BOX), with various people waxing poetic about being champ. Then they get into the meat, going day by day tracking a few standout people (Huck Seed, Phil Helmuth, Anne Duke, Scotty N.). For the poker player, the best part of the show is the final 15 minutes, when they actually show some of the final table hands.
All in all, I would recommend it, but don't go on a cross-country trek to seek it out. I'd say it'd be worth the 19 bucks the Discovery Channel wants for it, if it was longer than 44 minutes total time (one hour minus commercial breaks).
hope this helps, shooter
When I called 888-404-5869 I got something else (the message center for Beaver Creek ski resort).
1-301-587-1305
it's 888-404-5969
Had the flu when I posted and am amazed I got 9 of the 10 #'s right.
Sorry,
I have played hold-em for about two hundred hours. I have read every book in print and am doing well. However, I would like to move to a new level of play and need help finding an experienced poker instructor. I can travel anywhere at about anytime. Any replies would be helpful.
thanks
tele
pay David whatever he charges and it will pay off in extra earnings far more than you imagine.
see Bob Ciaffone in michigan.
try John Feeney in san diego and see if he will go for it.
above all dont pay for lessons from someone who cant beat the games you are going to play in.
budget a few thousand dollars. you get what you pay for.
12 steps: RandyE co-author
(1) Admit you have an addiction to posting.
(2) Sell your computer(and not to your wife or kids).
(3) GET A JOB!
(4) Stop wearing wo/men's clothing [right group]
(5) Intense Drug Therapy (sleeping pills diphenhydramine).
(6) Throw out chips from casino's found in pockets at home
(7) Take down picture of "DOGS PLAYING CARDS"
(8) Change your surname Ex:Raise, AK, Hearts, AA, etc.
(9) Stop denying that you have a problem.
(10) Thirty Days is not 3T's.
(11) Phrases. Ex: Your aces honey!!! King me Queen!!
(12) Magnets on refrigerator of all the Casino's you've been too throw out.
OPA-Maybe the answer you've been looking for and were afraid to ask about. You don't have to be anymore. OPA stands behind their model whether you prefer male or female just ask and the model will perform your wishes. Plz sign below if interested.
1) Paul Feeney
PBWY
So I'm playing 8/16 at the Bellagio on Sunday and a 15/30 player sits down in my game while he's waiting for a Seat. This guy looks like he just got out of Prison. He dressed in old Sweats and has a "I luv Jesus" beanie on his head. He's unshaven, but at least he doesn't stink!
The other local knows him by name. The Bum plays a little and leaves for the 15/30 game. I ask the Local why the guy dresses like a Bum, and he gets pissed at me! He says that most local poker players are gambling degenerates, and I should feel sorry for them. I just shake my head and say that they could at least dress respectable.
Many tourists won't play when the games are full with Bums like these. My best play is to avoid those games, but it still urks me that a respectible joints like the Bellagio and Mirage lets Bums play in their Poker rooms.
CV
Some casinos have been known to close their poker rooms because of all the bums.
CV,
I agree with that the smell and smoke combination are deadly for me. I can no longer concentrate on my cards due to fumes coming from my left or right. I just leave or go to another table. I'm not much on moving so alot of times I just leave. I drive two hours each way and I've played for only two hours because of these conditions. The last time I played I took a break and I came back and there was a older man smoking one after another he had moved from seat 8 to seat 4 and I was in seat 3 so rather than move or whatever I just left after 1hr and 40 mins of playing. The bums seem to multiplying and dividing because when I first started playing I didn't notice them as much. Maybe get sniff dogs at the door!!! Only kidding.
paul
I never realized that poker was so class consciouss.The guy moving to the 15-30 obviously had a buy-in. Isn't Paul feeney a licensed therapist (or is that john)? Maybe poker, like war, doesn't promote positive mental health.
"Maybe poker, like war, doesn't promote positive mental health."
Soldiers fight for their country and all are soldiers of war. Psych major get a grip to compare these two is nonsense. To be fighting on the lines without a bar of soap or water for weeks isn't like the guy next to you in a poker game who choses not to shower or change into clean clothes. If the guy can afford a 15-30 buy in he can afford to have clean clothes and Right Guard. My positive mental health is put to the test when one of these players sit next to me.
EOC
no offense meant ..just a comment....The Art of War is good reading for poker players....You assume I ws talking about soldiers too..maybe not..maybe..civilians..nevertheless...the point I was making is that not all poker players are all there upstairs...
Hey, we're human too!!
If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you prick us do we not bleed? If you put a bad beat on us do we not whine, "He called my raise with QJ!!!"
"He called my raise with QJ!!!"
Is this Phil Helmuth still complaining about his loss to QJ in the WSOP?
vince.
i suspect that our posting "bum" is taking poetic license with ideas far beyond his league. Perhaps he should actually read more than "selections" of the author.
a.
the crux of the matter was not if the jew bled, but the christian who couldn't pay his debts. that's how that guy's girlfriend got him off and won him half of the jew's stuff. you know it's shakespeare when people are crossdressing.
scott
but after all, we are all held in a single honour, the brave with the weaklings.
a.
yeah, but if he would have just cut off his foot, he'd have been ok. otherwise, several hours or several years of waiting is all the same once you lost the illusion of being immortal.
hey! i figured out why vladimir says that 2 of the evangelists don't mention thieves when in fact only one doesn't. it's a joke on the audience. read the passage. it's damn funny. beckett makes an intentional mistake, no one in the audience knows, then estragon proclaims "people are bloody ignorant apes." damn, beckett is so cool.
scott
Hey fellas, welcome back. Had a nice ride in the snow? Snow sucks!!
Actually Alex, truth be known I happened to get a 97 in Cliff's Notes in high school. And, yes Vince, I do a poor imitation of Poker Phil whining to his girlfriend.
it was a good post, I guess I just ascribed it to scott because it reminded me of some of his favorite stuff.
an interesting thing that I heard about this issue. The judge that released Rubin Carter later reached national publicity when he ruled (later to be overturned) that people had a right to be in public and commercial places "smelly". The case was whether a library could evict a smelly dude.
a.
Yes, I heard about that case. I believe that's where we got the term "Nose Pollution" from. :-)
In my playing time at the Trop and Taj in AC, I've found these types to be VERY poor players for the most part. There's one guy who frequents the Trop, and he makes Red Skelton look like a black tie event. This guy is a chain smoking, non-bathing mess. He wears the same shirt and pants every time I see him (and it's usually got a nice ketchup stain near the top button), the shirt looks like it started its life white, but now it's a strange greyish-brown. He wears a knit winter cap over a head of greasy hair. . .you get the idea. Anyway, every time he sits down, although pretty skeeved, I welcome it. He's a walking bank machine. He plays horrible cards, he's an open book as far as tells, and I've taken quite a bit of his money. When his rack is empty, he goes away for a few minutes to make it look like he's going to the ATM. Truth is, he's just reaching into his sock or something. Then he comes back and loses some more. As long as I don't have to sit next to him, I welcome him at the table. I'm not playing to socialize. . .I'm playing to win money, and his is a good as Donald Trump's (bad example, he's kinda slimy too, but in a different way). In fact it's better, because it's easily taken.
shooter
Hey Shooter, I know the guy. He always says "good hand" when he looses. He is a nice guy, but he ain't staying in my place. He looks worse than he smells. Actually there are worse. How about the foreign dude with the gray sport coat and dirty beard who chain smokes and has enough crumbs in his beard for tomorrow's lunch. There is one guy named Ed who farts and smokes at the table. Look out after he finishes one of those greasy cheese staeks. The bomb is near.
I gotta keep my eyes out for these guys!! I'm not familiar with this Ed guy. I play at the low limit tables, where everyone orders hot dogs rather than anything else on the menu. You know why of course. . .hot dogs are a buck, as opposed to 5 dollars for anything else they offer. Cheap-o bastards (myself included).
How do you eat a cheesesteak and not grease up the cards??
On the other hand, in the UK, you have to dress up to be allowed in - shirts with collars, shiny shoes, "I'm sorry sir, you'll have to wear this jacket which is three sizes too small for you with that shirt", "Next time if you wear those trousers sir I'm afraid you won't be allowed in". It drives me nuts ! I wish I could roll up in a T-shirt, jogging bottoms and trainers and PLAY SOME POKER, it'd be so much more comfortable. Hey, they'd be clean :-)
Oh for a happy medium.
Andy.
Can anybody shed a little light on these Online casinos?
1. Are they Safe to play on?
2. How is the competition?
Any Opinions welcome.
Thanks Walleye
"Any Opinions welcome."
Save your real $$ for the real thing face to face.
Best of it !!
MJ
If you would like to get a myriad of opinions go to deja.com and do a power search on rgp for online poker. You'll read many opinions, but I suggest you try it and see for yourself. At paradise poker, there's a link to your left under advertisers, you can play for fun and get a feel for the interface.
I've never played on-line poker for actual dough and probably never will. It's just too easy for two or more people to be in phone contact and get an unfair advantage over the other player(s) by A) Revealing their cards to each other and B) raising a third player out by cooperating. Even a bad card player or a moron could get an edge over you with this tactic, IMO.
Caveat Emptor.
Never say never!
At the low limits I've been playing, A may be happening, but I've never seen B. Heavy raising is a rarity.
Thought you guys may be interested in this site: http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/ Not really knowing much at all about game theory, I've been exploring the net to learn, so I do not really know if this site has value to you, but I'd be interested to see your thoughts. Thanks, Tim
tomorrow if i dont get snowed in, im taking a trip down california way. maybe ill see a few of you in the cardrooms i hit. no posting for awhile i guess. i put this on the exchange forum to make sure i wont incur the wrath of the wrong forum man.
Good Luck but I'm still going to zing you. Nice touch accusing the "Wrong Forum Man" when we all know it's you.
TOF
Ok Ray, Hope you get lots of quads and take some of that Californi funny money back to civilization.
ps, Hi Paul
Have a good trip, Ray. Maybe you'll spot me somewhere. I'm almost always at Oceans-11 on Thurs for their 40-80 (note that their PL game is spotty at best right now), maybe in L.A. (Commerce or Bike) on a Mon or Fri, otherwise unpredictable right now. Don't bother with a lot of snow gear. It seems to be letting up.
Don't forget to call...
...on the river.
-Abdul
To you literary types, what in the heck was that supposed to represent? And then the cops stolen gun falling out of the sky, landing right in front of him (among all the frogs)?
i haven't seen the movie yet but samuel beckett once said "if i knew who godot was i'd have put him in the play!"
scott
Two answers:
One, I believe the raining frogs part is based on a true event (well, true in the "Ripley's Believe it or Not" sense). There was also a plague of frogs in the bible if you believe that sort of thing.
Two - I think, literarily speaking, the frog rain was the closure to the opening sequence where the guy who jumped off the building was accidentally shot by his own parents and the scuba diver was scooped up by the firefighting plane. I think the director is making the point that ALL poker players know: Despite the long odds of an outlandish event happening, the world is big enough and time is long enough that if something is physically POSSIBLE, it is eventually PROBABLE. (Just yesterday at a fairly new home poker game I was invited to I had 4 aces up against 3 other four-of-a-kinds. With no wild cards. I'm just glad I wasn't dealing that one because I'D suspect me of cheating)
Interesting question and very applicable to this group, IMO.
Sorry goog, but you're wrong on this one:
"Despite the long odds of an outlandish event happening, the world is big enough and time is long enough that if something is physically POSSIBLE, it is eventually PROBABLE."
Time is not long enough. Don't you beleive it sir, don't you beleive it. Whatever you like, but not that.
don't you like the joke on the audience?
scott
i think that goog was on the right track, but went wrong towards the end. The point is not that the sum of improbably events become probable.
Rather it is that examination of a world unlike our own (a world where frog's fall from the skies) and examination of how people react to it elucidates something very pure and close to the human condition.
That's the reason people read Kafka despite that relative lack of tricky trials, hunger artists, and giant insects. Also, partly why people read Marquez.
The point is not that frog's fell. The point was not that gregor was turned into an insect. The point is these situations make us feel something, however vague, about the alienation, authenticity, and human interaction. This feeling is part of what led the existentialist literature break-off movement.
a.
NL Lowball tournament is now being spread at the Bike the first Thursday of every month at noon.
as far as meaningless conversation goes, ( sometimes handy in a poker game), what do you think about the a.m. / p.m. issue?
are noon and midnight able to identified as 12 am and 12 pm??
brad
Noon is 12 PM Midnight is 12 AM
Just move one minute in the future for both of them to see the proof.
And the twenty-first century begins January 1st of NEXT year. Fact, not opinion.
Next question?
And anal-retentive is spelled with a hyphen.
Noon is 12 AM Midnight is 12 PM
Just move one minute in the past for both of them to see the proof.
And the twenty-first century begins January 1st of NEXT year. Fact, not opinion.
Next question?
The Coolest Kids In the World.
They're cool until the very last sentence ...
Andy.
yeah, i don't like fundamentalists either.
scott
james H.,
Good link but I better keep quite since by definition anything I would say is not cool :-) .
Regards,
Rick
P.S. I tried to answer this in more detail last night but I was in a haze and I think I sent off my response to my parents by accident (I had multiple windows open at once). I'll find out soon enough.
writes about personality traits? It's such a copout to devote an entire article to topics such as courage, discipline, patience, or whatever. The only way I could feel anymore gypped after reading one of these gems, is if I'd had to pay for the magazine.
-Ron
not much pateince in this post!
I certainly would never read another one of Badger's columns unless I wanted to improve my game. Perhaps you believe that self-control isn't the *most* necessary quality for a poker player to possess? Forget poker player, I think self-control is right up close to the top of the list for human beings to possess.
Please name me one winning poker player that leads a happy life who doesn't possess good self-control.
I think it is long overdue that we get someone willing to discuss the less tangible aspects of winning poker. Mike Paulle is starting to do it with his poker.com articles also.
Isn't it disappointing that people feel threatened by people shedding light on seldom discussed topics?
"Isn't it dissapointing that people 'feel threatened' by people shedding light"
Here we go, Psych 101 rearing it's ugly head again.
John wrote: "Please name me one winning poker player that leads a happy life who doesn't possess good self control."
Philip Morehead
Big John wrote: "Perhaps you(Ron H)believe that Self-Control isn't the *most* necessary quality for a poker player to possess?" The most important "quality?"
Badger never mentioned anything about a 'quality' in his article. His argument addresses(very well in my opinion)that which he considers to be the most important "Skill" a person can choose to hone. He even uses the word "Skill" in the title of his article.
But now that you mention it, the most important quality a person can possess at the poker table is without question "Passion". Passion(or desire)supersedes any skill that you could ever hope to cultivate, yes--even Self-Control. Why? Simple, because you can't refine "ANY" skill without the "desire" to do so.
Martin D
"Passion?"
Please leave Lady Gambler out of this discussion.
vince.
"Passion?"
Passion is how I live my life, dear Vince. How can you leave me out of this?
"How can you leave me out of this? "
Metaphorically speaking my dear just a metaphor. You know like "Where have you gone Joe Dimagio, a nation turns it's... head to you.. Uhh, Uhh, Uhh"
Vince.
Self-control is a quality that can be developed or increased. All of us have some, it is simply a matter of degree. With most of us, through hard won experience, it reaches a point where it becomes a tool that we use to defeat our opponents rather than a lack that they can exploit to defeat us.
I believe, as you do, that desire is crucial to the success of any task you undertake. Many things motivate desire. I think persistance is also necessary for success in the process of acquiring skills. Most failures, in poker, or in life, are the result of a lack of persistance. People are usually aware of what they need to do in order to succeed. Most of them make attempts to do so, but fail to persevere. Whenever I meet a player who is doggedly determined to succeed in poker, I know that his failure can only be caused by a lack of resolve.
As regards the article by Steve Badger, my main point was that the intangibles of poker are not discussed nearly enough. So much emphasis is placed on adequate bankrolls, starting hand requirements, strategy, seat selection, etc. etc., that people seem to overlook some of the emotional pitfalls that prevent many people from becoming long term winners.
I know that it is absolutely true that I have survived my 38 years of cardroom and casino "Gambling" only because I have better self-control than the vast majority of people I play against. Game selection is another survival skill I am very good at. When it comes to poker skills, mine are probably in the lower 50% of the people who post on this forum. In spite of this, my income from poker over the last five years is probably greater than 90% of the posters. I am studying everyday to bring my poker skills up to a level where I can continue being profitable playing a wider variety of games against a more accomplished group of players. I play in games I can beat, against players I can beat. I will play only if the cost of playing is low enough to overcome and still allow me to show a decent profit.
John I agree!
These non technical aspects are more about winning than anything else, it makes for a more complete player.
Mike
See you Friday evening.
You can't play selectively without patience. You can't play aggressively without courage. You can't shift gears flawlessly without flexibility. You can't manage money prudently without discipline. And you can't handle bad beats, losing streaks and other forms of stress triggers calmly without self-control. The "innergame" determines the level of quality at which you think, behave, respond, react, and act as a poker player - at all levels, both at the poker table and away from it. It's about time that a columnist (with a proven real world track record) wrote columns about the all important intangibles that greatly influence the tangibles.
Roy Cooke's been writing about the "innergame" aspect 'off' and 'on' for years, and IMO they're are the most forgettable. Every time Roy submits one of 'those' articles, I figure he put off writing his column until the last minute and took the easy way out.
I have to admit though, that Badger's article had an interesting twist. Specifically, that we have the opportunity to prepare days, weeks, or months in advance, when pulling off a particular move against someone with whom we play regularly.
Martin D
Does anyone know a man named Ed who plays 30-60 to 75-150 stud at the Taj in AC? We met around Christmas time, and I'd like to get in touch with him, but I lost his information.
Any help on this obscure request appreciated. Thanks, Tim
I am relatively computer illiterate. I am not very experienced in downloading software off the Internet. Downloading ParadisePoker's software isn't a big deal is it? How do I get rid of it if I don't want it on there anymore?
Very easy. Click on link here and follow instructions
vince
To remove it, assuming you're using Windows 98, click on Start; hover your cursor over settings; click on contol panel; double click on Add/Remove Programs; scroll down until you find Paradise Poker; click on Paradise Poker; click on the box that says Add/Remove.
All that said, unless you have a small hard drive, your just as well off leaving it there. Who knows, you might want to try it again. If the icons on your desktop bother you, you can delete them without hurting anything. I have a folder labeled "gudge" where I drag icons that I don't usually use but might occasionally come in handy
If you do decide to down load it, it's going to take a while. Also, be aware that the estimated time you get shown for a download always lies.
By the way, if you're really new with computers, be aware that there is going to be a steep learning curve. Buy and read some of the "for Dummies" guides. Don't be afraid to play with the machine. Learn how to back up your important information so you don't have to be afraid of experimenting. Try to find a friend who knows how to put everything back in case you really screw something up.
Key phrase,Key Phrase>>>Don't be afraid to play with the machine. << vince
heading to Kansas City next month for business, any suggestions for Hi-Lo stud?
No info on stud/8, but Station has the largest poker room in the area by far. Flamingo has a room, but it's pretty small. I don't believe Argosy Riverside or Harrah's have poker rooms.
Hope this helps a little.
Wow, This is going to be sensational. Cool new Forums!! WFG is going to have to deputize himself a posse to keep up with all them varmints now!!
Post deleted at author's request.
Chuck, love the forums, you guys are doing great stuff with the old and the new. Have got a wealth of info and fun from the reads.
Great service for poker players, and it is free.
Have bought books elsewhere because I saved a few bucks especially not having to pay PA state tax elsewhere but now will buy from you as a token way of repaying you for all the fantastic forums.
Best.
he's already got gary. but how will they kepp up?
scott
Yeah I 2nd the new Cyber poker board.
Don't do cyber poker or cyber sex - nothing like being there. :-)
Can I just say that I don't think the Beginners Questions Forum is a very good idea. I haven't got time to keep up with all these forums as it is. In the case of Internet, Stock Market etc. I can just ignore them which is fine. But given that I haven't time to search through them all I will concentrate on the ones most relevant and helpful to me.
What I'm saying is, unless someone with more patience and time available than me decides to help out, the forum will have Beginners posting in it but no-one else answering.
My two cents,
Andy.
I think you're not thinking it through, Andy. I think there are many questions some beginners have that they might otherwise be too timid to ask on the regular forum. Now, they can ask whatever they like and not worry about wasting other posters' time. Plus, I think people like Jim, Dan, David Steele, Rick, Rounder and others will still pitch in and help. It's in their nature. We all want new blood to join the ranks and keep this game growing. This forum in all its departments does just that.
Also when you try to explain something so that a beginner can fully understand you, it often helps you get a firmer grasp on the subject yourself.
Post deleted at author's request.
.
That reminds me of one of my favorite sayings,
You can't help someone up a hill without getting further up the hill yourself.
Post deleted at author's request.
A fine kettle of fish this is!
Rick's student was *DYING* to meet Badger after I told her he was playing in the tournament tonight. Knowing how quickly he sometimes finishes, I had to interrupt my brilliant play at the NL Mexican Stud (I had tripled up in the first 30 minutes) and hurry over to the tournament area before he busted out. It was 45 minutes until the first break, so Steve was still managing to barely stay in it. I introduced them, and that is when the black cloud passed from hovering over his hat and came to rest directly over mine. I went back to my game and suffered a series of devastating losses that necesitated pulling great gobs of cash from my pockets to replentish the disappearing chips. I did slow play the best hand once, thereby allowing another player to make the nut straight against me, but the rest of my losses were brutal bad beats and suck outs.
"Student", playing her first ever Mexican Stud at NL or any limit, managed to book a win. Rick hustled her out of the game rather quickly when it became apparent that she was enjoying the looseness and fast action a lot and might be learning some bad habits that would be hard to unlearn or expensive to continue with.
After a few minutes of "sweating" me, Badger had seen enough carnage and decided to decamp back to his chateau and write his mini-trip report before I got a chance to "scoop" him. It is always fun to get together with people you know from playing or only as internet correspondents.
I take some modest pleasure in the fact that I singlehandedly made one Hispanic gentleman richer by about $1,200 tonight. I hope his newfound wealth brings him as much joy and happiness as I had in wresting it out of the aged and knarled fingers of the 15-30 lowball players at the Normandie this week.
Looking forward to my trip to LA next friday.
If I am still alive - this miserable flu is really getting me down re-occured on Thurs. morning and is lingering.
Unless I am knocked out of the 6:30 tournament early (a real possibility) I hope to meet you all there some time in the weekend. Dinner &/or Drinks on me (I think I can expense them).
John let me know where the action is Fri. so I can ramble on down.
Say is there an Italian HE game in town. :-)
Mike,
Most of the good action will be at the Commerce. I'm pretty sure we can get a small NL Hold'em game going if you are going to be there. It will give some of the pundits a chance to see if their theories about your style of play are correct. Email me as to when you'll be at the Commerce and we'll meet for the seafood buffet. After last night, I'll probably have to cash in my aluminum cans for a buy-in but I'll be there. ;<)
Big John,
Count us in for Friday No Limit. We may have another surprise 2+2 guest but I should double check first.
Rick
Rick,
I will be there Friday nite @ 7:00 p.m. I welcome your surprise guest unless it is Mason Malmuth. If he plays, I'm not sure that my weak heart could take that big a jolt. See you then.
I usually play lower limits, where it's easy to toke; a $1 chip for 3-6; a $2 chip for 6-12 (or chopped if the pot is smal). I had a good run at 9-18 tonight, and tried 20-40 as a lark, and was having a good run there also, but have no idea how much to toke the dealer. $5 seems a lot, especially given that the pots aren't proportionally larger -- there are fewer community pots and bingo players in a 20-40 game, as loose as the 20-40 game I was in was. I suppose I should've paid more attention to what other players were doing, but wanted to get a sense of the wisdom of the board, and test out the 2+2 forum.
You must play in Cali. In Vegas they rake the pot so there is change in the pot to toke the dealer. When I play on California I keep some dollar checks (change from when I pay time etc) to toke the dealer and waitresses. In LA I normally give a dollar after I win a pot; in Vegas I give 50 cents after a small pot and a dollar after a large pot and either $1.50 or $2 after a really large pot. This assumes the dealer is doing a professional job; if the dealer talks in the box I give nothing.
Randy
Almost everyone here tolks $1 at all the limits 6-12 through 20-40.
IMO, one of the best quick readd you can get on a players eperience is if he regularly tips more then that $1. No winning player is going to tip $2 at these limits excect in special circumstances.
D. z
Read Poker, GAming & Life by Sklansky for a good discussion on tipping. If you are playing for reasons other than amusement, you may be over-tipping. If you are just playing for fun, enjoy and tip in a way that you will feel good about what you are sending the dealer home with at night's end. Good luck.
you change the order of putting on your socks & shoes so that you only have to cross your legs twice. So instead of sock-sock/shoe-shoe, you now go sock-shoe/sock-shoe. Of course I try pawning it off as the more logical way, but deep down I know better.
Try slip-ons. . .us old farts love 'em! You only have to put your socks on in a crouched position, the rest requires little work at all, and can be done sitting OR standing. And they look so becoming with Bermuda shorts and dress socks pulled all the way up.
I suggest you completely follow the logic of the slip-ons and totally ditch the socks.
I turned 38 this month, not 68! If anybody ever catches me wearing burmuda shorts and slip-ons, please shoot me on site!
BTW - I have instructed friends that if they ever see me "blind straddle" just shoot me.
I don't usually follow sports, but since the Rams are involved and I'm from L.A., I thought I'd watch.
Thanks
Rams are giving 7 and the over under is. . .I think it was around 45 or 48.
is anyone else experiencing problems with RGP? I was trying to see mike Paulle's COP final report and I am not able to access it.
'
Post deleted at author's request.
Aol's news server is experiencing difficulties. You may see the missing posts tomorrow, or next week. You are NOT alone. It is world wide. Be patient or get a new ISP. I am looking into MSN and Earthlink.
I'm not having any problems with aol, but you might try this:
Click here: Deja.com: Read Discussions
Brett
that didn't work, try this:
http://x26.deja.com/%5BST_rn=if%5D/topics_if.xp?search=topic&group=rec.gambling.poker&GRPP=929814287.308609059&title=Related&query=poker
I Have Spoken!
Lets see, they got a $300 million dollar stadium built for them, sellouts since they moved and probably now for years to come, and the NFL shares revenues so it makes no difference where they play.
In LA they had a baseball stadium complete with an infield for 4 games, no sellouts unless the Niners were playing (with all Niner fans), no TV games around, and only one Super Bowl appearance...so you tell me, why would they move back? For all those loving adoring fans that decided that listening to the games on radio was enough?
Acid Forum Returns
ram
I was in Nevada last week, staying in Laughlin, but made a day trip to LV on Thursday to check out the scene. Did a little shopping at Gambler's Bookstore and got to the Mirage at about 2:00 p.m. Put my name on the 10-20 and 6-12 HE lists, and got into a 6-12 after about 20 minute wait. Not a huge step up in limit for me, but with the exchange rate, it roughly equates to a 10-20 game at home.
I know that a 6-hour session in one game in not necessarily representative of the entire sample, but I found the game to be somewhat weaker than I expected. There were a couple of women in the game who were very good players, but for the most part, the game was about the same calibre that I normally find in 3-6 and 4-8 here in Edmonton. I had a nice session - had pocket AA's 3 times and they all held up, and hit a river open-ended straight on the button in a big multi-way pot, but for the most part, I just kept my nose clean and stayed out of trouble situations. Ended up ahead a little over $600, which more than covered expenses!
I was disappointed to see that the Mirage recently took out 7 poker tables to add a Keno pit! Yikes, what is the world coming to? Talked to a couple of locals, and they said the big action is generally down the street at the Bellagio, and they must have trouble keeping the room full, so I guess who can blame the casino?
Amyway, I cashed out about 8:00 p.m., and was picking up a buffet comp from the desk when Mason walks in! I introduced myself to him, and he recognized my name right off. Had a nice chat with him for 5 minutes or so, and then he was off to get into the 20-40 game. Thanks for taking a few minutes, Mason; it was nice to meet you.
The Laughlin poker scene was about what I expected; basically populated with seniors in low-limit stuff in weak, passive games. I did get into a 4-8 full kill HE game one night at the Hilton that was a good game, and stumbled into a 5-10 Omaha/8 game,also with a full kill, at the Colorado Belle that was bizarre. There must have been $3-4M on the table, raises flying around at what seemed complete random, and there weren't 2 people in the game that had a clue about Omaha. Pot after pot over $200, and I couldn't get arrested. Hardly played a hand, and ended up down about $40; very frustrating because I knew if I hit any sort of cards, I could run over this game for big coin. Sigh.
I jost got back from a vegas trip myself, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The games were certainly soft feeling, (I was only playing 1-5, as alas college students have but a measly bank roll) and I was sorely dissapointed with the size of the room at the mirage. The keno pit was downright embarrasing. The play is tighter than L.A. which I expected, but I found that one guy or more at the table is ussually tight aggressive. My sample size was only 10 hours, but from talking to people, these games were typical. I expected to see more people sitting down at a poker table for the first time, just lookng to blow a few bucks, but most were just poker regulars who played for fun and broke about even all their lives. I expected more, but it was still good place to be.
-james H.
Why is that when I come here using lynx under Unix that the messages load headers only in reverse chronological order whereas when I visit using Netscape on NT everything shows up "normally" top to bottom? This started happening about the time the forums started splitting.
Jim you playing tonight.
I will probably be there unless this flu acts up again.
Mike
PS: Did you reset your preferences?
If I get out of here and get a nap soon.
as for the lynx, I can't really have preferences I don't think as it operates in a stateless environment everytime I call the program.
Well Jim, it's because a lynx is a cat. Cat's usually land on their feet when they fall unless they fall on thier backs. In that case they are "upside down." So make sure little pussy lands crack down and everthing will be fine.
vince.
I'll be in the Phoenix area in a few weeks and was wondering where the best place to play middle limit games is. Thanks in advance.
Kim,
Casino Arizona has the best mid limit games. There is Gila river and Fort McDowell also spreading Low and Mid Limit games. I suggest trying the 101 and Indian Bend Casino Arizona site 1st. I think you will like it.
Casino Arizona at Indian Bend and Highway 101 is really the only place in the Phoenix area that has anything other than low limit. On any given night they usually have 10-20 and 20-40 hold'em, 15-30 and 30-60 (or higher) stud, and 40-80 (or higher) mix going. Nowhere else in the area has anything higher than 10-20.
From Linda Johnson: I have just spoken personally with Tom Gitto and asked him what led up to the decision to go non-smoking and about the rumors of lawsuits from employees. There is absolutely no truth to the rumors. Tom's decision was based solely on the general well being of the majority of his customers. Approximately 80% of the players at the Taj are non-smokers and he felt that it was time to go with the majority and try to please them. I applaud Larry Clark, executive vice president of casino operations, for supporting Tom's decision.
I had always wondered what the percentage was, smokers to nonsmokers. I'm sort of surprised to find it only 20% smokers, I guess because it only takes a small number of smokers to make a room seem filled with them. As a non-smoker, I appreciate the move, and when I head down this weekend I intend to take a break from Trop's horrible air and check out the Taj.
Not surprised that the reason was to accomodate the majority of his customers. Of course I asked Tommy the same question and he never responded. I also heard that it was an issue with employees being subjected to side stream smoke and either (1) Taj is being considerate of its employees or (2) they are thinking ahead in case there might be a liability issue sometime in the future. In any case it took balls to do that and I applaud them. Can the high stakes players (you know who I mean) smoke, or must they be non-smokers. Can they use smokeless ashtrays?
My plan for this trip was to take a shot at one $500 tournament at the Carnivale of Poker and participate in several satellites. In addition, I planned on playing in several medium and small limit tournaments.
On Wednesday morning, I woke up at 3:00 a.m., finished packing my luggage, ate breakfast, and off to the airport for my 8:00 a.m. flight. To pass the time away, at the airport and during my flight, I brought with me Ray Zee's High-Low-Split-Poker and Doyle Brunson's Super/System books to read.
After I checked in at Harrah's (by the way, my room rate was $55 per weeknight and $75 for Friday and Saturday which is the Harrah's Gold Card rate), I went over to the Mirage Buffet to meet Diane from Green Bay and whoever else she invited for Lunch.
Wow! Was I impressed. It looks like I was having lunch with the poker big shots. Mike Sexton, Mason Malmuth, Donna Harris, Jan Fisher, Diane from Green Bay, Chuck (I forgot your last name), and several others (sorry guys but I do not remember your names).
We met in front of the Mirage Buffet waiting for Vince Lepore, but he did not show up. Later, I checked out the list of winners for the 7 Card Stud tournament and found a "Vincent" Lepore came in 12th place.
During lunch Mike was talking tournament talk (what else), Mason told us how Ray Zee plays No-Limit Hold'em cash games, and after lunch Donna made Mason dig in his wallet to leave the tip. Don't worry Mason, you'll get that money back in book sales, I just ordered a couple of new 2+2 books from ConJelCo.
For meals I ate at the Mirage buffet, Harrah's buffet, The Black Spot Grill at Treasure Island, Mirage's Café Caribe, and Harrah's 24 hour café. The food was fine at all places except for Harrah's 24 hour café. I ordered a $6.99 Steak and Eggs special. It was served with a tiny thin piece of steak. I miss the way Vegas used to be. Years ago you would get a fairly large cut of steak for a couple of bucks. I noticed that there are no cheap places to eat good food. It looks like Vegas have turned into an expensive tourist trap. By the way, when the buffets had long lines, especially on the weekend, I ate at Mirage's Café Caribe and Treasure Island's Black Spot Grille. Both places usually did not have a line.
If you're a coffee drinker like me, I noticed the coffee at the restaurants and Casinos was average to terrible, so I was frequently visiting Starbucks at Treasure Island.
For my first poker experience, I went to Harrah's and played a Pot-Limit Hold'em Satellite for $65. All the players decided to contribute $35 for a last longer bet. When five of us were left, we split it up with each of us getting $70. Then there were three of us left and I screwed up. I could have won it, but don't forget, I had been up since 3:00 a.m. CT and I was tired. Here's what happened. The chip leader had the button and passed. The blinds were $100 and $200. I had the small blind and called with 8c 5s and the big blind checked. The flop was 5 - 7 - 8 (all different suits). I checked and the big blind bet the pot. My opponent had $250 left and I had $575. I decided to gamble and raised him all-in, and he called. My hand did not improve and he showed me his 4 - 6. I should have checked and folded. What was I thinking? If I would have given the guy credit for a straight, especially since he bet over half his stack, I could have had a chance to win the satellite. Now, I had a quarter left. The next two hands I won and on the third I was gone.
Later that evening, I played $4 - $8 Omaha 8 or Better with ˝ Kill at the Mirage. Chuck, who I had lunch with, was in the game. It was a good game with some loose players. Eventually, I was moved to another table with a bunch of tight players. The game was so tight that once I raised in late position and even the blinds folded, so I decided to cash out with a profit of $53. I went over to the middle limit tables and watched Diane from Green Bay. She had racks of red chips stacked in front of her. It looked like Diane was cleaning their clocks. You should have heard the players whining about their beats.
On Thursday I woke up at 4:00 a.m. For some reason I could not sleep. I decided to go to the Mirage and play $3 - $6 Hold'em. The play was aggressive and shorthanded. By 8:00 a.m. I was down $80. The table filled up with some loose players and I thought the game would get better. Even though there were several weak players in the game, I could not get a hand to hold up. By 12:30 p.m. I was down for a total of $218 and decided to quit. I should have quit much earlier since I was tired and not paying attention to the game. But, you know how it is, you hate to leave the table a loser.
After lunch, I went back to the Mirage poker room and played $4 - $8 Omaha 8 or Better with a ˝ Kill. The game was filled with tight players. I quit after about three hours and cashed out with a $42 profit.
In the evening, I decided to play the $120 No-Limit Hold'em tournament at the Mirage. After I sat down the guy on my left says, "I see you're not wearing your hat, it must have been unlucky for you." I said "Do I know you? Then he said, "You should have never been in that pot, you spoiled my chance to win it." I realized he was one of the players that was knocked out of the Pot-Limit Hold'em satellite yesterday. Furthermore, he had watched me make that stupid play. He was mad because on one hand we were in together I forced him to fold and he probably had the winning hand. Anyway, this guy was still pissed. I decided to diffuse the situation and start some friendly small talk.
It didn't take me long to screw up this tournament, so here's what happened. Four of us saw the flop for a small early position raise. I had the small blind with a pair of queens. The flop was K - Q - 6 (all different suits). I checked it, intending to check-raise the raiser, but to my surprise everyone checked the flop. On the turn came a Jack making a two flush on board. So I moved-in and got called. Then it hit me, he had a straight. Sure enough, he shows me his Ace - Ten. What was I thinking? When the possible flush draw appeared I neglected to notice the straight. I decided to give it another shot and did a re-buy for $100. After that incident, the cards were running bad. I decided to make a stand and steal the blinds. In middle position I moved-in with Kc Jc and was quickly called by the big blind. I already knew what he had. Since, I appeared to be playing tight, I knew I was up against a pair of Aces and I would need a miracle flop to survive. The board didn't help and he showed me his Aces.
After the tournament, I went to Harrah's and played two No-Limit Hold'em satellites. In the first I finished 4th and came in 7th in the second. That was about all I could take. I went to my room and finally got a decent nights sleep.
On Friday morning, I played $4 - $8 Hold'em with a single $2 blind at Harrah's low-limit poker room. After three hours I cashed out with a $106 win.
After lunch, I played a No-Limit Hold'em satellite at Harrah's. I was playing much better today than previously. There were two of us left. The blinds were $200 and $400. I had the big blind with a Ah 9d. My opponent had $1300 and I had $1100. He bet $600 and I moved-in. He called and we decided to turn our cards up before the dealer turned the cards. My opponent had Js 7s. I could almost taste victory until a seven came on the flop and my hand never improved. This was the closest I came to winning a satellite.
Next, I decided to try the Megabucks slot machine. The jackpot was over 32 million. Well, I quickly spent $40 without hitting anything. I was finished gambling for the day, ate dinner, and went to my room.
Early Saturday morning I played a No-Limit Hold'em satellite. This time I came in third place. Here's was happened on the last hand. The blinds were $100 and $200. I had the small blind. The chip leader on the button passed. I called with 8d 10c. The flop was 6h - 7s - 9h. I moved-in with a $500 bet. The big blind called. On the turn came an 8h. I had a feeling I was dead. Sure enough the big blind shows me 4h - 2h.
After playing the satellite, I bought my $500 tournament chip and signed up for the 1:00 p.m. No-Limit Hold'em tournament. For the tournament, I dressed up in my cowboy outfit. I was wearing my black hat, shirt, pants, boots, and a belt with silver studs. While sitting at my assigned table, I glanced around the tables to see who was playing the tournament. Ken Buntjer was at the table next to me and Tom McEvoy was at the table on the other side. A player came over to my table and asked me if my name was Tom. I think he thought I was Tom McEvoy. I do wear glasses and a cowboy hat, but I'm much younger and have only a few gray hairs.
The game got started with a lot of fast action. Some limping, but most were raising, and the raises were $50 when the blinds were only $5 and $15. I thought the raises were too high. Many players were playing hands that I would dump for a raise. During the first level I was not getting the right cards at the right times. When there was plenty of action I would be getting the usual trash hands and when I had a playable hand I'd just win the blinds. A few times I tried limping with big hands, but ended up getting trouble flops and would have to either check it down or fold.
When the second level started - blinds were $10 and $25 - players started busting out in droves. It was poker suicide. Players were moving-in with almost any two suited cards and middle pairs. For me the cards were running bad, I was getting all the usual trash hands. After a few more players busted out, I was re-seated across the felt from Barbara Enright. I took a quick glance around and saw T. J. Cloutier and Phil Hellmuth were still in the game.
At the beginning of the third level - blinds were $25 and $50 - the action slowed down, but now I had only $125 left. Well, I was still getting the trash hands and decided to play a hand. I was in late position with Kh - 4h and called a $50 raise and the blinds folded. I was not playing the hand because it was suited, I was playing it because it was the first hand I had in the past hour that had a King or better. The flop came K - rag - rag and the early position player checked. I threw in my last quarter, my opponent called, and I won the pot. You should have seen the look on my opponents face. He started complaining about his beat. Words could not describe it. I was starting to have some fun.
It was hard to believe, but I was successful at stealing blinds with a small stack. But, I really needed to build my stack, so I changed my strategy and started limping instead of raising all-in. On the next hand I limped in under the gun with As Qc and was called by a middle position player. An 8 - rag - rag fell on board. The blinds checked, I checked, and the middle position player made a bet to put me all-in. I decided to gamble, I had six outs, and called his bet. An Ace came on the river and I won the hand. My opponent said, "I thought you had an eight." I replied, "I had to get lucky sooner or later." Barbara and I laughed. My opponent was pissed and I loved every second of it. Some of these tournament players are real whiners.
The pace was starting to speed up again. Mike Sexton was seated two seats to my right. He played aggressively trying to build his stack. After a few rounds he busted out. Barbara Enright was getting low on chips. She took a stand and busted out. The table I was at was starting to fill up with new players.
The next hand I played I had 8 - 4 unsuited in the big blind. Everyone folded and the small blind called. The guy that had the small blind was the best player I had come up against in the tournament. He was keeping track of time and making notes of his chip counts. I don't remember what the flop was, but he checked it and I checked it back. On the turn a 4 fell. He checked and I checked. On the river another 4 fell and he checked again. I decided that I would try to sell my hand for the minimum bet of $50. He thought for a few seconds and mucked his hand. Even if I didn't have the four, I think it would have been a good bluff against a good player.
By the end of the third round I had built up my stack from $125 to $700. My stack was still below average, but I had a chance to come back. Once the fourth level started - blinds were $50 and $100 - players started busting out again and the pace was furious. Someone came by my table and said there are nine tables left. I had only $200 left and decided to play a hand. A loose player in middle position calls the blind, I raise all-in with Kc Jc, and the big blind makes it $800. I knew I was gone unless I got lucky. Well, I didn't get any help from the board and the big blind shows me his two Queens. It was 5:30 p.m. and I decided to go have dinner.
Later that evening, I went to the Mirage and played $4 - $8 Omaha 8 or Better. The table had quite a few loose players. After six hours of play, I cashed out with a profit of $138.
Sunday morning I played an Omaha 8 or Better satellite. A young pretty woman was sitting next to me dressed in a tight designer dress. I didn't play it very well. The young woman distracted me with small talk. She put her hand on my leg, and that is when I noticed her gold watch surrounded with diamonds. I think she was looking for some action and I don't think it was poker. She was one of the first players to bust out. I lasted a little longer and made it to fifth place. After I left the table I looked around and she was nowhere in sight.
In the evening I played the No-Limit Hold'em tournament at the Stratosphere. It was a $35 no-rebuy event. I started out well and busted two players and became the second largest stack at my table. Eventually, the cards turned bad and I ended up busting out in 12th place (the tournament only paid five places).
On Monday afternoon, I decided to go to the Orleans and play the Omaha 8 or Better $20 buy-in tournament. I thought it would be a good idea since all the pros would be playing the $500 event at Harrah's.
I started out playing loose. After I had lost several hands, I decided to re-buy for $10. I built up my stack to $375 and at the first break purchased a $100 add-on for $10.
When there was twelve of us left, I was dealt Ah As Jh Jc under the gun. The blinds were $200 and $500. I raised it to $1000, a middle position player calls all-in, a late position player calls, and the blinds fold. The flop was J - J - rag (I don't remember the rag because I was too excited about the Jacks) and I bet $500. The late position player called all-in. I ended up scooping the pot and knocked out two players. Incidentally, the Orleans gives you a $5 casino chip for each player you knock out. Now, I'm at the final table with the second largest stack. The blinds at the final table are $500 and $1000 with no-limit rules for raises. After a few rounds the small stacks busted out and now there were five of us left. We all decided to make a deal to split up the prize money equally at $350 per player and give the trophy to the chip leader.
It was now a little after 5:00 p.m. I ate dinner and went to the Mirage and registered for the $60 Limit Hold-em tournament. I didn't have any luck at this one and busted out a half-hour after the break.
My last day in Vegas was Tuesday. I was too tired to play any more poker, so I decided to check out the Paris Casino. Nothing special here, just another fancy casino. I went over to the Flamingo and gave Megabucks a try for $20.
To pass the time away, I decided to watch the 7 Card Stud satellite players at Harrah's. While I was observing, a player named Larry approached me and said he watched me make it to the final table at the Orleans yesterday. He asked me if I could lend him a twenty if he busted out of the satellite. I said I'd cover it. Larry played the satellite well and made a deal so he didn't need the twenty. He introduced me to his friend Pam. They both came from California and were regulars at Hollywood Park.
I went back to my room and packed for my trip home. Before I left I decided to eat a late lunch at Harrah's buffet. I saw Larry and Pam at the buffet and they invited me to sit with them. We talked poker stories and other subjects. By the way, Larry is a financial advisor for a well-known brokerage firm.
I loooked for you but you know how many guys wear black cowboy hats? Anyway I was sitting with Tom McEvoy for the $500 NL HE event on Sat the 15th is that the one you played in? It was a good table I was in a dead seat, QQ cost me a lot of money and lost to K rag when 2 Ks hit the board. Later I busted out with 88 against Tom's Q's - I won my way into the tournament with a satellite win. Wish we could have met.
I was sitting at table 23 seat 2. But, you know there are alot of guys wearing sunglasses. Maybe, I'll catch you when you stop off in Illinois. See ya.
Mah,
The luncheon you refer to was the same day (time) as the 7 stud tournament that I finished in the money. I could not remember Dianne's last name so couldn't call the Mirage to explain. I was at TJ's table in the 500 NL tournament. TJ knocked me out on a stupid play by me. I had T3000. Blinds 150-300 I was small blind. TJ BB. Pass to me I have A,6o. My "limit" player takes over and I make it 900 to go. TJ with a big stack (his stack size should have cautioned me) came over the top with 7,7. In my excitement I threw my remaining chips in and lost when TJ made an unneccessary set. What a dumb play. Anyway sorry we didn't meet. Next time.
Vince
BTW - Liked your post except for the Carnage part.
Vince,
I was looking for someone that looked like Sean Connery. Anyway, at least you got a little payday for the stud event. Maybe, I'll catch both you and Rounder someday. Good Luck.
mah
Mah- Thanks for a great trip report and the "plugs". I love trip reports and yours was awesome. You do a much better job relating details than I can do.
Glad we got to meet and hope our paths cross often.
Diane from Green Bay
Diane,
I'm glad you enjoyed reading it. I wrote it to remind me what not to do. Like pushing it when I'm tired. Anyway, I'm planning on going down to Tunica for an April fools day of No-Limit Hold'em at the Horseshoe.
Mark- I just returned from Tunica Horseshoe and a short weekend trip for poker after a business trip.
Same friendly hospitality, well run room, and great games. They killed me in $20-40, but I did well in $10-20 when I dropped down to nurse my wounds.
Sunday morning we were playing in the remnants of the all night $10-20 when they decided to start a $20-40. However, it would have "broken" the $10-20 since they had a bad list and didn't realize what was going on. Jim Presley and Susan did the right thing and explained to the $20-40 players about the "bad" list and the need for the higher limit players to be patient so they didn't break the other game.
I was really impressed with how smoothly they handled the situation and calmly. It stopped so much complaining. This was always one of my pet peeves at a cardroom and now this is just another example of why I like the Horseshoe so much. Professionally run room and they treat players right.
I will be back down there 2/24-2/27 for "SARGE" and then again for the tournament. You mentioned the 4/1 event, but that is the day I fly back. I may cross paths with you on that morning though before I fly out. I will be there 3/24-4/1.
Regards, Diane
Diane,
Sorry, to hear they killed you. Anyway, I'm going to make this a road trip this year. I'm going to call the Horseshoe and Harrah's to see who has the better deal. If it's inexpensive, I'll probably come a few days early. I'll let you know.
BTW I think you should try the No-Limit Tournaments. My next trip report, since I will be very likely to play on April fools day, will be titled "A fool and his money are soon to be parted or the fool finally got lucky."
Good Luck,
mah
When you cash out, do you sometimes(or always)tip the cashier behind the cage? Do you think it's a mistake to tip them?
-Pat
I don't tip them. I toke dealers $1 a hand unless a small pot, wait staff $1 for each delivery and the valet for picking up and delivering my car that is it.
The door man, cage and floors are not in my tipping range.
It can get a bit out of hand.
These Indian casinos in Arizona are making money hand over fist. The tribes are distributing huge amounts of money and building homes for the tribal members and that is fine BUT they are still under fed govt. hand out programs and don't pay their people any money at all.
Come on tribal officials let lose of some of that big cash and pay your people a bit more than min wage or less.
I used to tip them up until a few years ago, and usually when I had an odd number of chips to cash in like; $247, I'd tip $2.00.
Night after night, that adds up to a nice yearly total. And like Rounder said, tipping door men, floor men, and the cage is just too much.
-Martin D
x
Which place has more professional poker players(not include prop)? Which place has better games and more chance to be success as professional?
LA has better games, but the cost of living is higher. I would say that Vegas has more professional players and more novice players. LA seems to have more maniacs.
Randy
Consider Arizona.
I never can figure out why people would choose vegas to play poker professionally or whatnot. Vegas, on average, had by far the worst games out of anywhere I've played (albeit only Arizona and California). The best games in vegas hardly compare games that run every day over at Casino Arizona.
George I agree I also play in Nevada, Cal, Ill and Ind. and apart for Aurora, Casino Arizona is the best poker I have found anywhere.
George, I am sure we would recognize each other look at Dick's pic page and say hi next time you see me.
These guys are pulling your leg. Tight games, unfriendly players, lousy dealers, and rotten food. That's what you'll find in AZ. You'd hate it. Stay in Vegas. Or LA. Anywhere but Arizona.
Brett
WOW you must be playing somewhere other than Casino Arizona food is super gormet quality, dealers are mostly good and the players as friendly as I have ever found. You must be playing as Fort McDOwell or Gila River.
No No No! It's terrible! Everybody stay away! Go to Vegas!
Brett
xx
I usually play stud there...30-60 to 75-150 if they get it going...occasionally 20-40 hold'em or the mix game.
Where's this webpage? I'm sure I know who you are, I play there almost every day normally, although I haven't gone much the past few weeks due buying a house.
Basically, I'm the young looking kid that's playing the biggest stud game that's going at the time. The one they call lucky.
I only play hold'em and most tournaments I can find time for. I play 10-20 most other casinos but I have a hard time finding a better game than the 4-8/6-12 at Casino Arizona.
http://www.annabelles-treasures.com/poker/photos.htm
I'm the guy with Johnny Hale.
I am Mike to everyone around there. Rounder is only my internet handle.
I'm George to everyone around there, and being that I wasn't original enough to come up with an internet handle, I use that here too.
Ya, I've seen you at Casino AZ before, albeit a while ago.
I'm pretty sure you know who I am. I'll be sure to introduce myself if I see you again. Being that I just moved to Ahwatukee about a mile away from gila river I might play more of those tourneys...I think I saw you at the last one I went to a couple weeks ago or so (only I didn't stay long due to the fact that I got knocked out on the first hand).
I was there last night the pot was over 16K not bad for a Wed night reservation game. BTW got the snot beat out of my 4 pair of J's everyone except one was best going in and all 4 got beat. I made it to the last 3 table and lost with AJs to AQo.
Have to be less aggressive with the cheese, I guess!
First hand last time i got a free play in my BB with 9T, flop comes 876, i bet 100 and the SB checkraises me all in, turn 8, river 8, he shows 98. Pretty sweet.
It's awesome if you can catch a few hands in those tourneys right away though, it's not hard to get action on them.
Last I heard they call him "Giggling George", probably because of his reaction when raking in pots.
Brett
Heh. Ya, that would be me. Do you play down here?
What makes the game there so good? Loose players? Large ratio of pros-fish? Number of games available? One need justification for moving to the desert, be it Vegas or AZ. And Rounder, if you've played AC, how would you rate their game?
thanks, shooter
I keep asking this question myself...
Post deleted at author's request.
Go to vegas if you want to play 60-120 or higher...
Though the 60-120 and 80-160 hold'em games in L.A. seem currently to be in a bit of a lull, if it does turn out to be only temporary there should be a reasonable amount of choice at those limits as well. As for stud, there have been one to two full 80-160 games at Commerce the two times I've been there recently. Same for lowball.
Weekends, go to Vegas. Weekdays, go to LA. The two are so close, they're basically the same town.
Badger, are there more pros in LA than Vegas?
What about per capita wise, pretty close than, or would Vegas now be greater?
Post deleted at author's request.
I agree. But notice on the General Theory Forum that Abdul claims there are only about two 'true pros' in LA. I have to believe his head had exploded or something just moments before writing that.
So where is "The Good Life" because I want some! First of all I'll try to define my version of The Good Life. Here's my list of requirements.
1) Good Health- Well this one is sort of easy. Eat the right food, get some exercise, and make sure I wear a condom. Hopefully my genetics don’t doom me to an extra short life from cancer.
2) Financially Independent- Now this is a tough one for me. I wasn’t born wealthy.
3) Emotionally Fulfilled – I believe having meaningful relation ships with my family and friends pretty much wraps this one up. Religion hasn’t been a problem yet.
Now here is the sticking point since I don’t have the number 2 requirement even close to being fulfilled the number 1 and 3 requirements are suffering. I seem to be spending most of my time on the number 2 requirement. I just don’t think putting in 40+ hours a week at work constitutes “The Good Life”. Some people I know put in more hours than this. After adding 8 hours a day for Sleep (which is part of the Number 1 requirement) I only have 3 days a week to try to fit in the rest of Number 1 and all of the Number 3 requirements.
Comments?
Chris Villalobos
Van Gogh thought the good life was painting a "Starry Starry Night"
Vince
Compared to a lot of people, you are living the good life. You have your health, a job, and enough money and time to play poker. Wait until you're Vince's age before you start whining.
Brett
Brett
You spelled winning wrong.
Vince
h
Find a job that is fulfilling. If your job is just a way to get money, then you're losing out on a big chunk of your life.
"Find a job that's fullfilling"
Now where have I heard that before. Easier, easier said than done!
Vince
I think that might be one of my big problems. I've pretty much maxed out the upper end of my current job. I'd need to go back to school to get any farther up the ladder, not that I really want to go farther up it. Seem's like I may need to start climbing a new ladder.
CV
Chris,
My good life criteria is a bit like yours.
Secret to number 2 is to get a bunch of money and invest it in the market in blue chip stocks, buy some rental property with more income than outgo and marry a good woman who won't spend all your money.
The work thing is a fiction I worked 70 hours a week for 25 years gave everything and had practially nothing to show for it even though I advanced and became a corporate director of GTE. Owning your own business is where it is at. Being your own boss is the best thing on earth after the health and family thing.
All that said Winning at poker is a "good thing" winning a poker tournament is the "best thing"
Yep,
Just getting the pile of dough in the first place. I just don't think 16 per hour cuts it (not including benifits), even for Boise.
I seriously need to think about getting a better job at least one with a higher top end.
CV
A lower middle class wage does make it tough to feel satisfied. I've been there and done that. Maybe with your poker winnings you hit middle, middle. There are other factors in life: family, spirituality, community,and artistic expression. If you are currently dissatisifed then I would go back to school. There is no reason to live a life of quiet desperation.
Chris working as a traditional employee won't give you the financial independence you seek nor the satisfaction. First of all as a W-2 employee taxes kill you no matter what. When Uncle Sam always gets roughly 1/3 of any increase you make the monetary increases don't mean all that much and you are still dependent on your employer. IMO Rounder has the right idea.
CV,
2) Financially Independent- Now this is a tough one for me. I wasn’t born wealthy.
Who the heck was??? You have to elevate above money. How you do that is up to you. You can be financially independent making minimum wage or you can be financially broke a millionaire. I have many interests that don't involve money, but involve helping out someone who is down. You have to find your path and if you find a job you like today stick with it because in 5 years you may hate it. Always keep looking and learning no matter what the learning may be, it's still better than sitting in your own stuff and whining about how all I get is 2's and all you get is A's.
ps: Youth is terrible thing to waste!!!
paul
Losing at poker is not part a good life...it's a night mare that gets worse and worse.....
John,
"Losing at poker is not part a good life...it's a night mare that gets worse and worse....."
Who said anything about LOSING, except you.
Paul
compulsive gambling...has hurt me. It hurts many people I know. Even players that win often spend all their time doing so. The families are neglected, and they have a poor social life. They also make snide comments when I self -deprecate, such as yours. Your remarks sound defensive to me. Why respond at all if the poker lifestyle treats you so well?
John,
How did I know you had a problem?? I'm not a mind reader. To admit you have a problem is a major step, you should seek treatment for your illness. I'm sure you've been told this a thousand times, but from the way you sound, I'm only guessing is that you are ready to get help. Go to a GA meeting which you probably have, and seek help.
You don't know me and I don't know you this is the internet not a self help group or any group for that matter. Your negative answer to my positive response was to try and pick you up. All I can say is if you're having a problem, look into the sol'n. I can't help you that is up to you.
Good Luck Paul
My records for all my Poker playing combined is in the Black. Unfortunately, I don't believe I'm yet skilled enough to make a decent living at it. Lets say 50,000+ a year would be decent.
CV
"You can be financially independent making minimum wage or you can be financially broke a millionaire."
I think we need to take into account that if a minimum to average wage worker's car broke down he may be walking to work. If he gets a life threatening illness he won't get the best doctor. If he loses his job he may go bankrupt, or have to receive government aid. I don't believe a Millionaire has these problems.
CV
CV,
It's between the ears, not what's on the hip.
Paul
"No one in his deathbed ever wished he had spent more time at work". "Do what you love, and love what you do." "Make your vacation your vocation - vice versa". And above all, PLAY HAPPY.
Sounds like you are looking for the "Qwan" in life.
It is different for everyone. I hope you find yours.
It's a great feeling
Best of it !!
MJ
This forum is great, I've really learned alot about the game of poker. I have very little casino experience (still waiting for Canterbury in April). I'm doing pretty well playing online. I'm nervous about something mentioned in "Rounders". They said something to the effect of "the cards don't matter" or "I can beat these guys without even looking at my cards".
Is this true in general? I'm confident I can play the right cards the majority of the time, but am worried that others will read me too easily. I'll probably be playing 6-12 or 10-20 Hold'em.
Any response would be apprecited.
I do it once and a while at a weak table UTG.
I will raise. Not look and read the dead zombie like stares and lead out if I get called I look. I can't remember losing when doing this with a predictable table.
I never look at the flop I am looking for reactions TO the flop. Funny thing is I cannot remember more than a hand full of times I saw someone looking at me when the flop came this goes for so called "world class" players in major tournaments.
Try it some time. It is the most important part of the game. I have watched games with friends and predicted hands based on flop reaction.
rounder, that is so true. i am a newer player with a few hundred hours under my belt. because i'm still getting my act together, ifind it hard to watch others closely enough during a hand i'm in. but, when i'm out, it's often comically easy to read reactions to the flop. last week whenever i found myself thinking "he's flopped a monster" i was invariably right.
more and more i'm starting to understand what it means to play the man as well as the cards. thanks for all the great posts.
It is easy to watch the others. If you are in a hand when the flop comes take a moment to watch the others reaction to the flop. If you can't watch all of them pick the "players" that are in the hand. When I am not in the hand I watch and make mental notes on who hit the flop or not.
I wear shades so I can't be seen looking at the players when they are perched over the flop. Don't matter much as they are so engrosed in the flop they can't notice anything else anyway.
Last week I was in the big blind and when I saw the reaction of the 3 players in the hand I bet out and realized I forgot to look at the flop. It was QTT and I had 9T - they all folded.
rounder, thanks again for posting for we fish who are mightily trying to flop our way out of the frying pan.
Hey everybody,
You won't be hearing from me much anymore.
Those of you who have noticed my participation on the forum know that I was scheduled to make my casino debut in Arizona in April. I was very excited. I have been studying poker and reading the forum since September when I discovered that poker is more than just gambling. My understanding of the game has improved ten-fold, and I have been craving a casino poker table ever since.
However, I am pleased to announce that my wife and I are expecting our first child in September. We are very excited and I look forward to being a father.
Yet, this does not bode well for my poker hobby. Really just starting out, my priorities dictate that available income should go to paying off my oppressive law school debt and providing for my new family. My bankroll -- even a low-limit one -- could be better used elsewhere (especially if the Fed keeps raising interest rates).
I will continue to read the literature and read all of your insightful posts. I won't post much -- without experience what do I really have to contribute? Someday, I hope to meet you all at a poker table.
I just wanted to thank everybody here. I especially want to thank Jim Brier, Rounder, Paul Feeney, Big John and Ray Zee (as well as anyone else I am forgetting) for taking the time to respond to my often-remedial questions. I also want to thank David, Mason and Ray for introducing me to a level of poker play that I didn't know existed. I hope that I can use the things you all taught me SOMETIME in the next couple of years. Best of luck to you all,
Jon Ingrisano
Good luck with ths family. I don't know whewre I would be without mine. Probably living in a van down by the river.
Sounds like you have your priorities in the right place.
Jon, Congrats to you and your wife! Good luck with the new addition to your family. It's also heartening to hear, as Rounder said, that your priorities are in the correct place... Take Care, Tim
Can someone give me a brief review of "Improve Your Poker" by Bob Ciaffone. I am mostly curious what games it relates to. I only play HE and am partial to HE only books. Still, if the concepts are good and universal, I will get it. I have read Jones' WLLH, HPFAP and currently reading TOP. I have seen Bob's name around here a few times, and most comments have been good, if I remember correctly. If you can't recommend his book, please feel free to mention alternatives.
Thanks in advance.
KJS
The holdem section is very very good. And the "big bet poker" section is awesome!!! There is a lot of practical and philosophical wisdom in that book. Improve Your Poker is a very down to earth and practical book that is written by a very experienced person who is also very blunt, frank, and realistic. It's my second all-time favorite poker book. My first is Sklansky's TOP. They complement each other.
"I only play HE and am partial to HE only books"
Excellent book. You will not be sorry you bought it.
"Improve Your Poker"
My favorite!
This is a MUST read, even if you only play hold'em. It deals more with "concepts" such as bluffing than general hand or game strategy. It will even make you lugh on occasion.
The chapters on big bet poker and satellite strategy alone are worth the proce alone if you play these games.
z
Thank you, Paul Feeney, for the compliment you paid me on the General Theory forum! It is nice to be appreciated.
Being the Wrong Forum Man is a thankless job. I toil in obscurity and many may misunderstand my intentions. I want the forum to be a better place for us all. The 2+2 founders have given us not one, not two, not seven, but TEN clearly-defined, topic-specific fora for our viewing and posting pleasure. That viewing pleasure declines when we must wade through irrelevant posts. Total world chaos is only around the corner.
While my super powers are limited -- I do not have the power of post transferance -- I do have the power (since childbirth) to nit-pick (politely, yet firmly).
To those who post inappropriately I say this: "There's a new sheriff in town."
Paul Feeney, you're one of the good guys!
WFM
There will be a gathering of the big bet faithful tonight at the Commerce. I expect the game to commence about 7:15. Rounder will be playing after he gets done with the $100,000.00 Guaranteed Limit Hold'em event. With a big tournament at the Commerce tonight, I'd be surprised if there aren't at least two NL ring games going. Hope to see some of you in attendance.
My Dearest Wrong Forum Man,
Some topics are difficult to place. I also think some of the forums need to be re-titled for clarification. Anyway, where would one put the following threads?
1) A serious thread discussing the best way to handle “must move” games from a player and card room perspective.
2) A serious discussion of the state of the card room industry.
3) A general poker question, but not one that is theory based.
4) A discussion of cheating, but particular to a specific game.
Regards,
Rick
He's doing a valuable service, and I'm sure Mason Malmuth doesn't want to have to do it again himself.
Rick,
My calling in life is not to weigh the merits of individual posts. I never comment on the merits of posts -- I leave that to you and others who are far more qualified in that regard. I simply try to point out organizational misposts. I must say that my job is never short of "easy" infractions.
Your examples are more challenging close calls. In the past I have always declined to nitpick close calls. It must be realized that the boundaries of each forum are not concrete, and each exudes various penumbras and emanations that will bring within its scope topics that do not appear at first glance to be appropriate. Often, the tone of the post gives valuable insight as to where it should properly be posted, and the history of the poster himself/herself is a factor. The ultimate test, Rick, is in how the post is tailored to the chosen forum.
I usually decline to address hypotheticals, as there is no actual controversy before me. But, here goes:
1. Other Topics; however, such situations can clearly have theoretical and strategic ramifications. It depends on the post.
2. Other topics; again, though, shifts in trends in the card-room industry can shift the types and composition of games; such shifts often dictate changes in strategy.
3. Other topics; however, general questions that could be adapted to any type of game may be approriate as to that forum. The Theory forum is clearly inappropriate.
4. A cheating discussion particular to a game should be in that game's forum, or in Other Topics.
Rick, remember -- penumbras and emanations. Also, the "punishment" for an improper posting is far from draconian. A polite reminder calling a questionable posting to the poster's attention is nothing to get upset about.
WFM
P.S. Sorry it took me so long to respond. I had been checking my original thread thanking Paul Feeney. And thank you, Rick -- you have always been an appropriate poster.
"far from draconian"
you're the best wrong forum man.
scott
It was a warm and starry night..............
Rick, Student, Scott Horton and I sit down to begin the second installment of the Mason Malmuth Big Bet Invitational when we are joined by two debonair and suave Continental strangers. One is a gentleman from Norway whose name, regrettably escapes me, the other happened to be our own Izmet Fekali!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is a handsome man of noble vistage and dresses in that casual elegence that bespeaks all things European. Best of all, the man started out incredibly unlucky. In the first two hours of play, each one of us at the table put a bad beat on him. I personally hit an 8 outer on the river on him, Scott Horton made a rivered straight, etc. etc. etc. Scott also managed to hit an all in 2 outer against me on the river when he had moved all in with top and bottom pair and gotten called by my top two. It detracts from the story, but my top two was J's and 6's, while his two pair was J's and 2's. When the 2 came on the river, Scott scooped in the pot and graciously bought a round of drinks for the table.
Rick and the gentleman from Norway each managed to flop sets against me and take me down to the cloth. Rick's set of 6's beat my two pair, and the Norwegian's set of fives made a fullhouse on the river to crush my turned flush. Student made her pocket K's stand up after she got all Rick's money when he foolishly tried to run his pocket Q's through her. She also got a lot of his money when he flopped 2nd nut flush draw and she made him pay at every opportunity to draw to it. As she was stacking her chips, Rick was heard to mumble something about how he was going to bust her if his draw had come in.
After busting out of the $100,000 limit tournament and getting some of his money back with a 3rd place finish in the super satellite, Rounder finally came over and sat down in our game around 12:30. In his honor, Rick and Student decided to stay an extra half hour. We never actually got to see any of the hands that he played since either no one called him or they turned over the winner before he mucked his hand. I'm sure he was playing big cards and wasn't caring whether they were suited or not.
Izmet and I made something of a comeback in the later stages, in fact, I managed to book my first NL win of the Millenium, having gone 0 for 2 in my first two outings. Now, a $79.00 win isn't too earth shattering I know, but when you are stuck $400 in a small game like this one, it isn't a bad result. Rick booked a win also, a combination of tight play and good cards. If it hadn't been for Student, he would have won even more. Scott Horton suffered a major loss. For the first time in 2 sessions he had to rebuy. I'm pretty sure he wound up losing about $80.00.
It was about a five and a half hour session, played for the most part with a full table. At one point we had a board with ten names on it. I doubt whether anyone won or lost more than $500.00 in the game, and most of us played from start to finish. Once, when Rick bought a round of drinks, I offered a toast to our inspiration, Mason Malmuth, which was received with a raising of glasses and smiles from all of us and a collection of very strange looks from the players at the tables near us. The cardroom dropped a total of $405.00 in collections at our table ($5.00 per 1/2 hour) while we were there. Several non-twoplustwo players quit our game to go play in one of the five different 20-40's being spread there. It is still my contention that NL games that are spread with small buy-ins and low blinds are fun in the social sense as well as the strategy sense, and offer no danger to the players that are greater than those of a typical 10-20 game. Rick won a $500 pot from me, I won a $500 pot from Henry, Izmet won a $500 pot from Scott and Student won a $400 pot from Rick. There were no giant pots. I think that our table had as much enjoyment at it as any of the others. I hope the next time we get one of these games going that we can get more of the forum people involved.
Big John,
What a pleasure playing in the same table with you, Izmet Fekali, Scott Horton, Rounder and Rick. Such a tough line up and I survived!! I shall never forget yesterday night and thanks for making it happen.
Actually John at least one of my hands was a couple of rags but a big bet to win $3 really isn't my idea of good pot odds. :-(
I must add it was really nice to meet Izmet, Scott Horton, Chico, and seeing Rick, Big John (I don't know why I enjoy seeing Big John cuz it always costs me $25 every time I do) and the lovely and gracious Student.
I hope to be back LA in a few weeks and will lay off the red meat for a while I think I am getting to aggressive for my own good. Seesch, calling John Bonetti with a 54o and catching a flush is not what I call tight play. HUH!
Why was 6 afraid of 7? Because 7-8-9.
h
If I needed to grind out $150 per day and wasn't willing to go back to doing my regular, pre-retirement, line of work, I guess I'd sit my butt down in a mid-limit lowball game and play ABC for 5 or 6 hours a day. I'm sure that I could do it successfully, but I know that I'd hate the drudgery of doing so. I have, in the past, spent as many as 1500 hours a year doing that very thing. Well, not ABC exactly, but putting in the hours and hitting my overall win targets. It certainly wasn't very much fun since I had to put up with cigarette smoke, ill-tempered old people, and just about every angle play ever devised by man. Now that I've become an old person, (hopefully not ill-tempered) I try to participate in poker games where I can be reasonably certain of having fun and enjoying the time I'm spending. I prefer to make money while doing this, but it certainly isn't the single most important requirement.
When I'm sitting in a game where we are laughing and having a good time, I won't usually make much of an effort to play my very best game. I won't deliberately throw my money away, but I will make some plays where I'm consciously taking a little the worst of it in order to stimulate more action and greater table enjoyment. A happy table is usually a gambling table. When I am successful in stimulating others to gamble up freely, I've accomplished two goals; I've gotten them to play *my* game, and I've created an environment that is conducive to my having fun. Sometimes, when this environment is created, I wind up losing some of my money. Sometimes, I am able to hit a few well-timed hands and walk away with a good win. Through either eventuality, if I had a good, enjoyable playing session, I walk away content.
In the small NL game we played last night, we had three players who weren't playing for enjoyment. Two were professional poker player wannabes and the other was some angry old man who wanted to vent. None of the three were Twoplustwoer's. I busted one out after he'd sat for five hours, ill-humored and morose, fending off all efforts to make him part of our celebration. His sidekick, Charlie, actually eked out about $100 of profit because he won $400 in pots where he had the absolute nuts before committing any of his own money. Once, when the two were sitting side by side and pushing $2.00 per won pot, Henry made a $7.00 bet UTG that was folded to Charlie in the BB who raised it to $22 after Henry had flashed his two black Queens at him. Henry got very upset and wanted to know what Charlie was doing raising after Henry had shown him his hand. (Yes Mason, collusion does exist in public cardrooms) After Henry passed, Charlie showed him his pocket K's and told Henry he wasn't going to "soft play" them because it wouldn't be right. Charlie has a reputation throughout the tournament playing world as one of the least ethical players around. I've never met anyone who remembers Charlie paying a debt or honoring an agreement. He's owed me $20 for three years and doesn't get embarrassed when I dun him for it everytime I see him. He made $20.00 per hour last night. The third guy, who Rounder knew from Arizona, was a tilt-monster and managed to spew off $300 in the hour he was with us, berating dealers over not being allowed to "rabbit hunt" and calling for set-ups. He acted like he just wanted to pick a fight with someone. If it weren't for these three players, who collectively paid all our time collections with their losses, the evening would have been completely enjoyable. If you are primarily someone who plays for social enjoyment, public cardrooms and the desperately marginal "professional poker players" who reside therein, will usually thwart your ambition.
We played with Mo Fathipour, a successful mid limit semi-pro. He is an absolute gentleman, always behaving impeccably and a man who tries to suit his game to the temperment of the table he's at. Mo would be welcome in any game I play in although his playing skills dictate that he would universally be a favorite over me. There were several other players who sat and played, none big winners or losers and none that did anything to destroy the ambiance of the game. It isn't that you have to be a social player or play anything other than your very best game. All that social players want or need is that you not do anything to discourage the games social interaction or bring stress, anger and hostility into the game.
Big John,
I shall always enjoy playing a poker game with you. You make it very special and very social.
Student,
Thank you for bringing your grace and competitive spirit to the game. Like me, you appreciate the competitive challenges that one has to face in a big bet situation. You and I might not always have the best of it when it comes to poker proficiency, but we need defer to nobody when it comes to our capacity for enjoyment. I hope to see you at our next get together at the Commerce. By the way, there was a small NL ring game that started spontaneously today at the Commerce.
/
One thing I absolutely hate is when I sit down in a game, keep my mouth shut, behave perfectly, and am constantly "dunned" by the loudmouth "wanna have fun" types that are constantly trying to bring me into their conversation. "Hey what's the matter with you?" "We're just having fun." "Jesus, what a grouch."
All this comes about when I haven't said ONE word or behaved inappropriately. I am just sitting ther minding my own business and remaining silent. What's wrong with that? Why do people constantly consider this type of behavior anti-social? If you want to talk and joke around fine. I'm not always in the mood to do that. Many times I am but when I'm not I just want to be left alone. Especially when I am not one iota out of line.
Sometimes the ranting and raving of the partying players just bores the hell out of me. I hate wearing headphones but I do sometimes to drown out this type of boring conversation. Some people just want to sit down and play a quiet game of poker. They should be allowed to do so without criticism from the "party animals" that think anyone who doesn't want to join in is just an ass.
If you just knew how boring it is to have to listen to people talk about sports, movies and hands that they've played you might understand where I'm coming from.
The difference is I don't criticize you at the table just because you are talking and having fun. That's your business whether I like it or not and I have to put up with it regardless. Therefore, I should be able to play my game any way I want to play it unmolested.
You are absolutely correct. My post was meant to address another type of player entirely. Quiet players are welcome. Grouching, complaining, whining and hostile players are a different matter.
If you are fortunate enough to get into a good game where the players are paying more attention to the social side of the game than the quality of their play, sit back, pop in a CD and reap the harvest. Hopefully, in doing so, you will crack an occasional smile as you haul in well deserved pots. Good luck.
Just so no one gets the idea that the Arizona tilt monster is a friend of mine - don't - I just happen to know this jsrk because I won a lot of money from him last year and wish I could keep taking his money, it is hard because he is banned from every casino in Arizona he is a real piece of work and abuses avery one in shouting distance. He got to me one night I had AK and with a K on the flop he bet and called my raises all the way to the river and when I showed my AK to beat his QQ he threw his cards at me. I said everyone at the table knew I had the K's except you you stupid M----r F----r - so we are not friends but I like playing with him as long as his seemless never ending stream of money doesn't run out.
Eddie the painter?
No he is an arab known as Mike or Mohamid - about 5'8" 160lbs and black/grey hair from Tuscon I think. Bad tempered all the dealers and players hated this guy. He lost a lot of money when ever he played and played from 3-6 to 20-40 cooldn't beat any game with a 357 and a ski mask.
Another good time, thanks John for putting it together. As you know I make my living playing poker but I still love to play. Spending Friday night prime time dinking around in that no limit game may not be a bright financial move but it sure is fun and that's what it's all about.
Best,
Scott (Now Burek aware)
Big John,
I've been very busy and have not had time to thank you for organizing the game. I've already got a potential 2+2 recruit or two for the next time (hopefully in two weeks). I'll work on more.
Anyway, my friend Greg is over waiting to watch a tape of the Sopranos and we both enjoyed reading your terrific post(s). Hopefully we can get to dinner some time or maybe I'll even talk him into the no-limit game for a change (he normally plays 15/30 and 20/40 holdem). He is no fan of big bet poker but I know he would enjoy the social aspect of the game we have going.
Regards,
Rick
Big John,
There is no playing for enjoyment when you play in a smoking atmosphere. The person you knock out to your left or right that doesn't smoke may be replaced by a smoker. My attitude stinks due to the stink of cigarettes or CIGARS.
paul
Paul I was a smoker for over 20 years and quit in 1983. I can honestly say smoking doesn't bother me much. Next day the smell on my cloths makes me want to puke and my burning eyes, red and irritated. You know I guess smoking does make ne sick. :-)
Rounder,
It gives me a major headache and I cannot concentrate as well on the cards. I might have to go back to 1-5 7cs non-smoking. I've been emailing management to expand the poker room to non-smoking, but to no avail. Kathy Raymond of FW said I could start a non-smoking higher stakes game. I'm going to try that this Saturday morning and see if anyone signs up. If not I don't know but my health is more important than cards, since I'm not in the best of health due to the use and abuse that I gave myself for 25 years, I have to be careful.
Thanks Rounder and Good Luck
Paul
Yeah, you guys are right about the cig. smoke. I am a smoker, but the smokey environment of the card room really starts to take its toll on you after awhile. I have been trying to get up from the table to have a smoke most of time, because if all the second hand smoke bothers me as much as it does, I can only imagine how much the non smokers like it.
I agree with beg John on the social aspect of the game. I am not exactly the life of the party at the poker table, but I don't like anybody bringing down the mood of the table, especially late when the game is short-handed, very profitable, and in danger of breaking. Nothing pisses me off more than when I am in a great game against really weak players, and some jerk decided to berate some player for his poor play..drives me nuts.
On the other hand, I often play with a guy who won't ever shut up, he has a million stories, most of which are very entertaining and interesting, but I don't have time to talk AND pay attention to the game, so it goes both ways, but overall, I prefer to have lots of happy gamblers at my table.
Mike
I like to think of myself as a fairly liberally minded person, and upon throwing out my garbage I like to dispose of my "recyclable" goods in the proper garbage receptacle.
Now, as I'm sure all of you well know, Columbia University has a profoundly hypocritical attitude towards drinks in libraries. Although ostensibly illegal, there is no enforcement for the policy and recent reformists have successfully pushed towards the limited legalization of "spill-proof" water bottles. Anyhow, the upshot of it is that drinking is not condoned, but neither is the law enforced.
I have no problem with this standard until I am confronted with my garbage problem. Because of the current state of the law, there are no can recycling receptacles in the library. As a result, the environment suffers, and we globally minded individuals are forced to either tote our garbage to another building or injure our fragile planet.
I say legalize it completely, elminate hypocrisy, people will always drink from cans. Its part of human nature. Don't be a don't be, be a do be.
alex
huh?
alex is just dabbling with politics. i keep trying to tell him there is no point in helping people, but he won't listen to me.
scott
You modern kids are so darn spoiled!
When I went to an institute of higher learning, we went to the place where the stone tablets were kept and walked in a circle around the information contained thereon. If we got thirsty, we drank from our goatskins like civilized people everywhere. CANS? We didn't need no STEENKIN'CANS!
A friend of mine said that he seen me dressed up in my cowboy outfit on the Discovery Channel on a show about Vegas on January 19th. If anyone knows the title of this show and/or if it can be purchased please send an e-mail to me.
It was the 1999 WSOP and can be purchased by calling 888-404-5969.
a
I got the idea from Darrel "Dazzler" Layton while I was browsing his CARDS mag. Darrel dresses up as the Sheriff. But, you know what happens to Sheriffs?
Anyway, to answer your question. Sometimes, I wear the cowboy outfit. Next, time I may dress as "The Man with No Name" just so I can say, "Do ya feel lucky punk"?
LOL
I recently started experimenting with memory systems, such as those advocated by Harry Lorayne. The idea, without getting too detailed, is to replace in your mind something that’s hard to picture, such as a playing card, with something that’s easy to picture. One of my goals is to be able to better remember the upcards in seven-card stud and its variants. I have not used the system long enough to know if it’s going to work. Do any of you have more extensive experience with mnemonic systems of this type? Do they work for card games?
For those who are interested, the Internet has a lot about memory systems. Here are two addresses to get you started:
http://www.premiumhealth.com/memory/
http://www.demon.co.uk/mindtool/memory.html
I believe this system works best with Gin Rummy. I've always thought Poker and BJ were too fast paced. Though I may not have studied enough.
CV
I don't play much 7-stud primarily because I don't yet have a memory system, but coincidentally I was just designing such a system this week.
Now what needs to be memorized?
You could memorize exactly each card and its location. However, this would be difficult. You could memorize exactly each card without regard to location. However, this would make it time-consuming to answer questions like "How many spades are out?" You could memorize how many of each rank are out and how many of each suit are out. This seems to capture most of the necessary information.
Even so, I have created a scheme to memorize the exact cards, because that's what I need for other games, and then I've got an idea for how to extract the number of each suit relatively quickly.
-Abdul
Been there done that. A memory system has been out since the 20's for memorizing a complete deck of cards. The concept is simple but it takes more practice than card counting ever did. Pick up "The Memory Book" by Harry Lorayne and Jerry Lucas that Bill C. talks about.
I know of a British guy that can memorize a Complete shuffled deck of cards and then name them off in the order he saw them in less than 2 minutes. He uses this technique.
In the past I've written that Skansky's Key Card concept could be made possible if one were well practiced, I just never got that fast.
CV
Bill,
You might be interested in two books: The Art of Memory, by Francine Yates, and The Memory Palace of Matteo Ricci, by Jonathan Spence. They won't tell you how to memorize cards, but they offer fascinating looks at the concept of memory systems as devised by various philosophers and scholars. Thomas Harris also used both works for Hannibal, his sequal to Silence of the Lambs.
John
Planning to travel this summer. Anyone have suggestions on where to play in the following cities: 1) Eugene, Ore 2) San Francisco, Ca and 3) Sacremento, Ca.
Thanks to all
You can play 3-6 to 20-40 at Spirit Mountain (Highway 18 in Grande Rhonde), probably 1-2 hours from Eugene. Also Chinook Winds in Linclon City (on the coast) has 3-6, but only two tables in their poker "room", also about 1-2 hours from Eugene.
There's also one in Canyonville, 7 Feathers - I do not know what they spread there, but it may be a little closer to Eugene. On exit 99 I-5 I believe.
Enjoy, Tim
A very good 4/8 is the Phoenix Cardroom on Auburn Blvd, in Sacramento.Wide range of player types from maniacs to tight agressive,solid. The manager runs a tight ship and the dealers are good. Good luck, send Email mabe we can meet up?
Help! For use on my poker page, I have been looking for the 52/53 graphic images for a deck of cards. Can anyone steer me to a (hopefully public domain) source that would have them?
If I get them, I will make them available for use in posts and publish user instructions.
Thanks, Dick
Dick,
Try www.arttoday.com . I think you can get some cards out of their free images section.
Andy.
If you install Paradise Poker you also get the deck on your C:\ParadisePoker\... directory. With ok names
Ac = Ace of Clubs 5s = 5 of Spades
But they are BitMaps about 4k each card :-(
Or I can Zip the Dir and send it to ya.
Bestof it !!
MJ
Microsoft has a freely distributable version of a DLL which contains the front and back images of all the cards in the deck. This is the DLL that is used in MS card games like Hearts, Solitaire, etc.
Since it's freely distributable, you should be able to use the graphic images any way you want. One way to get them for use on a web page would be to load a game of solitaire and use a screen capture utility to make bitmap images of all the cards.
You can't use the Paradise Poker bitmaps, as they are Paradise Poker's property.
This is what I use for my software. Follow-up question - does anybody know if I can legally send out copies of the 32-bit version of this DLL to users who don't have it ?
Thanks,
Andy.
On the MSDN site there is an article (In 'Hardcore Visual Basic') about a guy who is freely distributing the 32-bit cards.dll, renamed cards32.dll. He asked for and got Microsoft's permission, but I'm not sure that's necessary. You can read the article - it's in the MSDN Library.
.
Thanks, Dan, this sounds like the solution to my question. Pardon my ignorance, could you post or send me the link to the MSDN site and/or library? Thanks.
Dick
Go to msdn.microsoft.com, and click on the MSDN Library link on the menubar at the top. You should get a Javascript tree control at the side. On the tree, under "Books", you'll see a book called "Hardcore Visual Basic". The information is in there, in one of the later chapters.
If you have any Microsoft Development tools, the same information is in your MSDN help.
Sorry, I can't remember the URL exactly.
Microsoft have deleted this book from their On-line Library on the grounds that it is out of print. Me, I would have thought that the book being out of print would be a good reason to _keep_ the on-line information, but who am I to gainsay Microsoft ...
If I find any other useful information I will post for anyone who is interested.
Andy.
I have played in Las Vegas, AC and the Seattle area and of the three Seattle players tend to be the most knowledgable at the low limits (4-8 upto 10-20). While there are certainly a lot of bad players, I would say that a majority of the players have a basic understanding of concepts like position, pot odds, hand selection. While most still don't play well, they certainly are more knowledgable than the LL players I played against in Vegas and AC and from what I've heard from other posters here, they're tougher than SoCal LL players and Arizona players. Any Comments
I have played quite a bit if LL HE poker and can count the number of good players on maybe 2 hands. So your comment "tough LL players" is an oxymoron to me a bit like jumbo shrimp.
toughest meaning, tougher compared to other LL players, not tough. In some areas I'm sure players are tougher when compared to other players in other areas. That's all the post was asking. It was not trying to imply that LL players are tough anywhere.
I'm sorry for the post I forgot that you were the expert on all things poker. Rounder.. what a joke, more like sucker.
Sorry Atwood didn't know you were so thin skinned.
I am by no means an expert on anything I am just another asshole trying to make it to 90 so I can die quietly in my sleep.
You know what, that response made me laugh, sorry about that original reply, I just hope you understand what the post was about, it was in no way implying that the average LL player in Seattle is tough. I just thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss
ROUNDER, A trip around the NWest could be very profitable for you(tournaments) In my opinion tournament level play is better in Ca and Na then the Seattle area. Most rooms do not use tournament players to start thier ring games,the emphysis is on the regular game.
I agree, the tournaments around here are soft, especially the NL Holdem events.
.
Only in Arizona where the LL 4-8/6-12 games are so soft they are hard to pass up. I'll play higher limits when I travel. But I do maintain the LL games have few tough players and I like the softest seat I can find.
ATWOOD,
I play LL HE in Seattle and have been to Vegas a number of times as well. I find the regular Muckleshoot games to contain much better players than in LV. I have played with a number of players that often play successfully at higher limits and in big buy-in tournaments. Of course, there are some fish in every game but I am not surprised to be up against players who are aware of good starting hands, position, and generally strategic play. Frankly, I like it that way. When I read these forums and learn how loose the LA games are (and how expensive) I am very glad to be living in Seattle.
KJS
Where do you usually play? I live in Seattle and play at a couple of the cardrooms. Diamond Lil's mostly Muckleshoot occasionally.
ATWOOD,
I live in Seattle too. I only play at Muckleshoot. Have not been to Diamon L'ils. Send me an email and maybe we can plan to hook up some time.
KJS
I think the formula would be:
More players + (more) tourists + higher available limits = softer low limit games.
Hence, tougher LL games in Seattle than in bigger poker centers.
From Olympia to Bellingham in W Wa, an area roughly the size of the LA basin has at least 50 cardrooms and casinos. "tough player" is very subjective but alot of poker books are sold in the N.West and CP mag is very available. Most rooms have all types of tournaments but ring games are most popular. As far as skill goes it would be very difficult to distinguish between an LA player or a Seattle player,especially at LL. The Northwest is much more then Boeing and Microsoft and John F, I think we most definitely qualify as a large poker center! Comments anyone? Atwood, KJS? A former cardroom owner in Washington
Based on what I've heard it would be very easy to distinguish your typical LA LL player from your typical Seattle LL player
Sorry, didn't mean to belittle the NW as a poker center. I knew there were quite a few cardrooms there, but I see there are even more than I realized. Still, I think the tourists and higher available limits in places like LV and AC are important factors in making for softer LL games in such spots (to the extent that they are softer... I don't know from first hand experience that they are. But I do know that limits like 10-20 tend to be tougher in places where there are no higher limits to absorb some of the better players.) Also, the huge population in LA is a factor, making for so many games that there is more opportunity for game selection.
John/Bro,
LL players are probably the most universal group that I know of. The thing that determines how good they play is the Ante structure more than differences. In LV I didn't do well because there is no Ante. In FW where I'm used to there is a .50 ante. So if your good at no ante LL structure you will beat a .50 ante player I believe most of the time. If your used to a certain ante structure and not used to another ante structure, your not as good as a LL player who is used to all ante structures and IMO is the best LL player.
My answer to this question IMO is "The Best LL Players Are The One's Who Can Run From One Game To Another Making Ante Adjustments, Game Adjustments, and Personnel Adjustments."
Where ever the atmosphere fits the above criteria, which I would make a guess at LV, LA, AC, and any other LL haven that I do not know about is where the best LL players would be.
paul
Do you have any memory technique to remember card in7CS game,any book you recommend?
No. I just remember what I think I need to remember.
I memorize the folded cards and put them in order highest to lowest. I only count suits till they reach 3, then i consider the suit dead.
v
Here are some good tips:
1) play a lot of gin in your spare time 2) Learn one of those "archaic" multi-parameter balckjack counts and use it 3) Keep a 13*4 grid (or other good visualization of a deck) and picture what has been used by "x-ing it out" or something similar.
I have used 1,2 and 3, and I think I do pretty good depite my overall inexperience at stud and casino poker.
Good luck.
I would not recommend #2. Even a multi-parameter blackjack count is not going to improve card memory for poker. It's too much time invested to learn, and the only thing it tells you is how many "high", "middle", and "low" cards are killed. Taking the simplest count, hi-lo, as an example. Let's say the folded up-cards that have been seen so far have been 2,2,3,5,7,T,T,T and the up cards still showing are 5,6,T. So, by hi-lo count, the current count is +2, meaning there are more high cards left in the deck than low cards. Therefore, if I'm holding A-K/Q-J-6, I'd think I've got a decent chance of filling out Broadway. Of course, tens are cased and the counting system has failed me.
And flush draws are a whole other story. . . In short, don't bother learning a BJ count unless you're going to be a BJ player.
There are a couple of new threads here, one started by me, about remembering upcards in seven-card stud. I just thought of another question: In "Poker, Gaming, & Life," David Sklansky states that he used to have a problem remembering the upcards, but that he no longer does. If he wouldn't mind sharing it with us, I'd like to know what technique he uses.
ive come to the conclusion (tenative) that if a 3 flush on 3rd street is great with all live or 1 dead card(full bring in) , and if 2 or 3 are dead then only come in for bring in (and be sure it wont be full bet) and pray for 4th flush on 4th street.
what do you think?
ive found these hands are easy to play and pretty profitable.
brad
This will probably get a better response if you repost it over on the Other Poker Games forum.
Other More Appropriate Forum Man
f
Calling all female Arizona Hold'em players. I need a partner for a tournemtent at Casino Arizona it's a $5000 added event. I am hoping there are some lurkers out there who want to play in this mixed gender team tournament. I know few women and the ones that play reguraly already have team mates.
I'll pay the entry fees.
E-mail me if you want to play.
x
There's a punch line in here somewhere ...
Sure, I'll be your partner, but YOU have to be the one to wear the dress!
Have you tried the "personal connections" classifieds in the Republic?
Somehow it seems wrong that you should have to pay to attract a partner. With your reputation, make her pay the entry fee!
Get on line and look up the one who thought you were "photogenic."
Always trying to be helpful ... Dick
LOL
Please excuse my inexperience, but how does a doubles poker tournament work? Do you play with the same stack? Do they start allowing collusion? Or is it sort of a tag-team thing?
is because he dresses up like a girl, a lot. So he could be your partner.
but I don't think even the first place would be worth having him on your arm.
1/2 hour on 1/2 hour off the same stack.
I got a partner. So I'll report the results Mon night or Tues morning. It is my 1st one, I was gonna play a partner event at the Seniors but had to rush home for an emergency.
Hell I am playing so bad right now I feel sorry for my partner she thinks because she has seen me at a lot of final tables I am a good player - I have news, I have been stinking up the place lately - I can blame the bad run of cards but I have been playing badly for the last 2 weeks. Hope to smap oput of my slump soon it is getting expensive.
Does anyone know where you can play Texas Hold'em in Ontario Canada, specifally in the general Toronto area if possible?
s
Haven't seen a post from cmall caps, and the rest of the poker prods for a while.
Did they get caught hacking into the CIA computers or committing some other computer crimes.
.
i am still reading the forum. and when i think i have something to say that has not been said i'll post. but i have been busy with school etc. i'm still around. don't you worry. i've even been playing regularly. came in 8th out of 55 in a nl he tourney. last hand. blinds are 400-800. i have ATo, raise all in for 4200. big stack in sb calls with JTs. flop is JTx. i am gone. they pay 6 places. i was the 5th biggest stack and i almost mucked and just waited for some people to be blinded out, but 6th is 125 and 2cnd is 1200 and 1st is 2050. so i thought this was a good shot at doubling up. i double up through one of the 2 big stacks in the blinds and i'm 2cnd biggest stack. anyway, nl is so cool.
scott
Where did you play this tourney and what was the buy in? And was it your first?
shooter
I love NL HE I wish it were the only tournament game. Limit has to much luck involved and you need cards to win. I can get to the final table in a NL tournament by winning 3 hands - of course it may take a lot more playing once there.
Cheers,
Here we have my friend Big John "complaining" about being hit by the deck and I am being hit by the bottom half of the deck.
I had my worst week for ages this week 1 3rd in a small tournament and a net $160 loss (1st loss recorded for a full week in several weeks) for the week bring my hourly rate down.
I have been getting some real doggy hands and to top it all off I am suffering from the "LA poker virus" which is a combination of "Asian flu" and delusions of grandure.
I am finding myself playing marginal hands in marginal positions seeing one card to many and over playing my crappy hands - maybe it is a function of the slump I am in or a an active virus I picked up in LA at the Commerce/Crystal Park tournaments.
I think I need a shrink.
Now let me get this straight ...
NOT racking up a steady 5 BB per hour profit ...
Playing marginal hands ...
Seeing one card too many ... dare I use the sacreligious word "chasing" ?? ...
I have an important question:
Who are you, and what have you done with our friend Rounder?
Dick
Seems to me that there has been a rash of postings as of late from people living in the Pacific Northwest. Off the top of my head I can name about 6 or 8 folks from Vancouver, BC to Portland, OR that have contributed here in the last month. It makes me wonder about the feasibility of having a little 2+2 tournament or ring game, maybe something similar to what the LA folks have done recently. I for one know that I would enjoy putting some faces and names together and matching skills with those I respect from these discussions. I don't have any "ins" at local (Seattle area) cardrooms or casinos or else I would approach someone about setting something up.
Does anyone out there have any comments or suggestions on giving this a try? I am off to LV tonight but will check for replies on Monday.
Just curious.
KJS
I'm up for trying to work something out.
count me in
I will be in LA on Mon Tue and Wed. I plan to be splitting time between Commerce and Crystal Park, so if anyone would like to meet for dinner or drinks let me know.
Randy Refeld
Randy,
Make sure you get the anti LA virus shot before leaving for LA LA land.
:-)
I love playing in LA. When I go there I would swear that there are at least 6 people at the table that have never played before (except for the fact that I have played with them in the past). I live in Vegas and it amazes me what a difference driving a few hours makes; I almost don't play in Vegas anymore.
Randy
the weather's nice...
hi, im still on my trip and have made it to l.a. ill be at hp today for a while and will try to get to the commerce also. i did get to play some poker in san fran. area and thought the action was good and easy. i found a 10 20 40 no limit game and managed to win enough to last me for a while or two. the 80 160 game looked bad so i played 40 80 and they were good. i also played some 20 40 and that was great. i was at lucky chances. in bay 101 they only had 15 30 for their big game but i played and found it too good. nobody raises much and you get plenty of free draws. the smaller stakes games i saw were all very beatable. if any can find me say hello.
ray,
look me up on the floor (I work bottom in exile). plus student wants to meet you and she will be there in the afternoon.
gotta run
Rick
Ray -- I may not see you this trip. I'm holed up, busier than Paul Feeney deciphering QWSEDFRGHJKXCVGBHJKPOIUJHGFDXSSS!! Anyway, try to leave a little money in the California poker economy, eh?
Ray:
If you see Action Dan tell him I said hello.
Mason
I've been on a MONSTER heater since reading "Zen and the Art of Poker".
I've had three new employees here recently who all have been unable to operate a stapler.
The Agassi-Sampras fourth set tie-breaker in Australia can perhaps one day be equalled, but never topped, considering the players, circumstances, stakes, and history involved. No unforced errors, Sampras hits two second-serve aces, and Agassi wins it with three straight points following a Sampras running forehand winner that was so perfect it left Pete himself standing stunned; blankfaced and motionless.
Venus & Serena Williams combined will not win half as many Grand Slams as Steffi Graf.
Tiger Woods is above the above and beyond the beyond.
John Bonham is(was :( ) the greatest rock musician of all time.
I MAY (fingers double-helix crossed tourniquet tight) be bringing a "Student II" to this forum soon...:)
Bill did you miss your Lithiam dose today.
Now Now don't forget the meds man they keep you sane.
:-)
Forgot to mention:
Best thing the sad genius ever wrote(paraphrase): Hero has 3K 'roll, wins 17K, spends 10K on wine, women & song, loses 10K, is broke and everyone thinks he's a loser, but we're still talking about a 7K win.
Boy, what a sucker game that 2-10-20 on the end 7S hi-lo game at the Luxor must be; and they even go to 3-15-30 once a month??!!
Did you know that you can post images here? It would make hand descriptions easier to read if you had HPFAP-style pictures of the hole cards and board, rather than just text. For example: Only problem is I don't know where there's a full set of playing card images that we can use. Anyone have one handy?
I got a full deck. I forget where I got it but I could try to zip it up and send it to you.
CV
Cool idea.
Chris,
Please also e-mail me a zipped copy. Thanks a lot.
Dick
vvv
Only if you could make them bigger so they could see them from the next room would be helpful!!!
MisterMagoo!!!!!
Paul - in the HTML source, you can make the image any size you want. When we get this deal going, I will post exactly how.
Dick
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Izmet Fekali
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Posted on: Wednesday, 12 January 2000, at 4:40 p.m.
Posted by: DjTj (tjou@caltech.edu)
Posted on: Wednesday, 12 January 2000, at 8:08 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 12 January 2000, at 8:50 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 12 January 2000, at 8:39 a.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Wednesday, 12 January 2000, at 11:10 a.m.
Posted by: Goat
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 5:38 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 12:56 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 12 January 2000, at 12:32 p.m.
Posted by: ratso (ratso222@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 12 January 2000, at 12:55 p.m.
Posted by: Kevin L
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 2:39 a.m.
Posted by: ratso (ratso222@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 8:33 a.m.
ahmen
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 1:10 p.m.
Posted by: Kevin L
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 10:34 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Sprung
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 4:48 a.m.
Posted by: DjTj (tjou@caltech.edu)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 7:29 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 4:03 a.m.
Posted by: KOJEE KABUTO
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 1:42 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 2:20 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 2:40 p.m.
Posted by: Dunc Mills (custserv@parcom.ab.ca)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 3:11 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 8:27 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 9:02 p.m.
Posted by: Greg Raymer (FossilMan) (raymers@worldnet.att.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 10:38 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 3:43 p.m.
Posted by: Chico
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 11:30 p.m.
Posted by: Mike Blair (meblai@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 3:23 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 4:18 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 2:06 p.m.
Posted by: Randy (refeld@netzero.net)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 3:09 p.m.
Posted by: DjTj (tjou@caltech.edu)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 5:40 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 6:07 p.m.
Posted by: Chico
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 7:22 p.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 10:50 p.m.
Posted by: Student (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 5:53 a.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 4:44 p.m.
Posted by: Student
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 12:36 p.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 10:11 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 3:16 a.m.
Posted by: DjTj (tjou@caltech.edu)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 5:14 a.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 3:47 a.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 3:39 p.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 7:26 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 11:58 a.m.
Posted by: Thanks
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 6:19 p.m.
Posted by: Chris Alger (algerc@idt.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 10:09 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 11:52 p.m.
Posted by: Thanks
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 1:38 a.m.
Posted by: jas
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 10:39 a.m.
Posted by: Thanks (lojishen@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 2:46 p.m.
Posted by: jas
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 3:02 p.m.
Posted by: denver guy
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 4:38 p.m.
Posted by: Denver guy number 2
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 8:58 a.m.
Posted by: Denver Guy3
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 8:32 a.m.
Posted by: SaraOfMinn
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 6:37 p.m.
Posted by: Niels (antiveg@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 7:35 p.m.
Posted by: rich van ollefen (rich_van_ollefen@3com.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 9:39 a.m.
Posted by: Frank Brabec (thebrabec@msn.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 2:26 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 6:58 p.m.
Posted by: Hamster
Posted on: Thursday, 13 January 2000, at 10:01 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 12:06 a.m.
Posted by: Niels (antiveg@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 12:15 a.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 2:11 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 3:40 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 4:40 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 6:27 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 8:02 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 5:15 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 6:15 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 3:35 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 4:16 a.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 3:32 a.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 1:40 p.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 4:19 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 10:07 p.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 12:25 a.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 11:23 a.m.
Posted by: Jon Kitna
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 2:45 a.m.
Posted by: KJS (kscullin@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 2:56 p.m.
Posted by: Bill (blipcon@nccn.net)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 4:18 p.m.
Posted by: Big Slick
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 8:49 p.m.
Posted by: KJS (kscullin@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 4:20 p.m.
Posted by: Stewart L.
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 4:47 a.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 8:29 a.m.
Posted by: Greg Raymer (FossilMan) (raymers@worldnet.att.net)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 8:41 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 9:50 a.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 11:33 a.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 12:04 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 12:34 p.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 12:38 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 1:46 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 2:41 p.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 2:49 p.m.
Posted by: andy m (apoker1@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 9:03 p.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 3:44 a.m.
Posted by: Martin D
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 2:16 p.m.
Posted by: DjTj (tjou@caltech.edu)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 6:07 a.m.
Posted by: wpw
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 3:42 p.m.
Posted by: Niels (antiveg@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 4:15 p.m.
Posted by: Frank W
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 4:51 p.m.
Posted by: Danny D
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 1:24 a.m.
Posted by: Mike Blair (meblai@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 1:37 a.m.
Posted by: Randy E
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 2:55 a.m.
Posted by: Mike Blair (meblai@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 3:32 a.m.
Posted by: Randy E
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 10:20 a.m.
Posted by: Mike Blair (meblai@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 11:08 a.m.
Posted by: rjk
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 11:34 a.m.
Posted by: Allen H
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 12:44 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 11:33 a.m.
Posted by: Mike Blair (meblai@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 12:23 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 2:49 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 3:03 a.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 5:08 a.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 7:21 a.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 12:27 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 1:38 p.m.
Posted by: Mike Blair (meblai@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 2:05 p.m.
Posted by: Martin D
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 10:09 p.m.
Posted by: Mike Blair (meblai@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 5:08 p.m.
Posted by: andy m (apoker1@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 2:43 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 2:54 p.m.
Posted by: Allen H
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 6:04 p.m.
Posted by: Allen H
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 6:09 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 6:31 p.m.
Posted by: Maniac Mark (mlundqui@seas.upenn.edu)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 7:46 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 5:49 p.m.
Posted by: Maniac Mark (mlundqui@seas.upenn.edu)
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 6:22 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 6:26 p.m.
Posted by: Steve Morse
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 7:20 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 12:30 a.m.
Posted by: Steve Morse
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 5:09 a.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 11:17 a.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 2:23 a.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 7:54 a.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 12:33 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 7:07 p.m.
Posted by: Allen H
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 7:31 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 10:47 a.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Friday, 14 January 2000, at 5:51 p.m.
Posted by: Dave Racich
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 3:20 a.m.
Posted by: Diane from Green Bay (bierd@wglroup.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 9:53 p.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 10:55 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 5:38 a.m.
Posted by: Chuck (lbp8381@ksu.edu)
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 4:39 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Sprung
Posted on: Saturday, 15 January 2000, at 9:48 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 1:45 p.m.
Posted by: berya
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 9:13 a.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 5:28 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Sprung
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 8:36 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 10:28 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 2:31 p.m.
Posted by: Dave Waters (davewaters@rocketmail.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 2:38 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 3:01 p.m.
Posted by: DR. STORY TELLER
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 9:13 a.m.
Posted by: Dave Waters (davewaters@rocketmail.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 3:09 p.m.
Posted by: David Steele (dsteele@best.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 7:45 p.m.
Posted by: Diane from Green Bay (bierd@wglroup.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 16 January 2000, at 9:52 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 5:38 a.m.
Posted by: wildbill (wba712@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 3:29 a.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 2:13 a.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 4:54 p.m.
Posted by: Dunc Mills (custserv@parcom.ab.ca)
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 6:28 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Monday, 17 January 2000, at 6:38 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 5:36 a.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 5:41 a.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 12:22 p.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 1:53 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 5:41 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 1:08 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 1:24 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 1:47 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 1:59 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 2:11 p.m.
Posted by: Izmet Fekali (izmet@siol.net)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 2:26 p.m.
Izmet Fekali
Burek Experts Ltd.
Catering the World since 1389!
http://izmet.desetka.si
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 3:10 p.m.
Posted by: Izmet Fekali (izmet@siol.net)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 7:16 p.m.
Izmet Fekali
Burek Experts Ltd.
Catering the World since 1389!
http://izmet.desetka.si
Posted by: Jolly13
Posted on: Tuesday, 18 January 2000, at 8:29 p.m.
Posted by: Diane from Green Bay (bierd@wglroup.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 8:36 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 8:43 a.m.
Posted by: Diane from Green Bay (bierd@wglroup.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 5:22 p.m.
Posted by: Andrew Prock
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 12:20 a.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 12:36 a.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 2:14 p.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 2:29 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 7:33 a.m.
Posted by: Steve C.
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 1:50 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 8:07 a.m.
Posted by: David Steele (dsteele@best.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 10:18 a.m.
Posted by: Dick in Phoenix (Dick@annabelles-treasures.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 11:04 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 12:08 p.m.
Posted by: Earl (brikshoe@iquest.net)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Posted by: ronzoni
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 4:35 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 9:25 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 4:37 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 5:53 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 5:58 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 9:21 p.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 1:59 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 12:25 a.m.
Posted by: DocMartin (Docmartin132@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 19 January 2000, at 9:42 p.m.
Posted by: Earl (brikshoe@iquest.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 7:11 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 8:34 a.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 1:25 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 9:49 a.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 11:58 a.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 3:31 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 4:25 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 5:37 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 6:26 p.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 11:10 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 11:19 a.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 12:05 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 9:47 a.m.
Posted by: David Steele (dsteele@best.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 10:16 a.m.
Posted by: Walleye (Walleye675@Aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 11:51 a.m.
Posted by: Earl (brikshoe@iquest.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 12:22 p.m.
Posted by: Don Martin
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 9:04 p.m.
Posted by: KOJEE KABUTO
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 1:39 p.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 1:50 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 2:35 p.m.
Posted by: Barry B
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 9:21 p.m.
Posted by: Kevin R.
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 8:05 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 8:18 a.m.
Posted by: Barry B
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 8:55 a.m.
Posted by: KOJEE KABUTO
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 2:46 p.m.
Posted by: Oscar (Bonavena@aol.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 9:37 p.m.
Posted by: berya
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 2:07 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 12:46 a.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 6:51 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 7:22 p.m.
Posted by: skp (spadmanabahn@ladner-downs.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 8:16 p.m.
Posted by: dsm
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 9:11 p.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 11:18 p.m.
Posted by: Bill (BillE757@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 11:59 a.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 12:37 a.m.
Posted by: Ratso
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 9:35 p.m.
Posted by: kevin concannon (concannon2001@YAHOO.COM)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 12:20 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 12:42 p.m.
Posted by: Tony D
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 1:01 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 2:37 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 4:50 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Rubenstein (drubenst@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 5:48 p.m.
Posted by: Dick in Phoenix (Dick@annabelles-treasures.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 4:59 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 6:52 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 7:18 a.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 8:00 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 10:16 p.m.
Posted by: BillM
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 10:59 p.m.
Posted by: BillM
Posted on: Thursday, 20 January 2000, at 11:01 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 12:11 a.m.
Posted by: BillM
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 1:04 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 2:21 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 12:32 a.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
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Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 6:36 p.m.
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Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 6:10 p.m.
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Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 9:05 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 10:27 p.m.
Posted by: Bill G. (greenwb@ufl.edu)
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Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 12:26 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 4:17 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 8:24 p.m.
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Posted on: Friday, 21 January 2000, at 5:13 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 4:39 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 9:58 a.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
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Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 9:35 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 10:40 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 12:29 a.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 4:19 a.m.
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Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 8:32 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
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Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 5:00 a.m.
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Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 10:19 a.m.
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Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 10:40 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 10:54 a.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 9:45 p.m.
Posted by: ronzoni
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 5:54 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 8:26 a.m.
Posted by: Richard L.
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 7:05 p.m.
Posted by: No Limit Dude
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 2:40 p.m.
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Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 2:45 p.m.
Posted by: Randy (refeld@netzero.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 3:27 p.m.
Posted by: Jesse Jam
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 4:29 p.m.
Posted by: Randy (refeld@netzero.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 8:43 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 5:33 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 6:08 p.m.
Posted by: David Steele (dsteele@best.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 8:10 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 8:12 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 10:41 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Saturday, 22 January 2000, at 11:41 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 12:36 a.m.
Posted by: Izmet Fekali (izmet@siol.net)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 8:06 a.m.
Izmet Fekali
Burek Experts Ltd.
Catering the World since 1389!
http://izmet.desetka.si
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 10:21 a.m.
Posted by: John Tyler
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 12:25 a.m.
Posted by: Tom Haley (CodeSavvy@acm.org)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 7:43 a.m.
Posted by: Tom Haley (CodeSavvy@acm.org)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 9:49 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 1:10 p.m.
Posted by: Oscar (Bonavena@aol.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 2:53 p.m.
Posted by: Diane from Green Bay (bierd@wglroup.com)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 12:50 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 7:59 a.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 2:09 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 3:55 p.m.
Posted by: Dunc Mills (custserv@parcom.ab.ca)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 5:14 p.m.
Posted by: Randy (refeld@netzero.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 23 January 2000, at 8:41 p.m.
Posted by: Diane from Green Bay (bierd@wglroup.com)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 12:56 a.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 2:17 a.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 6:13 a.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 12:10 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 12:12 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 5:25 p.m.
Posted by: LAMentary
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 6:20 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 9:46 a.m.
Posted by: shooter
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 10:32 a.m.
Posted by: Dice
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 4:00 p.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 6:09 p.m.
Posted by: mashie (mashie@my-deja.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 4:30 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 7:32 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 9:31 a.m.
Posted by: Telephon'
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 12:11 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 1:27 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Monday, 24 January 2000, at 12:56 p.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 2:37 p.m.
Posted by: Mason Malmuth (MasonMalmuth@TwoPlusTwo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 2:51 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 3:20 p.m.
Posted by: psychology grad student
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 4:15 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 6:37 p.m.
Posted by: psych grad student
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 1:07 a.m.
Posted by: A Bum
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 4:33 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 6:44 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 8:10 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 8:51 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 9:15 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 2:36 a.m.
Posted by: ratso (ratso222@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 9:22 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 9:47 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 11:25 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 11:35 p.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 5:58 p.m.
Posted by: ratso (ratso222@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 11:54 a.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 8:05 p.m.
Posted by: Andy Ward
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 5:12 a.m.
Posted by: Walleye (Walleye675@Aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 4:59 p.m.
Posted by: MJChicago (m7h1j5@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 5:34 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 9:50 p.m.
Posted by: goog (elgoogo@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 6:32 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 7:23 p.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 11:46 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 6:27 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 8:31 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 9:05 p.m.
Posted by: ratso (ratso222@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 25 January 2000, at 9:20 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 1:23 a.m.
Posted by: Abdul Jalib (AbdulJ@PosEV.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 6:15 a.m.
Posted by: Pete B
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 1:29 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 2:29 a.m.
Posted by: goog (elgoogo@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 6:21 p.m.
Posted by: james H. (hansen@its.caltech.edu)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 8:52 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 1:49 a.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 10:02 p.m.
Posted by: Chico
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 2:16 a.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 8:13 a.m.
Posted by: goog (elgoogo@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 6:37 p.m.
Posted by: Niels (antiveg@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 11:02 p.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 11:21 a.m.
Posted by: james H. (hansen@its.caltech.edu)
Posted on: Wednesday, 26 January 2000, at 9:07 p.m.
Posted by: Andy Ward
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 5:14 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 10:09 a.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 3:30 p.m.
Posted by: Ron H
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 7:51 a.m.
Posted by: John Wren
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 8:28 a.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 1:17 p.m.
Posted by: Ron H
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 5:11 p.m.
Posted by: Pete B
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 7:22 p.m.
Posted by: Martin D
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 6:18 a.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 10:24 a.m.
Posted by: Lady Gambler
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 5:04 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 5:56 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 1:54 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 4:32 p.m.
Posted by: KOJEE KABUTO
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 5:48 p.m.
Posted by: Martin D
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 7:02 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Thursday, 27 January 2000, at 5:40 p.m.
Posted by: Jon (JIngrisano@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 5:50 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 5:57 p.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 6:21 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 9:04 p.m.
Posted by: Chin Music
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 10:48 p.m.
Posted by: Nick Christenson (npc@jetcafe.org)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 8:01 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 28 January 2000, at 11:29 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 2:25 a.m.
Posted by: Bob (chsbob@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 10:55 a.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 2:28 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 9:16 a.m.
Posted by: Andy Ward
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 12:39 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 2:49 p.m.
Posted by: David Sklansky (Dsklansky@aol.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 11:57 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 1:10 a.m.
Posted by: Andy Ward
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 5:14 a.m.
Posted by: Jason (quattro@aol.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 9:34 a.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 2:24 a.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 3:35 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 9:27 a.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 11:08 a.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 12:02 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Monday, 31 January 2000, at 1:19 p.m.
Posted by: thf2
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 3:56 a.m.
Posted by: Randy (refeld@netzero.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 7:24 a.m.
Posted by: David Steele (dsteele@best.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 1:47 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Z.
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 1:30 p.m.
Posted by: Geezer in the Making
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 5:25 p.m.
Posted by: Grandpa Moses
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 6:09 p.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 1:54 a.m.
Posted by: Geezer in the Making
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 5:38 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder - Feeling older these days.
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 9:04 a.m.
Posted by: Cliff
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 7:27 p.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Saturday, 29 January 2000, at 9:43 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 2:14 p.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 2:20 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Sunday, 30 January 2000, at 6:12 p.m.
Posted by: Cisco
Posted on: Monday, 31 January 2000, at 1:32 a.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 7:28 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 7:31 p.m.
Posted by: Anthony
Posted on: Monday, 31 January 2000, at 3:11 a.m.
Posted by: wildbill (wba712@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Monday, 31 January 2000, at 3:27 a.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Monday, 31 January 2000, at 3:39 p.m.
Posted by: ram
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 1:54 p.m.
Posted by: Dunc Mills (custserv@parcom.ab.ca)
Posted on: Monday, 31 January 2000, at 3:08 p.m.
Posted by: james H. (hansen@its.caltech.edu)
Posted on: Monday, 31 January 2000, at 7:00 p.m.
Posted by: Jim Geary (jaygee@primenet.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 10:03 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 10:34 a.m.
Posted by: Jim Geary (jaygee@primenet.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 5:37 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 10:45 a.m.
Posted by: Kim T (tkimt@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 10:54 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 11:57 a.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 12:18 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 3:38 p.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 5:43 p.m.
Posted by: ratso (ratso222@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 1 February 2000, at 7:56 p.m.
Posted by: mah (maheide@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 4:06 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 8:49 a.m.
Posted by: mah (maheide@comdisco.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 1:20 a.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 9:37 a.m.
Posted by: mah (maheide@comdisco.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 1:25 a.m.
Posted by: Diane from Green Bay (bierd@wglroup.com)
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 1:48 p.m.
Posted by: mah (maheide@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 3:01 a.m.
Posted by: Diane from Green Bay (bierd@wglroup.com)
Posted on: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 6:12 a.m.
Posted by: mah (maheide@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 2:13 a.m.
Posted by: Pat P
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 5:39 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 8:32 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 8:36 a.m.
Posted by: Martin D
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 5:08 p.m.
Posted by: x
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 1:57 p.m.
Posted by: ronzoni
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 3:16 p.m.
Posted by: Randy (refeld@netzero.net)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 3:34 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 5:58 p.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 6:18 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 6:36 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 8:27 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:44 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 6:42 a.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 11:30 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:18 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:19 p.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:40 p.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:36 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:59 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 3:14 p.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 11:23 a.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 9:57 p.m.
Posted by: royce algiers
Posted on: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 1:53 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 6:52 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 7:24 p.m.
Posted by: KOJEE KABUTO
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 1:56 p.m.
Posted by: Bret Murphy (murphybret@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 4:49 p.m.
Posted by: Badger
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 5:55 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 11:43 p.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 10:00 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 11:17 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 2 February 2000, at 11:28 p.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 4:30 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 7:17 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 2:15 a.m.
Posted by: Vince Lepore (leporeva@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 4:34 p.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 10:17 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 8:29 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 8:35 a.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 10:26 p.m.
Posted by: ray springfield
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 9:20 a.m.
Posted by: Tom Haley (CodeSavvy@acm.org)
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 12:51 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 8:58 a.m.
Posted by: John Wren
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 11:21 a.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 9:02 p.m.
Posted by: John Wren
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 8:53 a.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 9:10 a.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 9:55 p.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 9:49 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 7:44 a.m.
Posted by: KOJEE KABUTO
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 1:48 p.m.
Posted by: MJChicago (m7h1j5@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 4:32 p.m.
Posted by: Holybull (holybull2@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 9:37 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 9:50 a.m.
Posted by: sabu
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:04 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder (guzaldo@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 7:19 a.m.
Posted by: sabu
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 5:10 p.m.
Posted by: Jon (JIngrisano@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:25 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:33 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 3:22 p.m.
Posted by: KJS (kscullin@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 12:56 p.m.
Posted by: KOJEE KABUTO
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 1:22 p.m.
Posted by: berya
Posted on: Thursday, 3 February 2000, at 2:10 p.m.
Posted by: Martin D
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 4:20 a.m.
Posted by: Michael 7
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 2:32 p.m.
Posted by: KJS (kscullin@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 6:10 p.m.
Posted by: Wrong Forum Man
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 3:10 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 4:23 p.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Friday, 4 February 2000, at 5:25 p.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 12:31 p.m.
Posted by: Wrong Forum Man
Posted on: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 4:40 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 5:07 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Posted by: Student
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 10:58 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 12:59 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 1:22 p.m.
Posted by: KOJEE KABUTO
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 1:50 p.m.
Posted by: 3 Bet Brett (fourflushr@aol.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 2:18 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 3:07 p.m.
Posted by: Student
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 11:04 p.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 5:46 a.m.
Posted by: SammyB (peachdad@aol.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 11:59 p.m.
Posted by: Grandpa
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 12:18 a.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 5:38 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 2:00 p.m.
Posted by: George Lind
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 2:47 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 4:34 p.m.
Posted by: Scott Horton
Posted on: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 12:36 a.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 3:38 a.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 11:08 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 8:26 a.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 11:13 a.m.
Posted by: Mike Blair (meblai@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 9:23 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 4:33 p.m.
Posted by: Bob (chsbob@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 6 February 2000, at 6:07 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 12:04 a.m.
Posted by: Big John (jhartz@jps.net)
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 1:56 a.m.
Posted by: mah (maheide@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 4:15 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 6:12 a.m.
Posted by: ratso
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 8:23 a.m.
Posted by: mah (maheide@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 2:01 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 10:16 a.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 6:58 a.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 12:56 p.m.
Posted by: Abdul Jalib (AbdulJ@PosEV.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 10:09 p.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 11:57 p.m.
Posted by: John Cole (jcole5044@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 10:51 a.m.
Posted by: zappo (hop222@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 10:20 p.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 3:57 p.m.
Posted by: Bill (blipcon@nccn.net)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 10:20 p.m.
Posted by: Dick in Phoenix (Dick@annabelles-treasures.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 11:45 a.m.
Posted by: Andy Ward
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 11:52 a.m.
Posted by: MJChicago (m7h1j5@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 11:58 a.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 2:55 a.m.
Posted by: Andy Ward
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 8:41 a.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 3:16 a.m.
Posted by: Andy Ward
Posted on: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 4:51 a.m.
Posted by: Dick in Phoenix (Dick@annabelles-treasures.com)
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 1:15 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Hanson (danhanson@home.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 17 February 2000, at 4:41 a.m.
Posted by: Andy Ward
Posted on: Thursday, 17 February 2000, at 6:29 a.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 12:18 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 5:33 p.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 5:46 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:04 a.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:21 a.m.
Posted by: Bill (blipcon@nccn.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:46 a.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 2:55 p.m.
Posted by: Greg Raymer (FossilMan) (raymers@worldnet.att.net)
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 11:19 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:47 p.m.
Posted by: KJS (kscullin@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 7:13 p.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 8:03 p.m.
Posted by: KJS (kscullin@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 7:19 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 8:26 p.m.
Posted by: Bill (blipcon@nccn.net)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 11:32 p.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:23 a.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:28 a.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 2:56 p.m.
Posted by: ronzoni
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 12:36 p.m.
Posted by: Mason Malmuth (MasonMalmuth@TwoPlusTwo.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 2:16 p.m.
Posted by: Oscar (Bonavena@aol.com)
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 10:44 p.m.
Posted by: BillM
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 11:14 p.m.
Posted by: Dan Z.
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 5:15 p.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 12:00 a.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 3:42 p.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:05 a.m.
Posted by: Bill C.
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:51 a.m.
Posted by: Wrong Forum Man
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 11:39 a.m.
Posted by: brad (bradley_abc@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:13 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 9:39 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder (guzaldo@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 9:40 a.m.
Posted by: Dick in Phoenix (Dick@annabelles-treasures.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 3:45 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder (guzaldo@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 4:29 p.m.
Posted by: Niels (antiveg@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 4:43 p.m.
Posted by: AlexB
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 4:53 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 5:02 p.m.
Posted by: dexman (bneal@globaltv.ca)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 2:03 p.m.
Posted by: Lost on 2+2
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 4:35 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder (guzaldo@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 4:39 p.m.
Posted by: MJChicago (m7h1j5@aol.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 4:44 p.m.
Posted by: scott (sms134@columbia.edu)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 10:27 p.m.
Posted by: Shooter
Posted on: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:26 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder (guzaldo@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 7:23 a.m.
Posted by: Rounder (guzaldo@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 5:06 p.m.
Posted by: Dick in Phoenix (Dick@annabelles-treasures.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 6:25 p.m.
Posted by: KJS (kscullin@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 6:35 p.m.
Posted by: ATWOOD
Posted on: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 2:40 a.m.
Posted by: Tim (tdelaney@cascadesa.org)
Posted on: Tuesday, 15 February 2000, at 2:44 p.m.
Posted by: Randy (refeld@netzero.net)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:18 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder (guzaldo@yahoo.com)
Posted on: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 10:13 p.m.
Posted by: Randy (refeld@netzero.net)
Posted on: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 12:26 a.m.
Posted by: John
Posted on: Friday, 10 March 2000, at 5:41 p.m.
Posted by: Ray Zee
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 11:41 a.m.
Posted by: Rick Nebiolo (ricknebiolo@earthlink.net)
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 12:57 p.m.
Posted by: John Feeney (johnfeeney@home.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 9:47 p.m.
Posted by: Mason Malmuth (MasonMalmuth@TwoPlusTwo.com)
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 11:33 p.m.
Posted by: BillM
Posted on: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 10:19 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 7:34 a.m.
Posted by: BillM
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 11:34 a.m.
Posted by: Red (red22@hotmail.com)
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 1:43 p.m.
In the big blind I had 
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 1:53 p.m.
Posted by: mashie (mashie@my-deja.com)
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 2:06 p.m.
Chris, can you send me a copy too?
Thanks, mashie
Posted by: Dick in Phoenix (Dick@annabelles-treasures.com)
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 3:01 p.m.
Posted by: Chris Villalobos (zardoz@micron.net)
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 3:15 p.m.
Posted by: Paul Feeney (Feen9876@aol.com)
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 2:35 p.m.
Posted by: Dick in Phoenix (Dick@annabelles-treasures.com)
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 2:53 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 4:47 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder
Posted on: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 6:47 p.m.
Posted by: Rounder